Light Warriors vs. OotS

[Dhavaer]

One one side we have:

Thief: A ninja skilled enough to steal things from his own future self. Also has good kicking ability and can summon law-ninja.

Red Mage: Can ignore damage, copy any ability he sees used once, and cast an ice magic spell powerful enough to freeze the universe. His skeleton is vestigial.

Fighter: Stupendously resistant to damage, skilled enough to wield sword-chucks without hurting himself and apparently able to flawlessly block attacks.

Black Mage: A wizard 'stuffed with more apocalypse than three wizards combined'. Has the nuclear bomb-like Hadoken spell and the 'Goblin Punch'. Can vomit out his internal organs at will.

On the other side:

The Order of the Stick. I don't really have to describe them, do I?

As for my guess, I'm giving this to the Light Warriors on raw power, and the OotS on teamwork.

[Nevrmore]

The Light Warriors have been killed more times than I can count. I bet they'd kick the Stick's asses.

[Solo]

I give the victory to OotS based on sheer competance.

That and...


Haley could counter Thief
Roy could counter Fighter
V could counter BM (Maybe)
Belkar would probably find a way to kill RM

That leaves Elan and Durkon to assist where needed.

[Nevrmore]

You are severely underestimating the Light Warriors.

[PsyBlade]

To be honest, if the Hadoken hits (very likely) all caught in it are gone. I don't know how the Light Warriors keep surviving it (it KILLED ALMOST ALL LIFE ON A PLANET).

[Solo]

You are severely underestimating the Light Warriors.

Au contrair; I think you severely underestimate the OotS.

Evan's Spiked Tentacles of Forced Intrusion.

[Nevrmore]

Black Mage has been raped by a horrible tentacle monster before.

The Order is very competent on a small scale. If this question had been asked four years ago, then yes, they would have stood a good chance against the Light Warriors, but this is not so anymore.

Thief/Ninja steals panels off of walls. He steals from himself from the future. He had a bag that contained more money than currently existed in the world. And how much money is Hailey attempting for? A compartively small amount that she hasn't achieved yet.

Roy definitely has Fighter beaten in the intelligence department, but just about everyone he fights has the advantage there and he still manages to kill them quite well. Roy's best attack is Great Cleave. Fighter, even given his stupidity, has mastered an entire fighting style that has been shown to be able to kill multiple people at once, and that was before he got his upgrade.

Red Mage is sort of insane, but given enough time he is going to do something. He obviously has enough power to, as mentioned, freeze an entire universe with Ice-9.

And Belkar versus Black Mage? Do I even have to explain this?

[Viscount Einstrauss]

It's like the difference between mid-teens and epics. OotS just isn't at the same ridiculously huge power level. Hell, Roy died to what would have been a slapstick moment in 8-Bit.

But if we were to let the OotS gang grow into around the level 40 or so the 8-Bit team appears to be at, they'd probably rip them apart due to better logistics and teamwork. As it is? They just don't have the firepower to do any real harm.

[Alex Kidd]

ESToFI? I respond with this

Red Mage: A little to the left, now twist it. Yeah that's right.....

Anyway assuming the power of plot doesn't interfere(though seeing as Fighter is involved that's likely to go LWs way anyway). The LWs win due to being at a far higher level of power.

Fighter vs Roy- Not even really a contest, Fighter can spin 4 blades at speeds that are invisible to human sight and create sonic booms, survives blades through his brain, regenerates damage, this was before his class change. Now he legitimatley can't drown becuase he doesn't really want to. Roy doesn't counter Fighter at all, Roy's realistic, Fighter's every bad 80s action hero combined with Goku and Neo. I mean really Roy died to something that Black Mage the physically weakest member of the LWs has survived and ignored several times.

Red Mage vs V- V might win because RM will be fascinated by the androgyny and attempt to mime it. Otherwise this one Red Mage wins just cause he can screw with reality far more.

Thief vs Haley- Also not a fight, Thief is an epic level Ninja/Thief who can steal souls, enforce legal contracts on intangible magics, and steal from the future. Not too mention his ability to stand on thin air(or maybe just the edges of the panel), and move at speeds too fast to see. Haley's a regular high level Thief.

