I created a karsite warlock on the fly and need help making it work

[dehro]

So, I improvised my new character as a level 11 warlock, of karsite race so effectively with LA it's a level 9 warlock
My rolls were as follows:
STR. 9. +1 level=10
DEX. 12. =12
CON. 16 +2(racial adj.) =18
INT. 14. =14
WIS. 5. =5
CHA. 17 +2(racial adj.) +1 level=20

I have already played him for half a session so I picked a couple of feats on the fly.
Improved initiative
Able learner,
Force of personality (which is accepted as being pretty much across the board for will saves)

Invocations selected so far are
See the unseen
Fell flight
Walk unseen

What I can get away with: I am allowed swapping stats around (except for wisdom which I like where it's at).
I can change the feats and the Invocations chosen so far

What I would like to do: I'm thinking of playing upon the lack of wisdom and make him an impulsive guy with terrible judgement.
I'd like to play him either as a blastlock (either learning a thing or two beyond blasting or veering towards hellfire warlock instead), or as a glaivelock, maybe mixing in a level or two of warrior or something else useful.
The main issue with the last option, with any option really, is that we do play with multiclassing penalties if we depart from the racial favourite class, which is binder, something I don't want to play in this instance.
Either way, his core identity is that of a somewhat reckless CN-CG warlock.
Budget for equipment is 60.000 gold, with max amount on any single item to be 20.000 gold.

Extreme minmaxing is frowned upon.. In fact already picking the karsite race is already seen as powerplaying, or would, if it didn't come with a LA of 2.
I don't want to end up with more than 1 other class and a prestige class, at the most, better if only warlock and 1 other thing, whether PC or alternate class (again, penalties apply and there is no LA buyoff)
The setting is based on faerun. Tome of battle, third party stuff, psionic powers, the Monk class are off limits and dragon magazines are seriously frowned upon and likely to be banned... Except for Invocations that might be there. The "only" spells allowed are those in the spell compendium and the core books.
I am open to suggestions on how to put together a somewhat decent glaivelock (preferred option) or blastlock.
Despite me using fancy words in the previous sentences and having read manuals and such, I'm pretty much selectively dyslexic when it comes to fiddling with character options... Numbers and feat options just melt together in a big blur of "so what should I actually pick?"

[Socratov]

ehm, 16+2 make for 18 do they not?

As for invocations, seeing how you aren't in an ideal situation to go clawlock and ho wyou current choice for invocations is not geared towards glaivelock. Great charisma so I'd opt for basic debuffing and utility (seeing as you aren't human or doppelganger so no crafterlock).

Take Baleful Utterance. If you can't see the value of shatter as the spell at will then stop playing warlock and pick a binder (or somesuch), this is one invocation that is about the best at its level. Then take Darkness. Also, you want to trade away your invisibity invocation by getting two feats and a better way of hiding though HipS and Darkness

Least:


See the Unseen
Baleful Utterance
Darkness


Lesser:


Fell Flight
Walk Unseen now you can hide in magical darkness and see through it just pop darkness on you and cast lots of Chilling Tentacles



Feats:


racial Improved Initiative
1st. Able Learnerunneccessary unless you are human and want to enter chameleon, instead take Blend into Darkness[b]
3rd. [B]Force of Personality
6th. Instinctive Darkness
9th. At Home in the Deep



Now you pop darkness on yourself as a immedeate action, you HipS in it (make sure to pump hide and you won't need invisibility at all), and because it's magical darkness you cannot be found by regular darkvision (you are unobserved for that matter) you aren't invisible and thus seen with arcane sight/see invisibility and since you aren't attacking anyone you can keep on casting Chilling tentacles like nobody's business. Then, if you need you can shatter anything and scout for invisible creatures and creatures hiding in the dark (even if they are in magical darkness since you can expressly see through it, as opposed to others). Now have fun and kick ass.

[Mr Adventurer]

Not bad advice, except I have never seen how Shatter is supposed to be all that great...

[dehro]

They do.. I amended it.

About invisibility.. My first appearance was met by a zombie dragon sort of creature that saw through my invisibility.
We tend to encounter all sorts of creatures that seem to not have much problems with catching us unawares and not falling g for the same strategy.
We also spend a considerable amount of time in tunnels..If I swamp the place with darkness that might just harm my allies more than impede my foes.
I played a warlock a bit more than a year ago.. I remember that the enemies were very rarely grappled by tentacles and more often than not shrugged off the rather low damage they caused per round..So I mostly resorted to blasting from a distance, with only a small number of times in which I did any damage worthy of notice, compared to the main damage dealers in the party.

I'm not getting something: Hips??
Also, I am allowed to swap my Invocations to something better suited for glaivelock.. Since karsites are more effective if they get in close, I wonder if that's not what I should be aiming for

Thank you for your help so far

[Socratov]

Not bad advice, except I have never seen how Shatter is supposed to be all that great...
Anything solid can be shattered, handcuffs, doors, locks, hinges, you name it. If you can get a magic item supressed you can shatter it into a gazillion pieces (if you really need it to be). Chrystalline creatures are dead to you as soon as you act (and if you have a sensible DM you could argue that skeletons are valid targets as well, though a fort-half would be reasonable). Use it to help you intimidate others/create a protection racket (nice vase you got there, it would be ahem a shame if something were to happen to it). Shatter to a warlock is like rope to a rogue and/or adventurer: it might not be used 100% of the time and not help in combat, but you are gonna need it and be thankful you took it with you.

They do.. I amended it.

About invisibility.. My first appearance was met by a zombie dragon sort of creature that saw through my invisibility.
We tend to encounter all sorts of creatures that seem to not have much problems with catching us unawares and not falling g for the same strategy.
We also spend a considerable amount of time in tunnels..If I swamp the place with darkness that might just harm my allies more than impede my foes.
I played a warlock a bit more than a year ago.. I remember that the enemies were very rarely grappled by tentacles and more often than not shrugged off the rather low damage they caused per round..So I mostly resorted to blasting from a distance, with only a small number of times in which I did any damage worthy of notice, compared to the main damage dealers in the party.

I'm not getting something: Hips??
Also, I am allowed to swap my Invocations to something better suited for glaivelock.. Since karsites are more effective if they get in close, I wonder if that's not what I should be aiming for

Thank you for your help so far

HiPS stands for Hide in Plain Sight. It means you can hide where you stand (i.e. without full cover) to become hidden, which is undetectable until they beat a really high spotcheck (and thus must have a way to see through magical darkness for which Darkvision isn't any use). So they can't detect you while you stay hidden and no trueseeing will at any time reveal them to you as invisibility does (really that effect has been bad since everyone and their mother could get see invisibility).

For Glaivelock you will need many other stuff, including a binder dip, Hellfire Warlock (PrC) and some other ways of getting bonusdamage on your attacks. (also a much higher Dex and weapon finesse). Seriously, the biuld you get now is much better since you can scout (a rarely well done partyrole), debuff considerably (remember this? (http://oots.wikia.com/wiki/Evan's_Spiked_Tentacles_of_Forced_Intrusion)) and sabotage the enemy (shatter, shatter everything they need and you don't), and do it all undetected and silent since even if your shatter is a baleful utterance, your invocations only require somatic components.

have fun!

[dehro]

I'll check it out and see how well it works with the rest of the team... We do have a ranger-scout on the team too, so there might be a bit of overlap..
Also, if I am to play a character with a wisdom of 5, I don't know if I can play him as a tactical "sneak around and play it safe" kind of guy, which I realise is somewhat suicidal, as strategies go...
As for the glaivelock, I have been given permission to swap my stats around, so maxing DEX with maybe the help of an item is not entirely impossible.
..And yes, I remember the tentacles, but as I said in our previous campaign, one way or another, they rarely if ever did anything useful or noticeable, especially at higher levels where we tend to encounter creatures with all sorts of immunities. In more than one fight I'd end up sitting on the sidelines or doing single digit damages.
Would the karsite 's peculiarities be activated by the tentacles? That could actually make it really worth it.

