Jedi Class

[intregus]

Hello!

I need some help with my jedi class. I'm attempting to create the Star Wars setting with 5e rules. I think the jedi class I have right now might be a little too powerful, so some different eyes would be very helpful to balance it out.

I also need help coming up with a force power list using the spells (obviously)

anyway Please let me know what you think and help me out if you can!

https://docs.google.com/document/d/16x3Ws_cFxnfsyrtKOy_A3Isy0O8j_xEKv6o4VNc7USM/edit?usp=sharing


UPDATED 2-13-16
Checkout the update based on the mystic!

[ImSAMazing]

This is just the Monk class but better.

[intregus]

Well the Jedi Class doesn’t have
martial arts
unarmored movement
stunning strike
flurry of blows
ki empowered strikes
purity of body
tongue of the sun and moon
diamond soul (though it is a subclass feature of the consular)
timeless body
empty body
perfect self

And I placed a force point cost to use block/deflect, slow fall and stillness of mind.

so it isn't just the monk class although I did use the monk class ass a "shell"

And here is what I have for lightsabers
Lightsaber
Lightsaber 2d8 finess, versatile (1d10)
Shoto 2d6 light, finess
Dualphase 2d8 finess, versatile(1d10)
Light whip 2d4 light, finess, reach
Great 2d10 heavy, two-handed

lightsabers ignores resistances to everything except energy. They emit bright light out to 10 ft and dim light out to 20 ft.

Dualphase lightsabers are identical to regular lightsabers only as a bonus action they can be turned into a reach weapon with the two-handed property and lose the finess property..

[Amnoriath]

The problem is you are hiding behind the fact you are only at best half done. You have given the precedence of giving them proficiency in 2 really good saves, having spells recharged by a short rest, and having sub-classes that get features of others much earlier. As such you are giving out a strong vibe that it will be a better a Monk when it is already a good class.

[Amnoriath]

And here is what I have for lightsabers
Lightsaber
Lightsaber 2d8 finess, versatile (1d10)
Shoto 2d6 light, finess
Dualphase 2d8 finess, versatile(1d10)
Light whip 2d4 light, finess, reach
Great 2d10 heavy, two-handed

lightsabers ignores resistances to everything except energy. They emit bright light out to 10 ft and dim light out to 20 ft.

Dualphase lightsabers are identical to regular lightsabers only as a bonus action they can be turned into a reach weapon with the two-handed property and lose the finess property..
I am assuming there are typos here. Either the 2's or the 1's in which they are overpowered. In a way they already maybe are since they have an untyped energy damage.

[intregus]

The problem is you are hiding behind the fact you are only at best half done. You have given the precedence of giving them proficiency in 2 really good saves, having spells recharged by a short rest, and having sub-classes that get features of others much earlier. As such you are giving out a strong vibe that it will be a better a Monk when it is already a good class.

Well I'm not "hiding" behind anything, i'm genuinely looking for help on how to change it, I already KNOW that it isn't balanced. But i do find it hard to swallow that it's THAT much better. I mean think about what makes the monk so good. flurry of blows, martial arts, stunning strike, and the movement. and instead they got force powers that recharge on a short rest.

I didn't give it 2 good saves I literally used the monk as a shell so they got the same saves....

I'm using the rules from the DMG for blasters that deal 3D8's as well ass the saga edition books for weapon damages so the lightsabers were 2d instead of 1. If someone was to play those in a straight 5e dnd game they would be over powered for sure but seeing as how most people will be using blasters doing 3d8 giving them a 2d8 weapon I don't think is too bad.

The damage types in SW are different then in 5e and energy is the damage type lightsabers and blasters use the other ones are

Acid
Bludgeoning
Cold
Fire
Force
Ion
Piercing
Poison
Slashing
Sonic
Stun
Psychic


As for the subclass's I can re look at those. But which subclass features in particular are too early for them to have that'll break them? My guess is that you're referring to the darkside path's level 11 ability, which I'm totally ok with getting rid of for something else.

[Amnoriath]

Well I'm not "hiding" behind anything, i'm genuinely looking for help on how to change it, I already KNOW that it isn't balanced. But i do find it hard to swallow that it's THAT much better. I mean think about what makes the monk so good. flurry of blows, martial arts, stunning strike, and the movement. and instead they got force powers that recharge on a short rest.

