Natural abilities (3.5)

[Twurps]

Triggered by threads like this one (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?435318-Do-multiple-AC-bonus-class-features-stack) (somewhere halfway p1, I dunno how to link to a specific part of a thread), and also because I'm trying to build a viable wildshaping ranger/MoMF, I come to this forum for a rules question that should be simple, but somehow isn't (for me).

What are natural abilities?

PH(p180) has this to say, under the header of 'special abilities':
Natural Abilities: This category includes abilities a creature has because of its physical nature, such as a bird’s ability to fly. Natural abilities are those not otherwise designated as extraordinary, supernatural, or spell-like.

seems clear enough. But turning to the monster manual: There is Zero mention of natural abilities. In fact it states (p6): A special ability is either extraordinary (Ex), spell-like (Sp), or supernatural (Su).
And in the glossary goes on to mark flight (a natural ability according to PH) as either (ex) or (su).

any thoughts on this and/or examples of natural abilities would be greatly appreciated.

[zergling.exe]

Abilities gained from type and subtype are natural unless called otherwise. Creatures with a flight speed that isn't listed as an ability (such as the Beholder's is listed) tend to have wings, and thus natural flight.

Natural abilities are basically the ones that aren't mentioned or labeled. Curiously this makes the Planetar's Regeneration a natural ability.

[nyjastul69]

If an ability is not marked as Su, Sp or Ex it is a Na ability.

[Twurps]

If an ability is not marked as Su, Sp or Ex it is a Na ability.

By that logic: Virtually all abilities are (Na). rarely ever in the monster entries of the MM does it say (ex), (sp) or (Su).
And referring to the glossary doesn't help us either, as many a quality isn't listed at all, and some (such as flight) give the choice for (ex) or (su) (So which one does the Beholder have?) whilst also being (Na) sometimes??

Darkvision, for example, would be (na) as it isn't listed, where lowlight vision would be (ex), as that one is listed.

[nyjastul69]

By that logic: Virtually all abilities are (Na). rarely ever in the monster entries of the MM does it say (ex), (sp) or (Su).
And referring to the glossary doesn't help us either, as many a quality isn't listed at all, and some (such as flight) give the choice for (ex) or (su) (So which one does the Beholder have?) whilst also being (Na) sometimes??

Darkvision, for example, would be (na) as it isn't listed, where lowlight vision would be (ex), as that one is listed.

I'm not using logic. I'm just reiterating the rule.

[Karnith]

By that logic: Virtually all abilities are (Na). rarely ever in the monster entries of the MM does it say (ex), (sp) or (Su).
Most monster abilities are typed, or at least most of the ones that get a description in a monster's statblock, though it's often a fun trek to find where they are given a type or which type applies. Spellcasting and some other class features, or monster abilities that imitate class features, are generally the ones that don't get typed.

And referring to the glossary doesn't help us either, as many a quality isn't listed at all, and some (such as flight) give the choice for (ex) or (su) (So which one does the Beholder have?) whilst also being (Na) sometimes??
A beholder's flight is not typed, so it's a natural ability (because sure, why not). An Ogre Mage's flight (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/ogreMage.htm), on the other hand, is supernatural, while astral constructs (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/monsters/astralConstruct.htm) can have extraordinary flight.

EDIT: Strike that, beholders have Extraordinary flight; see Monster Manual, p. 25. For a different creature with nonsensical natural flight, see the Nightmare (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/nightmare.htm).

Darkvision, for example, would be (na) as it isn't listed, where lowlight vision would be (ex), as that one is listed.
Darkvision is an extraordinary ability unless stated otherwise; see the glossary in the Player's Handbook, p. 307 or the Dungeon Master's Guide, p. 292.

Natural abilities are basically the ones that aren't mentioned or labeled. Curiously this makes the Planetar's Regeneration a natural ability.
Regeneration defaults to Extraordinary (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#regeneration) (relevant book sections DMG p. 298 and MM p.314) unless stated otherwise.

[zergling.exe]

Regeneration defaults to Extraordinary (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#regeneration) unless stated otherwise.

That's the curious part. It is listed in the combat section because you need to know what overcomes it. But it is not listed as being (Ex), unlike the Solar's which is.
Thus, by RAW, it is an exception to Regeneration being (Ex), and is a natural ability of Planetars.