I do like the extra skills at hiding though.. Even though it seems rather feat consuming. (also, how do I make it so my allies aren't harmed by the darkness more than my foes?or do I use the darkness combo only during scouting?) Would a creature that can see magic see me despite me being shrouded in darkness, should I have a few magic items on me? How about various forms of true seeing? For one reason or the other, being effective at Hips seems to always fail with the creatures that oppose us, case in point creatures that see through various effects..as in my very first exploration with this new character.

A small note about baleful utterance.. In the previous campaign it happened that I broke a lock using that invocation. It was ruled that breaking it resulted in the door being now stuck and un-pickable. I must have badly explained the effects of the power.. :smallannoyed:...Anyway, it ends up being rather nerfed, since circumstances seem to never work out how I intend them to.

[Socratov]

I'll check it out and see how well it works with the rest of the team... We do have a ranger-scout on the team too, so there might be a bit of overlap..
Also, if I am to play a character with a wisdom of 5, I don't know if I can play him as a tactical "sneak around and play it safe" kind of guy, which I realise is somewhat suicidal, as strategies go...
As for the glaivelock, I have been given permission to swap my stats around, so maxing DEX with maybe the help of an item is not entirely impossible.
..And yes, I remember the tentacles, but as I said in our previous campaign, one way or another, they rarely if ever did anything useful or noticeable, especially at higher levels where we tend to encounter creatures with all sorts of immunities. In more than one fight I'd end up sitting on the sidelines or doing single digit damages.
Would the karsite 's peculiarities be activated by the tentacles? That could actually make it really worth it.
I don't know where karsite is from, I tried to find it in the great interwebz but I only found human like traits and spell resistance. so if you could tell me more about them that would be great. and I could account for them. As for hte tentacles, they are mostly about no-save damage (cold type) and grappling, so the creatures encountering them should be under a permanent freedom of movement effect to have no problems iwth it, or have IHS the effect of the tentacles away. Also note that this setup is more about making your enemies suck then doing lots of damage which is better done in other ways or by other people. Also, your int should dictate what are the great targets of shutting things down. In fact, you should make sure you step forward for any infiltration mission since you have no good wis, and thus no good common sense.

I do like the extra skills at hiding though.. Even though it seems rather feat consuming. Would a creature that can see magic see me despite me being shrouded in darkness, should I have a few magic items on me?
well, to be honest, according to what I read when you are hidden through HiPS, you are hidden. Period. Only if they dispell the stuff you are hiding in (in this case magical darkness) and spot you they can see you. That's what HiPS does: it grants you total concealment and cover in a certain area. Also, think about the fact that you have a strong aura of magical darkness around you clouding the auras of the magic items around you (and the darkness can also be centered on you or an item you wear). This is also where the rules get a bit silly, when in doubt, ask your DM.

A small note about baleful utterance.. In the previous campaign it happened that I broke a lock using that invocation. It was ruled that breaking it resulted in the door being now stuck and un-pickable. I must have badly explained the effects of the power.. :smallannoyed:...Anyway, it ends up being rather nerfed, since circumstances seem to never work out how I intend them to.

why not shatter the door as a whole then? Or the hinges? You can completely dictate what you want to shatter and be as specific as you like to be.

[dehro]

I don't know where karsite is from

why not shatter the door as a whole then? Or the hinges? You can completely dictate what you want to shatter and be as specific as you like to be.

Heh, this is why I suck at playing d&d.. I should have thought of it myself.
As for the karsite, he is from the tome of magic, and the interesting part why I insisted on mentioning the glaivelock is the following underlined bit :

• Human Traits: Karsites possess all the traits of humans as described in the Player’s Handbook, except as noted here.• +2 Constitution, +2 Charisma: Karsites are exceptionally hardy, and their bloodline gives them a commanding pres-ence.
• Damage Reduction: A karsite has damage reduction 5/magic.
• Spell Resistance: A karsite’s spell resistance equals 10 + his class levels.
• Magic Draining Attacks (Su): A karsite’s melee attacks can weaken a foe’s magic armor, weapon, or shield. If a creature struck in melee by a karsite fails a Will save (DC 10 + Cha modifier), one of the combat-oriented magic items (armor, shield, or weapon) in its possession is suppressed for 1 round. If a karsite knows a particular weapon, armor, or shield in his foe’s possession is magical, he can choose to drain that item, provided that he can see it. Otherwise, the item is chosen randomly. Drained items still detect as magical, but the magic appears suppressed. The save DC is Charisma-based.
• Spell Healing (Su): Whenever a karsite’s spell resistance prevents a spell from affecting him, he heals 2 points of damage per spell level. Thus, if a 7th-level spell failed to penetrate a karsite’s spell resistance, he would heal 14 points of damage.
• Spellcasting Inability: Karsites cannot cast arcane or divine spells, even if they take levels in a class that grants spellcasting ability. They can use spell-like abilities, psionic powers, and magic items normally.
• Proficiencies: Karsites are proficient with light and medium armor, and with martial weapons.
• Favored Class: Binder.
• Level Adjustment: +2.

[Socratov]

Heh, this is why I suck at playing d&d.. I should have thought of it myself.
As for the karsite, he is from the tome of magic, and the interesting part why I insisted on mentioning the glaivelock is the following underlined bit :

• Human Traits: Karsites possess all the traits of humans as described in the Player’s Handbook, except as noted here.• +2 Constitution, +2 Charisma: Karsites are exceptionally hardy, and their bloodline gives them a commanding pres-ence.
• Damage Reduction: A karsite has damage reduction 5/magic.• Spell Resistance: A karsite’s spell resistance equals 10 + his class levels.
• Magic Draining Attacks (Su): A karsite’s melee attacks can weaken a foe’s magic armor, weapon, or shield. If a creature struck in melee by a karsite fails a Will save (DC 10 + Cha modifier), one of the combat-oriented magic items (armor, shield, or weapon) in its possession is suppressed for 1 round. If a karsite knows a particular weapon, armor, or shield in his foe’s possession is magical, he can choose to drain that item, provided that he can see it. Otherwise, the item is chosen randomly. Drained items still detect as magi-cal, but the magic appears suppressed. The save DC is Charisma-based.
• Spell Healing (Su): Whenever a karsite’s spell resistance prevents a spell from affecting him, he heals 2 points of damage per spell level. Thus, if a 7th-level spell failed to penetrate a karsite’s spell resistance, he would heal 14 points of damage.
• Spellcasting Inability: Karsites cannot cast arcane or divine spells, even if they take levels in a class that grants spellcasting ability. They can use spell-like abilities, psionic powers, and magic items normally.
• Proficiencies: Karsites are proficient with light and medium armor, and with martial weapons.
• Favored Class: Binder.
• Level Adjustment: +2.