I didn't give it 2 good saves I literally used the monk as a shell so they got the same saves....

I'm using the rules from the DMG for blasters that deal 3D8's as well ass the saga edition books for weapon damages so the lightsabers were 2d instead of 1. If someone was to play those in a straight 5e dnd game they would be over powered for sure but seeing as how most people will be using blasters doing 3d8 giving them a 2d8 weapon I don't think is too bad.

The damage types in SW are different then in 5e and energy is the damage type lightsabers and blasters use the other ones are

Acid
Bludgeoning
Cold
Fire
Force
Ion
Piercing
Poison
Slashing
Sonic
Stun
Psychic


As for the subclass's I can re look at those. But which subclass features in particular are too early for them to have that'll break them? My guess is that you're referring to the darkside path's level 11 ability, which I'm totally ok with getting rid of for something else.

1. Even if it isn't your intention the only reason you can claim it doesn't have those amazing powers is because your class has nothing to compare it to in the high levels nor do you have them mechanically detailed since it is that unfinished. But you see people know what these powers are and this has 20 powers known when 5 could very well be cantrip like. As such it has that huge potential especially if you are just porting over martial classes.
2. Wrong, a Monk's base saves are Strength and Dexterity the developers were very careful in detailing one good and one secondary.
3. So why are you giving it another damage type when it is intentionally so nebulous? Why not just force?

[intregus]

1. Even if it isn't your intention the only reason you can claim it doesn't have those amazing powers is because your class has nothing to compare it to in the high levels nor do you have them mechanically detailed since it is that unfinished. But you see people know what these powers are and this has 20 powers known when 5 could very well be cantrip like. As such it has that huge potential especially if you are just porting over martial classes.
2. Wrong, a Monk's base saves are Strength and Dexterity the developers were very careful in detailing one good and one secondary.
3. So why are you giving it another damage type when it is intentionally so nebulous? Why not just force?

1. So what would you suggest for cantrips known? As for powers known what if i change it to to ranger progression so the most powers they can know is 11 plus the cantrips. The only part of the class that would be unfinished is specifically force powers.
2. you're totally right I forgot I changed it.
3. Sorry I don't understand the question. what type of damage would you give blasters from Star Wars? Because the lightsaber deals the same kind of damage as a blaster. I figured it would be called just energy.

Any other thoughts on the sub-classes or was the main point of contention the darkside path?

For the classes available in the SW setting I was going to have
barbarian
fighter
rogue
monk
jedi
spell less ranger of some sort called the scout-nothing fleshed out yet though.
a class that's like the noble from saga edition. This is what the class is detailed as from the book
"Members of the noble class use their intelligence and natural charisma
to make their way in the galaxy. From true royalty to elected
officials, military commanders to crime lords, traders, merchants,
ambassadors, holovid stars, and influential corporate magnates,
character types who appear in the noble class are varied and numerous.
Some bring honor to the name. Others are sly, treacherous, and
dishonorable to the core. With a winning smile, a golden tongue, a
powerful message, or a knack for making compromises, the noble
commands respect, makes friends, and inevitably influences
people."

SO i ave thoughts for this class but nothing fleshed out yet.

[JNAProductions]

I'd make it radiant damage or force damage. No need to clutter up the game with needless extra damage types.

[Amnoriath]

1. So what would you suggest for cantrips known? As for powers known what if i change it to to ranger progression so the most powers they can know is 11 plus the cantrips. The only part of the class that would be unfinished is specifically force powers.
2. you're totally right I forgot I changed it.
3. Sorry I don't understand the question. what type of damage would you give blasters from Star Wars? Because the lightsaber deals the same kind of damage as a blaster. I figured it would be called just energy.

Any other thoughts on the sub-classes or was the main point of contention the darkside path?

For the classes available in the SW setting I was going to have
barbarian
fighter
rogue
monk
jedi
spell less ranger of some sort called the scout-nothing fleshed out yet though.
a class that's like the noble from saga edition. This is what the class is detailed as from the book
"Members of the noble class use their intelligence and natural charisma
to make their way in the galaxy. From true royalty to elected
officials, military commanders to crime lords, traders, merchants,
ambassadors, holovid stars, and influential corporate magnates,
character types who appear in the noble class are varied and numerous.
Some bring honor to the name. Others are sly, treacherous, and
dishonorable to the core. With a winning smile, a golden tongue, a
powerful message, or a knack for making compromises, the noble
commands respect, makes friends, and inevitably influences
people."

