Guitars & related gear

[FdL]

Never seen a thread like this one around here, but it would be cool to talk about guitars and gear like amps and pedals.

As I've said before, I have a Fender Jazzmaster 85 japanese reissue which I love. I dreamt for years about having one of these guitars, and found this one used, for a price I could afford. I love its sound and how it plays, it's the best guitar I've owned (which is not saying much because I own many cheap guitars).

I also like my Pro-Co Rat pedal. It's the vintage model, but I'm unsure if it's the actual vintage thing or it's just some kind of reissue with the same design.

I still think it would be cool to own a Rickenbacker, any of the classic models or even a 4001 bass. I think they're masterworks, and so they are really expensive and probably too good for me. But it would be really cool to have one.

In truth, I'd own hundreds of guitars if I could afford them (I mean, I could buy a lot of guitars but mostly cheap ones). I love how each instrument is totally different. I must say though that I tend to prefer more original stuff, I actually don't like Strats or Les Pauls a lot, though I like Teles. I think I'd like one of those b&w Danelectro DCs.

Well, which guitar/s do you own and what would be your dream guitar?

[Amotis]

I don't see how this is media related Fdl. :smalltongue:

I too have a Jazzmaster. A '62 Reissue Fender Jazzmaster. Ocean Turquoise body, rosewood neck. :smallbiggrin: Two main reasons why I got this guitar: Loveless and Nels Cline. 'Course Cline has like a '59 Vintage...but still. I got it used and cheap. Which is good 'cause Jazzmasters ranges pretty high. I acutally play 10's, which seem to cause people to yell at me "10's on a JAZZMASTER!?!? NO WAI!" but I don't have problems. Buzzstop. I also have an Yamaha Classical, old aged (40 years I think), and sounds like a muse. I use it too much.

Dream Guitar: Um...'59 Vintage Jazzmaster I suppose for an electric, I'm actually pretty happy with my reissue but vintage masters get a sound that nothing can match. They're just really really expensive... For my classical however, which I suppose needs updating, I would like a certain Trez by Juan Hernandez. They're like $5,000...:smalltongue:

Fender Pro Junior Combo Amp: My Amp. Small 15w tube amp that just sings with my jazzmaster hooked up to it. Simple amp...simple knobs...sounds like heaven. But the greatest thing is that it has a quite but present character. Jazzmasters are known for their unique kinda quirkiness that lends itself to experimental stuff. My amp doesn't get in the way of that sound. Infact, I've made a point, amp and effects and recording and producing-wise, to never really mess with the jazzmaster style unless the song called for it. The amp is great, small, simple, cheap-ish, and lends itself to thousands of styles and sounds without getting in the way.

Dream Amp: Matchless DC-30. 'Nuff said.

My board:
Holy Grail Reverb: What an awesome company. Look at any decent indie or post rock guitarist and his has this pedal. And in hopes of becoming a decent indie and post rock guitarist, I bought one.
Boss DD-2 digital delay: Duh.
Boss FV-500L Volume Pedal: Duh. Acutally I'm looking for a new one because I think I almost broke this...><
Klon Centaur: Awesome pedal. Not many people use it acutally but I get really great OD. OD, tube amp, jazzmaster = beauty.

Oh, and not a dream guitar, but I want me an esquire. Deerhoof acutally has one too! That was a :smalleek: whoa for me.

[[..]Stigma[..]]

Amotis and I were talking about this actually :smallbiggrin: EDIT: Ack! Simu-poster!!!! hehe

My current set up:

Godin Radiator [silver maple core/poplar wings] w/ model SD rock maple neck w/ maple fingerboard [24 med-jumbo frets] (replaced the stock rosewood FB rock maple neck)

into my effects line (not awe inspiring, but I can get some other worldly sounds outta them):

Digitech X-Series Digital Delay
Digitech X-Series Stereo Phase
Digitech X-Series Compressor/Sustainer

into my amp:

Roland 90 watt blues cube

My Dream set up:

Fender strat '52 reissue, rock maple neck w/ maple fingerboard (23-24 frets, "c" shape) w/ EMG SA pickup setup, & shortened trem bar.

Into my dream effects line:

2x Digital delays (one for echo, the other for solo delay when needed)
1x Stereo phase
1x compressor/sustainer
1x tone driver
1x synth wah

Into my dream amplifier set up:

DG103 HIWATT head atop a 4x12 Speaker cabinet

[Amotis]

Isn't your dream amp just Pink Floyd's set up? :smalltongue:

My dream effects board will just be adding a bunch more cool offbrand pedals or...

this:
http://www.roland.com/products/com/VG-99/images/top_L.jpg

and

this:
http://www.roland.com/products/com/FC-300/images/top_L.jpg

and a rack or something...

:smallbiggrin:

Oh...and then there's this (http://www.maurysmusic.com/inc/sdetail/14952) guitar. I wonder how it sounds...:smallconfused:

[FdL]

Amotis, I use 10s too in my Jazzmaster. I have the original bridge, and it does buzz some, but it's not that bad. I didn't think it uncommon to put 10s in this guitar...It calls for a deeper, more muscular tone than lighter gauges can offer, I think.

Me too, I fell in love with this guitar because of MbV. But I don't do the tremolo bar thing, I'm a tuning/intonation freak and I'm afraid this would be a pain to fix. So it's locked down :p
Oh, other person that made me want one of these is J. Mascis, of course :smallbiggrin:
EDIT: Um, how could I forget...Ira Kaplan, of course.

There are a lot of cool indie artists out there who use Jazzmasters. It's just such a special guitar!

I looked up the Godin Radiator guitar and it looks really nice. I agree with Amotis in that I'm put off by the Les Paul type body shape. But this guitar looks really nice.

The rest of my setup is not very good but I got used to it. I have my old trusty Boss ME-30 multiple effects unit, and some of them are actually pretty decent.

My amp is a 15w Marshall Valvestate. I like its sound but I guess I'd like a Fender-style amp too, for a change. Lately with the Jazzmaster I like playing mostly clean and as twangy as possible. If I had the money I'd buy one of those small 15w Vox amps, which I'm guessing would be like something in the middle of both sounds (correct me if I'm wrong).

Which cheap brand with a similar style to the Vox amps can you recommend? I'm thinking something bright but meaty too...I should get my amp checked too, it's making a slightly cracked overtone sometimes.

Hey, Amotis, what do you use the volume pedal for? I mean in an artistic way, other than controlling output volume, I learned this swelling effect by rising volume from silence which takes out the attack and sounds kinda like a violin...I think I learned it from R.E.M.'s Automatic...or maybe from Luna...It's probably no secret :p

[Amotis]

I've always heard people preaching 11's and 12's for Jazzmasters so the strings don't slip out or move about. And I use my bar. :smalltongue: It does mess up the intonation...but I love the dirty nature of it. Very cool with OD.

Yo La Tango + Dino Jr = Indie Icons. Duh they play jazzmasters. :smallamused:

I really hear nothing beats a vox. I would stay away from the '80s and '90s models, however, because I hear that they're kinda...unreleable and such. I know Korg took over Vox sometime in the 90's and made a '63 reissue...and I've heard really good things about those. But I don't know if there was a drop in price.

I mean...vox is really at the top of their game. When you have purists calling the name of Vox...you know it's something good. I can't really name anything else that has the "vox sound." I'll ask around though. But if you say bright but meaty, I mean you don't need a vox for that. Vox's are good all around but very pure clean stuff. It's tube amps at their best really. But if you want a Vox...the Vox Neodog will get you that bright fendery but still vox sound (too much wattage for me but iono what you like).

Volume swells? Yeah, those are cool. I learned that from lap steel players. :smallcool: Very cool sounds. I usually use it with a strange combo with EQ and tone knobs. It really brings out strange lines when you suddenly mess with the treble and bass knobs which raising or lowering the volume, getting this really....umm kinda almost voice switching timbre out of it.

[FdL]

Ahhh of course...11's & 12's... :s That's kind too much, but I'd try it...I know Peter Buck uses really heavy gauges.



I mean...vox is really at the top of their game. When you have purists calling the name of Vox...you know it's something good. I can't really name anything else that has the "vox sound." I'll ask around though. But if you say bright but meaty, I mean you don't need a vox for that. Vox's are good all around but very pure clean stuff. It's tube amps at their best really. But if you want a Vox...the Vox Neodog will get you that bright fendery but still vox sound (too much wattage for me but iono what you like).


I don't think I'd get something with much more than 20w...If I get a 30w amp I'd probably have it turned too low...I mean, my practice room here is not too big and I'm not for self-inflicted tinnitus :p (ref. "the man who was too loud")
Plus I really don't know why but big brand gear has gotten awfully expensive here in Argentina (other than for dollar price and inflation, that is). So all I see in shops in my town are local brands, or obscure asian stuff. There's also Laneys. Are those any good? I don't know too much besides the bigger brands.



Volume swells? Yeah, those are cool. I learned that from lap steel players. :smallcool: Very cool sounds. I usually use it with a strange combo with EQ and tone knobs. It really brings out strange lines when you suddenly mess with the treble and bass knobs which raising or lowering the volume, getting this really....umm kinda almost voice switching timbre out of it.

Sounds interesting. I'm going to try it :p Hey, it would be too cool to hear what you mean. Not to mention playing with you. We should make a virtual collaborative band and write stuff together. Hahaha. Crazier stuff has been done :p


Ohhh, and speaking of guitars, have you seen that virtual guitar from Line 6? I think that's going to be a trend. It sounds great concept wise and as an actual guitar. I'd get one of those because I love having lots of alternatives for recording. Plus you can do alternative tunings and all. That FX unit you posted probably does something like it. That one looks fabulous! (I feel like I'm in the 80's with my multi FX:smalltongue: )

[Penguinsushi]

Wow. you guys sound like you have some pretty elaborate setups. I've never really had all that much. I've been playing for something like 13 years now, but I've never had all that much 'gear'.

I have a Seagull acoustic that I usually play when I'm just playing by myself or when I've played with a friend of mine at some coffeehouses.

I have a Gibson SG (that I just got for christmas :smallsmile:) that I play whenever I want to play electric. It's a nice guitar.

http://www.penguinsushi.com/pages/Gallery/images/60.jpg
I have an ancient effects pedal for it (that should probably be dead as I've actually made it pop and smoke. Little incident where i reversed the polarity on the ac adapter by mistake...), but I generally only use it for its active EQ. I have an old peavey special 212 transtube amp that I love, but it sounds best running through the aforementioned EQ. I'm actually wanting to get a BOSS EQ pedal, but haven't gotten around to it yet.

I do often plug my SG into a little Behringer soundboard that has a line-in to my iMac, where I can put all kinds of effects onto it using programs like GarageBand.

I also have a Guild 12 string, a Fender Duo-Sonic electric and an old Alvarez acoustic that I don't play much anymore. Occassionally I bust out the 12 string, but it's so hard to keep strings on it and keep it in tune...

~PS

[Amotis]

Laney's? I've heard they break easily (which is hell for tube amps). And are really for the classic rock/blues sound. Not good, I say.

See if your dealers will special order...that might help.

Yeah, I don't play anything above 30. Too loud. Tone goes out the window. Or won't come out. Depending on the amp.

I've heard about the line 6 stuff. Seen a few too (they certainly stand out :smallwink: ) and the concept sounds cool...but I wonder how close they got it. It is a first attempt, however, and you're right, it'll probably become the next big thing.

@Penguinsushi - I have to admit, I've always hated how SG's look like. But your naked one is quite sexy. :smallamused:

Also...man you need to get off of Garageband. Anything...something...I know they ain't cheap, but it'll do wonders. Make you realize why mac's put 'em free on their computers.

Oh, and how are Seagulls? I plan on buying a good non-classical acoustic one day and I've looked at a lot of brands.

[FdL]

The problem I've had with being used to play with my 15w amp is when we got together in a rehearsal place where they had bigger amps, and found out what I have setup in my fx unit sounds different in a bigger amp, as it's not pushing it :S
So for that reason alone I'm thinking of getting a new 30w amp...

I love SGs too! Yours looks especially nice, Penguinsushi. Congratulations!

Tanya Donelly from Throwing Muses played a lot of SGs in Belly, mostly from Guild IIRC, and they ruled, they looked really neat too. She had a yellow one and a pale pink one. The body might have been slightly fatter. Ohhh, and I love the sounds Gary Louris from The Jayhawks gets from his.

I love the biting crunchy sound of an SG. I prefer it to an LP, though those are real classics, and so a reference for what an electric guitar sounds like (ie, "rawk!!!!!" :))

[Penguinsushi]

@Penguinsushi - I have to admit, I've always hated how SG's look like. But your naked one is quite sexy. :smallamused:

Also...man you need to get off of Garageband. Anything...something...I know they ain't cheap, but it'll do wonders. Make you realize why mac's put 'em free on their computers.

Oh, and how are Seagulls? I plan on buying a good non-classical acoustic one day and I've looked at a lot of brands.

Really? I like Garageband's simplicity for recording, etc. The only complaint I have about it is that I sometimes (very rarely) get a little lag or delay. But my 2gb ram generally keeps it pretty snappy. I do have a copy of Logic Express, but I've only been about toenail deep into it. I've been told I should learn it more.

I'm not big on guitar effects as a rule though. I like a good array of distortions sounds, but apart from that...

Personally, I love Seagull guitars. They tend to have a very mellow sound, which i really like (esp with the solid non-varnished top mine has). They are somehow related to several other companies like Godin and Simon & Patrick - which I've also heard good things about. A friend of mine has an S&P that sounds pretty awesome...

~PS

[Amotis]

Yeah, I'm having to constantly put my fender on a stool or something so I can hear it. I don't really need a 30w...my 15w is fine. I'm just worried I might loose my tone or style if I go any higher, my style isn't loud and I don't want to turn it up just to get the tone I want. Sans the matchless, of course.

edito - Garageband just is really bare bones for me. Even for just recording. At least for me. I have something pretty high end so I guess I'm spoiled and I do use it for things outside of recording. But I hear going to something higher, even Logic Express, will improve the recording quality quite a bit.

How high is action for the Seagulls?

[Penguinsushi]

edito - Garageband just is really bare bones for me. Even for just recording. At least for me. I have something pretty high end so I guess I'm spoiled and I do use it for things outside of recording. But I hear going to something higher, even Logic Express, will improve the recording quality quite a bit.

How high is action for the Seagulls?

Yeah, that might be a weakness of mine. I tend to prefer the simplest possible solution. I may 'outgrow' it eventually. We'll see. I appreciate the advice though. :smallsmile:

The action on my guitar is pretty good - where good == shallow and with a fairly small degree of variance from 1st fret to 12th. I'm not sure what the exact ratio is. It's not as low as Fender acoustics (i swear, my sister has one that plays like an electric), but it plays easily enough for me (and I like the sound a lot better).

~PS

[FdL]

I have my Marshall on a little table too :smallbiggrin: I guess it sounded weird on the floor. When I just got it I went crazy with the EQ looking for a god setup. It lacked treble or something. Then I put it on this small table where it fits perfectly, as it has a small tray below it to put the fx unit and cables :) And now it sounds like I want it too, must be a matter of sound projection.

I'm really into FX, I'd have zillions of those if left to my compulsive buying.

I used to play with more distortion and FX when I started, I had discovered Pixies and Breeders, and MbV and shoegazer, so I was into that. I think at some point I could play all of the Lush albums from start to finish. Especially the last one which is great.

Then lately I use effects more subtly. I prefer to build on a clean tone with a little compression and a little reverb to round it up. I like to set the pitch shifter to Detune, which puts the wet signal in the same pitch as the clean one, but as it has a slight processing delay, it's like a very soft slightly fattening chorus effect. Which always reminds me of The dB's, go figure.

I also cannot really remember what was the setup I used for the lead guitar when I recorded a cover of Throwing Muses' Surf Cowboy. It sounded slightly watery, but full bodied. Probably some phasing.

Something that I've ALWAYS wanted is some kind of rotary speaker emulator, to sound like those guitars in Abbey Road that Elliott also uses a lot. It's an amazing sound. There's a Line 6 Modulation multi-effect unit (the light blue one?) which I wanted to get. I think it has a couple of effects like those, plus you can't really have too many modulation effects running simultaneously (remember, Lush fan :p)

[Amotis]

So it's a pretty low action? That's good....I think. I might need to feel it. Some acoustics are just too low for my style. Which gets really aggressive on acoustics for...some...reason.

