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View Full Version : A druid in your party and the useful ness of gnoll ferocity



Threeshades
2007-05-11, 03:28 PM
Yes, I have 2 unrelated questions gain.
Or actually 3 of which 2 are related but the third isnt.

However for the first 2 questions, they are about the feat Gnoll Ferocity:

I can either use the Gnoll ferocity-granted bite attack alone and get the strength bonus on the damage total as usual. (btw: do i also get to make additional attacks with it that i get from a high BAB that way?) Or i can use it in addition to my normal attacks, when making a full attack, but then the bite doesnt get the damage bonus from the strenght modifier and i get -4 on attack rolls. Does the -4 only apply for the bite or also for my weapon attack? And what if i used additional attacks i get from a high BAB for the bite (or is that even possible)?
Uhm okay that were more than 2 questions better i list them again to make sure we got everything:
1. When only using the bite attack can i use all my attacks with it, if i got a BAB of more than 5?
2. If fighting with a weapon and the additional bite attack, does the -4 attack penalty only apply for the bite or also for the main weapon?
3. If my BAB is over 5 can I use my secondary attack(s) for the Bite (instead of, or in addition to the additional bite attack i get anyway)?
4. If the answer to #3 is yes, does the -4 penalty or the loss of the strength bonus apply?

And the other question about Gnoll Ferocity: Does taking that feat even pay off?

And now a question about Druids and adventuring parties:
Our DM usually doesnt allow us to play Druids because they are hard to include in a party. Mainly because they dont like to enter cities and such.
I dont really understand why would there be a bass class in the most core of the core books if its really that hard to get them into an adventuring party?
Or do you think he is just estimating it all wrong?
Maybe you have some tips on how to include Druids.

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Jasdoif
2007-05-11, 03:39 PM
And now a question about Druids and adventuring parties:
Our DM usually doesnt allow us to play Druids because they are hard to include in a party. Mainly because they dont like to enter cities and such.
I dont really understand why would there be a bass class in the most core of the core books if its really that hard to get them into an adventuring party?
Or do you think he is just estimating it all wrong?
Maybe you have some tips on how to include Druids.A typical druid wouldn't be comfortable living in a city, no; but it's a big stretch to think no druid would ever so much as consider entering one.

There are plenty of reasons why a druid might be in a city. What if a threat to the natural order is based out of a city? Wouldn't they be compelled to address the root of the problem? What if they see the little cats, dogs, and other small animals living in the city as part of nature too? Heck, what if they simply have friends who are city-dwellers, and don't mind visiting them once in a while or helping them with their troubles?

FdL
2007-05-11, 04:29 PM
And the other question about Gnoll Ferocity: Does taking that feat even pay off?


I don't remember what the feat does, but if I'm correct and it grants a bite attack, then I think it's not for every character. I mean, a bite attack from a standard humanoid race character it's a bit weird. Kinda creepy.



And now a question about Druids and adventuring parties:
Our DM usually doesnt allow us to play Druids because they are hard to include in a party. Mainly because they dont like to enter cities and such.
I dont really understand why would there be a bass class in the most core of the core books if its really that hard to get them into an adventuring party?
Or do you think he is just estimating it all wrong?
Maybe you have some tips on how to include Druids.


I think your DM is wrong and close minded about druids, but that might come from his lack of imagination or from having no experience playing druids. He basically has this concept of how and what a druid should be like, and imposes it on his players, denying them the possibility of playing a druid from another angle.

I've played a lot of druids, and they need not be the same, as not every fighter, wizard, rogue, etc needs to be the same and do the same things. I've never played a druid that refused to enter a city while in the company of a party or alone, and I've never heard of such things...Druids obviously feel at home in the wilderness, and there can be extreme cases of civilization-hating or naturalist fundamentalism. But I understand that a druid is first and foremost a very adaptable person, open minded in a scientific way. And I reasonably imagine that most druids do have a relation with populated settlements of any size, whether to aid small farming communities or to gain profit by selling herbs and rare spell components in big cities. Hey, you could even have urban druids without many changes, after all the city can be an ecosystem too.

Tellah
2007-05-11, 04:40 PM
You can find the rules for natural weapons here (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/monsterTypes.html#natural-weapons), but I've quoted them below:


Natural Weapons: Natural weapons are weapons that are physically a part of a creature. A creature making a melee attack with a natural weapon is considered armed and does not provoke attacks of opportunity. Likewise, it threatens any space it can reach. Creatures do not receive additional attacks from a high base attack bonus when using natural weapons. The number of attacks a creature can make with its natural weapons depends on the type of the attack—generally, a creature can make one bite attack, one attack per claw or tentacle, one gore attack, one sting attack, or one slam attack (although Large creatures with arms or arm-like limbs can make a slam attack with each arm). Refer to the individual monster descriptions.