Black Mage vs Belkar- Hadoken, misses all the time. In a stab battle this would be close though probably in Belkar's favour(remember that BM has massive damage resistance and was good enough to butcher an entire city guard with nothing but a knife), except BM can also use epic level magic reliably(Bolt Ice Fire 3, Meteor etc) in addition to stabbing. So BM wins.

White Mage vs Durkon- Durkon wins due to his god actually caring about him, WM's seems to be a sadist.

Black Belt vs Elan - BB's dead, if he wasn't then he'd win. Epic level monk who can bend reality through his own stupidity.

[Koga]

Brian has stated there really is no cannon level for 8-bit, that they are as powerful as they need to be for the moment. Bassicaly 8-bit is storyteller rpg, OotS follows a strict d20 guideline.


So 8-bit wins only if they're meant too. It's some deep philosophical crap like that that's going to get them killed... again...

[slayerx]

So 8-bit wins only if they're meant too. It's some deep philosophical crap like that that's going to get them killed... again...

I'll second that...
afterall, when you consider all the crap they can do and what they have done... the current mobboss they have run into doesn't seem like he should be as big of a threat

though today's new strip does make me secondguess that statement just a bit =P


Really, there are so many things that can screw up the fight for the light warriors that may come up if they were not meant to win...
-Fighter is an idiot... no matter how skilled he is with a sword, he can be tricked into doing almost anything... (i think he and Elan would be friends... and thog too)
-Red Mage... makes terrible plans that work sometimes, but screw up most of the time...
-Blackmage... he's got those big ass spells, and yet he finds himself in deep sh*t against alot of big oppenents... really, if he was always as badass as he should be, then he wouldn't have so much trouble against some enemies...
-Thief... despite his physical abilities, he often tries to weasal his way out of bad situations as oppossed to just kicking ass

and if we are considering "what if they weren't meant to win or loose, just straight up fight"... it would be a toss up, because all those thigns i mentioned that could go wrong, may still happen away; those flaws and errors that come up are still part of the light warriors characters...

[Viscount Einstrauss]

Those flaws aren't nearly as big as, well, being consistently shown as weaker in all manner of power. Let's pretend you're an ordinary kid with a very small chunk of kryptonite that's supposed to face down and kill Superman. Oh, sure, you've found yourself his weakness- now, how in the world are you going to not die while utilizing it?

[slayerx]

Those flaws aren't nearly as big as, well, being consistently shown as weaker in all manner of power. Let's pretend you're an ordinary kid with a very small chunk of kryptonite that's supposed to face down and kill Superman. Oh, sure, you've found yourself his weakness- now, how in the world are you going to not die while utilizing it?

Kinda of a bad example seeing as Superman would not harm an inocent looking kid for no reason, thus all the kid would have to do is hide the stone in his pocket and play innocent until superman grows weak... hell he'd start looking around for the source but he probably wouldn't suspect the kid going "are you alright mister? you look kind of sick?" would be the cause... before he realizes it he becomes so weak he couldn't harm a child =P

and actually, those flaws show up pretty consistantly... they show off those weaknesses pretty much every time they have an actual fight on their hands... The only question was how much could the oppenents actually take advantage of their idiocy... the order would probably take them seriously and exploit these weaknesses if they popped up (trick fighter, take out RM after one of his bad plans, take out BM before he remembers he can cast powerful magic, and then gang up on thief); unlike many of the bosses who did not take them seriously and could have killed them in an instant if they wanted to.

on the flipside, the weaknesses MIGHT not show up and they may actually do what they are capable... the plot usually dictates which happens... and if plot doesn't, then it's a toss up

[Magnor Criol]

Brian has stated there really is no cannon level for 8-bit, that they are as powerful as they need to be for the moment. Bassicaly 8-bit is storyteller rpg, OotS follows a strict d20 guideline.

It's less that 'basically they're a storyteller RPG' and more that 'basically they're a pure comedy comic.' 8bit doesn't worry about realism, levels, consistency, reality, etc. - there's no concern about what they can and can't do at any given time, they just do stuff because it's funny and any far-reaching effects are generally ignored by next strip unless they're being used for the remnants of a plot.

OotS is actually semi-serious, managing to be quite funny while worrying about building a coherent story and keeping consistency in mind vis-a-vis who has what powers and levels, etc. Not that that makes them necessarily better or worse, just that it's a different style.