Yeah, getting up near you and the right acoustics make a huge difference. Whenever rehersing I always go to my same little corner, get the same wooden stool, and set up the same way. A lot of sound change can just deal with what you're doing physically.

I actually started electric very blues-y clean tonemiester and very opposite which was My Bloody Valentine, post rock stuff, etc. The former quickly failed because a) that wasn't really my thing b) I lacked the funds to go searching for the one perfect tone (which is a bit overrated for me...my tone and sound changes constantly).

A rotary speaker emulator? Like a Leslie speaker? Haha, like Hammond/Deep Purple? Hehe...a bit of bad art rock for me but then again I didn't know Smith used it.

I've gotten really into Cline's lead work, aka see a recent live version of Wilco's At Least That What You Said, solo, where Nels plays it instead of Jeff. Just...wow. When that solo kicks in I'm dumbstuck, in tears, and rocking out. It's...indescribeable. He is such an idol for me. Fusion, post-rock, Wilco, Sonic Youth, and hundreds of other projects...or really anything from Sky Blue Sky. I really like his work and the Rolling Stones got it right (*gasp*) when they called him the Avant Romantic.

So my FX work go after him kinda. Very OD, fuzz, clean to distorted, very mussy yet solo-ish and noise driven. Or The Microphones. Another big electric influence, at least his live work.

[[..]Stigma[..]]

I've had a Art&Lutherie 12-str acoustic (also made by Godin, it's my dirt little obsession :smallwink: ) and it sounds phenominal. Only purchased for ~$500 CDN, and for the quality of sound that came out of it, I was quite pleased with that buy.

My second dirty obsession is probably that I'm such an über freak for Pink Floyd. It clouds my judgement, I know, but the PF association aside, the Hiwatt 103 heads over a 4x12 stack sounds amazing, so I'm not backing down there.

I've always wondered if my sound would be better if I used only a high-end multi-effects station, but my skill and sound won't carry on with me, so I don't worry about it. I'm happy with what I got, to be perfectly honest.

But I must say, if I would enjoy having some nice equipment under me.

How long has everyone been playing?

Oh and side note; Garage Band is fun, but extremely limiting in the sense that I can't do everything that floats around in my head, but most of that can't be done. Period. Either way, I like Garage Band. It's good for recording prank phone calls. :smallbiggrin:

[The Prince of Cats]

I have a ten year-old squier strat (not sure of its origin, but it does have the backward pick-up selector, so that will help narrow it down) that I love even in spite of its failings and its cheapness. I have an Aria Pro-2 FS that does not disappoint as a back-up. (it was £30 from a guitarist friend; weighs more than a real strat, but the sound is good enough for those 'damn, I just snapped 4 strings during that song' moments) My 'main' axe is a BC Rich Warlock. I picked it up in a closing-down sale at a friend's shop. I spent enough that day that I seriously question my decision to go there. That Floyd-Rose tremolo system was impressive enough that I keep toying with the idea of ordering a custom strat with one. Takes an age to tune, and I had to learn not to rest my hand on the bridge, but at least it holds its tune.

I have an Aria electro-acoustic whose model number wore off at some point in the last five years. It is not the most amazing guitar in the world, but it does its job.

My wife has a couple of basses; one bass is by Wesley, which is really a very good bass for its price, and the other is a 3/4 scale (she is short) by Crafter. She keeps threatening to buy a Daisy-Rock, but I think she is only joking...

Between us, we have two practice-amps and a flanger pedal. I almost bought a nice Marshall amp, when I got an offer to buy one at a significant discount, but my wife talked me out of it. As for effects, I never found a multi-effects unit I really liked. I borrow a different unit each time I gig, so I might find one one day. I could just buy a selection of pedals and patch cables, but space tends to be at a premium.

[King.Smurf]

Well I'm saving op money to a Fender Strat. Or at least that is what I got in mind right now. I got 1176.34 (USD) to use. Actually a thought about buying a guitar package (something we got in me local guitar store) which got a

Fender Std strat (With tremolo) 3 Standard Single-Coil Pickups
A Crate GT212 amp - 120 watt combo amplifier
And things like cable, tuner, and a little bit more

A also had a Epiphone in mind, but I thing I'll go with the Strat. But a telecaster would actually be nice to have too

The thing is, for the money 1176.34 there's gonna be both guitar and amplifier.

[Amotis]

@ King.Smurf - I don't know what styles you play but that amp is really really loud. It's really only for hard rock, metal, or punk. It needs to be pretty high to get any decent tones out of it, and still. It's really kinda made for Les Paul and Ibanez and humbuckers. Which isn't really a single coil strat. I mean, if that fits you style, go for it. But if it doesn't; stay away from that amp. It's too loud and doesn't compliment the guitar.

And doing some math and looking up some prices...I don't see why they're charging so much...

[Shadow of the Sun]

I'm still deciding whether I should move my focus to bass or electric, but I do gave ideas for both.

For bass, I'd like a Rickenbacker 4001. A pretty simple choice.
I'd also eventually like a fretless bass should I move my focus to bass, and probably a six string.

For electric guitars, an Ibanez S. Or a Jackson Randy Rhoads.

[King.Smurf]

@ King.Smurf - I don't know what styles you play but that amp is really really loud. It's really only for hard rock, metal, or punk. It needs to be pretty high to get any decent tones out of it, and still. It's really kinda made for Les Paul and Ibanez and humbuckers. Which isn't really a single coil strat. I mean, if that fits you style, go for it. But if it doesn't; stay away from that amp. It's too loud and doesn't compliment the guitar.

And doing some math and looking up some prices...I don't see why they're charging so much...

Well thanks:smallsmile: I really dosen't have knowlegde on these fields. But no. I don't like the Hard rock, metal. I am more to blues, western, new age, normal rock and some other styles.

But I am open for suggestions

[ZombieRockStar]

...:smalleek:

*cuddles his Yamaha F-310, tells it that it's a good guitar even if it was the cheapest beginner guitar in the store, that it makes good music and will always be his baby and that it doesn't need to listen to these pretentious gearheads*

Ahem...

My problem really is my mic. Samson USB condenser which I was told is supposed to be at least decent, so maybe I just don't know how to use it. It picks up the guitar just fine but it can't handle my voice, especially when I'd rather scream or be operatic instead of low-key Elliott Smith-like whispers.

Garage Band works for what I want to use it for, but then I'm just a guy and his acoustic. If I ever want to do more (probably) I'll have to find better software because I can see its limitations.

Anways...I'm working this summer to save up for an electric. And I'm completely lost as to what I should get. A few people know my style: lo-fi indie folk stuff like that, but I'd like a more versatile guitar, though. Something that can play slowcore and grunge equally. Suggestions, anyone?

As for amps...I'm completely lost. Suggestions...please, for the love of God, suggestions. Don't leave me to the whimsy of the guy behind the counter.

My buget for this, depending on how much money I make, whill probably be about $700-$1000 CAN ($600-$900 US).

*suddenly feels very inadequate...like his trouser titan is too small or something*

[Shadow of the Sun]

Oh, don't worry, I didn't even begin talking about the custom guitar and bass I want built.

Intricate designs and expensive electronics are my cocaine.

[Penguinsushi]

For bass, I'd like a Rickenbacker 4001. A pretty simple choice.
I'd also eventually like a fretless bass should I move my focus to bass, and probably a six string.

Fretless basses are fun (once you get used to the finger positions). They have a nice warm sound and don't pronounce every single note as much as fretted basses do - which gives you this sort of flowing bass line that I love for particularly mellow stuff.

As far as the 6-string, you're a brave man. I have long, skinny fingers and playing a 6 (or sometimes even a 5) string bass makes my wrist/fingers hurt because the fretboard is so wide. The uber-low sound is *nice* though. Particularly if you've got an amp that can do it...

~PS

[Shadow of the Sun]

I've played a six-string. They do so rock, despite I couldn't actually play anything because I'm a noob at both bass and guitar.

And I have arthritic fingers.

And about fretless instruments, Jaco Pasotorius had it right- once you have the positions memorized, they are speed-bumps.

[Khantalas]

I don't know why, but I like bass guitar better than electric. Probably because I can play the former. And other, more private reasons.
So, I suggest you go with that one.

My poor acoustic. The only gear I can get for it is a pick. *sniff*

[FdL]

@Amotis:
That rotary speaker effect is actually very interesting. When used in a guitar, (like I said, it's all over Abbey Road) gives it amazing texture. Listen for it. So it's not just for Deep Purple keyboards, though it's a good reference for those who don't know what we're talking about. Elliott did use it a lot, you know how he loved vintage sounds and well, Abbey Road :p

The first I knew of Nels Cline is when he became a member of my beloved Geraldine Fibbers. He even recorded with Carla Bozulich as a duo in the appropiately anagram-named Scarnella. I've yet to listen to any solo record of his, but I'm in the process of acquiring some. Any reccomendations?

And yes, he's an unbelievable musician even if you only judge him from his guitar work with Wilco.

@Stigma: Been playing for like ten years. But as I never took any lessons whatsoever, I've just recently started to feel comfortable with a guitar in my hands. I'm not into soloing and lead work, that's the part where I lack the most. But I enjoy my level of skill, which is never an excuse to keep you from improving. Well, let's say I'm improving at my own pace.

@King.Smurf: I actually have an Epiphone Telecaster and it's pretty good as far as I can tell. It was my first guitar, then I bought a strat clone to replace it (a Washburn BT-3) but kept it anyway seeing that they were really different and that I'd miss its character. I just love Teles.

@SotS: Yeah, you definitely can't beat the Rick 4001. It's just that simple, only that they're really expensive. How much is one of those nowadays? The Fender Precision is the classic rock bass. I don't know about models, years or coutry of origin, but I'd definitely get one. My crappy Legend jazz bass does its thing ok, but sometimes I want to throw it out the window and buy a Precision. Then I'll probably miss it, just like it happened with the Tele :)
I love playing bass, though. I'm probably a more interesting bassist than guitar player.

@Zombie: I have the same mic as you, this Samson C01U, USB condenser thingy. I think it's pretty cool, as I was used to mostly crappy dynamic mics, and this brings a new dimension of sound to both my acoustic and vocals (read: "treble"). I haven't had any problems with dynamics. Just make sure you install the additional drivers from their website. And the software controller thing.

For recording I use Sonar. I learned how to use it pretty well over the years, so that's what I value about it. It's actually pretty capable if you know how to use it right.

[Amotis]

Well thanks:smallsmile: I really dosen't have knowlegde on these fields. But no. I don't like the Hard rock, metal. I am more to blues, western, new age, normal rock and some other styles.

But I am open for suggestions

My suggestions? Don't go with the package. Especially with that shop you were thinking about buying from. They overpriced it (packages are suppose to have at least a little dip in price... And they don't know how to properly pair a guitar with an amp, if that package you named is any indication.

Here's what I say; stick with that guitar (but try it. Hand's on. Since you're not bound by a package anymore, look around the shop. I cannot stress enough how important trying out a guitar with your own hands before buying it. Guitar's people praise to all heaven and hell sometimes won't in yours.) Decent (if a bit cheap) starting electric. Fender is good. Strats are good for starters. But stay away from that amp.
Fender Champion 30 will be good for the strat sound, so will Richer Amps. Any Marshall-like non-master volume amp will be good in keeping that strat sound.

But amp is dictated by guitar choice. Guitar choice is dictated by what sounds good in your hands. Sounds vague and non-helpful yeah, but it's the truth. No one can tell you really what guitar to buy without you trying it personally.



Anways...I'm working this summer to save up for an electric. And I'm completely lost as to what I should get. A few people know my style: lo-fi indie folk stuff like that, but I'd like a more versatile guitar, though. Something that can play slowcore and grunge equally. Suggestions, anyone?

As for amps...I'm completely lost. Suggestions...please, for the love of God, suggestions. Don't leave me to the whimsy of the guy behind the counter.

My buget for this, depending on how much money I make, whill probably be about $700-$1000 CAN ($600-$900 US).

*suddenly feels very inadequate...like his trouser titan is too small or something*

600-900 for guitar and amp?

Besides the obvious of screaming JAZZMASTER! It's too expensive for you. (Even though it can do what you want to). Oh, and don't listen to the guy's behind the counter. They're salespeople first, then musicians or friends.

I think you need a Mexican or Asian reissue of something fender. Or a small party guitar that number in the hundreds. Or find something awesomely cheap and used. But like I told King.Smurf, you need to try. First guitars you don't buy online. I cannot stress this enough. There is no real way to recommend electrics. Just try them out.

That being said it took me a while to get into electric guitars. Mainly because I had my sights set on a Jazzmaster and that was my first guitar. Just saved and saved and saved.


@Amotis:
That rotary speaker effect is actually very interesting. When used in a guitar, (like I said, it's all over Abbey Road) gives it amazing texture. Listen for it. So it's not just for Deep Purple keyboards, though it's a good reference for those who don't know what we're talking about. Elliott did use it a lot, you know how he loved vintage sounds and well, Abbey Road :p

The first I knew of Nels Cline is when he became a member of my beloved Geraldine Fibbers. He even recorded with Carla Bozulich as a duo in the appropiately anagram-named Scarnella. I've yet to listen to any solo record of his, but I'm in the process of acquiring some. Any reccomendations?

And yes, he's an unbelievable musician even if you only judge him from his guitar work with Wilco.

@Zombie: I have the same mic as you, this Samson C01U, USB condenser thingy. I think it's pretty cool, as I was used to mostly crappy dynamic mics, and this brings a new dimension of sound to both my acoustic and vocals (read: "treble"). I haven't had any problems with dynamics. Just make sure you install the additional drivers from their website. And the software controller thing.

For recording I use Sonar. I learned how to use it pretty well over the years, so that's what I value about it. It's actually pretty capable if you know how to use it right.

Depends what you want. He's had quite a bit of varied stuff. He had some really cool stuff with Moore. And he did a Coletrane record (awesome). And "Destroy All Nels Cline" is a good record of his that shows his composition style as well as the two (three?) [With Singers] albums. But I think the coolest thing was this documentary/CD. It was about the NYC group of musicians (not always connected), very experimental avant guarde contemp classical musician. Very awesome but very hard to find. It talks about how music and their art effects their life and their connections with each other. It's very modern and social. Very cool.

Ha! Look at that! Fdl has this crappy USB mic too! But the difference is zombie uses Garageband and Fdl uses Sonar. Huge huge difference. I don't think anyone else has heard Fdl's stuff but I have and I can tell you the recording quality is years ahead of Garageband stuff. Nothing against zombie, it's the program man. Upgrade.

[Dispozition]

Whee...A thread to see all the better guitars that everyone has...

I have an Ibanez RG 320FM, Ibanez Artwood AW15ECE-LG and a yamaha c40
I also have Yamaha RBX 170 bass, but it doesn't get much use.

As for amps, i have a Laney 30 watt acoustic amp, a Marshall 15 watt Electric amp (w/ OD and reverb) and a 20 watt bass amp.

I don't have any pedals or such...But I might buy some a bit later this year.

As you can probably tell, I like ibanez...They have a good feel and sound. I don't really like fenders, their body shape and fretboards feel awkward for me. I do like epihpones and les pauls. The next guitar I'll probably buy is an Epiphone G310 SG Emily the Strange custom art job guitar. Their light and easy to play as well as not having a floyd rose tremolo, making drop D tuning easy!

And my dream guitars are a Les Pauls custom and an Ibanez L7 (slipknot guitars ftw \m/ ))

EDIT: I also need to get a 12 string acoustic...They sound so damn sweet...

[Amotis]

Their light and easy to play as well as not having a floyd rose tremolo, making drop D tuning easy!

Was it hard to begin with? :smallconfused:

Seriously, all you have to do is play a lot of folk guitar and you'll get really good relative pitch (like perfect pitch but...relative, not perfect) really fast. Tuning becomes a snap and intonation is a breeze. That or learn a wind instrument. That'll train your ear fast too.

What's with everyone having basses too? :smallconfused:

I don't have one and I don't plan to get one. Just too awkward for me...

edito - Oh, and I'm interested, what kinda picks do you cats use?

I use... pulgar, indice, media, and anular. :smallbiggrin:

[The Prince of Cats]

edito - Oh, and I'm interested, what kinda picks do you cats use?
Yellow ones...?