Oh, that changes a lot, in that case, read this handboo (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?265455-The-Newest-Warlock-Handbook-3-5)k, and follow every advice related to glaivelock. (that favoured class binder is a real life saver since it removes multiclass penalties for the one level dip in binder for naberius at lvl 10, before diving into hellfire warlock. )

[Sagetim]

So, I improvised my new character as a level 11 warlock, of karsite race so effectively with LA it's a level 9 warlock
My rolls were as follows:
STR. 9. +1 level=10
DEX. 12. =12
CON. 16 +2(racial adj.) =18
INT. 14. =14
WIS. 5. =5
CHA. 17 +2(racial adj.) +1 level=20

I have already played him for half a session so I picked a couple of feats on the fly.
Improved initiative
Able learner,
Force of personality (which is accepted as being pretty much across the board for will saves)

Invocations selected so far are
See the unseen
Fell flight
Walk unseen

What I can get away with: I am allowed swapping stats around (except for wisdom which I like where it's at).
I can change the feats and the Invocations chosen so far

What I would like to do: I'm thinking of playing upon the lack of wisdom and make him an impulsive guy with terrible judgement.
I'd like to play him either as a blastlock (either learning a thing or two beyond blasting or veering towards hellfire warlock instead), or as a glaivelock, maybe mixing in a level or two of warrior or something else useful.
The main issue with the last option, with any option really, is that we do play with multiclassing penalties if we depart from the racial favourite class, which is binder, something I don't want to play in this instance.
Either way, his core identity is that of a somewhat reckless CN-CG warlock.
Budget for equipment is 60.000 gold, with max amount on any single item to be 20.000 gold.

Extreme minmaxing is frowned upon.. In fact already picking the karsite race is already seen as powerplaying, or would, if it didn't come with a LA of 2.
I don't want to end up with more than 1 other class and a prestige class, at the most, better if only warlock and 1 other thing, whether PC or alternate class (again, penalties apply and there is no LA buyoff)
The setting is based on faerun. Tome of battle, third party stuff, psionic powers, the Monk class are off limits and dragon magazines are seriously frowned upon and likely to be banned... Except for Invocations that might be there. The "only" spells allowed are those in the spell compendium and the core books.
I am open to suggestions on how to put together a somewhat decent glaivelock (preferred option) or blastlock.
Despite me using fancy words in the previous sentences and having read manuals and such, I'm pretty much selectively dyslexic when it comes to fiddling with character options... Numbers and feat options just melt together in a big blur of "so what should I actually pick?"

Has your warlock heard the good word? You might want to look at the Enlightened Soul warlock prestige class if you're going chaotic good warlock anyway. I know it's not the most optimized of things, but you said yourself that you're not looking for optimization, just competency. I think with 5 warlock and 4 of that you'll have the celestial flight from the prestige class, which maintains your whole 'I can fllllllly' thing. At least one of the blasts is spiffy if only because it slaps things with dimensional anchor.

As a blastlock, I would figure your dex should swap with con. I know you only have to hit touch ac's, but when you fight an opponent that is a touch tank, it's going to suuuuuuck if you don't have better than 12 dex.

Chasubel of Fell Power, 18k. Get one. It's a +2d6 eldritch blast amulet.

Mithral chain shirt or mithral breast plate is your friend. The breast plate if your dex mod isn't that high, the chain shirt if your dex mod is going to get up near +6 with a pair of +6 dex gloves. Get the armor at like...+3 or +4 or so and your ac will thank you.

If you go straight warlock, my suggestions for greater invocations are things like vitrolic blast (because spell resistance is a bitch), and devour magic (because nomnomnom magic is delicious and it meshes with the whole karsite thing).

When I make a warlock I tend to pick up the fey heritage feats because the DR from fey skin stacks with the DR from warlock for more DR....and the spell like abilities from the 6th and 9th level feats can be useful. Okay, maybe not deep slumber, but you got 20 cha, might as well abuse it.

I think maximize spell like ability (it's a feat) works with eldritch blast, doesn't it? Even if it's just 3/day, it's a nice little 'I really need to kill this guy fast' button to have.

[dehro]

Oh, that changes a lot, in that case, read this handboo (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?265455-The-Newest-Warlock-Handbook-3-5)k, and follow every advice related to glaivelock. (that favoured class binder is a real life saver since it removes multiclass penalties for the one level dip in binder for naberius at lvl 10, before diving into hellfire warlock. )
that's pretty much what I'm thinking of doing.. except I still get lost in the pool of various things available.. 1 level of binder dip for naberius does sound really appealing.


Has your warlock heard the good word? You might want to look at the Enlightened Soul warlock prestige class if you're going chaotic good warlock anyway. I know it's not the most optimized of things, but you said yourself that you're not looking for optimization, just competency. I think with 5 warlock and 4 of that you'll have the celestial flight from the prestige class, which maintains your whole 'I can fllllllly' thing. At least one of the blasts is spiffy if only because it slaps things with dimensional anchor.

As a blastlock, I would figure your dex should swap with con. I know you only have to hit touch ac's, but when you fight an opponent that is a touch tank, it's going to suuuuuuck if you don't have better than 12 dex.

Chasubel of Fell Power, 18k. Get one. It's a +2d6 eldritch blast amulet.

Mithral chain shirt or mithral breast plate is your friend. The breast plate if your dex mod isn't that high, the chain shirt if your dex mod is going to get up near +6 with a pair of +6 dex gloves. Get the armor at like...+3 or +4 or so and your ac will thank you.

If you go straight warlock, my suggestions for greater invocations are things like vitrolic blast (because spell resistance is a bitch), and devour magic (because nomnomnom magic is delicious and it meshes with the whole karsite thing).

When I make a warlock I tend to pick up the fey heritage feats because the DR from fey skin stacks with the DR from warlock for more DR....and the spell like abilities from the 6th and 9th level feats can be useful. Okay, maybe not deep slumber, but you got 20 cha, might as well abuse it.

I think maximize spell like ability (it's a feat) works with eldritch blast, doesn't it? Even if it's just 3/day, it's a nice little 'I really need to kill this guy fast' button to have.

I did play a warlock with full fey heritage before, about a year ago.. it was fun.. but now I'm shooting more for the glaivelock angle, mindful of the Karsite's peculiarities (as spoilered in the previous post).

so far I've concluded that my path of choice would be binder 1/ warlock 8... with a view of prestige-classing into Hellfire Warlock in another level or two
Now I need to fiddle with the stats, pick the right feats.. and see where that takes me..

[dehro]

As a side question.. Hellfire is described as burning through pretty much everything including stuff that is immune to fire and objects... Does That mean I could actually hurt constructs like golems as well? Because normally a warlock is pretty much useless against them..

[Mr Adventurer]

Isn't Enlightened Soul the one that's terrible because it doesn't advance your Invocation caster level?

Edit: also, isn't it true that with Shatter, you can target anything - so long as it qualifies as an object in it's own right? It's not clear that you could Shatter the rivets in a suit of armour, for example - you'd have to target the armour as a whole.

[Nifft]

As a side question.. Hellfire is described as burning through pretty much everything including stuff that is immune to fire and objects... Does That mean I could actually hurt constructs like golems as well? Because normally a warlock is pretty much useless against them..

Vitriolic Blast [Blast Essence] is the usual anti-golem tool.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Do not use Enlightened Spirit (CM), it doesn't progress your caster level for invocations or eldritch blast, so it almost guarantees that you'll fail to overcome SR whenever it's present. It's nothing but a downgrade to the class. The only time it's usable is if you're making a gestalt character and take it with Warlock levels, since everything it grants (a flat damage bonus but not a class feature progression, specific invocations but not a class feature progression) will stack when taken on the same level as Warlock.

I'll second Hellfire Warlock with a Binder dip for Naberius. If you're going with a Glaivelock, definitely swap Dex and Int to take Power Attack since it will benefit the Eldritch Glaive, which makes touch attacks. Also consider Combat Reflexes since that's a reach weapon.