SO i ave thoughts for this class but nothing fleshed out yet.

1. What I have to say here really ties into a response to #3.
2. I would say it would be radiant since there isn't "holy damage" in the Star Wars universe. You could also say it is fire that bypasses resistance but those immune are resistant.
3. That is what I feared. In the Star Wars RPG(at least in an older edition) the ability of force powers were mitigated by the fact you used skill points and since most things outside of combat were handled with skills there was some balancing factors. What you have here though is probably a half caster that recharges after a short rest with a lot of cantrips in a system in which you are going to have a similar number of proficiencies against non-casters(outside of sub-classes). I understand the setting will be different in which items and machines will be prolific but you are giving them half-caster++ power outside of the potential class abilities in which others will need to compete with.
4. You may need a slightly different casting system for the Force. What you could do is have Force Fundamentals as class features. These would act like a cantrip+ribbon abilities. However unlike most cantrips they don't scale. These fundamentals would allow you to choose a limited amount of options as you level kind of like a total spells known. These options of course would consume your Force points. As such you can focus on a couple of Fundamentals to gain the various nuances of that kind of force manipulation. This way you can limit what specifically one power does being individually less powerful than many spells but ultimately it could cover more ground in a certain area as a whole than spells.

[Amnoriath]

Also while I tried to say this before but the system here cut me off is that your sub-classes are way out of balance. Even in the Star Wars world the Jedi Sentinel has small niche abilities that really question the cost of taking this over the others. The Guardian is okay but it could be far more interesting, even the Battle Master get some side perks. The Consular and Dark Side are vastly superior to either one. Not only is the Consular actually more resilient than the warrior Jedi it gets 10 more force points very early and what I assume would be Sorcerer class features. These make a commanding advantage over the others. The Dark Side probably is a little less powerful but it gets a Warlock feature 4 levels earlier and the Dragon Sorcerer's capstone 7 levels earlier on the short rest recharge. That is a little much.

[PoeticDwarf]

This is just the Monk class but better.

Agreed, most features are almost exactly like the ones of the monk. Even the jedi of ImSAMazing is better:smallwink:

[intregus]

1. What I have to say here really ties into a response to #3.
2. I would say it would be radiant since there isn't "holy damage" in the Star Wars universe. You could also say it is fire that bypasses resistance but those immune are resistant.
3. That is what I feared. In the Star Wars RPG(at least in an older edition) the ability of force powers were mitigated by the fact you used skill points and since most things outside of combat were handled with skills there was some balancing factors. What you have here though is probably a half caster that recharges after a short rest with a lot of cantrips in a system in which you are going to have a similar number of proficiencies against non-casters(outside of sub-classes). I understand the setting will be different in which items and machines will be prolific but you are giving them half-caster++ power outside of the potential class abilities in which others will need to compete with.
4. You may need a slightly different casting system for the Force. What you could do is have Force Fundamentals as class features. These would act like a cantrip+ribbon abilities. However unlike most cantrips they don't scale. These fundamentals would allow you to choose a limited amount of options as you level kind of like a total spells known. These options of course would consume your Force points. As such you can focus on a couple of Fundamentals to gain the various nuances of that kind of force manipulation. This way you can limit what specifically one power does being individually less powerful than many spells but ultimately it could cover more ground in a certain area as a whole than spells.

So i went through and looked at just how many powers could be used by this class per short rest because at first glance it looks like they either won't get as many spells per day or they get almost the same amount of spells per day if you only allow 1 shot rest per day. Honestly it scaled really well until level 9 or 10 and then it get's broken. so I totally agree my initial idea won't work.

I'm going to table this class while I try to come up with a better way to do the force. maybe re-look at how psionics works. Thank you for helping point that out!

For anyone reading I'm absolutely open to ideas!


Agreed, most features are almost exactly like the ones of the monk.:

It was designed that way.

[intregus]

Made an update to the class based off the mystic. let me know what you think!

https://docs.google.com/document/d/16x3Ws_cFxnfsyrtKOy_A3Isy0O8j_xEKv6o4VNc7USM/edit?usp=sharing

[sterling vermin]

I can't post a link because I have fewer than 10 posts so far but I suggest doing a google search for siverain. It's a pretty neat Jedi class someone else has made for 5e that you might draw some ideas from!