8bit - pure comedy, the things and people change by what's needed. OotS - semiserious, the people and things stay the way they're written and react to a changing plot.

In order to compare the two, then, you'd need to either take OotS into the pure comedy world, where reality bends and thus no one will ever die, comedic flaws are extended to ridiculous proportions, and nothing ever really gets accomplished; or bring 8bit into the semiserious world, where things are kept track of, you can't do things like steal from your future self or shrug off knives in the brain or RM's little 'I change reality by ignoring the parts I don't need at the moment' stuff.

Those 'powers' that you guys have listed that 8bit has aren't powers at all, they're just comic stuff. It's not like BM could actually survive a fall like he has several times in the comic; it's that that was a slapstick gag like you see Wily E. Coyote taking, and if he actually died for real, that'd sort of be contrary to the comic's whole purpose of amusing readers.

[Jibar]

You have to remember though, Red Mage has a perfect knowledge of the rules that the Order live by.
He knows exactly how they work, how they could work, how they did work, and then can screw with it so bad he might just kill them by sneezing.
I'd say Red Mage by himself vs the Order would leave Red Mage victor, but giving him Black Mage, Thief and Fighter too just makes it Light Warriors all the way.

[SITB]

Well technically Black Mage does have "Feather Fall"...

But my point is: the Light warriors will win. Why? Simple, Red Mage.

He is the ultimate munchkin and thus will switch all of his stats around 'till he will be able to overcome all of the OOTS. He treats the rules that govern the OOTS world as guidelines and considers himself not bound by them.

EDIT:So this is what it feels to be ninja'ed...

[Turcano]

Assuming a level playing field (for the reasons Magnor Criol described), I'd give it to the OotS. If I were in charge of their tactical operations, I'd have Roy and Durkon double-team Fighter, V and Belkar double-team Black Mage, Haley engage Thief (from a distance if possible) and Elan hold off Red Mage until one of the LWs drop. Even if the LWs are have more raw power, they have almost no discipline whatsoever. And although Red Mage is a munchkin, his plans tend to remind one of Baldrick from Blackadder.

[Jibar]

I always thought Baldric had some very good plans.



EDIT:So this is what it feels to be ninja'ed...

Speaking of ninjas, if Haley were to engage Thief, surely he would steal the arrows from midair and then throw them back at her? It would be a battle of attrition.

[Turcano]

I always thought Baldric had some very good plans.

The first two did (especially the first one), but the plans from the other two were completely retarded.

[hanzo66]

Thief would probably at one point summon Law Ninjas to distract the Order.

Black Mage for a better term is a mix between Belkar and Xykon. He has the firepower and bloodlust, but none of their cunning. Worse comes to worse, he'll perform the Hadoken if possible followed with a Goblin Punch (which isn't a punch at all).

Red Mage's plans only work (somewhat) against major enemies. Depending on how the Order counts up against The Fiends, The Dark Warriors or the Illithid Cults, it might somehow work.

Fighter is exeedingly hard to actually defeat. Not only is he a master of Zodiac Kenshido (along with the Swordchucks) he is seemingly impervious to lethal damage (headshots have seemingly negative effects on him).

[doliemaster]

The light warriors would win because well the oots was designed with dnd in mind which isn't to powerful til' epic while the light warriors are DnD, final fantasy and a whole lot of other SH**, thief would steal Haley's bow before she can fire, Fighter would use sword chucks and rip roy and durkon apart, Blackmage would use some apoclypse spell and kill v and belker, RM would become more powerful than thog and kill elan.

If nothing else than 8bit uses final fantasy which has higher hp than DnD so that means more damage from a FF spell than most DnD characters can take.

[skyclad]

Light Warriors vs Order is like Batman, Superman, Spiderman and Dr Doom against a bunch of henchmen. The Light warriors are ridiculusly powerful.

[Tengu]

Now that's an interesting match. Let's see...

The Light Warriors have incredible power, each of them is a master in their own field. However, they are horribly incompetent most of the time (apart from Thief) and spend a whole lot of time bickering and fighting each other - not really a recipe for success.

The Order of the Stick has very good teamwork and cooperation, and any single one of them (apart from Belkar or Elan) has more common sense than all Light Warriors added up. They also have slight advantage in numbers. However, most of them are built slightly too weak mechanically to beat the sheer power of the LWs - only Durkon and recently Elan are rather decent (Roy also, but mostly due to having high ability scores).