According to the Complete Arcane Errata (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20040125a), Eldritch Blast is always considered a 1st level spell-like ability on its own, and Eldritch Glaive only brings it up to 2nd level. If you take a feat that you must select a special ability for, such as Ability Focus or Quicken Spell-Like Ability (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsterFeats.htm), and pick Eldritch Blast, that feat can always be used with your Eldritch Blast regardless of what blast shape or eldritch essence invocations are applied to it, which is confirmed in the Official FAQ (archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20070731a). You can take Empower and/or Maximize Spell-Like Ability (CA): Eldritch Blast, and as long as you don't use a shape or essence that puts its effective spell level over what you can empower/maximize at your current level you can still use one or both of those feats with it. Ability Focus: Eldritch Blast will add +2 DC to any eldritch essence you apply to it.

Always consider taking Item Familiar (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/magic/itemFamiliars.htm), especially if your character is already at a disadvantage from level adjustment.

For your items, I would get a Greater Chasuble of Fell Power (MIC, 18k), Gloves of Eldritch Admixture (MIC, 2.5k), Anklet of Translocation (MIC, 1.4k), Mithralmist Shirt (MIC, 3.4k), Least Crystal of Adaptation (MIC, 500), Banner of the Storm's Eye shoulders slot (MIC, 15k) with a +2 Resistance bonus to saving throws added (MIC p234, 4k), Third Eye: Freedom (MIC, 2.6k), Ring of Sustenance (DMG, 2.5k), Armbands of Might if you take Power Attack (MIC, 4.1k), +1 Mithral Buckler (DMG, 2165), Lesser Crystal of Arrow Deflection (MIC, 2.5k), Hat of Disguise (DMG, 1.8k), and 30 gp remaining for mundane gear.

[dehro]

I'm liking many of the listed items (had a fair number of them with my previous blaster warlock)..
does Power Attack still apply if it's in fact not an actual glaive? I've read people saying that it doesn't actually is a weapon so you can't use many of the feats you would use in armed melee..
the item familiar, what with being a variant and all.. it does smell too much of minmaxing/optimizing, in the delicate noses of my fellow players :smallbiggrin:

[Sagetim]

I'm liking many of the listed items (had a fair number of them with my previous blaster warlock)..
does Power Attack still apply if it's in fact not an actual glaive? I've read people saying that it doesn't actually is a weapon so you can't use many of the feats you would use in armed melee..
the item familiar, what with being a variant and all.. it does smell too much of minmaxing/optimizing, in the delicate noses of my fellow players :smallbiggrin:

I'm fairly sure that falls under the weapon-like spells rule from complete arcane. From what I recall weapon-like spells count as weapons for things like weapon focus, power attack, and so on. If a weapon-like spell acts like a bow, it counts for weapon focus bow, specialization, improved critical, point blank shot, rapid shot, precise shot, etc. If a weapon-like sword is used to make melee attacks, you can power attack with it (and if it functions like a particular type of sword, such as a short sword or katana or what have you then focus and spec and so on apply normally).

And yeah, while stacking a bound naberius ontop of hellfire warlock makes sense from a build standpoint, remember that you're the one who has the play the character. The kind of person who uses not one, but two distinct forms of (likely taboo) magic that both involve making deals with strange entities for power. And one of them was Mephistopholes, because I'm pretty sure he's the only one with hellfire in 3.5 (well, him and his followers and maybe a handful of arcanists that have learned from him).

Hellfire- it burns hotter than hot. As I recall, it ignores normal fire resistance and fire immunity, and if there are any spells that protect against it, Mephistopholes has a monopoly on them. Unless hellfire blast specifies that it ignores SR, golems are still going to be a pain to fight. As mentioned above, Vitrolic Blast (for Acid damage and SR ignoring) is going to be your friend.

Also, I had always assumed that Enlightened Soul functioned sensibly (Which I assume with all prestige classes unless they specify that they are crap, like the skills list on the Order Of The Bow Initiate). So, while I may be wrong, I'm going to continue assuming that the Enlightened Soul advances your warlock caster level on the grounds that it advances your eldritch blast. Because it would be a really really dumb class otherwise.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

does Power Attack still apply if it's in fact not an actual glaive? I've read people saying that it doesn't actually is a weapon so you can't use many of the feats you would use in armed melee..


Power Attack [General]
Prerequisite
Str 13.

Benefit
On your action, before making attack rolls for a round, you may choose to subtract a number from all melee attack rolls and add the same number to all melee damage rolls. This number may not exceed your base attack bonus. The penalty on attacks and bonus on damage apply until your next turn.

Special
If you attack with a two-handed weapon, or with a one-handed weapon wielded in two hands, instead add twice the number subtracted from your attack rolls. You can’t add the bonus from Power Attack to the damage dealt with a light weapon (except with unarmed strikes or natural weapon attacks), even though the penalty on attack rolls still applies. (Normally, you treat a double weapon as a one-handed weapon and a light weapon. If you choose to use a double weapon like a two-handed weapon, attacking with only one end of it in a round, you treat it as a two-handed weapon.)

A fighter may select Power Attack as one of his fighter bonus feats.

The Eldritch Glaive makes melee attacks, so it deals melee damage, and Power Attack benefits 'all melee damage rolls' regardless of what type of weapon is making them. You would even be using the Eldritch Glaive in two hands, gaining double the penalty to hit as damage.

[dehro]

... The kind of person who uses not one, but two distinct forms of (likely taboo) magic that both involve making deals with strange entities for power. And one of them was Mephistopholes...
You did notice the 5 in wisdom, didn't you? :smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin:

The Eldritch Glaive makes melee attacks, so it deals melee damage, and Power Attack benefits 'all melee damage rolls' regardless of what type of weapon is making them. You would even be using the Eldritch Glaive in two hands, gaining double the penalty to hit as damage.

Yay!

[Troacctid]

It's not a two-handed weapon, so you don't get double returns, which makes Power Attack pretty inefficient. Also, you need 13 Strength? I'm definitely not a fan.

Your damage output is not going to be impressive. You're losing two levels to LA and another to Binder, which puts your Eldritch Blast way behind, and you're not getting BAB for those levels either, which nerfs your glaive, too. You won't get a second attack until ECL 11. You also get stonewalled by spell resistance until at least level 14. Not to mention you're squishy as hell, since you're down two hit dice and most of your HD are only d6s.

I don't know if you can afford a Binder dip. It seems extremely costly. Maybe at, like, the level 17-20 range somewhere, maybe? But any time before that is going to be shooting yourself in the foot something awful.

Karsites don't qualify for Able Learner, do they?

[Sagetim]

It's not a two-handed weapon, so you don't get double returns, which makes Power Attack pretty inefficient. Also, you need 13 Strength? I'm definitely not a fan.

Your damage output is not going to be impressive. You're losing two levels to LA and another to Binder, which puts your Eldritch Blast way behind, and you're not getting BAB for those levels either, which nerfs your glaive, too. You won't get a second attack until ECL 11. You also get stonewalled by spell resistance until at least level 14. Not to mention you're squishy as hell, since you're down two hit dice and most of your HD are only d6s.

I don't know if you can afford a Binder dip. It seems extremely costly. Maybe at, like, the level 17-20 range somewhere, maybe? But any time before that is going to be shooting yourself in the foot something awful.

Karsites don't qualify for Able Learner, do they?


They're a human subrace, so they get all the normal human racial benefits and also the ones that are listed in their template in tome of magic (which includes proficiency in martial weapons and I think like and medium armor too).

And yeah, I think you would be better off aiming for a blastlock than a glaive lock (and using the magic draining attacks as a benefit of someone getting into melee with you rather than trying to weaponize it). I'm not familiar the specifics of the glaive shape, does it get touch attacks? If it does, your BAB isn't as much of a problem. If it's normal attacks you would need Much higher strength (or a way to key it off something else, and I'm pretty sure you can't finesse a glaive).

