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Geesuv
2007-05-11, 01:44 PM
Theres been a lot of talk with some friends of mine about getting some kind of superhero game going on. The only problem is I have little knowledge of any super games on the market.
I was wondering if people could suggest any superhero RPGs and what pros and cons are involved.

Thanks :smallsmile:

Runeclaw
2007-05-11, 01:48 PM
Mutants and Masterminds is probably your best bet.

There's a couple of threads on these boards that discuss it in some detail.

It requires some close GM superivion to keep stuff from getting out-of-hand, but it can be used to represent pretty much any superhero style.

rollfrenzy
2007-05-11, 01:49 PM
Check out Silver Age Sentinals.

I really like the balance between complex and playable. It has a whole crap-load of Powers and you add the flavor. It has a D20 version which I have never played, but I really liked the non-OGL version. It does take a while for chracter creation though (although I think that is universal when talking about Superhero games).

Twilight Jack
2007-05-11, 01:56 PM
Add another vote here for Mutants and Masterminds. Easily the best, most playable supers-system I've ever seen. You really can create just about any power or super you could dream up. Just watch the power levels, because its very flexibility means that a GM must keep a close eye on the proceedings to prevent power bloat.

Piccamo
2007-05-11, 01:59 PM
Mutants and Masterminds is probably your best bet.

There's a couple of threads on these boards that discuss it in some detail.

It requires some close GM superivion to keep stuff from getting out-of-hand, but it can be used to represent pretty much any superhero style.

Add another vote for M&M. Its not as complex as DnD and is very fun. Great balance in the powers and a good way to keep levels approximately equal, while allowing variations in individual characters. No two characters need to be similar in most ways.

Rob Knotts
2007-05-11, 02:33 PM
I'd go for M&M as well. I bought Silver Age Sentinels because it's based on another simple system I liked, BESM, but SAS turned out to be pretty sloppy in balancing power costs - M&M seems a lot better play-tested and balanced. M&M is a d20 game, but it only keeps the bare minimum necessary to work under d20, going so far as dropping classes entirely and eliminating the need for any die other than a d20 (the damage value of attacks are difficulties against which players make saving roles, with the result determining how much damage gets through).

rollfrenzy
2007-05-11, 03:10 PM
Well, I guess I am out-voted. I have not played M&M, as I am allergic to d20, other than the D&D game I have to play in because my group refuse to play anything else. You have piqued my interest though, I am gonna have to check out M&M, although I do like SAS.

erewhon
2007-05-11, 04:40 PM
Theres been a lot of talk with some friends of mine about getting some kind of superhero game going on. The only problem is I have little knowledge of any super games on the market.
I was wondering if people could suggest any superhero RPGs and what pros and cons are involved.

Thanks :smallsmile:



M&M???

No, no, no.

Champions.

One of the oldest and definately the best superhero game out there. I have yet to see any power you can imagine that cannot be built using the rules, the mechanics (The Hero System) are fairly clear and unobtrusive, and there are enough combat options that you can game out practically anything.

(I ran a fight once that took place in a large chunk of a building that was plunging to the street below. Zero G, falling damage, topsy-turvy, you name it.)

The only drawback is that the learning curve is pretty steep and you MUST follow the recommended power vs defense guidelines until you absolutely know what you're doing, it's pretty easy to get unbalanced.

It also scales up in power more readily than it scales down, for example, Spiderman 3? That's about perfect. :)

Caelestion
2007-05-11, 05:00 PM
Doesn't Heroes have the system of fractional character points? After all, that was why GURPS 4e dropped the half-point to simplify things, but Heroes is even worse in that regard.

Twilight Jack
2007-05-11, 05:07 PM
Champions rocks, but it's a tad crunchier than M&M and I wouldn't recommend it unless you prefer rules precision to user-friendliness. M&M's powers and builds are just as customizable, flavor-wise, and the system is much easier to learn than Champions.

On the other hand, Champions is the supers game that I cut my teeth on, so I'm very fond. I just think M&M is better to pick up and play, which is a huge concern with supers, as far as I'm concerned.

Also, M&Ms mechanics actually really feel like a comic book. When GMing for it, I actually found myself able to describe fight scenes panel-by-panel, and the rules supported my doing it.

Rob Knotts
2007-05-11, 05:30 PM
Champions rocks, but it's a tad crunchier than M&M...
That's like saying concrete is a tad crunchier than an Oreo cookie:smallbiggrin:

I've been a fan of Champions/Hero for years, but I've sworn off of it for superhero gaming. The elaborate combat system and the algebraic power creation really ruin the mood for "gee whiz" four-colour adventuring. I'm currently looking into using Hero for more specific genres like sword & sorcery. epic fantasy, and cyberpunk, but having run quite a few Champions games for the Hero system, I now much prefer a more open, freestyle system that can allow for more improvisation than Hero usually allows.

Twilight Jack
2007-05-11, 05:32 PM
That's like saying concrete is a tad crunchier than an Oreo cookie:smallbiggrin:

I've been a fan of Champions/Hero for years, but I've sworn off of it for superhero gaming. The elaborate combat system and the algebraic power creation really ruin the mood for "gee whiz" four-colour adventuring. I'm currently looking into using Hero for more specific genres like sword & sorcery. epic fantasy, and cyberpunk, but having run quite a few Champions games for the Hero system, I now much prefer a more open, freestyle system that can allow for more improvisation than Hero usually allows.