Overall, I'd give the victory to the Order though, because their webcomic is funnier (though I like 8-bit Theater too).

[Indon]

I don't think the fight would actually ever break out in violence.

Fighter would 'make friends' with Roy because they're both Fighters.

Belkar would end up giving BM stabbing tips; BM would help Belkar with his fireball aim.

Thief and Haley would enter into a battle of the minds, with Elan on the side going "out, out, outthink the elvish criminal!"

V and Red Mage would exchange notes on their respective research into gender.

Durkon would mostly console White Mage while she sobs uncontrollably.

The Light Warriors would completely forget that there was supposed to be a fight until it's too late.

[Morty]

Well, Light Warriors are super-powerful, but they didn't really win any serious fight. They get out of dangerous situations via dumb luck and coincidences far more often than OOTS. So I say it'd be a draw- LW are more powerful, but are epic-level incompetent when it comes to something more serious than robbing innocent townsfolk.

[Magnor Criol]

I don't think the fight would actually ever break out in violence.

Fighter would 'make friends' with Roy because they're both Fighters.

Belkar would end up giving BM stabbing tips; BM would help Belkar with his fireball aim.

Thief and Haley would enter into a battle of the minds, with Elan on the side going "out, out, outthink the elvish criminal!"

V and Red Mage would exchange notes on their respective research into gender.

Durkon would mostly console White Mage while she sobs uncontrollably.

The Light Warriors would completely forget that there was supposed to be a fight until it's too late.

I just got a mental image of Haley and Thief in the Princess Bride iocane powder discussion.

Also, Roy's already mentally taxed enough with Elan...I think if Fighter decided to try to become his friend as well, Roy would kill himself. Too much idiocy. =p

I don't think RM's plans and reality warps would really work here. The only reason they work in 8bit is because the enemies the Light Warriors fight are all just as idiotic and forgetful as they are. Someone like Roy, V, or Durkon, who's got their wits about them, would see through all of his stuff very quickly.

[Om]

You have to remember though, Red Mage has a perfect knowledge of the rules that the Order live by.
He knows exactly how they work, how they could work, how they did work, and then can screw with it so bad he might just kill them by sneezing.You have to remember that Red Mage is an absolute idiot of staggering proportions. The same goes for the rest of the Light Warriors. Hells Fighter failed in a drowning contest while wearing plate armour. Their hallmark is their sheer incompetence.

[Jibar]

You have to remember that Red Mage is an absolute idiot of staggering proportions. The same goes for the rest of the Light Warriors. Hells Fighter failed in a drowning contest while wearing plate armour. Their hallmark is their sheer incompetence.

But that doesn't stop him understanding how they work.
Besides that, he's so stupid he's a genius. Many times he has come up with the plans that have won the day. See Plan 9 From Outer Space.
Belkar and Elan have proved to be stupid enough to easily fall for Red Mage and his plans. He can take down a third of the Order in one fell swoop.

[Dryad]

Order of the stick is a lot better. Let's face it; it has the jokes, quick wit, cynicism and cuteness factor over just about anything. (Allthough Noobcow, Nooborc, Noobdead and Noobtroll would stand a chance)

Who needs a group that can blast everything apart as soon as look at it? Where's the fun, the thrill, the excitement in that? Sure; it's cool to kill things in round I, not if you have to rollplay the part. Roll the diced. Heck; it's dead. Next.
If you can kill things in round one, but spend an entire session on planning to get it júst right, then thát's cool.

And the Order of the Stick is cool because it's not overly powerful. (And Belkar and Elan are too cute...)

[Megalomaniac2]

It's really a question of how on the ball the Light Warriors would be. If they are able to conduct themselves halfway competently, their superior power will overwhelm the OOTS. HOWEVER, these are the people who got captured by GARLAND, remember?

Meanwhile, the OOTS has superior numbers, teamwork, and intelligence. While any one of them cannot wield as much power as their Light Warrior counterpart, they can actually coordinate themselves from time to time. Given enough time to come up with a plan, and assuming the Light Warriors behave like their usual selves, call it an even fight.