If you want to go glaive and be able to hit things, you might want to consider some levels of fighter (Yes, I know, the caster level won't forgive you). The requirements to get into hellfire warlock are:
Skills: Intimidate 6 ranks, Knowledge (the planes) 12 ranks,
Spellcraft 6 ranks.
Language: Infernal.
Warlock Invocation: Must know brimstone blast or hellrime
blast.

You can get most of those locked up by warlock 6, the same time you would pick up hellrime or brimstone blast. The Knowledge (the planes) ranks are going to hurt as cross class skills, but since it was a class skill as a warlock, your max ranks are keyed off it having been a class skill. So you could sneak a build in like warlock 6/fighter 2/binder 1. Your warlock powers will hate you, but your hp will thank you and so will your BAB. And your saves. Well, your fort save. And you'll be ready to jump into hellfire from the get go. And when that's done, you'll be level 12, and effective warlock 9. Keep pumping warlock until you get vitrolic blast, and then you can swap between hellfire blasts and hellfire blasts and glaiving things and dumping into fighter levels so your bab will zoom up.

Sure, this build suggestion won't be like...a grand caster type. But it will be more like a fighter with a freaky weapon. To that end, you would want to swap your strength and charisma, so you can hit things harder and more frequently. Or something. I dunno, these other people know glaivelocks better.

[dehro]

Eldritch Glaive remains a touchattack, AFAIK.

[Troacctid]

I'm not familiar the specifics of the glaive shape, does it get touch attacks? If it does, your BAB isn't as much of a problem.

The to-hit bonus isn't important. It's the extra attacks. You want to hit +6 and +11 ASAP, because Eldritch Glaive is fairly pointless without them.


If you want to go glaive and be able to hit things, you might want to consider some levels of fighter (Yes, I know, the caster level won't forgive you).

I don't think a Fighter dip is viable with multiclass penalties in play. Also, giving up 1d6 eldritch blast damage and a lesser/greater invocation doesn't seem worth it even without the multiclass penalty. High-level invocations are quite good, and you need those d6s.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Eldritch Glaive creates a melee reach weapon that delivers melee touch attacks. It doesn't say anything about whether it's a light or one-handed or two-handed weapon, but if it was a light weapon it would say so. As-written it must default to strength for attack rolls because it does not say otherwise, meaning it's either a one-handed weapon or it's a two-handed weapon. In any case, a one-handed weapon can be wielded in two hands. As long as it's not a light weapon (which it's not), you can use it two-handed to get two-for-one Power Attack damage. I would shuffle your stats around to Str 17+1, Dex 14, Con 12+2, Int 9+1, Wis 5, Cha 16+2, if you're going for Eldritch Glaive, then you'll need to go all-out.

[Troacctid]

Eldritch Glaive creates a melee reach weapon that delivers melee touch attacks.

This is incorrect. It's a spell-like ability that uses melee touch attacks. It is not a weapon and it doesn't create a weapon. Heck, you don't even hold it in your hands--you can attack with it just fine even if both your hands are full.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

This is incorrect. It's a spell-like ability that uses melee touch attacks. It is not a weapon and it doesn't create a weapon. Heck, you don't even hold it in your hands--you can attack with it just fine even if both your hands are full.

Incorrect, invocations require somatic components and thus require at least one free hand to use.

Furthermore, the power's description states that you make attacks with it as though wielding a melee reach weapon. If you're wielding a melee weapon, you can choose whether to hold it in one or both hands.

Regardless of what arguments you make here about it, the matter is entirely in the hands of his DM anyway.

[Troacctid]

Incorrect, invocations require somatic components and thus require at least one free hand to use.

You can attack with the glaive if you quick-draw other weapons during the same action, or if you use Sudden Still to cast the invocation with your hands full.

[Sagetim]

This back and forth is why I mentioned the weapon like spells rules...but whatever >.>

Yeah, if you went with fighter levels...oh, right, Karsites have a favored class of Binder, not the regular human of 'any'. So, warlock 6 (not favored) + fighter 2 (not favored) = multiclass penalty of 10%. A bad plan for stacking on top of ecl.

So now, I think it's time to start digging through prestige classes, see if there's one with a full bab to accelerate your extra attacks. Eldritch Knight might work, since invocations have a spell level, but I think the rules specifically state that it has to be more generic than that for warlocks to jump into a prestige class not specifically designed for them. So, does anyone know of a prestige class that gets a full bab, advances spellcasting, and requires 'caster level' and not specific spells?

[Troacctid]

So now, I think it's time to start digging through prestige classes, see if there's one with a full bab to accelerate your extra attacks. Eldritch Knight might work, since invocations have a spell level, but I think the rules specifically state that it has to be more generic than that for warlocks to jump into a prestige class not specifically designed for them. So, does anyone know of a prestige class that gets a full bab, advances spellcasting, and requires 'caster level' and not specific spells?

There are none, unless you work with your DM to adapt a non-Warlock-friendly class or create a new one.

[dehro]

So..adaptation of things is never going to happen..The only thing my DM will change in the rules are the item creation mechanics, which don't come into play for another few levels at the very least... And which isn't this character's main thing anyway, at least for now.
I think I should probably get my level of binder only once I've got the prerequisites for hellfire warlock... In order Not to waste XP.. So, with 9 levels to play with and a prerequisite of 12 ranks in one skill, I think my best option is warlock 8/binder 1 and the next level to be hellfire? Is that somewhat correct?
My building-fu is so weak:smallfrown:
My original allocation...
STR. 9. +1 level=10
DEX. 12. =12
CON. 16 +2(racial adj.) =18
INT. 14. =14
WIS. 5. =5
CHA. 17 +2(racial adj.) +1 level=20

@Biffoniacus_Furiou. Let's say I take your suggestion of Str 17+1, Dex 14, Con 12+2, Int 9+1, Wis 5, Cha 16+2
Why 18 STR?... I feel like I should keep Con as high as possible, given the poor warlock hp dice...And I'm aiming to make him a face (competing with the aasimar cleric who is our current face)..hence the Cha score and tie in with naberius. Silly question, don't I need Int +1 to know infernal? I'm not swimming in skill points.. But maybe I can invest those in the language instead..

Also, how would you or anyone else select the feat progression? I don't think that with Wis 5 I can do without force of personality, I think I should take maximise SLA, possibly at least another Metamagic feat... Possibly Able learner for fluff and a modicum of versatility?
How does having more STR play into the feat progression and am I missing any other essential feats? Wouldn't taking weapon finesse serve to compensate for a lower STR score or are we talking about the pure damage output?
(you can probably tell my grasp on the stats relevance is slippery at best)

Edit: amongst other feats I'm looking into supernatural transformation, SLA focus, quicken SLA (though I'm not sure that would give me an extra attack in melee or an extra blast in ranged...Would It do either of those things?), mortalbane (though we seem to encounter lots of weird monsters so this may be too situational and Ineffective to spend a feat on),... I am somewhat ignorant on the melee feats and how to pick the right ones for this build.

[Sagetim]

So..adaptation of things is never going to happen..The only thing my DM will change in the rules are the item creation mechanics, which don't come into play for another few levels at the very least... And which isn't this character's main thing anyway, at least for now.
My original allocation...
STR. 9. +1 level=10
DEX. 12. =12
CON. 16 +2(racial adj.) =18
INT. 14. =14
WIS. 5. =5
CHA. 17 +2(racial adj.) +1 level=20

@Biffoniacus_Furiou. Let's say I take your suggestion of Str 17+1, Dex 14, Con 12+2, Int 9+1, Wis 5, Cha 16+2
Why 18 STR?... I feel like I should keep Con as high as possible, given the poor warlock hp dice...And I'm aiming to make him a face (competing with the aasimar cleric who is our current face)..hence the Cha score and tie in with naberius.