I think they are 0.5mm and kind of plectrum-shaped... You know, sort of half-way between ovoid and triangular...

I used to buy them individually, now I buy them in bulk. It is the safest way.

[Shadow of the Sun]

I use a dollar coin for a pick when I want to use one- although it hurts to fingerpick, it is still fun.

[Dispozition]

Picks? I use a 1mm one for my bass, .2-.5mm ones for my guitars...Whatever's on hand really. I try and use a .3mm for my electric though. Decent strength, but it still bends and stuff...

[Penguinsushi]

What's with everyone having basses too? :smallconfused:

I don't have one and I don't plan to get one. Just too awkward for me...

edito - Oh, and I'm interested, what kinda picks do you cats use?

I don't actually *own* a bass, but I currently have one that belongs to a friend of mine. Mostly I've just used it for recording.

I generally like thin picks. When I'm playing rhythm I usually use .46mm (really thin) and a more moderate ~.60mm when playing lead or doing heavy chord-picking.

~PS

[ZombieRockStar]

My picks vary between 1.0 mm and 2.0, so I like using the heavier ones, but those fit an acoustic, prefer something around 1.7. Usually fingerpick, though.

I might be willing to go over-budget for a good guitar...I'll see if the store carries Jazzmasters.

Hmm...Sonar. It isn't like I have a choice, though. Maybe when I get my own Mac. For now I'm stuck.

[Kraggi]

I've played a six-string. They do so rock, despite I couldn't actually play anything because I'm a noob at both bass and guitar.

And I have arthritic fingers.

And about fretless instruments, Jaco Pasotorius had it right- once you have the positions memorized, they are speed-bumps.Good ol' Jaco.... But I echo what he said about six string basses. As a bass player, those things scare me. I play stand up and electric bass myself, and stand up(which is fretless) just takes a little practice.

A lot of practice, but that's the idea anyway. BUT, I have a question about six string basses. I'm wondering if anyone of note has tuned a six string like a guitar so that they could play chords on it more easily. It's always something I've wondered about, ever since I discovered that *GASP* guitars weren't tuned to perfect fourths on the last two strings. I still say it's blasphemy.

[Amotis]

Standard is acutally pretty nice. Versitile, easy to play chords, scales, and chromatic passages. It's laid out like a piano and very comfortable.

The last (or first rather) two strings, octave e and b, are a perfect fourth. It's b and g who have a major third. It's there to allow easier chords. Think of how much harder common chords, like D, G, or C (or some of the barre chords would be really hard) would be using a fret upwards on the b string. Now image how hard it would be to change to a different chord using that strange tuning. It's much more natural with the M3 thrown in there.

[Kraggi]

I understand that, I just don't think of the last string as a perfect fourth, even though it is, because it isnt a perfect fourth from a perfect fourth from G.

Yes, it IS bad logic, but tis how my brain works. I understand that it allows easier chords. My guitar playing freind showed it to me, and that really explained it nicely. Although I can't quite play them on guitar, because that major third always screws up my hand positions, even though those hand positions are harder.

Was that coherent?

[Shadow of the Sun]

Kraggi, have you ever heard of what is known as the New Standard Tuning...?

[ZombieRockStar]

Heh. My first instrument was violin, then viola. So my mind was always thinking in perfect fifths when I started guitar.

[Amotis]

Intervals between two notes are removed from any notes that came before them. :smallwink:

[Kraggi]

The Frippian mode? Yes, why?

[Shadow of the Sun]

If you are complaining about standard it is generally assumed you will find the NST to be rather intolerable, although it is a good tuning.

[Amotis]

The Frippian mode? Yes, why?

It's not a mode! ><

[Shadow of the Sun]

Yes, my inner music nerd cried too, Amotis.

[Kraggi]

Erm..... I don't dislike standard tuning? It sounds fine, it's just that as a bassist it screws me up. That's why I don't play guitar....

Well, I sometimes try, but all I really do is play the first four strings like I would a bass.

EDIT:
It's not a mode! ><I like to call it the Frippian mode....Doesn't that sound cooler? It sounds like it could be a mode! One plays frippertronics in the Frippian Mode....It sounds cool.

And I like the word/name Fripp.

[Penguinsushi]

The Frippian mode? Yes, why?

Frippian...Mode...

Ok, see, here's where I'm horribly out-classed. I can read music almost well enough to be dangerous. That's about it. I know very little theory. I've always just played by ear.

~PS

[Kraggi]

There is no Frippian mode.

Or spoon.

[Penguinsushi]

There is no Frippian mode.

Or spoon.

That's just it - I wouldn't have known!

Besides, most of the other actual modes have names that are just as weird...

:smallwink:

~PS

[FdL]

Depends what you want. He's had quite a bit of varied stuff. He had some really cool stuff with Moore. And he did a Coletrane record (awesome). And "Destroy All Nels Cline" is a good record of his that shows his composition style as well as the two (three?) [With Singers] albums. But I think the coolest thing was this documentary/CD. It was about the NYC group of musicians (not always connected), very experimental avant guarde contemp classical musician. Very awesome but very hard to find. It talks about how music and their art effects their life and their connections with each other. It's very modern and social. Very cool.


I've been looking for the Coltrane record to no avail. A pity because it would be a nice introduction to Coltrane too (:slightly ashamed:) I'm getting Destroy and one with Moore soon.



Ha! Look at that! Fdl has this crappy USB mic too! But the difference is zombie uses Garageband and Fdl uses Sonar. Huge huge difference. I don't think anyone else has heard Fdl's stuff but I have and I can tell you the recording quality is years ahead of Garageband stuff. Nothing against zombie, it's the program man. Upgrade.

LOL! Really, the program makes a difference I guess, but it takes time to learn it. I actually recorded the stuff I showed you with an even crappier mic. Well, it's a dynamic mic, which is better to place in front of the amp (learning techniques also helps). It's one of the cheapest Shures, 8700 "lyric microphone" or something. And it's really not that bad, only a little dull color-wise. But that one was better than the supermarket one I had before hahaha. So I'm improving.

The Samson USB is actually not that bad. It's not nowhere near pro stuff, but I like that it has a greater frequency range and I can use it for other stuff as it's a condenser. It has a quite nice crisp sound that really adds to the stuff I record. It's good to have alternatives anyway. Plus it's an easy way of using a condenser, as it doesn't require phantom power which I don't have. I'm phantom powerless.

Picks...I started with really thin ones. I liked flappy flexibility for fast Feelies-like strumming. Then I found my perfect picks: Dunlop Nylon picks, those who have a little textured grip zone. So it began. First reds (.53), then orange (.67), yellow ones a lot (.80) and then before I settled with the green ones (.94) I switched to more pedestrian Fender plastic ones. There's a Medium one that's transparent turquoise, then a Heavy one which is transparent blue. And now I use some that are dark brown with a slight pearly texture. I guess the Fender harder ones give more attack and so a clearer volume (in acoustic). But the Dunlop ones are pretty good too.

I guess it's a good sign that I have evolved in pick choice, because I really feel I have more control when picking and strumming.

I'd really like to learn fingerpicking, but I guess I'll have to live without it.

Edit: Oh, I remember, everyone else plays with brick-thickness picks. Heh :S Well, I don't play too loud or strong, that's just me.
And FYI I don't have a Mac, Sonar is for PC. I don't do Macs.

[ZombieRockStar]

Most of the picks I have are Dunlop.

The thing about a multi-channel mic is that I lean too heavily on the treble side. I have to put the thing on mono or else it plays it back all in one ear. At least, I think that's the problem...

[Shadow of the Sun]

Heh. Imagine putting a six-string bass in open C.

[[..]Stigma[..]]

@ Amotis: Time to time, I crank the bass settings and lower the tone, increase the crunch and slap-play my guitar's bass strings, but I don't want to ever get a bass.

@ FDL: I've only been playing for 5 years, and no formal training, or any training for that matter. I love to solo and lead, it's just me though :smallbiggrin:

[Dispozition]

Heh. Imagine putting a six-string bass in open C.

My Bass is almost constantly in drop D...That or Drop D#, but only for one song...One damn awesome song!

[Kraggi]

I figure this is a good place to ask a question that came up today. So, today, my drummer freind and guitarist freind came over, and we jammed for like six hours. Then I had a bass lesson for an hour. Is there any way, aside from just doing it a helluva lot, that I could make my wrist hurt less from sustained bassage?

[Shadow of the Sun]

My neck is similar from a 5 hour mosh-pit two days ago.

Totally worth being kicked in the face, I tell you.

I know someone who has been playing bass for so long he has no feeling in any of his fingertips, it is amusing and weird.

[Kraggi]

For some reason I don't get it so much in my fingers, just my left wrist. No idea why. Anyone care to offer advice/explanation/whatever?

[Penguinsushi]

Ha! Look at that! Fdl has this crappy USB mic too! But the difference is zombie uses Garageband and Fdl uses Sonar. Huge huge difference. I don't think anyone else has heard Fdl's stuff but I have and I can tell you the recording quality is years ahead of Garageband stuff. Nothing against zombie, it's the program man. Upgrade.

Really? Now I'm a bit interested. I've made some stuff that sounds pretty professional using only garageband. Of course, I don't have a usb mic, but a shure pe85L running through a behringer eurorack UB802 soundboard into my machine. It's nothing special, but it's an actual mic as opposed to a computer mic. Perhaps that's the difference?

I'd like to hear the stuff FDL has done with Sonar for some comparison...

~PS

[Shadow of the Sun]

It could be worse, as i said, I have arthritic fingers.

[Amotis]

@ Fdl, if ya ever want to get into jazz just drop me a PM. I went classical, jazz, rock so I might know what will hit you and what won't. I'm just not a jazz purist. Seriously, if you think there are pretencious rock or classical guys, look at jazz. It hurts sometimes.

Or fingerpicking. I know some great tunes. (No not classical gas. *stabs someone*)

@ Penguin, always always always I've hailed actual mics over USB mics. The sound quality always has dropped dramatically whenever I've heard a good USB mic and then a decent real mic. I mean, it's huge. Sure it's a lot more cheaper to go USB computer, rather then, Mic preamp extensive cables firewire or card soundboards computer. That's always been my take on mics and I've heard it proven over and over again. For mics, the more expensive and the more specialized toward what sound you want (diaphram wise), the better. USB mics? They fall into the cheap generalized category mostly.

@ Kraggi, not knowing bass to much I'll just attribute it to being new at the instrument or having bad posture. Look into wrist holders or something like that.

[Shadow of the Sun]

Recuerdos De La Alhambra, Amotis?

A lovely song, I found a video of Pepe Romero playing it.

[Amotis]

That's a classical piece, not a fingerpicking one. Pretty big difference between rock or folk or just general fingerpicking and a tremolo.

[Shadow of the Sun]

It's still cool. You cannot argue with me on that point.

[Kraggi]

I've been playing bass for a while now, and it's been happening ever since I started. I thought about it because it got REALLY bad today. Like, so bad I almost had to stop my bass lesson early(Heaven forbid!). Although, I could see bad posture, as I have terrible posture, but how would that factor into my wrist? Sorry for lack of comprehension.

Also, about Jazz and stuff, I'm a huge fan of Jazz fusion. Weather Report and Return to Forever are, to put it bluntly, the sex. The album Jaco Pastorius is also awesome to the bass power.

[Shadow of the Sun]

If you want fingerpicking, not classical, I cannot extol the virtues of Antoine Dufour (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qTnkbcKyFg&mode=related&search=) above what I already do. He is incredible.

[Amotis]

I've been playing bass for a while now, and it's been happening ever since I started. I thought about it because it got REALLY bad today. Like, so bad I almost had to stop my bass lesson early(Heaven forbid!). Although, I could see bad posture, as I have terrible posture, but how would that factor into my wrist? Sorry for lack of comprehension.

Also, about Jazz and stuff, I'm a huge fan of Jazz fusion. Weather Report and Return to Forever are, to put it bluntly, the sex. The album Jaco Pastorius is also awesome to the bass power.

Adaquate discription. Their later years, however, quickly turned from "teh sex" to "teh masturbation." But that's another thread. (Though if we wanna talk fusion I have plenty to say invovling a cool new fusion band).

Posture of the wrist I was talking about more. But entire body posture can lead to it too. Quite easily. Iono specifically cause its not my instrument and I don't know how you play, but that most likely is it. Body or hand placement.

@^ :smallsigh:

Why are all these new fingerpicking or tap "masters" of acoustic guitar compositions soooo freaken boring? And dry, might I add. Oh well...this too is another thread.

[Shadow of the Sun]

Amotis, I only really like the part of the song where he does the double handed slapping. Other than that, I'd much prefer some Django.

[Kraggi]

Whose later years? Also, do tell about this new fusion band. I don't really like any bands from before 1979, and would like to broaden my musical tastes. And, about the wrist issues, electric bass at least is reasonably similar to guitar in wrist position. I don't play stand up for long periods of time, so I don't know if I would get that problem while playing stand up bass too.

[Penguinsushi]

I've been playing bass for a while now, and it's been happening ever since I started. I thought about it because it got REALLY bad today. Like, so bad I almost had to stop my bass lesson early(Heaven forbid!). Although, I could see bad posture, as I have terrible posture, but how would that factor into my wrist? Sorry for lack of comprehension.

Perhaps your carpal tunnel is aggravated (for whatever reason)? A friend of mine had some pretty bad carpal tunnel problems in his left wrist and playing guitar always made it worse for him...

~PS

[Amotis]

Whose later years? Also, do tell about this new fusion band. I don't really like any bands from before 1979, and would like to broaden my musical tastes. And, about the wrist issues, electric bass at least is reasonably similar to guitar in wrist position. I don't play stand up for long periods of time, so I don't know if I would get that problem while playing stand up bass too.

Return to Forever's.

Hectic Watermelon (http://www.hecticwatermelon.com/index.cfm)

Old (randomly current) guitar/theory teacher. I've also played with Harley. They grew huge in the last few months. Like overseas air play, fusion awards, commentary from the high up music theory schools. I'm glad to say I've been with them since the beginning. :smallbiggrin: I mean...their first gig was in the local school's band room. And I was there. Oh, and you might recognize their violin player. Whom I got to meet. That was cool. Go to their music section for longer and better samples.

You keeping your left hand knuckles aligned with the fretboard?

[Kraggi]

I dig some of those songs they've got playing on their website. But, yeah, I've been keeping my knuckles at a very slight diagonal with the frettboard. Is that bad?

[Amotis]

I dig some of those songs they've got playing on their website. But, yeah, I've been keeping my knuckles at a very slight diagonal with the frettboard. Is that bad?

Buy their album! No really...please do. It's cheap.

Well I guess it's a classical habit, but that's a bit of a no no for me, knuckles = parallel. Not sure if the others here are a bit more lax about that but it might just possibly maybe be the source of your problem. As well as the angle of knuckle to arch to finger, as well as palm possition.

Iono, someone's gonna just simi me and say they play without their knuckles like that and their hands don't hurt.

[Kraggi]

Related question about prolonged exposure to loud music right next to the amps...My freinds all wear earplugs, but when I wear earplugs I always miss the cues to switch this or that. I can hear the drums well enough, but I really can't pick out the guitar with earplugs in. Anyone have any suggestion that will keep my ears from ringing, but still allow me to keep up?

[Shadow of the Sun]

It will be expensive, but in-ear monitors are the best solution. Geddy Lee uses them as well, as do a lot of other famous musicians.

Kraggi, do you use slapping and popping or just normal fingerstyle bass?

[Kraggi]

I haven't been able to get slap bass down, so I just play normally. My bass teacher never taught me any other way, so I can't. My friends have tried getting me to play slap, but I really can't do it very well at all. Also, I have no idea what in-ear monitors are.

[Amotis]

Related question about prolonged exposure to loud music right next to the amps...My freinds all wear earplugs, but when I wear earplugs I always miss the cues to switch this or that. I can hear the drums well enough, but I really can't pick out the guitar with earplugs in. Anyone have any suggestion that will keep my ears from ringing, but still allow me to keep up?

Expensive stuff. :smalltongue: Moniters are straight out unless you're constantly gigging, having coherent non-drunk soundguys, and rolling in the dough. There's some expensive sound cancelling but still regular noise audible earplugs. No idea where though.

For me it's always been the Godspeed You! approach. Read lips, hand signals, know the other members in your band well. I use this for improv but you can use it because you can't hear them because of cheap earplugs. As for hearing guitar, then don't wear 'em and stand away from the drums. Don't use him as a source of tempo, use the band. Though I'm a bit poor and don't really play loud gigs so my suggestions may be a bit off course.