Black Mage's spells are apocalyptically powerful... but he literally cannot hit a mountain with them, and is frequently helpless after casting one of them aside from his stabbing skills. If V or Durkon can neutralize his first shot somehow, Belkar or Roy can tackle him. Alternatively, if Haley can draw his fire, she can Evade pretty much anything he throws at her, and then Belkar or Roy go for the kill.

Red Mage has powerful ice magic, and has frequently shown himself to be immune to damage through sheer dunderheadedness. It falls to Vaarsuvius to use his/her superior intellect to convince RM that his prized stats are flawed, causing a Shatner-esque meltdown. V could also show him his/her own character sheet, which just happens to have Explosive Runes on it...

Thief can steal things FROM THE FUTURE. The Order needs to act fast or they'll be rendered helpless AND penniless when all their equipment suddenly disappears. Again, Explosive Runes could be handy there- Thief swipes V's 'most powerful spell' and BOOM. Otherwise, the two fastest members of the Order, Haley and Elan, could engage him; they're the only ones who could keep up with his ninja skills.

Fighter has repeatedly demonstrated extraordinarily toughness, but has been knocked out by a giant club. In which case: Thor's Might.

So yeah, the Order has a chance, if they work together. In other words, a slim chance.

[hanzo66]

One thing the Order has an advantage of is the ability to work together as a team.

The Light Warriors consist of a Xykon/Belkar mix combo (sans their cunning), a racist prince-turned-mob boss, an idiot savant (emphasis on the idiot) and a gender-confused copycat who's plans depend on how important the enemy is. Naturally they share a mutual hatred for each other (save for Fighter) and Black Mage is as likely to incapacitate Fighter as he is anyone else.

Thief would focus mainly on slaughtering Durkon due to his genocidal hatred of Dwarves. Black Mage would either just try to hit on Haley or V badly, which would result in something not-good happening. Fighter might just show off his Swordchucks to...

Oh yeah... RIP dude...

And Red Mage... I'm not sure what the hell that guy would do, actually.

[Koga]

Another reason 8-bit fails is because thier entire group is like one big stereotypical evil party.


Blackmage is stereotypical chaotic evil.

Thief is stereotypical neutral evil.

Redmage and Fighter aren't lawful evil, but they ceartainly aren't good. Probably just chaotic stupid..

[Solo]

Currently, the Light Warriors are having trouble defeating a man with a sign.

[skyclad]

Another reason 8-bit fails is because thier entire group is like one big stereotypical evil party.


Blackmage is stereotypical chaotic evil.

Thief is stereotypical neutral evil.

Redmage and Fighter aren't lawful evil, but they ceartainly aren't good. Probably just chaotic stupid..

More like Stupid Stupid. ;)

[mmorpc]

Lol what about my trio. They'd probably fall last since they are still new, as well as the comic.

[Setra]

Haley alone could take out Fighter and Black Mage

She could notice how similar Thog and fighter are and...

:haley: Fighter, I think Black Mage wants a hug!

[Ubiq]

The Light Warriors waver back and forth a great deal when it comes to competence.

Black Mage conquered Hell itself in a matter of moments, Fighter is an amazing swordsman, Red Mage made a T-Rex (one of the most powerful regular enemies in the original FF) explode just by talking to it, and Thief... well, Thief is Thief.

They have a tendency to stumble into success despite the fact that they failed miserably in their actual assigned task. So even if the incompetent Light Warriors show up, they'll still blunder their way into obliterating the Order of the Stick.

[lacesmcawesome]

Light Warriors,

they're just too powerful not to win. I mean, you already stated all the reasons. I totally agree.

(I still prefer OotS, though)

Though, if Thor comes to Durkon's aid against BM who has devastated the natural order, then maybe they've got a fight. Bm is still pretty much a demigod anyways.

[Hiruma]

Black Mage recently summoned a meteor that is approximately half the size of the earth. It really all boils down simply to how the Light Warriors act because of their continuity problems. If they succeed in even any of their maneuvers, they win instanteously because each member of the LWs could take on the whole of the OOTS world and win when competent. Their power is mind-staggering:

Black Mage singehandedly wiped out all life on another planet and can do all kinda of impossible feats, such as causing an iceberg to explode just by stabbing it. Flare or Meteor wipe out entire towns and Hadoken is an unparelled spell.

