Trying to figure out dwarf-human relations in campaign setting.

[dragonfuit88]

I'm running a (2e) DnD game... My main city is a port town named Serpent Falls that sits between two human monarchies (Odz and Mar). Both nations are heavily mountainous with prolific mines, which attracts a los of dwarven workers. Near all the major mines the dwarves have set up their own mostly independently run cities, but they work along side human miners. I just can't figure out how the human and dwarves feel about each other. It doesn't directly relate to game play at the moment, but I eventually need to figure out what the atmosphere will feel like when the PC's go to one of these dwarf towns.

[Mechalich]

Who owns the mines? Or actually, who has feudal title to the lands the mines sit upon and therefore gets to siphon up the profit they produce?

If the kingdoms are human, then regardless of dwarven independence, the mining money flows to humans coffers. In that case, the dwarven and human working classes probably have a reasonable amount of solidarity.

On the other hand, if dwarves have been ennobled to control the mines, then the humans probably resent them a great deal and feel oppressed (doubly so if mine design has been fitted to dwarven standards and the humans have to hunch over all the time while working in them).

[StandardDeviant]

Unless you have a plot need for either outright hostility or happily blended interspecies harmony, I'd suggest going with "tense, but complicated." You have two different species and cultures living in close (but self-segregated) communities, interacting under often dangerous conditions in the mines. I imagine humans that dislike dwarves: "little blighters moving in, taking human jobs, eating funny dwarven food." Some of the dwarves dislike humans: "overgrown gits don't show proper respect for the elder races, don't know the first thing about mining, probably going to kill us all in a cave-in." That sort of thing. But familiarity breeds friendship as well as contempt and it sounds like the situation is probably an overall economic benefit for both parties, even if not everyone can see that.

So if the PCs walk into a (large) tavern, their first impression might be of dwarves and humans on opposite sides of the room, not making eye contact. But that's just the first impression. Scattered around the room are a handful of tables with mixed groups. And one dwarf is slap in the middle of a long table of humans—that's Hrothgar Hammerfall, who pulled four of the men out from a nastily collapsed shaft, and need never buy his own ale again. If a dispute erupts (here, or in the town, generally) people are going to fracture along multiple, hopefully interesting lines.

Just my twa' ha'pennies. Cheers!

[dragonfuit88]

I like the slightly tense but mostly working relationship for now. I think the dwarves have probably been around for about one dwarf generation, 300 years or so. Which is long enough for them to grow beyond just a few migrant workers, and I know some of them are advisers to the kings. I'm also playing with the idea that they may want to gain their own mining right and eventually have their own empire within the empire.

[dragonfuit88]

Who owns the mines? Or actually, who has feudal title to the lands the mines sit upon and therefore gets to siphon up the profit they produce?

If the kingdoms are human, then regardless of dwarven independence, the mining money flows to humans coffers. In that case, the dwarven and human working classes probably have a reasonable amount of solidarity.

On the other hand, if dwarves have been ennobled to control the mines, then the humans probably resent them a great deal and feel oppressed (doubly so if mine design has been fitted to dwarven standards and the humans have to hunch over all the time while working in them).

The humans own the mines; but I do have at least one completely dwarf owned mine under the my main city (Serpent Falls). The humans basically have no idea this mine exists.

[Mechalich]

I like the slightly tense but mostly working relationship for now. I think the dwarves have probably been around for about one dwarf generation, 300 years or so. Which is long enough for them to grow beyond just a few migrant workers, and I know some of them are advisers to the kings. I'm also playing with the idea that they may want to gain their own mining right and eventually have their own empire within the empire.

Though it's kind of a technical note, a generation is not equivalent to lifespan, it represents average time to adulthood and reproduction, and the birth cohort that results. So, humans, for example, have a generation time usually between 20 and 25 years. A dwarf generation would probably be between 60 and 100 years (assuming standard D&D dwarf lifespans).

So if the dwarves have been present for 300 years, they could have as many as five generations residing in the mining towns from the feeblest elders to the youngest infants.