[Shadow of the Sun]

When it comes to expensive stuff, I know a bassist who managed to throw a $500 wireless lead into a tree, at a concert, in the middle of a song. 'Twas funny.

[Kraggi]

I dunno, we're only three people, and I can't really synch up with guitar. I kind of have to synch up with the drums. We're also kind in an enclosed space, so I don't really have a choice but to be equidistant from the drums and guitar.

[Amotis]

I dunno, we're only three people, and I can't really synch up with guitar. I kind of have to synch up with the drums. We're also kind in an enclosed space, so I don't really have a choice but to be equidistant from the drums and guitar.

Enclosed space + loud amps + loud drums = ear damage.

Yeah, that'll happen. Turn those suckers down or get a bigger place.

[Shadow of the Sun]

Ah, Finabah, the only emo band I actually like.

The bassist is awesome though, he runs around perpetually while playing and spins his bass and everything. They are an awesome band.

[Kraggi]

It's really the drummer. He can't really play quietly, so we have to turn up the amps to hear ourselves, you know? When he plays drums for a jazz bit or a blues bit its much better, but simple rock is what we play mostly, so he drums pretty loudly.

I guess that's an unnesecary tangent, but back to what i was saying. We don't have much choice about the space, as we all are freshmen in high school, and I guess that unnesecary tangent esplains the other two.

[FdL]

Kraggi, honestly, if you want to expand your musical horizons you should fix that thing about not liking "anything from before 1979" :S You sure must know the Beatles, what's not to like there? Iono, The Velvet Underground, Neil Young & Crazy Horse, Big Star, The Stooges, Television...Lots of stuff. I don't know what kind of music you're into, but most of what you're listening probably was invented and done to death before 1979. So do yourself a favor :p

@ Amotis: Regarding finger position, I guess it comes naturally, but I put my fingers pretty much parallel to the frets (I checked, silly me :p). I keep the bass pretty horizontal and hung high too, unlike some player's I've seen that play at a very vertical angle. That's difficult for me because makes me put my fingers diagonally to the fretboard, exactly as Kraggi describes. And I can't play like that, iono, as if it was a double-bass. Or the guy from Korn, whose style I hate (that horrible clicking noise).

I'm thinking about the loudness and earplug thing and the times I've played with a full band in a little room it can be awful. Like having the drums at less than a meter, that can be really violent. So people actually use earplugs while they play? I understand the thing about drums, that can't be helped, but still I think it's weird.

@Kraggi again: For me the only way to learn to synch up with others is to play along to records. A LOT. Then pray that the rest of the people you're playing with can keep their stuff in time. It's complicated but I guess it comes with practice. I played with my cousin who has little to no training and we've always played really tight, whereas I've met people who can't stay nowhere near the tempo.

[Amotis]

@Kraggi again: For me the only way to learn to synch up with others is to play along to records. A LOT. Then pray that the rest of the people you're playing with can keep their stuff in time. It's complicated but I guess it comes with practice. I played with my cousin who has little to no training and we've always played really tight, whereas I've met people who can't stay nowhere near the tempo.

That's why you have good time. See I keep time with a metronome and sheet music and practice and alone. I hardly ever play along when practicing even when I do have the recording. I might try that sometimes but I just thought it was cool how our techniques on that are totally different on that because of our musical socialization.

edito - oh right. Yeah Kraggi, listen to what Fdl has to say. Giving a date and choosing a side is a bit...sheltered to put it nicely.

orrr you can simi and sound even moooore sheltered.

Don't say that. Modern music is bad? Please. That's just stating extremes from an ignorant pov. You don't listen and you still say that? No noes.

[Kraggi]

I can synch up, just not really with earplugs. Also, sorry if I was unclear or mistyped, I only like stuff before 1979. I do not like ANY modern bands.

[Shadow of the Sun]

That is ignoring the majesty of Shawn Lane.

The gods of Jazz Fusion forsake thee.

[FdL]

I can synch up, just not really with earplugs. Also, sorry if I was unclear or mistyped, I only like stuff before 1979. I do not like ANY modern bands.

Okay...Then the inverse argument :) I'm too lazy to type because I'm playing right now :D R.E.M., Yo La Tengo, Throwing Muses, Replacements, My Bloody Valentine, Guided By Voices, Meat Puppets, Built To Spill, Sebadoh, Wilco, Superchunk, Sonic Youth, Minutemen, Galaxie 500, Lemonheads, Red House Painters, etc.

[Kraggi]

I understand I need to branch out, hense my asking of who that fusion band was. :smallbiggrin:

....That smiley is called "Small big grin." That amuses me to no end.

[Shadow of the Sun]

Get anything and everything you can by Shawn Lane. He was an incredible technical guitarist who could write very good songs.

[SDF]

Never seen a thread like this one around here, but it would be cool to talk about guitars and gear like amps and pedals.
I still think it would be cool to own a Rickenbacker, any of the classic models or even a 4001 bass. I think they're masterworks, and so they are really expensive and probably too good for me. But it would be really cool to have one.

I had a thread like this a while ago, but it was more for instruments in general. I just bought a Rickenbacker 350V63 myself. It is pretty much perfect, for me. I have a 3/4ths Fender acoustic, a Yamaha acoustic, and a Carlos classical guitar that I got in a pawn shop. Good price, good wood. For effects my favorite is the POG which I use more than anything else. Boss Delay, DigiTech whammy, and a Fender Blender round out the rest. Next I'll probably go for some better recording gear or a better acoustic. I have lots of friends that are musicians so I often borrow my friends Taylor if I feel like trying to record something. I like Martins better though, I think they have a more full sound. If I get another electric, a Zemaitis would be dreamy. Along with standard tunings I love open tunings, specifically open E and A, A more than E.


Okay...Then the inverse argument :) I'm too lazy to type because I'm playing right now :D R.E.M., Yo La Tengo, Throwing Muses, Replacements, My Bloody Valentine, Guided By Voices, Meat Puppets, Built To Spill, Sebadoh, Wilco, Superchunk, Sonic Youth, Minutemen, Galaxie 500, Lemonheads, Red House Painters, etc.

I love My Bloody Valentine and Wilco, but especially Built to Spill because they are a local band. :smallbiggrin: And speaking of 1979, Death From Above 1979 is pretty good as well. :smalltongue:

[Shadow of the Sun]

I've decided to take up bass over guitar- I'm used to low end instruments by now, and frankly, bass is fun.

And you can still pull off some pretty sick solos on it.

[Dispozition]

I've decided to take up bass over guitar- I'm used to low end instruments by now, and frankly, bass is fun.

And you can still pull off some pretty sick solos on it.

Double bass is better for that...As seen in Betterman by JBT...Goddamn awesome song. 12 minutes of the 16 it goes for are solos :P

[Shadow of the Sun]

I'll stick with electric bass for now, thanks. Bass is still fun, and if you look at Jaco Pastorius you will see that you can have awesome electric bass solo's.

[smellie_hippie]

I love my Fender. I can say thay unequivically now, because I went to a guitar store, picked up the $2800 PRS, and still liked my Strat better! :smallbiggrin:

So I play a '95 Fender Strat with EMG single coils. Bottom pickup is active. I run this through my Fender Cybertwin Amp. It's all digital, but it has the tone from crunch to warm, and more effects that I can shake a stick at! The onyl part I don't like is that the multi-effects pedal that goes with costs another $300!! :smalleek:

My son plays a "Goth" Epiphone flying V through 30W cube. He's also got a Fender Bass and a little 15W crate amp.

I'll snap a couple of pictures and put them in the post later to show you the rig.

[Kraggi]

I'll stick with electric bass for now, thanks. Bass is still fun, and if you look at Jaco Pastorius you will see that you can have awesome electric bass solo's.
Double bass really is a helpful tool. If you can play double bass well, you can play electric bass GREAT. But, really, I don't one should go into a band with the attitude of soloing on bass...You can sometimes, but really that isn't your job. Know and understand your job as the foundation of the music before you start soloing.

[Shadow of the Sun]

I do understand my job, I have played the tuba for longer than half my life.

Still, solos are fun.

[Penguinsushi]

My son plays a "Goth" Epiphone flying V through 30W cube. He's also got a Fender Bass and a little 15W crate amp.

I was looking at a "Goth" Epiphone SG copy (G400, I think?) over at Morrell's (JC) when looking for my new guitar. It was pretty nice and I like the all-mat-black look w/ the celtic cross on the headstock, but I ultimately decided that the Gibson played better...

~PS

[Sereneprophet]

Ive got a Fender Squire Strat that came in a pack, cause I got it for my birthday back when I was like...15. Sadly, I dont have that "knack" some folks do, and im not much for practicing, cause I enjoy singing much more.

Ive got a 15w amp, digital tuner, and thats about it. Ive thought about grabbing a newer one, just to have around to jam on, and if I get into it at some point, ill have something nicer, or just hang it on my wall in respect to guitarist :P.


But yeah.

[Amotis]

We're talking about sexy guitars?

It's beauty (http://www.unofficialwarmoth.com/index.php?topic=56.0;topicseen)

I mean...wow. I usually don't like fancy stuff like that...(see later pictures) but wow. The body is perfect; not too Les Paul, a bit aggressive. The color's a bit much but it's suppose to be a bit flamboyant, it has a rose fretboard. I would dim the color and make the texture nicer too. I would never buy one but I think it looks very nice.

No idea how it plays though.

http://www.the-byline.com/guitars/rick_650_012.jpg

Always had a thing for naked guitars.


http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f399/Csapo/06EsquireCustomBuild-1.jpg

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f399/Csapo/06EsquireCustomBuild-500pix.jpg

And Esquires...

http://images.lilypix.com/albums/userpics/10028/normal_100_0238.JPG

And Dobros...

http://www.andrewcampbell.net/ebay/DSCF0086.JPG

...:smalltongue:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v303/vbjamin/DSC01255.jpg

Ahh reverands...


http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u65/Nibulniblin/Coco2.jpg

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u65/Nibulniblin/Coco6.jpg

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u65/Nibulniblin/Coco9.jpg

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u65/Nibulniblin/Coco10.jpg

I...like it.

[FdL]

That's why you have good time. See I keep time with a metronome and sheet music and practice and alone. I hardly ever play along when practicing even when I do have the recording. I might try that sometimes but I just thought it was cool how our techniques on that are totally different on that because of our musical socialization.


I didn't quite get the last part about musical socialization :s I usually play alone, yes, but for what I have experienced I can easily adapt to playing with others, especially regarding time keeping.

I like naked guitars too, paint can be sometimes boring. But I don't like those Ricks with the curl :S The Esquire looks as if it was blind :D It's hard to explain, it's as if it didn't have eyes on its face.

Shadow, regarding your bass playing, I agree with Kraggi about understanding the role of bass in a rock context. If you're playing bass and not doing it's thing, you'd rather play guitar. This happened with the last band I played with, the bassist wasn't fullfilling her role at all, in the name of looking for strange dissonances and/or doing her thing.

Bass is not for everybody. You have to actually like that role (tugboat, as to quote Mike Watt). I enjoy playing those long Yo La Tengo songs where the bass plays the same 3 or four notes. Or just building a simple rythmic foundation. Bass is the glue that holds the guitar and drums together, so it's important to know when you can deviate from that role and when you should "dissappear".

But it doesn't have to do with egos, I think. It's not like the singer or the lead guitarists are cooler than the other musicians or something. That's a BS rock image that I despise. I actually think you can do more for a song from the bassline than from lead guitar. Some examples are (early) R.E.M., (early) Throwing Muses and Galaxie 500.

[Shadow of the Sun]

That's the thing, I've played a bass instrument for over half my life, 8 years from my fifteen. I do know my role; the reason I think bass is for me is because I am used to that role. However, even the tuba gets solos, and as such, so does bass.

You could think of it like this, I want to play bass because it is a role I'm used too and enjoy, but I would like a bit of time in the spotlight.

[King.Smurf]

Anybody who knows what guitar(s) the guitarist in Red Hot Chili peppers plays on?

[Kraggi]

That's the thing, I've played a bass instrument for over half my life, 8 years from my fifteen. I do know my role; the reason I think bass is for me is because I am used to that role. However, even the tuba gets solos, and as such, so does bass.

You could think of it like this, I want to play bass because it is a role I'm used too and enjoy, but I would like a bit of time in the spotlight.

.....Erm, if you want time in the spotlight take up....Any other instrument. Or get good enough at bass to put John Entwhistle to shame. But the first option seems a tad bit easier.

[skyclad]

Anybody who knows what guitar(s) the guitarist in Red Hot Chili peppers plays on?

All kinds of guitars, but mainly fender style. I think he usually plays a strat.

[Shadow of the Sun]

I have too much of a passion for low instruments to really do anything else. I'm quite content remaining in the backing, but I would enjoy a solo here or there. I'd probably be a vocalist as well.

My point is, about 98% of the time I enjoy being in the back of a piece of music. It's what I do. The other 2% is when I get my small chance of doing something that gets noticed.

[Kraggi]

The thing is, in bass, if you're getting noticed, you're usually doing something wrong.

[Shadow of the Sun]

The tuba is similar. But it still gets solos.

[Kraggi]

Well, one thing I don't get, sorry. Why do you want to play the bass as opposed to the tuba? They do the same thing, and you can already do one of them at some level of skill.

[Shadow of the Sun]

I want to play bass because I enjoy it. I've played a bit, and it's fun. Simple as that.

[Kraggi]

Curse my overthinking things! :smalltongue: If you like it, go on ahead. I'm an idiot.:smallbiggrin:

[Penguinsushi]

I have too much of a passion for low instruments to really do anything else. I'm quite content remaining in the backing, but I would enjoy a solo here or there. I'd probably be a vocalist as well.

Bass *is* a lot of fun - particularly in a band. Can you sing and play bass at the same time? I've never been able to...

~PS

[Amotis]

Anybody who knows what guitar(s) the guitarist in Red Hot Chili peppers plays on?

Ah John. He plays '62 Strats and '60 Tele's mostly. Other guitars he plays I think are White Falcons (Gretsch) and Janguars (fender). I think he's sponcered by Fender.
Marshall stacks, and chorus/phase is usually you how get that sound.

I would put him in the Dave Evans category. Decent guitarist, bad band. Check out his solo work.


Singing while playing Bass looks awesome. I saw Matt Sweeney do it once and I was like ">< whoa...." the only time I ever wanted to pick up bass because it looked so awesome and fun.

[smellie_hippie]

Singing while playing Bass looks awesome. I saw Matt Sweeney do it once and I was like ">< whoa...." the only time I ever wanted to pick up bass because it looked so awesome and fun.

Bass frontmen. Take a chance and look at a few of these guys. I'd expect you to know most of them, but the others despite their band's "musical genre", they are still worth checking out.

Les Claypool: Primus
Flea: Red Hot Chili Peppers.
Victor Wooten: Bela Fleck & the Flecktones
Mike Gordon: Phish
Rob Derhak: moe.

Each of these guys sing and play bass...... and I mean they are not just the root note throbbing in the background. :smallamused:

[Amotis]

Okay...yeah. There's quite a bit a few of them.

But I've seen them and Matt was a bit different.
He had this really hesistant manner about him, coupled with his really not-trained style of bass playing (not his instrument), the way he kinda just shuffled up to the mic, the hand possition on the bass and the way the heavy accented beats on the bass contrasted with his backup vocals (which were practically screamed) both visually and musically, it was really cool. Such an image. And most certainly not a front man one. Just...cool.

[smellie_hippie]

Flea is the only one of those I listed that I haven't seen live. The rest are absolutely incredible!
Les (twice), Victor (twice), Rob (four times), Mike (ummmm... 35 times?)

:smalltongue:

Amazing guitarists I have seen live?

B.B. King, David Gilmour, Jimmy Page, Trey Anastasio...

[Kraggi]

I saw Clapton when he came here a few months ago. SO. AWESOME.

Trukks, Trucks, however you spell his name, one of the dudes clapton had with him, was AWESOME. So was their keyboard player. And their bass player, too.

I LOVE THEM ALL!

[FdL]

Didn't the guy from Red Hot Chili Peppers play Jazzmasters or Jaguars too? I might be mistaking him for a diferent guy, but I remember it from "Under the bridge".