Also, how would you select the feat progression? I don't think I can do without force of personality, maximise SLA, possibly at least another Metamagic feat... How does having more STR play into the feat progression and am I missing any other essential feats? Wouldn't taking weapon finesse serve to compensate for a lower STR score or are we talking about the pure damage output?
(you can probably tell my grasp on the stats relevance is slippery at best)

Well, you're the one claiming you want to go melee build. I think you should stick to blasting from the back row and leave the glaives and fancy things to others (or take glaive shape as an emergency melee measure), since that would let you keep your charisma and face potential....then again, with 5 wisdom, I imagine you would get yourself and your party into more trouble than out as the party face >.>

[dehro]

Yeah, from an optimisation pov you're probably right... But I prefer to follow the idea I have for the character, even at the expense of his chances of survival...This one just strikes me as a reckless guy who comes up with harebrained plans and is enthusiastic and over-confident enough to get in close...Whether It's a wise thing to do or not.
I'm mostly trying to not make him suck altogether and give him something of a chance to shout "I did a thing!"
Also, I have amended my previous post with plenty of questions, should you feel inclined to answer further :smallbiggrin:

[Troacctid]

Assuming you're allowed to take it, Supernatural Transformation is very valuable before you have access to Vitriolic Blast, and goes down in value afterwards. Spell resistance can shut you down hard if you don't have a way to bypass it. It also lets you skip Concentration, if you don't plan on using your other invocations during combat or other distracting situations. Oh, and it frees you up to take Noxious Blast instead of Vitriolic Blast if you so choose; I know the damage from Vitriolic Blast is nice, but that save-or-lose on Noxious Blast can be deadly.

Ability Focus is not usually worth the feat slot. You can do better. Similar deal for Weapon Finesse and Improved Initiative.

Mortalbane is a decent feat for boosting your damage, mainly because it doesn't have prerequisites, so you can take it in a low-level slot when it's not competing with more powerful high-level feats. I like it better than most of the meta-SLA feats because it's easier to qualify for and it has more uses per day. Note that it applies to a full round's worth of Eldritch Glaive attacks (as do meta-SLA feats). Of the meta-SLAs, Maximize and Quicken are the best. Quicken is good with Eldritch Glaive, as it gives you a full round's worth of attacks as a swift action. 3/day is a real restriction, and high-level feat slots are valuable, so non-glaivelocks don't always want them, but if you are investing in Eldritch Glaive, then Maximize and Quicken can put in some serious work for you.

Knowledge Devotion could be a consideration, maybe? It's hard to invest in all the Knowledge skills with the Warlock's limited skill points, especially when they're not all class skills and you have to dedicate points to Concentration and Spellcraft and Use Magic Device, but even the minimum roll is still a +1 insight bonus to attack and damage, so the low-end isn't too bad. It's not great, and I don't usually end up taking it if I'm not going Urban Savant (which, FWIW, is a fantastic prestige class if you are not a glaivelock), but it's worth thinking about if it fits the character concept.

I tend to prefer Nymph's Kiss over Able Learner. It has a similar function of boosting your skill points, but it also gives you some extra bonuses to saving throws and Charisma stuff. They go well together, though, so if you want to put some focus on skills, you could take both.

For a chaotic good Warlock, I am personally a fan of Obtain Familiar plus Celestial Familiar. Picking up a coure eladrin adds some pretty sweet utility in the form of a nigh-undetectable incorporeal scout who can cast divination spells at will, speak and understand all languages, reveal concealed enemies, share all your skill ranks (effectively letting you roll twice and take the better result on a lot of skill checks), and give you a mobile Magic Circle against Evil--not to mention using wands and even tossing around a few Magic Missiles in a pinch. It's pretty good value for your feats, although some builds have pretty specific feat requirements and can't afford to spend their slots that way.

Extra Invocation is also always a fine choice, if you're ever not sure what to take. Gets more attractive as you level up, since extra lesser invocations are pretty nice (especially if you're stuck wasting a slot on Brimstone Blast so you can get into Hellfire Warlock). It can be hard to find space in the build for it, though.

Once you hit Warlock 12, Craft Wondrous Item should become an attractive option, for obvious reasons.

The main issue with Force of Personality is that you need to invest in Charisma. You might not actually want to invest in Charisma if you're not using invocations that call for a save. A lot of Warlocks don't. But assuming you are putting a decent score in Charisma and a 5 in Wisdom, then...yeah...I can see how it would be a necessary evil. It would be a good feat to take at 1st level, before you meet the prerequisites for your other feats.

[dehro]

Knowledge Devotion I am only allowed if I declare my character to be a follower of a God with the knowledge domain. Since I don't know yet what will become of him after he runs through hellfire warlock classes (assuming he survives it) I don't think I can pick it.
Nymph kiss was frowned upon back when I played my first warlock and would probably be banned

Also, druid companions were either rolled for or picked from a shortlist... I seriously doubt I'd get to pick the familiar of my choice, especially if it happens to be a massive (powerplaying level) boost to my character's game

So.. If I get this right, if I maximise the Eldritch Blast, everything I do with it is maximised? Say I use chilling tentacles (or will when I gain access to it), then the tentacles give maximised damage for their duration?

[dehro]

so.. I've adjusted my stats as follows:
STR 10
DEX 16
CON 16
INT 12
WIS 5
CHA 20

I've gone warlock 8, binder 1
BAB +6, +1
FORT 7
REFL 5
WILL 13 (8+5 from CHA instead of 8-3 from WIS, thanks to Force of personality. this doesn't apply always, but in the majority of cases and is played as such by the people I play with, so I might as well list it this way)
with the following talents:
Force of Personality,
Maximise SLA
Quicken SLA
Mortalbane
Supernatural Transformation

chosen invocations are
hellrime blast (for hellfire later on)
see the unseen (because I don't want to be the only shmuck carrying a torch and making a target of himself)
eldritch glaive

walk unseen
fell flight

flight seems a necessity, but with poor spot and listen checks, I might want to eschew scouting duties, and pick something else instead of walk unseen.. suggestions are welcome


does the above make some sense?

[ShurikVch]

Then, if you need you can shatter anything:miko:Ahem!..
Objects weighing more than 1 pound per your level are not affected

[Socratov]

:miko:Ahem!..


Baleful Utterance(CArc p132)
<Invocation[sonic], VS, 1StdAct, Close-range,
Instantaneous, SR applies>
– By speaking a syllable of Dark Speech, the
invoker chooses one of the following to occur:
a) all non-magic glass, crystal, etc., in a 5’
radius Burst that weigh less than 1 lb/lvl
are shattered. An attended object gets a
Will save to negate. Otherwise, no save.
b) a single solid object weighing up to 10
pounds per level can be shattered. An
attended object gets a Will save to negate.
If an attended object was destroyed, then the
creature touching it must make a Fortitude
save of be Dazed for 1 round and Deafened
for 1 minute.
Effective Spell Level: 2nd.

formatting not copied, emphasis mine. (10 pounds for 8 levels is 80 pounds, ought to be enough to shatter a door right?)

other then that you might want to be creative (hard I know) and shatter objects in parts, even if The DM says they are attended objects (like the stones in a castlewall).

[ShurikVch]

formatting not copied, emphasis mine. (10 pounds for 8 levels is 80 pounds, ought to be enough to shatter a door right?)It's questionable.
Even interior door can weight about 55 - 88 lb, but sturdy entrance door may weight over 550 lb.