Unless otherwise noted, a natural weapon threatens a critical hit on a natural attack roll of 20.

When a creature has more than one natural weapon, one of them (or sometimes a pair or set of them) is the primary weapon. All the creature’s remaining natural weapons are secondary.

The primary weapon is given in the creature’s Attack entry, and the primary weapon or weapons is given first in the creature’s Full Attack entry. A creature’s primary natural weapon is its most effective natural attack, usually by virtue of the creature’s physiology, training, or innate talent with the weapon. An attack with a primary natural weapon uses the creature’s full attack bonus. Attacks with secondary natural weapons are less effective and are made with a –5 penalty on the attack roll, no matter how many there are. (Creatures with the Multiattack feat take only a –2 penalty on secondary attacks.) This penalty applies even when the creature makes a single attack with the secondary weapon as part of the attack action or as an attack of opportunity.

Natural weapons have types just as other weapons do. The most common are summarized below.

Bite: The creature attacks with its mouth, dealing piercing, slashing, and bludgeoning damage.

Claw or Talon: The creature rips with a sharp appendage, dealing piercing and slashing damage.

Gore: The creature spears the opponent with an antler, horn, or similar appendage, dealing piercing damage.

Slap or Slam: The creature batters opponents with an appendage, dealing bludgeoning damage.

Sting: The creature stabs with a stinger, dealing piercing damage. Sting attacks usually deal damage from poison in addition to hit point damage.

Tentacle: The creature flails at opponents with a powerful tentacle, dealing bludgeoning (and sometimes slashing) damage.

Now to address your questions:


do i also get to make additional attacks with it that i get from a high BAB that way?) Or i can use it in addition to my normal attacks, when making a full attack, but then the bite doesnt get the damage bonus from the strenght modifier and i get -4 on attack rolls. Does the -4 only apply for the bite or also for my weapon attack? And what if i used additional attacks i get from a high BAB for the bite (or is that even possible)?

With natural weapons, you've got "primary" attacks and "secondary" attacks at -5 to hit and with half your strength modifier as a bonus to damage. You do not get additional, or iterative, attacks for a high BAB (an overlooked but important point in reducing the power level of Druids).



1. When only using the bite attack can i use all my attacks with it, if i got a BAB of more than 5?


Yes, and you can do so even earlier than that. With a BAB of +2 you could bite at +2 and use other attacks at -3, for instance.



2. If fighting with a weapon and the additional bite attack, does the -4 attack penalty only apply for the bite or also for the main weapon?


It's -5, and it applies to all "secondary" attacks. You are free to choose which attacks are primary and which are secondary, although you'll probably want to make your manufactured weapons count as primary.



3. If my BAB is over 5 can I use my secondary attack(s) for the Bite (instead of, or in addition to the additional bite attack i get anyway)?


You can always choose to make your bite a secondary attack, and you probably should.



4. If the answer to #3 is yes, does the -4 penalty or the loss of the strength bonus apply?


Yes, the -5 penalty and 1/2 strength bonus would be applicable.



And the other question about Gnoll Ferocity: Does taking that feat even pay off?


Unless you're going for a build using multiattack, not really. And if you're the Druid in question, you'd lose the bite attack while in wild shape, anyway.



And now a question about Druids and adventuring parties:
Our DM usually doesnt allow us to play Druids because they are hard to include in a party. Mainly because they dont like to enter cities and such.
I dont really understand why would there be a bass class in the most core of the core books if its really that hard to get them into an adventuring party?
Or do you think he is just estimating it all wrong?


He's not wrong, because it's his campaign world. I don't view Druids as being quite that dogmatic--maybe you could make a Druid character that proves otherwise. I assume, as a German, that Druid means something very different to you than it does to me, though. I've used the Druid class to represent American Indians, Japanese Shinto kanushi, tree-hugging eco-terrorists, expert hunters, and many other concepts. If my campaign were set in medieval Germany, though, they'd be a force standing against Roman cultural influences and would thus be strongly anti-"civilization".

Threeshades
2007-05-11, 05:18 PM
You can find the rules for natural weapons here (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/monsterTypes.html#natural-weapons), but I've quoted them below:



Now to address your questions:



With natural weapons, you've got "primary" attacks and "secondary" attacks at -5 to hit and with half your strength modifier as a bonus to damage. You do not get additional, or iterative, attacks for a high BAB (an overlooked but important point in reducing the power level of Druids).