I can't sing and play bass. It's so difficult for me, impossible really. It may be because I play by ear and concentrate on the rhythm and the fills, and what to do next, so I can't process two separate musical mental streams. Plus there's the lyrics which I have to remember! Argh!

It would be really good for me to be able to do so. I've tried to, and maybe it's all practice, but then again I'm barely beginning to be able to play guitar and sing at the same time. Usually it's simple rhythmic stuff, because I notice that when I have to keep a time with the guitar that is slightly more complicated than the average strum, my "music concentration" completely drains from the guitar to be able to sing. :S


BTW, the spotlight is totally overrated, IMHO. I'd rather be making music than acting a R'n'R pose.

[Amotis]

I saw one of my guitars gods, Ben Chasny, when he was on this neo-folk tour with Banheart, that was very cool and intimate and was three days long. Then again when he toured with Bonnie "Prince" Billy, one of the best shows I've been to.

Just yeah...

edito - the spotlight is indeed overrated. I like sitting down.
Which is why I play post-rock for all the wrong reasons. :smalltongue:

[FdL]

Yay anti showmanship! Music speaking for itself, music that cannot be photographed or made posters about. Music, period. I actually totally support bands like Mogwai or GY!BE who are faceless. Making an instrumental band is probably the bravest anti-establishment statement these days where everything is expected to be based on image and looks, egos and rock 'n roll BS poses.

BTW, Amotis, how much does a brand new, current Jazzmaster cost these days?

[Amotis]

Indeed. I have a lot of respect for GY!BE. They fought the music industry, they fought the music media, they we're really just about the music. To the point of being when they thought they couldn't find a middle ground of being anti-establishment and playing music, when they found themselves frustrated with the large concerts, the walls of media, and the lack of openness; they stopped. Which is also why I think of the Sex Pistols as really the only awesome first wave punk band. They may have sucked, but god damn it they were the true punk band.

Brand new? I think for the non-american ones; 600-800. Iono, though.

[Kraggi]

If there is one band I want to see, it's Crazy Horse. Well, then again, I haven't heard anything in the past ten years from them. The latest I've heard was late ninties...I hope they still have the passion.

[ZombieRockStar]

But the Japanese Jazzmasters have different, more strat-style pickups, don't they? How do those work, FdL? I'm considering getting one now, since they seem like the kind of guitar I want. Should I get a Japanese one or look for a used American one (both obviously re-issues since I don't have the kind of money for a vintage).

I suppose I could get the pickups replaced, maybe...but that would cost a lot...

Or maybe get a Jaguar. Which would just be a fanboy thing for me, I guess...*grabs flannel shirt*

[Amotis]

You're correct about them having different pickups. But they might have changed that in later years.

Used American reissue is my vote. Used is teh way to go. At least for people who don't have money.

Jaguar lacks the important and very awesome Jazzmaster middle position though. I mean it's up to you but it's a completely different guitar, wiring wise.

[ZombieRockStar]

I was joking. I'm not getting a guitar simply because Kurt Cobain had one. :smallamused:

Probably should've made it clearer.

[smellie_hippie]

I was joking. I'm not getting a guitar simply because Kurt Cobain had one. :smallamused:

Probably should've made it clearer.

I bought my Strat because of David Gilmour.... and Stevie Ray Vaughn.... and Jimi Hendrix... and... :smallamused:

I am also very pleased with it. I've debated about putting the "roller nut" and locking tuners, but I'm afraid to mess with the beauty of it as it is. :smalleek:

[Penguinsushi]

I bought my Strat because of David Gilmour.... and Stevie Ray Vaughn.... and Jimi Hendrix... and... :smallamused:

I am also very pleased with it. I've debated about putting the "roller nut" and locking tuners, but I'm afraid to mess with the beauty of it as it is. :smalleek:

...and Eric Clapton.

They're nice guitars. My first electric (a fender duo-sonic) was a sort of baby strat (shortscale, 2 pickups instead of 3). I played that thing for years learning some Clapton stuff (most of which I've now forgotten)...

I eventually discovered that I like the sound of humbucker pickups better than single-coils, however - which pretty much led me away from fender...

~PS

[ZombieRockStar]

Yeah, but it's a Strat, so that's okay.

Kurt's main guitar was actually a Mustang, I think, which isn't the kind of guitar I want, though it might cost a good bit less than a Jazzmaster. I'll probably try every guitar in the store, just to be sure. :smallamused:

[Amotis]

If anything, on strats, I would replace the pickups. Kinman's, EMG's, Lollers, WCR, Bill Lawrence . Much more warmer and versatile tones then the standard strat pickups.

[skyclad]

If anything, on strats, I would replace the pickups. Kinman's, EMG's, Lollers, WCR, Bill Lawrence . Much more warmer and versatile tones then the standard strat pickups.

That goes for pretty much any guitar you buy unless they come with real duncans, dimarzios etc.

[Amotis]

That goes for pretty much any guitar you buy unless they come with real duncans, dimarzios etc.

Or they have really nice unique pickups that compliment that sound of the guitar; like jazzmasters or Jr90's or Reverands or something like that, and don't need to replace them.

I mean the high end often praised pickups really just go for that desired "uber" tone or to cancel noice. Which really doesn't always match. I'd rather have standard pickups with a unique guitar that uses those pickups.

[smellie_hippie]

I've already replaced my Strat pickups with EMGs. Oh.. and didn't Kurt play a custom "Jag-Stang"?

[Amotis]

I thought he had a jag with Dimarzio pickups.

Iono...he did break a lot of them. I know he uses some Japanese models just for that.

[ZombieRockStar]

Not that I know of. He used a Jag for Nevermind and also had that Mustang with the "vandalism" sticker that he used most of the rest of the time. *shrugs*

That' the Jaguar he's using in this video, right? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DW4VVVXSiEw&mode=related&search=)

After hearing a few clips of the Jazzmaster, I can say that I really want this guitar. That is a freaking amazing sound.

[Kraggi]

Heey....I just figured out why my wrist hurts when I play bass for a long time. I have a double jointed thumb, and apparently when I play bass my thumb is ina double jounty position.

Go figure.

[Amotis]

That' the Jaguar he's using in this video, right? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DW4VVVXSiEw&mode=related&search=)


Yup. http://images.quizilla.com/L/Luke9009/1071261162_icturesjag.jpg

Also, FdL, do you know where I could get me some Smog tabs? :smalleek:

[Rainspattered]

I, conversely, would specifically avoid a guitar associated with Msr.Cobain. I like my musicians not to be moronic hyperbolists who find it prudent to "despise popularity" while courting by raping their art for Wal-Mart consumption, but mayhap that is only me.

[Amotis]

Really? I thought musicians made music.

[Penguinsushi]

I, conversely, would specifically avoid a guitar associated with Msr.Cobain. I like my musicians not moronic hyperbolists who find it prudent to "despise popularity" while courting by raping their art for Wal-Mart consumption, but mayhap that is only me.

hmm. I don't particularly love nirvana, nor do I like a lot of music that is considered 'popular'.

On the other hand, I don't typically dislike artists merely because they're popular.

In much the same way, I would not avoid something simply because it's associated with something (in this case, a musician) that I dislike.

I find a great irony here: to act via reaction to something disliked is still defining oneself by it, if inversely.

:smallwink:

~PS

[Rainspattered]

Really? I thought musicians made music.

Indeed. I do not recall contradicting this statement, unless you consider idiocy, exaggeration, and self-contradiction components of the definition of "music."

Penguinishi: I don't understand what irony is inherent in avoiding something one dislikes. Unless you find rationality ironic in the face of a universe that is technically chaotic and growing ever moreso by the process of entroy, I fail to see your point.

[Penguinsushi]

Penguin[su]shi: I don't understand what irony is inherent in avoiding something one dislikes. Unless you find rationality ironic in the face of a universe that is technically chaotic and growing ever moreso by the process of entro[p]y, I fail to see your point.

I didn't say avoiding something you don't like was ironic. Everyone avoids things they don't like.

What I *do* find ironic is when people react to something they dislike so much that they begin avoiding other things - things that they would not necessarily dislike, except for their association.

You didn't say you don't like Fender's Jaguar guitars, but you said you'd still be inclined to avoid them merely because of their association to a musician you dislike. What I find ironic is the fact that, in your attempt to dissociate with this musician, you are still letting him define you - because his aspects are still influencing your behavior through reaction.

edit: I have been told I have an over-developed sense of irony. Don't worry too much about it. :smallwink:

~PS

[Amotis]

But you said you don't like your musicians that way. But musicians make music.

[Rainspattered]

But you said you don't like your musicians that way. But musicians make music.
I'm hoping your aiming for a Pinteresque, non-sequiter dialog. Musicians do indeed make music. I prefer those who make music, hereafter refered to as musicians, not to possess such traits.


What I *do* find ironic is when people react to something they dislike so much that they begin avoiding other things - things that they would not necessarily dislike, except for their association.
I fail to see the irony in avoiding associated dislikes; I dislike nazism, so I dislike swastickas. Swastickas themselves are not inherently unpleasant; while not the most aesthetically pleasing of symbols, there's nothing hideous about the mere combination of lines. Yet, because of their association, I find them distasteful.
Additionally, I'm fairly certain you are misusing irony, from the way you're speaking. Something that is strange is not ironic. Letting something rule your life with the degree to which you do not want it ruling your life is ironic; people who are so concerned with liquor ruling their lives they refuse to eat food cooked in liquor, though all the alcohol cooks out of it.
Disscociating with someone is my goal, therefore I avoid association with them. This, for one, does not constitute "ruling my life" (I hope you do not assume the purchasing or not purchasing of a Fender Jaguar is my raison d'etre), and secondly, has nothing to do with whether or not decisions are defined by them. When one wishes not to emulate somone, one makes decisions that are not emulating the person's decisions. This is, again, simple reasoning.

[FdL]

Zombie, the japanese reisuess of the strats are supposed to be less accurate reproductions of the vintage thing sound wise. I understand that the pickups are a little different from the originals, and so they have a slightly thinner sound, as opposed to the warmer, fatter sound of the vintages. That said, the tone is still light years away from a strat (or I wouldn't like it because I don't really like strats).

I've never played another jazzmaster, but compared to my tele and my other strat-ish guitar it's a totally different sound, much deeper and at the same time it has a lot of attack, I love that. It's has something to do with the tele too, that's why I like it.

Don't know, unless I record some sound clips it's hard to tell, but then again there's so much stuff which alters the tone that is not going to be very faithful...I mean amp, eq settings in my multiFX which I haven't touched for 10 years...Microphone colouring, soundcard, etc.

Yesterday I looked up the prize of a jazzmaster, and was appalled. A JM like the one Amotis has, a 62 American Vintage Series current reissue is like $1,400 new :S Ok, I thought it'd be around a thousand, so no surprise. But I saw one here in Argentina they're asking like 9,000 pesos (around $3,000!!!!) Are they ****ing mad??? What are they overcharching you, import customs, taxes or what??? See what I mean when I say that big brand american instruments are terribly expensive here?
My car cost me like 13,000 pesos :S Go figure.

So I thought it would be awful if something happened to her, I'd have a terrible time finding another used one. I got depressed. And I thought of what cheaper guitar out there sounds and feels like a jazzmaster.

There's those Squier look-alikes, one from Stag that doesn't even try beyond body shape...Those Surfcasters, or some from Fernandes, even one called Talman...But those are variations and at best have humbuckers or lipstick pickups...

It's a unique instrument, with all that means.


Amotis, sadly I don't know any place where to find Smog tabs. I can help you figure out any song though, I'm actually really good at that, and I could make a tab of any song with a little time. I'm still having trouble figuring out Of Montreal's "Everything disappears when you come around" :S That's a tough cookie. It has like a hundred chord changes.

I know how to play "Cold blooded old times" (duh), "Blood Red Bird" (a party favorite), and "I was a stranger"..."Red Apples"..."To be of use"...But those are either simple strum-alongs or super minimalistic plucking dirges...

But the other day I found this site (http://www.nightlight.ws/personal/tabs) while looking for the Of Montreal song (which he got wrong). It has stuff I haven't seen anywhere else, so check it out. I'll see if I can find Smog tabs elsewhere though.

[Penguinsushi]

We're pretty far off topic here, but oh well... :smallwink:


I'm hoping your aiming for a Pinteresque, non-sequiter dialog. Musicians do indeed make music. I prefer those who make music, hereafter refered to as musicians, not to possess such traits.

Ah, yes - but those two things are fairly inextricable. Very, very few people can see the latter without thinking of the former (or vice-versa). Also, you almost never see one without the other. Such is not the case with the situation we started with.


Additionally, I'm fairly certain you are misusing irony, from the way you're speaking. Something that is strange is not ironic. Letting something rule your life with the degree to which you do not want it ruling your life is ironic; people who are so concerned with liquor ruling their lives they refuse to eat food cooked in liquor, though all the alcohol cooks out of it. Disscociating with someone is my goal, therefore I avoid association with them. This, for one, does not constitute "ruling my life" (I hope you do not assume the purchasing or not purchasing of a Fender Jaguar is my raison d'etre), and secondly, has nothing to do with whether or not decisions are defined by them. When one wishes not to emulate somone, one makes decisions that are not emulating the person's decisions. This is, again, simple reasoning.

I think you may be taking this a bit further than I was. I didn't make the assertion that Kurt Cobain is ruling your life because you're not buying his guitar. I'm not planning on buying a Jaguar either - I don't particularly like them.

Your liquor example is most like what I was getting at. I still maintain that, if your only reason for not buying the guitar was because Kobain played it, I would say that your actions would be defined by that which you are trying to avoid - which, to me, is ironic. Very much like your liquor example, just with some disparity in degree.

I would have thought this was assumed, but perhaps I should state that I highly doubt that'd be your only reason for not buying the guitar - but it was the only reason you gave, and hence it's the only one I can comment on.

~PS

[ZombieRockStar]

@FdL: Thanks. I think my best bet is to find a Japanese re-issue and see what I can do about getting the pickups replaced, or to try and find a used American. I'm going into the store tomorrow, so we'll see.

As I said, I heard some sound clips and just fell in love.

[FdL]

Get/try a japanese one like mine and tell me what you think aout the tone, because I really like it and maybe you won't need to have the pickups replaced.

Hmmm...I think I could replace the pickups too. But it would be expensive and I don't know if it would be worthwhile. I'm not for modding guitars. I fear that changing something will make them so different that I don't like them anymore. I've got to get a Mustang bridge though. My 5th string has less sustain than a banjo.

About not liking a Jaguar because Cobain used it, these guitars are so good that you shouldn't even care really. And you have to admit that he had good taste in guitars. He chose some that made him cooler (note: I still think Nirvana is overrated).

[Amotis]

@FdL - I've heard that the Japanese imports were a bit brighter and more strat-y then regular jazzmasters. But I've never played one and they say the same thing about reissues and vintages. So; :smalltongue:

Surfcasters? :smallyuk:

I'll ask around the shop for any replacable jazzmaster models. It's good to know...but don't go breaking that one. It really is unique. There's all these different strats, teles, what not. Custom ones, etc etc. Millions of 'em. But jazzmasters. Jazzmasters. :smallamused:

I was actually trying to learn "I break horses"

Usually I get something of a mix of ear and watching clips. But youtube only has one... And it's very etheral strumming of his. So it's not like I can imagine the chord progression over and over. It's very stop time and train of thought.

That is a hella of a site. Awesome, thanks.

Also, don't replace your pickups if they don't need replacing. You happy? Good, keep it that way.

[Dispozition]

Blah...All you people liking fenders...What do you like about them?

I can't stand the feel of the bodies and the necks. I also dislike most of the pickup setups on them.

Ibanez are much better (imo :P) Sharper, heavier (I think >.<) bodies, smoother necks (even on the lower end models) and the pickups are just brilliant for all modes of playing.

[Penguinsushi]

Blah...All you people liking fenders...What do you like about them?

I can't stand the feel of the bodies and the necks. I also dislike most of the pickup setups on them.

Ibanez are much better (imo :P) Sharper, heavier (I think >.<) bodies, smoother necks (even on the lower end models) and the pickups are just brilliant for all modes of playing.

I used to be a much bigger fan of Fender guitars than I am now. Over time though, I found that I liked a mellower sound than I could get out of the one I had - in my experience, Fenders seem to have a kind of tin to their tone that I kind of quit liking after a while.