[Socratov]

As a side question.. Hellfire is described as burning through pretty much everything including stuff that is immune to fire and objects... Does That mean I could actually hurt constructs like golems as well? Because normally a warlock is pretty much useless against them..


It's questionable.
Even interior door can weight about 55 - 88 lb, but sturdy entrance door may weight over 550 lb.

Shatter the hinges then. If hte hinges weigh more then 80 pounds per piece I'm calling shenanigans by the DM

[ShurikVch]

Shatter the hinges then. If hte hinges weigh more then 80 pounds per piece I'm calling shenanigans by the DMUsual answer for such attempts: "The hinges are inseparable part of the door, they have no independent stats. No, you can't target them with a spell!"

[dehro]

yeah, I can see the DM give me that kind of answer..

[dehro]

wow.. I just realised that I'm going to need a spreadsheet to figure out all the variables of striking with the eldritch blast and eldritch glaive, depending on use of feats, items and invocations...

a bit of a nightmare.. :smalleek:

for instance, I have a greater chasuble of fell power that adds 2d6
I have a warlock's sceptre that adds a nr of d6 depending on charges used
I have gloves of eldritch admixture...

am I right in assuming I can't use all of these together in the same round/attack??? or even only 2 of them?
and that's not taking into account eldritch glaive, (do all attacks get all the bonuses if I make 2 attacks because of BAB?)
and then there's quicken and maximise.. and mortalbane...
do all quickened attacks get the bonus dice from items and not? or just the first? or the first and the third?
I'm going to nead a spreadsheet to organize my spreadsheets :eek:
oh.. and then there's the remote chance of critting.. what goes double and what gets added later?.. sheesh..

[Mr Adventurer]

Re: multiclassing

Isn't the thing about Karsites that they get the traits listed in addition to those for a Human? So they have favored class (Binder) AND favored class (any)?

[dehro]

Re: multiclassing

Isn't the thing about Karsites that they get the traits listed in addition to those for a Human? So they have favored class (Binder) AND favored class (any)?

it's not "in addition to" but "except as noted here".. and under those "notes" is the listing of a favourite class: binder, so no, if I were the DM I wouldn't allow that reading, nor do I expect mine will.
relevant quote

• Human Traits: Karsites possess all the traits of humans as
described in the Player’s Handbook, except as noted here.

[Troacctid]

You should have 3 least and 2 lesser invocations, not 2 least and 3 lesser. (You don't get your third lesser invocation until Warlock 10.) Also, Quicken SLA is not a legal choice, as it requires a caster level of 10 and you only have 8.


for instance, I have a greater chasuble of fell power that adds 2d6
I have a warlock's sceptre that adds a nr of d6 depending on charges used
I have gloves of eldritch admixture...

am I right in assuming I can't use all of these together in the same round/attack??? or even only 2 of them?
Greater Chasuble of Fell Power is constantly active and will apply to all your blasts.

Warlock's Scepter and Gloves of Eldritch Admixture both require swift actions to activate. You only get one swift action per round, so you can't use both of them at once.


and that's not taking into account eldritch glaive, (do all attacks get all the bonuses if I make 2 attacks because of BAB?)
Warlock's Scepter applies to the next eldritch blast you make in the round. Eldritch glaive makes two attacks, but it is still only one eldritch blast, so the bonus applies to both attacks. The same is true for Gloves of Eldritch Admixture.

The chasuble applies to all your eldritch blasts all the time.


and then there's quicken and maximise.. and mortalbane...
do all quickened attacks get the bonus dice from items and not? or just the first? or the first and the third?
Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure Quicken Spell-Like Ability was updated to require a swift action, meaning you can't use it with Warlock's Scepter or Gloves of Eldritch Admixture.


oh.. and then there's the remote chance of critting.. what goes double and what gets added later?.. sheesh..
Extra damage dice above the base damage dice are not multiplied. So as an 8th level Warlock, your critical hits will deal 4d6 extra damage, regardless of any Warlock's Scepters or Chasubles of Fell Power or whatnot.

[dehro]

on another topic.. can spell resistance be switched off? what if I want or need to be healed more than by using spell healing?
can I decide to "take" a spell or is it so ingrained in the karsite identity/physiology that spell resistance is fixed? are there rules to that effect??
(yes, I know that potions work regardless, as do magic items..)

[Troacctid]

You can lower your spell resistance for 1 round as a standard action.


A creature can voluntarily lower its spell resistance. Doing so is a standard action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity. Once a creature lowers its resistance, it remains down until the creature’s next turn. At the beginning of the creature’s next turn, the creature’s spell resistance automatically returns unless the creature intentionally keeps it down (also a standard action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity).

[dehro]

You should have 3 least and 2 lesser invocations, not 2 least and 3 lesser. (You don't get your third lesser invocation until Warlock 10.)

Also, Quicken SLA is not a legal choice, as it requires a caster level of 10 and you only have 8

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure Quicken Spell-Like Ability was updated to require a swift action, meaning you can't use it with Warlock's Scepter or Gloves of Eldritch Admixture.

Thanks for the breakdown...
As for Quicken.. There seem to be 3 sources, book of vile darkness, savage species and monster manual..
Which of them should I consider? It seems they all say slightly different things..
The first allows for one use only, unrestricted by caster level as a free action, the second does restrict the caster level but still counts it as a free action, the third calls it a swift action and restricts it by caster level. What is the appropriate source to consider?

Should it indeed not be a legal choice, what other feat (Metamagic or otherwise) would you suggest I take instead?
Also, does "haste"or a similar spell grant me an extra Glaive attack? It's not an actual weapon nor an actual melee attack, yet it's still a weapon once it's invoked and still grants AoOs...so it's questionable...
P.S. Good catch on the hellfire being lesser and not Least, no idea why I thought it would be least... I'll pick something else

[torrasque666]

Book of Vile Darkness and Savage Species are 3.0 The monster manual version is likely the most recent.

[Troacctid]

Should it indeed not be a legal choice, what other feat (Metamagic or otherwise) would you suggest I take instead?
I dunno. When in doubt, Extra Invocation?

If you took Celestial Familiar, there's actually only one option for it available to a CG character, so you shouldn't be in any danger of having to roll randomly, unless your DM waives the alignment restrictions. And if he does, your other options are a lantern archon or a musteval guardinal, both of which are also very good (and in fact I think the lantern archon is probably even better than the coure eladrin), so you can't go too far wrong.


Also, does "haste"or a similar spell grant me an extra Glaive attack? It's not an actual weapon nor an actual melee attack, yet it's still a weapon once it's invoked and still grants AoOs...so it's questionable...
Haste only works on a full attack action. Eldritch Glaive requires a full round action, but it's not a full attack, so it doesn't work with Haste.

[dehro]

uhm.. do I need to pick the Hellrime blast (or the other one) that is a prerequisite for hellfire warlock before leveling up into it, or can I take it up as I level up?
my instinct says the first option is the correct one, but maybe the important thing is that one slot is dedicated to the invocation when I go hellfire.. namely at the time I level up.

also, what happens if later I want to swap out hellrime blast? do I lose my hellfire warlock abilities and bonuses?? I'm guessing I'll be stuck with it until the end.. but it pays to be sure.

[torrasque666]

uhm.. do I need to pick the Hellrime blast (or the other one) that is a prerequisite for hellfire warlock before leveling up into it, or can I take it up as I level up?
my instinct says the first option is the correct one, but maybe the important thing is that one slot is dedicated to the invocation when I go hellfire.. namely at the time I level up.

also, what happens if later I want to swap out hellrime blast? do I lose my hellfire warlock abilities and bonuses?? I'm guessing I'll be stuck with it until the end.. but it pays to be sure.
Prerequisites must be met before taking the level, as you take the class before you gain any abilities, skills, feats, spells, etc.

the latter part is....tricky. that's something to talk to your DM about.