Okay, so I've a gift for understatement. I love Champions, so I didn't want to come off as denigrating it. M&M really does do supers better, though, in my opinion.

Caelestion
2007-05-11, 05:35 PM
Crunchy rules is our group's main barrier to playing a GURPS Freelancer or GURPS Master of Orion II game. Having to point everything does rather puit us off, no matter how cool it would actually be.

Dausuul
2007-05-11, 09:06 PM
Crunchy rules is our group's main barrier to playing a GURPS Freelancer or GURPS Master of Orion II game. Having to point everything does rather puit us off, no matter how cool it would actually be.

GURPS Master of Orion II? What might this be? I know what GURPS is, and I know what Master of Orion II is, and I've played and enjoyed them both, but I hadn't heard somebody had combined them...

To the original poster, I recommend the setting--but not the mechanics!--of White Wolf's Aberrant game. It's a superhero setting, but with a lot more depth and complexity than just "good guys" and "bad guys." Factions range from Project Utopia, which is as goody-two-shoes (and too-good-to-be-true) as it sounds, to Elites, who are superpowered mercenaries, to the superhero-supremacist Teragen, to the renegade Utopian splinter group calling itself the Aberrants and vowing to uncover the evil behind Utopia's shining facade... well, you get the picture.

Sadly, as with so many White Wolf games, the mechanics are slipshod at best and preposterous at worst, and game balance is a joke. Be prepared to house-rule heavily, or take the Aberrant setting and graft it onto some other rule set (this Mutants and Masterminds thing sounds interesting, and I will have to have a look at it).

(There is also an Aberrant d20 out there. I was not impressed with it, but YMMV.)

Geesuv
2007-05-12, 05:24 AM
Thanks for all the replys, its given us a lot of options to consider.
M&M sounds interesting, but I have to ask, how "d20" is it?
A couple of my friends have already said they don't want to use d20. They find its too... crunchy and solid for the game they are looking for. They'd prefer a more loose system.
What features does d20 and M&M have in common?

Dan_Hemmens
2007-05-12, 05:32 AM
Try GODLIKE or its modern follow-up Wild Talents.

It's a sorta heroes-like "everybody gets one power, but other than that, they're normal" schtick. Godlike is also set in World War Two.

InaVegt
2007-05-12, 05:36 AM
Thanks for all the replys, its given us a lot of options to consider.
M&M sounds interesting, but I have to ask, how "d20" is it?
A couple of my friends have already said they don't want to use d20. They find its too... crunchy and solid for the game they are looking for. They'd prefer a more loose system.
What features do d20 and M&M have in common?

The saves, the abilities, the skills, the use of a d20 and something resembling feats. M&M is much more rules light and requires less book keeping than normal d20, it's also a point based system in stead of a class based system.

Rob Knotts
2007-05-12, 11:31 AM
And even if the core system for M&M loose enough, it uses Hero Points. Among other things, you can use these points to temporarily use feats. And since Alternate Power is a feat, this basically means you can customize powers on the fly as long as you've got one or two hero points on hand.

Alternate Power works like this:
Say you have a power called "Skyfall", and you've spend 20 points for the primary power, an attack that involved throwing meteors. For each additional 2pt AP feat you buy for Skyfall, you choose any other type of power that you can describe as being related to a meteor shower. By adding alternate powers you're making Skyfall into a "power array".

You can only use one of those powers at a time*, but every power bought this way gets the full benefit of the 20 points you spent on the primary power. And with Hero Points, you can add additional powers to the array whenever you need to.

*For those of you familiar with Hero/Champions, this operates just like an Ultra Multipower, and Power Arrays can be modified to work in ways similar to VPPs as well

Ravyn
2007-05-12, 09:11 PM
Original Aberrant can be convinced to work, but it's a rather touchy system when not carefully watched for balance. By the same token, though, the fluff is interesting and the concept is sound, and there are a couple mechanics that I conceptually enjoy--like superhuman manipulation granting a resistance to such things when it hits certain levels because you know the tricks. *grins* It can be run as a one-book system (good luck finding the book), is Most Definitely Not d20, and has one of the most interesting takes on power having its price that I've seen. Just be very careful with what interpretations of powers you permit--someone with a high score in Magnetic Mastery and a strong feel for the laws of physics is a thing to be feared, and any warper who opens gates as holes in the ground rather than the air.... (Yes, I know from personal experience. I was always the weak member of my groups.) And the rules are straightforward and flexible.

Attilargh
2007-05-13, 04:03 AM
Check out Alan Moore's Watchmen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watchmen). Then pick up World of Darkness.

No, your characters won't be very super, or even heroic, but they get to dress up and beat up criminals.

Citizen Joe
2007-05-13, 07:26 AM
M&M???

Champions.



Oh dear gods no... there is a HUGE time dilation between how long a round is in game and how long it takes to play out. I was playing at a convention and I made the mistake of not having some sort of super fast flight ability. Some sort of fight was happening on the roof of a tall building. Most of the group rushed up there with flight with multiple actions and gobs of dice. Meanwhile, I heroically pressed the elevator button. I promptly spent three hours real time waiting for the elevator to arrive while the rest of the group battled it out on the roof.

It was mildly amusing. Lots of dice being thrown as players got all excited about an attack succeeding only to have it countered... then my turn would roll around and my character would look at his watch and tap his foot impatiently.