I've never played an Ibanez though. Perhaps I'll pick one up sometime to see how it feels. I don't care for the look of most of the body styles, however...

~PS

[skyclad]

Blah...All you people liking fenders...What do you like about them?

I can't stand the feel of the bodies and the necks. I also dislike most of the pickup setups on them.

Ibanez are much better (imo :P) Sharper, heavier (I think >.<) bodies, smoother necks (even on the lower end models) and the pickups are just brilliant for all modes of playing.

I don't really like Fender or Ibanez. Of course their high end models are both EXCELLENT but I prefer Jackson for metal ;) But a fender with some nice pick ups are heaven if you want to play hippie music :D

[Dispozition]

@PS: The bodies are what make it for me. Pointy = good, smooth = not so good. Also, if you don't like metal, don't pick up an Ibanez. They're predominantly metal guitars, but they can play other genres very well as well.

@Skyclad: I've never heard of Jackson, but I know that ESP are another awesome metal guitar brand. Ibanez' middle range guitars are also great. I have one and it plays better than a lot of more expensive guitars by other brands.

[Penguinsushi]

@PS: The bodies are what make it for me. Pointy = good, smooth = not so good. Also, if you don't like metal, don't pick up an Ibanez. They're predominantly metal guitars, but they can play other genres very well as well.

Ah, I see. Not to change the subject, but what exactly is metal these days? I've noted that genres seem to change, and I don't exactly keep up with any kind of 'scene'.

~PS

[Shadow of the Sun]

The Artcore series are good jazz guitars, as well.

[Kraggi]

Ah, I see. Not to change the subject, but what exactly is metal these days? I've noted that genres seem to change, and I don't exactly keep up with any kind of 'scene'.

~PS

It's drop D tuning with the bass player peddling E or F.

[Amotis]

Fenders are heavier guitars.

The artcore are based off of a Gretsch 6120. So not really jazz at all, it's a Chet Guitar. Blues/rock/country. Clapton, Pete, and Duane played 'em. Not jazz.

[The Prince of Cats]

Blah...All you people liking fenders...What do you like about them?
There is a sound to a strat especially which you don't quite get from other guitars, not even the knock-offs. (and I am not talking about the 50Hz hum...) The 'cheap' way it is made, with basic single-coil pick-ups and the neck bolted on instead of glued leads to a distinctive sound. It is not for everyone, nor even for every song, but it is a well-used and well-known sound.

The other reason is that I have never quite found another guitar that takes a few knocks like a strat. It is a solid back-up guitar, simply because it survives being dropped off the stage or being used to violate the bass-drum.

[SDF]

Never cared too much for Ibanez myself. If I wanted metal I would go with ESP or Schecter. And I HATE active pickups, mostly because you get one sound out of them regardless if they are in a piece of OSB or if they are put in a beautiful African mahogany body. My favorite after market pickups are Bare Knuckle Pickups. They make some of the best sounding soap bars I have ever heard.

[smellie_hippie]

How 'bout opinions on acoustics?

I've played the very high end Martin guitars and can definately see (and hear) their worth. I'm not a fan of Ovation... I just don't like that rounded body on the backside.:smallyuk: Takamine seems alright, but I'm still not sure. I only think about those because they're the only 12-string in the store when I go browsing.

I've got my eye on an Alvarez. Mostly because it's within budget. :smallamused: It's acoustic/electric... and I have heard some of the argument about "putting a chunk of electronics in the body ruins the sound/tone". I haven't noticed it, so what's everyone else's opinion?

[Shadow of the Sun]

One of my friends has a $1000 Tanglewood acoustic electric, and it sounds just fine to me. Don't worry about it.

[smellie_hippie]

One of my friends has a $1000 Tanglewood acoustic electric, and it sounds just fine to me. Don't worry about it.

Yeah... um... :smalleek: the Alvarez I'm looking at is about $400. It was much easier to buy all my nice new gear when I was single and had no children.

No new $1000 guitar for this hippie for a good long while. :smallfrown:

[Shadow of the Sun]

Heh, if I get in a good band I'm immediately getting a loan so I can buy a custom Rickenbacker 4001. One of my friends is saving up $3000 for a custom Ibanez JEM without the monkey-grip.

This is the one with the Tanglewood, who bought it off of his brother for $185.

[smellie_hippie]

Blah...All you people liking fenders...What do you like about them?

I can't stand the feel of the bodies and the necks. I also dislike most of the pickup setups on them.

Ibanez are much better (imo :P) Sharper, heavier (I think >.<) bodies, smoother necks (even on the lower end models) and the pickups are just brilliant for all modes of playing.

I had a low end Ibanez as one of my first guitars about 15 years ago. It was fine, and played pretty well. In later years, I've thought the the neck was too thin. I don't play fast enough to necessitate such a paper thin neck.

I play Fenders because I think they have a warmer tone. There's something mystical about it. I look at Ibanez as "all electronics"... but missing it's soul. Yeah that's just me, but that's how I see it.

I agree that some Fenders have a neck like a Louisville Slugger... but I don't play those either. :smallamused:

[Penguinsushi]

Yeah... um... :smalleek: the Alvarez I'm looking at is about $400. It was much easier to buy all my nice new gear when I was single and had no children.

No new $1000 guitar for this hippie for a good long while. :smallfrown:

Heard. Though I think it was slightly used, I paid about that (~$400) for my Seagull, which I love.

As for acoustic/electric - I've not noticed any real tone weirdness. Mine doesn't have a pickup in it, but a former roommate of mine had a very similar guitar with a pickup that sounded really good too.

I will say that built-in pickups sound better through the soundboard than sound-hole insert pickups. Ultimately though, while it limits your mobility, I think you get the best sound through a sound system my mic'ing the actual guitar as opposed to using any kind of pickup.

Guess it really depends on how you're planning to use it...

~PS

[ZombieRockStar]

Get/try a japanese one like mine and tell me what you think aout the tone, because I really like it and maybe you won't need to have the pickups replaced.

Hmmm...I think I could replace the pickups too. But it would be expensive and I don't know if it would be worthwhile. I'm not for modding guitars. I fear that changing something will make them so different that I don't like them anymore. I've got to get a Mustang bridge though. My 5th string has less sustain than a banjo.

My choice ended up being a '62 vintage American, (http://www.fender.com/products/search.php?partno=0100800808) 3-colour sunburst that I'll be getting in August. Had to have the store special-order and it's gonna cost me quite a bit too, $2000 Can, which is actually less than Fender's listed price. I justify spending nearly double what I planned by saying that I'll have the money once I'm done working and I really want this guitar.

I'm gonna have a weird collection: really cheap acoustic, violin, viola and piano; expensive electric.

I still don't know what I think of the Japanese ones, since I didn't get a chance to try one.

Fortunately I think I've found a good amp for cheap on ebay. Fender Pro Junior (I swear I don't do everything Amotis does—we got different colours, see?—but we're still clones :smallamused:) that'll only cost me $100.

I have no particular desire for a Fender; this is actually the only guitar of theirs that appeals to me. I don't feel any like for Strats or Teles, really.

[smellie_hippie]

My choice ended up being a '62 vintage American, (http://www.fender.com/products/search.php?partno=0100800808) 3-colour sunburst that I'll be getting in August.
*snip*
I don't feel any like for Strats or Teles, really.

Nice guitar. No love for strats? Blasphemer!! :smallamused:

[Amotis]

How 'bout opinions on acoustics?

I've played the very high end Martin guitars and can definately see (and hear) their worth. I'm not a fan of Ovation... I just don't like that rounded body on the backside.:smallyuk: Takamine seems alright, but I'm still not sure. I only think about those because they're the only 12-string in the store when I go browsing.

I've got my eye on an Alvarez. Mostly because it's within budget. :smallamused: It's acoustic/electric... and I have heard some of the argument about "putting a chunk of electronics in the body ruins the sound/tone". I haven't noticed it, so what's everyone else's opinion?

Well here's the thing (acoustics are much much harder to talk about then electrics). There certainly is brand recognition with acoustics. Almost more so then electrics. Martin and Taylor are way up there (Gibson can be too), can get really expensive, sound very nice, but aren't always what you need. It's really because those companies have the resources to make and charge huge ammounts now. As opposed to pre-this century where their guitars where quite a crapshoot in finding a consistant one.

That being said; part of the value is in the name. Same with most things. If you're gonna place a price on it, to sell it what not, people look at the name as well.

As well as age. Wood ages and this is good. A vintage Guild is gonna outsound a new closed off Martin. Just ask my 40 year old Yamaha. It matters quite a bit (though once you get up to 2000 dollar guitars, not so much).

Especially if you're only want to spend 400. I wouldn't really look at the names. Just find what sounds good. There's some Martin reissues being made now that are being hailed. Guild is always known as the gutiar company that matchs Martin and Taylor, especially in the lower end (< $1000) guitars. As the prices go higher the gap widens in the favor of the bigger companies, but at what you're looking for. Not much.

What? That didn't help much? You want names?

Fine; Larrivee OM-03 (get it used), Martin 000-15, Guild JF30 BLD (used, try to get a cutaway one too), and a Tanglewood tw1000.

Tried to shove a bit of varity in there because tone is really subjective. Try try try first. Keep your eyes out for Guild and S + P too.

For acoustic electric; I've always kinda strayed from them as I'd rather mic a guitar then plug it in. But as for "messing with tone"? No, not really. Depends on the guitar and the company really, but mostly it doesn't really matter. Alvarez I've only really heard about for their classical guitars; which are basically cheap and beginner. Which isn't bad.

@Zombie: Cool, you're paying more then I payed for mine. :smallamused:

I'm glad you came to the jazzmaster side. We're quite cool. And exclusive.

Glad you got a tube amp too. That'll get you on the right foot fast.

[ZombieRockStar]

@Zombie: Cool, you're paying more then I payed for mine. :smallamused:

I'm glad you came to the jazzmaster side. We're quite cool. And exclusive.

Glad you got a tube amp too. That'll get you on the right foot fast.

You got yours used, though. I couldn't find one used, though I didn't look hard enough, but they do seem rare guitars. The guy said that Fender only puts out about 12 or so a year; that right?


Nice guitar. No love for strats? Blasphemer!! :smallamused:

:smalltongue: No, I don't like Strats, really. Not for playing, at any rate.

[Amotis]

You got yours used, though. I couldn't find one used, though I didn't look hard enough, but they do seem rare guitars. The guy said that Fender only puts out about 12 or so a year; that right?

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e367/amotis/dubious.gif No...

Wth?

[smellie_hippie]

Especially if you're only want to spend 400. I wouldn't really look at the names. Just find what sounds good. There's some Martin reissues being made now that are being hailed. Guild is always known as the gutiar company that matchs Martin and Taylor, especially in the lower end (< $1000) guitars. As the prices go higher the gap widens in the favor of the bigger companies, but at what you're looking for. Not much.

What? That didn't help much? You want names?

Fine; Larrivee OM-03 (get it used), Martin 000-15, Guild JF30 BLD (used, try to get a cutaway one too), and a Tanglewood tw1000.

Yeah... I know Martin and Taylor are the hailed way to go with acoustics. Guild has done a fine job with holding their own. You can walk into any guitar store and bump into Takamine, Ovation and Fender.

The ones you listed look like nice guitars... but I doubt my ability to find one local and actually lay my hands on it. I may be able to swing towards a Guild... but that remains to be seen.

Don't have the mic set-up, so that's why I'm leaning towards an acoustic/electric. I know it's not as pure... and please don't cringe if I say something about plugging it into my son's 30W cube amp. :smallamused:

[Amotis]

*shrug* Your choice but do you really want an acoustic/electric? Are you gigging or have some reason to have it?

[smellie_hippie]

Nope. Not gigging. I guess that makes it sound pretty wierd that I would want the electric component, huh? If I read your strange looks correctly... you are telling me that I should run away from the acoustic/electric, and just go for the cutaway acoustic. (Must be cutaway... can't be rounded back) :smallwink:

[Amotis]

Well I mean...it adds to the price. Plugging it into a crappy amp will just be making it only as good as the crappy amp. I mean some people have fun with acoustic/electrics, as well as having fun with EQ and pedals with 'em, but just for a simple acoustic why go electric?

Iono, I think it's really personal for me. I feel out of place just strapping on an electric/acoustic and playing. As opposed to walking out back outside, acoustic guitar, and just strumming/plucking along with some friends. It just seems more intimate. The guitar becomes more part of you. Instead of looking behind you to touch an amp. It's on your lap, in your hands.

But right, opinion of course. But I mean if you don't need it you kinda don't need to buy it.

[ZombieRockStar]

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e367/amotis/dubious.gif No...

Wth?

'kay...was he only talking about the American models, then? :smallconfused:

Or I might've heard wrong.

Funny smilie...:smallamused:

[Reptilus]

Your liquor example is most like what I was getting at. I still maintain that, if your only reason for not buying the guitar was because Kobain played it, I would say that your actions would be defined by that which you are trying to avoid - which, to me, is ironic. Very much like your liquor example, just with some disparity in degree.
That is ironic because the actions they take to achieve their goal achieve the opposite. I never said I wished to have no influence from Kurt Kobain, I said I did not wish to be like him. The irony disappears with this difference.

[Penguinsushi]

That is ironic because the actions they take to achieve their goal achieve the opposite. I never said I wished to have no influence from Kurt Kobain, I said I did not wish to be like him. The irony disappears with this difference.

*sigh*

Ok, sure. The semantics here are getting a little dull and seem to be going in circles. Nothing I said was meant to have an accusatory tone, and I didn't actually intend to start an arguement - though, in retrospect I probably should have seen it coming. Apologies; hope there are no hard feelings.

Also, am I talking to Rainspattered or Reptilus here? - there seems to have been a name switch...

~PS

[FdL]

Hey!!! Welcome to the Jazzmaster owners club, Zombie!! :D
Congratulations! I hope you get it soon and you can tell us how good it sounds.
You got the 3 color sunburst? With the red tortoise shell pickguard? Just like mine! It's my favorite color. IMHO all colors that have white pickguard are too "normal", though still fabulous, of course. My second favorite (of the current colors and excluding really weird stuff) is the creamy white one with the dark red pickguard.

@Dispozition:About liking Fenders or Ibanez instead, well, you said it. To me Ibanez are metal guitars, for what I call twiddlers. I dunno, it's like they're cold, they have no soul or warmth. I don't like superstrats or ultra-technical guitars like those Parkers, or PRS or those. I prefer unique guitars with a vintage look and an individual tone. I hate Flying V's, Explorers and other stupid looking guitars. I do like SGs a lot more than LPs, but that's because the Les Pauls are so commonplace.

I don't really like Fender per se, only in respect to what I said. I don't like Strats, though I have a guitar that's kinda like one (I blame it on YLT and my need for a hotter guitar to create feedback. I actually bought it for that, my Washburn BT-3, and it works. It looks cool too, like a strat but rounder and groovier, reminds me of some Rick. But blue looks way better). I like Teles, maybe for their contrast with strats, but also because of the sound and simplicity of controls. I hate anything with more than 1 Vol 1 Tone knob.
It took me years to get the hang of my jazz bass :s LOL.

Acoustics: I like my crappy Fender DG-6, but i was thinking of getting a better one, as I'd like to have an electric-acoustic to make it easier to record stuff. At least I'd have the option to plug it in.

But I feel is more difficult to buy an acoustic. Probably more than with electrics, there's a close relation between brand/price and quality. I'd love to have a smaller one, this one is a biggish dreadnought I think. There's some smaller bodied acoustics, I think Colin Meloy uses one. But they are not very popular in stores here. What are those called, Amotis?

[Amotis]

The Decemberists all have Martin's which the company gave them after they got all their crap stolen. Iono what size he uses though. It's probably the 3/4 bodies that you're talking about.

[FdL]

Those would be nice to have (scale, I'm not even dreaming of having a Martin :D). Mine is probably louder and has a different tone and feel, but it's still too clunky.

Edit: What about Mustangs, Amotis? What do they sound like? Ever played one? I hear they have a shorter scale, but don't know what that means. I once saw one and I think I tried it, but at that time I got really nervous when playing in public and didn't make anything of the guitar... :s I was like that, thankfully I got over it and now I openly recognize I'm a lousy player hahaha! Music shop assistants beware! :D

[Amotis]

Yeah, I know what you mean. I've grown up on a classical so most guitars feel large under my arm.