[dehro]

heh.. I figured..

so my selection of invocations is as follows:
Least:
see the unseen, eldritch glaive, baleful utterance
I have a rod of eldritch power which I will charge with eldritch spear shape for the occasional sniper job...
Lesser:
hellrime blast, fell flight

feats are:
Maximise SLA
Mortalbane
Force of personality
Supernatural transformation

I'm still stuck with picking the last feat.. either metamagic, melee oriented (with the limitations due to eldritch glaive not being an actual glaive) or something different altogether...
any suggestions? (extra invocation seams weak now I can only use it for a least invocation and I've got most of the good ones already)

also, with BAB of 6 and 1, it seems to me that eldritch glaive is going to need some high rolls on my part, at least on the second attack.. with no Str bonus, there's nothing here to raise the odds of hitting.. :smallconfused:

[Socratov]

snip

also, with BAB of 6 and 1, it seems to me that eldritch glaive is going to need some high rolls on my part, at least on the second attack.. with no Str bonus, there's nothing here to raise the odds of hitting.. :smallconfused:

remember you are hitting at touch ac

[dehro]

remember you are hitting at touch ac

I also have a reputation for rolling high on irrelevant skill checks and low on spot, and combat rolls:smallbiggrin:
My dice hate me :smallfrown:

[Troacctid]

Hellrime Blast does have the potential to give them a -2 penalty against the second attack, assuming the first one hits.

[dehro]

true...
I do believe that by now I owe you a pint or two, should you ever come to Italy, lol

my character so far.. almost completed actually (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=554472)

[dehro]

heu... 3 stupid questions...

1) when I maximize my eldritch blast, I get 24 points of damage from the 4d6.. do I also get 12 for the chasuble, 12 for mortalbane if applied and so on, or do I still have to roll for those?
it's either
24(4d6 maxed)+2d6(chasuble)+2d6(mortalbane)= 24+x(x being 3>x<25)
or 24+12+12= 48 straight up.

2) stuff like Hellrime blast and sickening blast are listed as having casting times of 1 standard action.. is that included in the standard action of the eldritch blast, or do I need to wait 2 rounds if I want to blast someone with both things?

3) if I apply supernatural transformation in order to change the eldritch blast into a supernatural ability and avoid spell resistance, can I still apply maximize SLA, which applies to SLAs and not to supernatural abilities??
my DM seems to think I cannot...
Also, I can't use the fancy buckler on account of not being proficient with shields

[dehro]

So, supernatural transformation is not a legal choice on account of how the eldritch blast is not an innate SLA but an acquired one.
My build is being picked apart piece by piece:smalleek::smallfrown:

[Socratov]

heu... 3 stupid questions...

1) when I maximize my eldritch blast, I get 24 points of damage from the 4d6.. do I also get 12 for the chasuble, 12 for mortalbane if applied and so on, or do I still have to roll for those?
it's either
24(4d6 maxed)+2d6(chasuble)+2d6(mortalbane)= 24+x(x being 3>x<25)
or 24+12+12= 48 straight up.
If I remember well (but afb right now) the added dice aren't added as bonus damage, but rather modify the blast to do more d6 damage, yeah, maximise does (if applied last in order of application) maximise them all

2) stuff like Hellrime blast and sickening blast are listed as having casting times of 1 standard action.. is that included in the standard action of the eldritch blast, or do I need to wait 2 rounds if I want to blast someone with both things?
they are both essences used to modify the Eldritch Blast and thus their casting time takes the palce of the EB cating time (not that it matters much)

3) if I apply supernatural transformation in order to change the eldritch blast into a supernatural ability and avoid spell resistance, can I still apply maximize SLA, which applies to SLAs and not to supernatural abilities??
my DM seems to think I cannot...Nope. Even if you can use the gloves to turn EB into a Su ability, then it becomes a Su ability and not a SLA.

Also, I can't use the fancy buckler on account of not being proficient with shields
Nope, they require proficiency. then again, you can use them, but incur a penalty...

[Troacctid]

So, supernatural transformation is not a legal choice on account of how the eldritch blast is not an innate SLA but an acquired one.
My build is being picked apart piece by piece:smalleek::smallfrown:

Yeah, I thought that might happen. It's the more standard ruling. Would have been solid if you coulda gotten away with it though.

[dehro]

indeed..

sadly now I am again in a pickle as to what talent to pick in its stead...

[dehro]

reading handbook, I am a little confused about an application of "extra invocation" and "flee the scene" as described



The Dead Walk (CArc, "active"): As Animate Dead, but you can also forego the material component to create free summons out of your enemies for 1 minute/level. [...]
"Active" is in quotations because this is not a combat spell; this is something you do during your downtime, either after a combat or between adventures entirely. As a result, this becomes a mediocre to bad choice for Chameleon Warlocks, but only because it becomes an AWESOME choice for an "Extra Invocation" feat using your floating feat; take the corpses of your choosing to town with you, get some rest, wake up the next day, select Extra Invocation (The Dead Walk), animate all the dead you need, and then switch the feat out the next day when you're done; the undead remain, loyal and under your command, and you have an extra invocation slot for something else that you wouldn't have normally!

Flee the Scene (CArc, active): At-will short-range Dimension Door that leaves a Major Image behind when you use it. Useful for all the reasons that Freedom of Movement is useful: because you're probably not the best grappler in the game; because "paralysis" is one full-round action away from "coup de grace" (and spell-like abilities can be activated when paralyzed), because one way or another, you can fly (meaning you can escape in all three dimensions); and because by level 20, this gets you 75 feet as a standard action, allowing you to easily outpace most enemies that you couldn't with your normal move/fly speed. This is for that Warlock that just doesn't want to die.
the two underscored bits are the ones that confuse the crap out of me..

1) floating invocation?? what now? I can swap invocations around every day and am not stuck with just the ones I have chosen? is THAT how extra invocation works?

2)I am pretty sure that most if not all invocations have a somatic component, flee the scene does for certain.. so.. how do I activate it when paralised??

given how I play with rule lawyers, I fear that these two things don't really hold up... or am I missing things?

[Nifft]

(snip)

1) floating invocation?? what now? I can swap invocations around every day and am not stuck with just the ones I have chosen? is THAT how extra invocation works?

2)I am pretty sure that most if not all invocations have a somatic component, flee the scene does for certain.. so.. how do I activate it when paralised??

given how I play with rule lawyers, I fear that these two things don't really hold up... or am I missing things?

"Chameleon Warlock" means that you take two levels of the Chameleon PrC.

This gives you a floating bonus feat -- a feat slot which lets you choose a different feat every day.

That's how you get the floating invocation.

[dehro]

"Chameleon Warlock" means that you take two levels of the Chameleon PrC.

This gives you a floating bonus feat -- a feat slot which lets you choose a different feat every day.

That's how you get the floating invocation.

gotcha.. not really compatible with my build anymore (changing it up at this stage would cause my DM an aneurysm :smallamused:)

[Troacctid]

Flee the Scene does have somatic components and cannot be used while paralyzed. The error is corrected in the more recent version of the handbook in question.

[dehro]

I thought so...
In The meantime, 3 failed saves later, one of which failed by my barbarian lunatic companion who got charmed into attacking me, I fell sickened, shaken and trying to fly away, only to discover that the Damned barbarian had been made to fly prior to being charmed.
Two swift power attacks to my back, and all the planning of the world concerning this character went down the drain... In the second session of use.
I am starting to think that my dice hate me, my DM is toying with me or, more likely, I really suck at this game.