[Karnith]

That's the curious part. It is listed in the combat section because you need to know what overcomes it. But it is not listed as being (Ex), unlike the Solar's which is.
Thus, by RAW, it is an exception to Regeneration being (Ex), and is a natural ability of Planetars.
No, "natural abilities are those not otherwise designated as extraordinary, supernatural, or spell-like (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#naturalAbilities)." While this particular instance of regeneration doesn't specify what kind of ability it is, it doesn't need to. The general rule for Regeneration does (in both the Monster Manual and the DMG; see the sources in my previous post), thus it defaults to the general rule and is Extraordinary. For a Planetar's regeneration ability to be a natural ability, it would need to specifically override the general rule. Say, something like "A Planetar's regeneration is a natural ability." Or, were it to be consistent with Damage Reduction, "Regeneration (Su)."

The absence of an ability type only matters when there isn't a general rule for the ability in question. See e.g. spellcasting.

[nyjastul69]

Most monster abilities are typed, or at least most of the ones that get a description in a monster's statblock, though it's often a fun trek to find where they are given a type or which type applies. Spellcasting and some other class features, or monster abilities that imitate class features, are generally the ones that don't get typed.

A beholder's flight is not typed, so it's a natural ability (because sure, why not). An Ogre Mage's flight (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/ogreMage.htm), on the other hand, is supernatural, while astral constructs (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/monsters/astralConstruct.htm) can have extraordinary flight.

EDIT: Strike that, beholders have Extraordinary flight; see Monster Manual, p. 25. For a different creature with nonsensical natural flight, see the Nightmare (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/nightmare.htm).

Darkvision is an extraordinary ability unless stated otherwise; see the glossary in the Player's Handbook, p. 307 or the Dungeon Master's Guide, p. 292.

Regeneration defaults to Extraordinary (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#regeneration) (relevant book section DMG p. 298) unless stated otherwise.

Heh, beholders are naturally bouyant because of an Ex ability. I wonder if they could make these distinctions less clear if they actively tried to?

[Karnith]

Heh, beholders are naturally bouyant because of an Ex ability. I wonder if they could make these distinctions less clear if they actively tried to?
There really isn't a justification for the distinction between Extraordinary and Natural abilities. The glossary definition of the latter (PHB, p. 310) is even sillier and less useful, being simply "a nonmagical capability."

[Twurps]

Thanks all, this is helpful (kind of...)


I'm not using logic. I'm just reiterating the rule.
yeah, sorry 'bout that.
note to self: *must stop applying logic to RAW or bad things happen*


Most monster abilities are typed, or at least most of the ones that get a description in a monster's statblock, though it's often a fun trek to find where they are given a type or which type applies. Spellcasting and some other class features, or monster abilities that imitate class features, are generally the ones that don't get typed.

A beholder's flight is not typed, so it's a natural ability (because sure, why not). An Ogre Mage's flight (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/ogreMage.htm), on the other hand, is supernatural, while astral constructs (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/monsters/astralConstruct.htm) can have extraordinary flight.

EDIT: Strike that, beholders have Extraordinary flight; see Monster Manual, p. 25. For a different creature with nonsensical natural flight, see the Nightmare (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/nightmare.htm).

Darkvision is an extraordinary ability unless stated otherwise; see the glossary in the Player's Handbook, p. 307 or the Dungeon Master's Guide, p. 292.

Regeneration defaults to Extraordinary (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#regeneration) (relevant book sections DMG p. 298 and MM p.314) unless stated otherwise.
One would think the rules regarding the nature of abilities would be stated in the book filled with said abilities. Aparently I was wrong. Thanks though. This is really helpfull (page references FTW!)

would anyone be able to help me with the category the different 'traits', such as 'plant traits' and 'ooze traits' fall in? So far I'm failing to find anything on those, so defaulting to (na)?

[Yael]

In the Complete Guide to Beholders, it is stated that the eye tyrants float due to their blood being less dense than air, being a Na flight ability, but you know, 3rd party :smallwink:

Just wanted you all to know~ :leaves slowly:

[Zombimode]

By that logic: Virtually all abilities are (Na). rarely ever in the monster entries of the MM does it say (ex), (sp) or (Su).

Are we reading the same book? Abilities are almost always typed in the MM's.

[ExLibrisMortis]

Are we reading the same book? Abilities are almost always typed in the MM's.
Special abilities are almost always typed, but things like fly speeds, claw attacks, and low-light vision aren't usually typed, while still arguably being abilities.