I know Fdl is self taught but how many of you have a musical background? How many of you know how to read music? Curious, you see.

[FdL]

My first guitar was a nylon string one, a lot smaller than others I 've played, so it must have been 3/4 scale. It was good to learn on nylon strings cause they were really hard and I ended up with really tought fingers :) If you prick them, they don't even bleed :p

[Amotis]

Edit: What about Mustangs, Amotis? What do they sound like? Ever played one? I hear they have a shorter scale, but don't know what that means. I once saw one and I think I tried it, but at that time I got really nervous when playing in public and didn't make anything of the guitar... :s I was like that, thankfully I got over it and now I openly recognize I'm a lousy player hahaha! Music shop assistants beware! :D

It means it has a neck 3/4's the length of a regular one. It means lower tension on the strings (attack is changed), a kinda accented (muddily) bass, and a clearer and snappier at higher-mid register.

No idea what they sound like. Methinks a cross between a jazzmaster, jag, and a musicmaker.

also, random dobro picture:
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e367/amotis/Triconegravir1_big.jpg

[Penguinsushi]

My first guitar was a nylon string classical as well. A Sigma (Martin), i believe. It's my dad's.

I don't have that much of a 'musical history' - at least not in traditional terms. I am mostly self-taught. I took lessons for a year or so when i was 14ish, got frustrated with my teacher who was too methodical for me, and started teaching myself some Clapton stuff. After a couple years of that and starting/playing in a couple highschoolish bands, I started taking some more lessons.

I can read music *almost* well enough to be dangerous: that is, I can figure my way through it, but it will take me a long time to do. I'm much better at figuring things out by ear.

~PS

[Shadow of the Sun]

I've been classically trained in a musical instrument for eight years of my fifteen. I can read music just fine, but I'm too poor to afford a bass teacher, so I'm teaching myself bass.

[ZombieRockStar]

I'm not sure what colour they ordered for the pickguard...a variety wasn't offered, even on Fender's website. If it's white, I'll probably change it. White pickguards on sunburst guitars don't look good.

I'm self-taught on guitar, but I've had proper training on violin/viola since I was 5, and a little bit of voice training, so I can read music.

[FdL]

I'm not sure what colour they ordered for the pickguard...a variety wasn't offered, even on Fender's website. If it's white, I'll probably change it. White pickguards on sunburst guitars don't look good.
.

Yeah, you're right, the current 3 color sunburst edition has white pickguard. Which doesn't look so bad, but it's too common-looking even for sunbursts. I don't dislike it, my jazz bass is like that, but it looks way better with a darker pickguard, tortoise shell if possible.

[ZombieRockStar]

I dunno. I'll see when it comes in. But the tortoise shell is definitely more attractive.

Anyways, effects question: considering how much money I'm about to spend, for the first little while I'm probably not going to have much money to spend on a set up and may just have to plug straight into the amp. Is there a good, relatively inexpensive multi-effects board I could buy, or should I go with individual pedals (starting with reverb)?

Anyway, I change my mind. Suddenly the Strat does sound interesting after listening to Hank Marvin play one.

[smellie_hippie]

Anyway, I change my mind. Suddenly the Strat does sound interesting after listening to Hank Marvin play one.

:smallbiggrin: :smallbiggrin: :smallbiggrin:
One of us. One of us. One of us.

As for other questions/comments tossed out here. I can't read music, despite having played trombone for 8 years. Then again... that was 15 years ago. I play by ear and by tab.

I had guitar lessons when I was 15ish as well (for about 8 months) and again for about 5 months when I turned 30. The latter lessons were with a good instructor who didn't feel like he had a lot to teach me. He recommended a book to get, but I have since forgotten. (Still checking on the book Amotis recommended)

I'll keep you more informed about the upcoming acoustic purchase. Should be near the end of July... if I can trim other spending. :smallamused:

[Amotis]

Keep in mind that the book was specifically suggested for your situation. I don't know if much people outside of your circumstances will find the win-all use of it.

Can't go wrong with this list though:
Chord Chemistry - Ted Greene
The Advancing Guitarist - Mick Goodrick
Patterns for Jazz - Jerry Coker
Masters of the Telecaster - Arlen Roth
20th Century Harmony - Vincent Persichetti
Polyrythmns - Pete Magadini
Drum Wisdom - Bob Moses
Thesaurus Of Scales & Melodic Patterns - Nicolas Slonimsky
Harmonic Mechanisms, Vols 1-3 - George Van Eps
Exploring Jazz Guitar - Jim Hall
Improvisation - Derek Bailey
Arcana - Various, edited by John Zorn
The Harvard Dictionary Of Music
Reading Studies for Guitar - William Levitt
Advanced Reading Studies for Guitar - William Levitt
Musics of Many Cultures - Various, edited by Elizabeth May
The Shaping Forces Of Music - Ernst Toch
Brazilian Guitar - Nelson Faria
Intervallic Patterns - Joe Diorio
Linear Expressions - Pat Martino
Pumping Nylon - Scott Tennant
The Art Of Practicing - Alice Artzt
Jack Zucker's "Sheets of Sound"
Basically anything Mel Bay
"Harmonic Experience" by W.A. Mathieu*

*Not really a guitar book but a great theory one that any musician should grab.

@ZRS - I wouldn't buy any FX yet until you know what kinda music you wanna play, how your guitar sounds in your hands, and what sounds you wanna go for. Personally I'd make sure you have a good cable too. Not just some crap the salesperson throws in for free.

Edito: >< but you know...tube amps and OD always equals aural butter... :smallamused:

[Kraggi]

Amps are not big trucks.

[Penguinsushi]

@ZRS - I wouldn't buy any FX yet until you know what kinda music you wanna play, how your guitar sounds in your hands, and what sounds you wanna go for. Personally I'd make sure you have a good cable too. Not just some crap the salesperson throws in for free.

Amotis speaks truth. I've had trouble with crappy cables giving me all sorts of pop and hiss from bad connections. Took me a while to figure out that was the problem too. So yeah, buy a nice, solid one - and you may want to get a new one every few years or so, depending on your usage and environment.


As for other questions/comments tossed out here. I can't read music, despite having played trombone for 8 years. Then again... that was 15 years ago. I play by ear and by tab.

Oh yeah. Forgot about those. I can read tabs alright, though they still take me a little while to figure out. I'm better at it than staff, but I remain a mostly trial-and-error-by-ear musician.

~PS

[FdL]

Oh, I can read tabs fluently.

[Amotis]

Me too. I actually can read them quite well because the guitar is a really handy easy instrument. You can assume hand positions a lot and predict the next not or chord or whatever. Unlike a piano where everything is laid out before you, guitar has tendencies for fingers and hand positions so it's leans itself to sight reading. Like you can feel your pinky go there or whatnot. Almost can guess the next note.

That being said I'm not very good at sight reading sheet music for guitar. :smallamused: First position = decent. Beyond that? It's a crap shoot.

[Shadow of the Sun]

You know a song for bass that I really want to learn? Portrait of Tracy by Jaco Pastorius. How he managed it without frets is amazing to me. Victor Wooten's version of Amazing Grace is another I'd like to learn, as well.

[Amotis]

I've always adored James Jamerson's work.

[Shadow of the Sun]

You cannot forget Stanley Clarke, either.

[Kraggi]

Yeah...I've just decided to give up on learning songs Jaco plays for now. I tried once, and exploded.

[FdL]

Me too. I actually can read them quite well because the guitar is a really handy easy instrument. You can assume hand positions a lot and predict the next not or chord or whatever. Unlike a piano where everything is laid out before you, guitar has tendencies for fingers and hand positions so it's leans itself to sight reading. Like you can feel your pinky go there or whatnot. Almost can guess the next note.


Yes. I've always thought the same, only I've expressed it in a simpler (read: retarded :p) way: with the piano you have all notes in order at your fingertips; with the guitar you have to find them.

What I like about playing guitar is the relative predictability of it. Which is a limitation, of course. I play the piano the exact same way, really.

[Shadow of the Sun]

This (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CR6t47pV8Qc&NR=1) is a video of Victor Wooten playing Amazing Grace. I'm astounded at how well he plays, it boggles the mind. The speed he can play at only using his fingers is amazing, as well. Mainly because he uses hit thumb in a way very similar to a pick.

[Amotis]

Yes. I've always thought the same, only I've expressed it in a simpler (read: retarded :p) way: with the piano you have all notes in order at your fingertips; with the guitar you have to find them.

What I like about playing guitar is the relative predictability of it. Which is a limitation, of course. I play the piano the exact same way, really.

Yeah, I went piano then guitar but when I first starting writing for guitar...it's quite hard. Especially chords. In that aspect the guitar is pretty limited.
Like this chord progression I wanted to put in a recent piece was translated as:
--------------5
1--1-----1---1
2------------2
5--3-----3---2
7--3-----5---0
5--1--5--6----

And...kinda impossible...

Voicings really have to be messed around with and I can really tell why most composers didn't touch guitar and only a choice few are making their name as the big cats of classical guitar. And why a hella lot of pieces are just transposed concertos for different instruments. *shrug* You really have to know the instrument to properly write for it...which kinda sucks.

[ZombieRockStar]

When learning a new piece (that isn't just straight chords) I prefer having both standard notation and tabs, since tabs are easier to read but I usually need some sense of the rhythm. Unfortunately, since I get a lot of music from the internet, that's not possible and I have to memorize the rhythm by listening a lot, which I'm not so good at. I'd prefer learning from the sheet music instead of tabs. Especially if it's melody, because I'd like to decide by myself which position sounds and feels best.

I'd say piano (especially the left hand) and most other instruments have a predictability to them as well, but with the way guitar is based around chords makes it different from classical instruments, which are based more around scales.

Oh, and after checking, the Jazzmaster I'm getting comes with a brown shell pickguard. So, yay. No colour-clashing for me.

[FdL]

Yay for the pickguard! Take a picture of it when you get it so we can enjoy its beauty, please ;) I'm in the process of taking some pics of my gear and uploading it too.

As for figuring out songs (not pieces because that would requiere a form of notation, at least for me), I can do it by ear alone. Somehow it's pretty easy to me figuring the chords and notes. I don't have a technique, but I usually find the root notes of the chords and I already know if it's major or minor and whether it's some of the inversions I can recognize.

Which brings me to the other thing about songs in guitar: the instrument itself and the way it's played, added to considerations of genre, makes it easier to predict what the chord progression is.

In a way that's why I like stuff like Of Montreal, because it has so many chord changes, and you really don't know where the melody is going to go next. Which I find refreshing, and though it's challenging, it's a rewarding listen. Try any song from my favorite album, "Coquelicot Asleep In The Poppies".

[smellie_hippie]

Hey all, I have a quick question. What do you do to help keep your callouses when you are...... away from your guitar. I am heading out of town for vacation, and will not have my strat for about a solid week.

I know if I had been loyal for the past 15 years, and practised everyday I would already have "scar tissue" and not need to worry. As it is, I have just gotten my callouses back to a point where I can play for a solid 2-3 hours without the slightest protest from my fingertips. (finger strength is a different matter).

So anyway... any suggestions? :smalleek:

[Amotis]

Rubbing alcohol on the fingers, I've heard works. Keeps the skin dry. As is keeping the fingertips active, like on surfaces like a string or rough or something. Personally investing in a travel guitar (or uke) is some good cheap money well spent for me.

[FdL]

Hmmm...I used to put my fingertips on a metal lamp that gets really hot, but that was just playing, don't know if it helped make the callous (sp?) harder. It didn't burn, though, it was a stupid/funny thing to do.

[The Prince of Cats]

I still don't have very good callouses. I tend to have to take breaks when I am playing at rehearsals, choosing the order we play in so that we play a finger-friendly song after any of the painful ones.

On the other hand, I (like many guitarists) feel no pain when I am on the stage and playing. It stings like Hell afterwards, but I can go for the whole set without even thinking about the pain.

[Shadow of the Sun]

My friend Blaise has no feeling in his fingertips any more due to how long he's been playing bass.

The fact that he uptuned the low B string on his 5 string bass to an E and played with it at that high tension will also have something to do with it.

He literally ripped his fingertips off practicing.

[The Prince of Cats]

My friend the bassist (bassist for one of the bands I am in) actually used to bleed a lot when he was learning slap-bass. His fingers just did not develop callouses thick enough to survive what he was doing and that and yanking out chunks of fingernail tended to lead to bloodshed.

I mean, it made me feel lucky. The worst I ever had was sparks from a poorly-earthed amp...

[Shadow of the Sun]

One of my other friends had to contend with a numb tongue- he was playing with his teeth, and he managed to get his tongue caught in his pickup. It was funny.

My friend Levi, who's been playing for 1 year and 4 months is in the process of teaching himself a piece that I doubt he'll be able to play- Paganini's 24th Caprice. By ear.

What he's learned so far is good, though.

[El Jaspero, the Pirate King]

Hey all, I have a quick question. What do you do to help keep your callouses when you are...... away from your guitar. I am heading out of town for vacation, and will not have my strat for about a solid week.

I know if I had been loyal for the past 15 years, and practised everyday I would already have "scar tissue" and not need to worry. As it is, I have just gotten my callouses back to a point where I can play for a solid 2-3 hours without the slightest protest from my fingertips. (finger strength is a different matter).

So anyway... any suggestions? :smalleek:

Buy a travel guitar! Seriously, you can get them on Ebay for like $15 or something crazy; Ceika picked one up and says it's surprisingly not terrible. I should ask her what that thing actuall was, hrm...

[zeratul]

I have a Hondo bass ,a Kustom bass. Rock rock on

[ZombieRockStar]

*pokes thread*

On the subject of dream guitars, I would love to make my own from scratch, no matter how crappy it may be. Like Brian May did.

I'm considering just buying one of those cheap kits (seriously, like $100 only) of some sort of Les Paul/Telecaster knock-off and maybe replacing the crappy pickups they put in. Lousy guitar, but I would love it. And paint it all avante-garde punk-like.

I think I would really an ES-335 as well, maybe. It's probably the only Gibson guitar I would ever want. (...of all the signature models I would want, a "Billie Joe Armstrong signature Les Paul" is not one of them...*shoots Green Day*)

[FdL]

I'm not much for building a custom guitar, because frankly, there are so many variables for doing it, but there are also millions of different guitars...

Speaking of teles and LPs, I once saw a really neat looking guitar that was shaped like a LP but with everything else like a tele. I think it had shiny chromed humbuckers...But the pickguard was totally tele. Now I *have* to find that pic.

Have I said already that one of my dream guitars would be a '72 Tele Thinline?


*pokes thread*

On the subject of dream guitars, I would love to make my own from scratch, no matter how crappy it may be. Like Brian May did.

I'm considering just buying one of those cheap kits (seriously, like $100 only) of some sort of Les Paul/Telecaster knock-off and maybe replacing the crappy pickups they put in. Lousy guitar, but I would love it. And paint it all avante-garde punk-like.

I think I would really an ES-335 as well, maybe. It's probably the only Gibson guitar I would ever want. (...of all the signature models I would want, a "Billie Joe Armstrong signature Les Paul" is not one of them...*shoots Green Day*)

Yeah, they make signature models out of any hack lately. And Billie Joe Armstrong is ****ing Hendrix compared to the dude from Blink 182...and he's got his signature model...Dumb as his band, it's a strat with a single pickup :s Well...

[Shadow of the Sun]

I'm not too large a fan of signature models. Don't ask me why. But if I was going to get one (guitar, not bass) it would be the SRV Stratocaster.

[Dispozition]

If I ever get a signature model, it'll be an Ibanez L7. Lead guitarist from slipknot uses it. Best damn metal guitar out there, and it's blood red!

This'll do me in the mean time though (http://www.ibanez.co.jp/eg_page.php?PAGE_ID=471&COLOR=CL02&AREA_ID=3)

[Amotis]

Sig models are made for going for other people's sounds.

Why? :smallconfused:

I've been on my acoustic all month.
So here's a dream guitar. (http://www.borgesguitars.com/model_000-12.html)

Making a guitar would be cool. Even if it's just for the fact of saying you did it. I mean...it's only a bit of cash and hardware to make the step from "knowing all the technical stuff about guitars" to "making your own." A brave leap but still only a small one.