Yes, and you can do so even earlier than that. With a BAB of +2 you could bite at +2 and use other attacks at -3, for instance.



It's -5, and it applies to all "secondary" attacks. You are free to choose which attacks are primary and which are secondary, although you'll probably want to make your manufactured weapons count as primary.



You can always choose to make your bite a secondary attack, and you probably should.



Yes, the -5 penalty and 1/2 strength bonus would be applicable.



Unless you're going for a build using multiattack, not really. And if you're the Druid in question, you'd lose the bite attack while in wild shape, anyway.



He's not wrong, because it's his campaign world. I don't view Druids as being quite that dogmatic--maybe you could make a Druid character that proves otherwise. I assume, as a German, that Druid means something very different to you than it does to me, though. I've used the Druid class to represent American Indians, Japanese Shinto kanushi, tree-hugging eco-terrorists, expert hunters, and many other concepts. If my campaign were set in medieval Germany, though, they'd be a force standing against Roman cultural influences and would thus be strongly anti-"civilization".

Oh yes, thanks a lot I was reading the rules for the feat wrong. it's saying that its the secondary attack in a full attack action.
And Im not planning a druid. Another player was thinking about a druid, that's why i was asking. (And actually we're playing Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting, so it isnt all his world :smallwink: )

However the reason why i asked about the usefulness of the feat is because as any other character i can also make my secondary attacks with my manufactured weapon, which is most likely going to be a Greataxe or -sword and those deal a lot more damage than a 1d6 bite attack. And a gnoll can only use the bite attack while raging.


I don't remember what the feat does, but if I'm correct and it grants a bite attack, then I think it's not for every character. I mean, a bite attack from a standard humanoid race character it's a bit weird. Kinda creepy.
It's only for Gnolls (that can rage or frenzy). And basically it grants a 1d6 damage bite attack when raging/frenzying.

Weasel of Doom
2007-05-11, 07:01 PM
It could be diferent for his world but many druids will be fine about going in cities and in fact the cityscape excerpt on the D&D site has druids that live in cities with the rats and people.

FdL
2007-05-11, 09:07 PM
Tellah, thanks for your insightful post. For some of the classes, we're all kinda used to think of a narrow range of stereotypes. A druid can be a lot of different things, sure.

AtomicKitKat
2007-05-12, 12:05 AM
From what I remember of Gnoll Ferocity, while raging, you get the option to bite(one bite attack per round, regardless of BAB. Can bite multiple times as AoOs though). You can use the Bite as a Primary(and get 1.5*Str to it, since it's your only natural weapon), but you won't get more attacks from BAB with it. This is a good option while your BAB <5. Once you hit BAB 5 and above, just use a Reach Weapon when you rage, and you'll threaten all squares 5-10'(Bite covering your usual reach, weapon covers the other 5'). If you use the Bite as Primary, the manufactured weapon attacks will be at -5, considered Off-hand(requiring TWF tree to get more attacks based on BAB), get 1/2 Str Bonus, etc. If you use the manufactured as Primary, you get BAB/5(rounded up) attacks per round with it, 1*Str to damage(1.5 if two-handing), and Bite as Secondary(-5 from BAB, 1/2 Str to damage).

As to the druid question, I think we had that last year. Someone had a similar DM who thought all Druids were tree-hugging city-phobes.

Try Google with the following(just copy and paste): Druid city site:giantitp.com/forums/

Threeshades
2007-05-12, 04:49 PM
Okay, i thought i should add some more questions right here instead of opening yet another thread.

Its about the race(s) Hadozee and Hazaru. I found the description of "Hadozee" somewhere on the internet. And it absolutely fit on the pictures ive seen of the Hazaru i saw in the online art gallery of Stormwrack.
And on the crystakeep SRDs i found "Hadozee" as a race from Stormwrack, that's abilities would suit the Hazaru too.
So uh. Are Hadozee and Hazaru the same now? And if so which is the correct/current name?

(oh and id like to know a little more about their fluff)

Leon
2007-05-13, 12:16 PM
I cant find any mention of Hazaru in Stormwrack, so i think that Hadozee must the new name for them

Threeshades
2007-05-13, 12:22 PM
I cant find any mention of Hazaru in Stormwrack, so i think that Hadozee must the new name for them

So they are called Hadozee there.

These are the pictures named "Hazaru" in the online gallery:
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/storm_gallery/90754.jpg
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/storm_gallery/90716.jpg