[zeratul]

This is my current bass, it's good aside from the tabs occasionally getting kinda sloppy.

http://proaudiomusic.com/images/H815BL_small.gif

[ZombieRockStar]

Not that I know much about basses, but that looks like a pretty decent straight-forward bass. Got any recording equipment so we can hear how it sounds?

I thought signature guitars were for rabid fanboys...like, seriously, who would want an Angus Young signature SG or a Geddy Lee jazz bass, no matter how much you like AC/DC or Rush.

I don't really have a dream guitar, just a bunch of guitars I'd like to have.

[FdL]

I don't know about signatures, it's not like someone is going to sound exactly like another human being, even with the same equipment...Just get a similar brand/model and you're set. Unless you're in a tribute band... :p Which is kinda lame I guess, in that it's a waste of potential musicianship that could be used to create new music, new sounds that could inspire others.

@Amotis: Great little guitar. Steel string, huh? I see you'd like a guitar that's a step between classical and steel-string. I don't know about the 12 frets though. Still it's lovely.

@Zeratul: Nice bass. I like the color, and a good old Precision always looks great. Though I think I really got used to my jazzbass and I'd hate to play one of those... :s Maybe I should get one of those hybrid Prc/Jazz basses...It's probably the thinner neck that I like.

[Amotis]

Me too. My dream guitar is rather dream guitars.

If I had the money I would spend it on exploring the millions of sonic possibilities out there. And investing in rooms to put all the crap in.

Yeah, steel string. I like the timbre of it. Iono, I'm a sucker for certain textures. But I want the classical depth. So that guitar. Fret space is cool with me. I...kinda just really want one. It's one of those things I have my sight set on completely. Before I die; I must have.

Cover bands are kinda for people who want gigs and to make a living as a musician.

[FdL]

Me too. My dream guitar is rather dream guitars.

Yeah, me too, I didn't understand what he meant. I mean, it's not just one. But if it were, it'd be my jazzmaster, of course.



If I had the money I would spend it on exploring the millions of sonic possibilities out there. And investing in rooms to put all the crap in.


It is a problem, you know. My music/computer room here is not that big and with the amps and all the junk that was already there to begin with, it's difficult to have every guitar available to play...I should hang them like they do in music shops hahaha (not the jazzmaster ¬¬)



Yeah, steel string. I like the timbre of it. Iono, I'm a sucker for certain textures. But I want the classical depth. So that guitar. Fret space is cool with me. I...kinda just really want one. It's one of those things I have my sight set on completely. Before I die; I must have.


I like the concept, it looks like a great guitar. It's supposed to have longer frets or you mean the neck is wider, when you talk about "fret space"?



Cover bands are kinda for people who want gigs and to make a living as a musician.

I guess so. I mean, it's not that bad if it's for the money, but dedicating your life to play exclusively music from one artist sounds like a sad prospect. I would like to have a band where I could play covers of cool songs, really diverse stuff. that would be cool. And as most people don't know about music, it would be new material for them. I mean, cover bands usually play songs that everybody know.

Ouch, my fingers hurt. I was playing bass to "She's not there" by The Zombies. Such a great song! I had never learned it before. It's not that difficult in theory, but it's kinda tricky technically. I have a problem with my right hand, I have to work on my finger technique to make everything sound even and clear.
I love the Zombies! It's incredible the display of musicianship these guys put in their songs. Right now I'm loving the bass parts, I like his style.

[Amotis]

Well 000-12 means a 000 body size and 12 frets to the body. So basically the common classical set up. Just image a non-orchestra model, a non-cut away, and a non-dreadnought and the last shape you think of is the 000-12. I was just talking about the 12 frets to the body thing because I guess people sometimes don't like that. Iono, I do.

Wilco is a great band to cover I think. Just...fun. *plays California Stars*

I like The Zombies too. Just a cool old band that kinda sneaks up on your out of no where.

[FdL]

Well 000-12 means a 000 body size and 12 frets to the body. So basically the common classical set up. Just image a non-orchestra model, a non-cut away, and a non-dreadnought and the last shape you think of is the 000-12. I was just talking about the 12 frets to the body thing because I guess people sometimes don't like that. Iono, I do.


It's a pretty uncommon guitar then. Is it from a renowned brand?



Wilco is a great band to cover I think. Just...fun. *plays California Stars*


*ashamed* I've yet to get into Mermaid Ave. But yeah, Wilco is nice to play because he's such a good songwriter. Quite traditional, solid like that but on the other hand he's very creative and expressive even with little resources. "Via Chicago" has like 3 chords and it's great. I learned to play "Jesus etc." on the acoustic and I might record it...



I like The Zombies too. Just a cool old band that kinda sneaks up on your out of no where.

Sure. I mean, it's probably totally non-cool, but really, what's not to like about the electric pianos, organs, twelve string guitars...Also the soulful singing and those tight jazzy drums...

[Amotis]

There were much more jazz-y then any of those other bands in that period and I really dig that. Uncool? ...but their name is The Zombies!

That's totally cool. :smallcool:

I really like Mermaid Ave I and II. Some stuff is boring and safe. Some just rock. I liked it. Maybe I like folk too much to have a certain connection to it outside of the musical aspect (it was very cool to have some old Woody lyrics brought to life), but I think there's some good tracks on there that will hit anyone. Plus Wilco's adopted a few of them as their own so they play 'em on tour too, which I think is cool too.

Wilco is just fun. Playing Kiss covers, beautiful and stoned.

Uncommon? Not really. It's just a classical guitar basically. Shape and fret wise. Besides that it's a pretty unique model. It's not so much a brand as a guitar maker. Like hand made. So it's a pretty big maker, and an even bigger model; made for Eric Schoenberg I believe. And heavily influenced some of the better Martin models.

So if I can find one, it should be pretty expensive.

[FdL]

It looks expensive, yes. My point is that I think it's not so common to have a steel-string guitar with the features of a classical guitar. At least not in my price range :p

What I know about Mermaid Ave. is that it wasn't so friendly a partnership with Billy Bragg. I think I saw a documentary, which was good but left me with that idea.

I wouldn't call Wilco a fun band per se, but I get your point. Overall they're pretty rock and roll I guess :p

Edit: Listening to California Stars right now. It's a joy of a song, it sounds great too ^^ Nice use of reverb and nice drum sound too.

[Dispozition]

What is the difference between a classical guitar and a regular 6 steel string acoustic?

Dreadnoughts are the best bodies. I really can't play an acoustic guitar that isn't one, I'm just so used to mine. I love the cut-out shape to it as well. I just looks sexy :P

[Shadow of the Sun]

I believe Classical guitars cannot have cutouts, have less frets and are in general intended to have nylon strings.

[Dispozition]

Ok, so a fair few differences :P

[Shadow of the Sun]

One of my friends, a self-taught classical player complains about how he cannot have cutouts.

He says it makes learning the 24th Caprice very hard.

[FdL]

FYI, steel string guitars and classical guitars are really different. Sure, to the non-discerning eye the differences could be subtle, but as Amotis will probably tell you better than I could, they are many and some are big.

For instance, I know the way they are built is different, because they have to withstand different tensions (I can't remember which one has more), so steel strings have this cross-bracing in the top cover with the soundhole.
Then IIRC the necks are different, wider and more spaced between strings in classical guitars, with less frets.

Then, I have what I think is a steel string dreadnought and it doesn't have a cutaway, so I don't think it's a necessary feature.

[Amotis]

Yeah, pretty huge. But there's so many regular acoustics and so many classical guitar types that it's hard to say certain "this is this, this is this" comments.

But classicals (not flamenco) tend to have wider necks/fingerboards, wider bridge string separations, the fingerboard tends to be without inlays, usually a higher action, the truss rod is a bit different (going against the different, less, tensions of classicals), thinner bodies, thinner soundboards, larger nut widths, and the keys are turned toward the player. Steel strings are under a lot more pressure so they use different bracing, a lot more variety of woods and materials on the fret boards and bodies, and laminated stuff.

Basically this all makes the classical sound which tends to be a bit more resonated and sustained. But it varies a lot though. So many different models and all off them sound pretty different.

[ZombieRockStar]

New dream guitar: I want this. (http://www.fender.com/news/index.php?display_article=135)

I don't care that it'll probably sound not-so-good because of the aluminium body, but I don't care.

[Amotis]

:smallconfused: Why don't they have a sound sample?

[ZombieRockStar]

Dunno. Maybe it would sound as good as a regular strat, I'm not sure.

[Amotis]

Thinking that this is the best place to be excited about this;

I might be able to regularly attend a master class by a certain Robert Wetzel (http://www.robertwetzel.com/).

This is awesome...

The Romero's called him 'little brother.' *jaw drop*

wowowowoowoww.

[FdL]

You actually like the way that guitar looks?

[ZombieRockStar]

It just seems different enough to be interesting. I might've picked different colours though. Something that doesn't look like an easter egg.

[FdL]

@Zombie: It...it...it's got colored liquid thingies inside. It's like a cross of a painter's palette and a lava lamp...on LSD, as if featured in Yellow Submarine.

BTW, noticed how some strats now come with a fitted bridge humbucker. There's one called "big block" or sth. And IMHO they're really abusing the shiny chromed guitar theme. Guess it sells, but dude!

@Amotis: Neat! I hope you can get to do it and make the most of it.

[ZombieRockStar]

Well, yeah. Maybe just a matter of taste. I like lava lamps...

Yeah. Dunno...should strats even be allowed to have humbuckers? I thought that the distinctive tone everybody talks about came from them having only single coils.

[Amotis]

I think breaking that guitar on stage would be pretty awesome.

SPLASH! LAVA LAMPS!?! HOW LAME ZOMBIE! ALSO, CAPS LOCK!

That's of course if you could break it; but still.

Iono, people seem to like humbuckers. Strats are one of Fender's main models. So right, I pretty much think it's a "sell more" thing.

[SDF]

It's just a cheap way for Fender to hit a different market without having to make an entirely new guitar. Why you would buy one is a different story.

[zeratul]

Not that I know much about basses, but that looks like a pretty decent straight-forward bass. Got any recording equipment so we can hear how it sounds?

I thought signature guitars were for rabid fanboys...like, seriously, who would want an Angus Young signature SG or a Geddy Lee jazz bass, no matter how much you like AC/DC or Rush.

I don't really have a dream guitar, just a bunch of guitars I'd like to have.

I'm buying a recording mic soon, and I know how to play come as you are, so I could show you that way. The bass line to that is pretty simple though.

[FdL]

I'm buying a recording mic soon, and I know how to play come as you are, so I could show you that way. The bass line to that is pretty simple though.

Yeah, please do it so we can hear your bass. I'm a little lazy lately but I want to show you guys some of my stuff too. I don't know what but I'll figure out something.

[Amotis]

Hey everyone, share some songs/tabs that you really like. I feel like learning something random tonight.

@Fdl: Would you happen to have tabs for Red House Painter's Revelations Big Sur? That song and solo is so...cool. I know he like alternative tuning and so I'm having a hard time guessing just by ear.

[FdL]

The last thing I played in guitar is my version of "Things
behind the sun". I can't sing it, and I never got the structure right, but I love how it flows and the rythm and the chords. I learned it from a widely available tab. I love it when he does the A thing and then X02432, A again and X04232 to end in A, in a rapid sucession. It's tricky but it's lovely.

Then there's this song by Juliana Hatfield off her first solo album called "Ugly" which I love. It's one of those fragile, troubled teenager songs she does so well. I love the picking patterns and also the chord shapes, some are open and chimey, pretty unusual. I can't play this in a sitting nowadays, but I was pretty good at it back when I learned it.

Amotis, sadly I don't have the tab. You're right in that it's probably an alternate tuning...The fact that it's not tuned to a regular pitch in the record makes it even worse to try to figure it out. I'd play this in D, because of the shape, maybe with a capo on 1st, because it sounds closer to an Eb.

My take on the first part would be some variant of this D, maybe something like ??0032, then hammer w index to get X20032 or maybe something of G like X20033 or X20003 and ends in some version of Em...
Dunno, that's off the top of my head, just by listening to it right now. It sounds really different to that, but I really can't do alternate tunings :p Makes my head hurt to think of the variables.

You know, you always make want to take the guitar and play. It might sound weird or stupid but that's what you just did. Thanks.

[smellie_hippie]

Hey everyone, share some songs/tabs that you really like. I feel like learning something random tonight.



Grab yourself some John Fahey tab... specifically "The Yellow Princess". I've been working on that fingerpicker for weeks months. :smallredface:

It's one of his tunes that doesn't necessitate the re-tuning of your guitar. Once you get the pattern down, it's pretty straight forward.

[Amotis]

@Fdl - I wish Red House Painters had songbooks. :smallfrown: I'm totally back into them and his stuff is almost always alternately tunes...with a capo somewhere...and filled with melodic hammered on chord changes that confuse me with their texture changes. :smalleek:

Speaking of alternate tunings...Nike Drake, eh? His stuff is deceptively hard...as you probably know. But yeah, the flow and the chord changes are always so fresh and perfect. Tricky is a good word too. He was a very good player...and Things Behind The Sun is probably gonna be the next song I learn. Which one are you playing? Capo on 4th? I really like his vocal melody on the song. One of my favorites.

Have you ever mentioned Juliana Hatfield before? I like her too. :smallcool:

@smellie_hippie - Awesome name drop. Fahey is great. I only know Desperate Man Blues, which is real fun. But The Yellow Princess I did not know was in standard. Which is something enough to make me find some tabs/music. I'm lazy.

edtio - it is confirmed. I am now a third degree of the Romeros. :smallcool: Ha HAW!~

[FdL]

@Fdl - I wish Red House Painters had songbooks. :smallfrown: I'm totally back into them and his stuff is almost always alternately tunes...with a capo somewhere...and filled with melodic hammered on chord changes that confuse me with their texture changes. :smalleek:


Yeah, it's true, it's difficult stuff to learn. Because on top of that he's got such a great fingerpicking technique, so it's definitely out of my league. I want to learn and record Katy Song, though.

Songbooks are a utopia. I mean, I believe there is good stuff but it's never going to be made for all those obscure music we listen to. And besides, I see them as something blatantly commercial and therefore have doubts about their quality.



Speaking of alternate tunings...Nike Drake, eh? His stuff is deceptively hard...as you probably know. But yeah, the flow and the chord changes are always so fresh and perfect. Tricky is a good word too. He was a very good player...and Things Behind The Sun is probably gonna be the next song I learn. Which one are you playing? Capo on 4th? I really like his vocal melody on the song. One of my favorites.


Well, I play it without capo, because the chord shapes are pretty familiar to me (a couple thanks to Juliana, btw). And as I don't play to the recording, because I think it's out of tune, I don't really know the structure. I do have a recording of this, was starting to overdub electric guitar when I realized I got the structure wrong. It's still good to show (in the first takes, lo-fi, haphazard style my audiences are used to :p). I gotta find it and post it.



Have you ever mentioned Juliana Hatfield before? I like her too. :smallcool:


Yeah, I like her a lot. I got into her in the mid 90's, as I was listening to Belly, Lemonheads and other related alt.poppy Bostonian stuff. I like Blake Babies a lot too, they have a really distinct sound and should have been bigger I guess. Juliana's latest albums (after the blue one) have become a little boring, but she's still a great songwriter. I just miss her eternal teenager persona :p



edtio - it is confirmed. I am now a third degree of the Romeros. :smallcool: Ha HAW!~

Well, that's awesome, congrats! Go girl! ^^

[smellie_hippie]

Mmmmmm... I've been picking up some Zep tunes here lately. There's just something very fun about classic rock. Well, that probably stems from the fact that it's my favorite music. :smallamused:

[zeratul]

Hey I'm trying to get one of mysisters to learn electric guitar. What's a good (and by good I mean cheap) electric guitar you guys would reccomend.

[ZombieRockStar]

How cheap and for what kind of music. You can get decent strat copies for relatively cheap. Something by Squire for...what, $300? Considering that my first electric is going to cost $2000...

Speaking of which, I got my amp—Johnson 15 watt tube—this week and for the weekend I have use of a Squire strat to test it out on. Sounds pretty good, I guess, aside from my inexperience with amp settings.

[smellie_hippie]

Oh yeah... you can't beat the warm organic sound of a nice tube amp. nice.

Zeratul, you can get plenty of electric guitars cheap. Most guitar stores will likely have some used equiment as well. To go ahead and echo what others will undoubtably tell you shortly... have your sister actually pick the guitar up and play it. She'll need to like how it feels and so forth...