Red Mage can destroy the universe at will, even if he dies while he's doing it.

Fighter has not lost a single fight to date bar the giant. His swords are obviously supersonic and incredibly enough he can take on a Fiend and tie. He also happens to have massive damage reduction and the incapacity to die, or when he does die, his patron deity intereferes.

Thief hasn't lost a fight either if my memory serves me right. As it is, if the LWs would use even a fraction of their power they would steamroll right over everyone in their world (minus Fiends)

[hanzo66]

Then again, Thief rarely goes on the offensive directly, using the others as a crony. Unless he sees Durkon, who he would burn/torch/slaughter for being a Dwarf.

Black Mage does not often use spells other than Hadoken and primarily knives others.

Red Mage can mime anything that the others do, change his stats to fit the situation and is highly skilled with Ice Spells.

Fighter is Fighter. Enough said.


If they ever actually manage to stay focused on their task, they would indeed be nigh-unstoppable. However their group is full of huge problems and such that are rather easy to exploit by someone smart enough (Princess Sara) and tend to get by situations with a mix of excessive violence and dumb luck.

[skyclad]

Don't forget that IF the light warriors screwed up so badly that they're losing, WM will save their butts somehow.

[hanzo66]

She'd heal them as she may or may not still believe them to be the true Light Warriors, but she would likely not help them in battle as she may note that the Order are good guys (depending if the first member she sees is Belkar or not).

[Seraph]

The Order would have a chance of the LWs tried to work together. if the F*cktarded Four realize they have a better chance if they keep out of each other's way, however, the Order is Screwed. the LW's failing is that, though each of them is frightfully good at their chosen profession, when they work together they just get tangled and can't work as well.

[Viscount Einstrauss]

That's why I propose giving OotS a "level up" for the battle. Being based on D&D rules, the Light Warriors are outside their CR range. If we were to match them up to it, they'd win because of better tactical ability and team balance. Besides, 8-Bit is nearing the end of it's run, so they're about at their final levels. OotS is not.

[Calemyr]

This would be a great matchup if the Giant ever decides to retire from this without finishing the storyline. Set it up with the 8bit guys and advertise it for a month beforehand about an upcoming crossover. And what's the first thing that happens in any crossover? The two sides fight, of course. The fight proves one sided, the OotS are wiped out, and the Light Warriors just look around for the rest of the crossover wondering what was supposed to happen. "It's been a good run, farewell."

That would be a memorable sendoff, wouldn't it?

[Arbitrarity]

I think thief and RM are LE, actually, as they both follow clearly defined rules.

Albeit, one is a twink, and the other is like a lawyer. But he has LAW-ninja.

BM is CE.

Fighter is stupid stupid.

[hanzo66]

I think thief and RM are LE, actually, as they both follow clearly defined rules.

Albeit, one is a twink, and the other is like a lawyer. But he has LAW-ninja.

BM is CE.

Fighter is stupid stupid.

Well actually Thief follows the rules that he himself sets and forces others to follow through some means or others (either contracts or coersion).

[Legendary]

Thief no longer has law-ninja, and even if he did, a combo of Belkar (who is chaotic evil) and Roy (who is the only one with a tendency to pass her checks, like spot) could take them out.

Thief would target Durkon and get Thor's Mighted early on. Fighter is stupider than Elan, and given a few moments, Elan could easily whip up an illusion to distract him. V would use all of the arcane power available to take on the two mages, with Haley being back up to distract them from ganging up on V.

[tomaO2]

With all the talk here I assume you guys don't know that Red Mage, Fighter and Black Mage have an actual prestige class that was developed on the website.

Red Mage class (http://www.nuklearpower.com/redmage22.php)

Fighter class (http://www.nuklearpower.com/redmage19.php) says nothing of sword chucks though. Fighter didn't actually learn how to do that before the article was made. Perhaps a new feat?

Black Mage class (http://www.nuklearpower.com/redmage20.php)

I agree that you either have to make the OOTS pure comedy or the Light Warriors semi serious and we have an actual mechanic to do so with these templates. <smile>

Pity he never got around to Thief. I also recommend reading all the articles that Sosa put up it's funny stuff and a good look into the type of mind Red Mage has. While these articles are not made by Brian. Sosa very much a part of the website (you can see him posting a lot on the main page) stuff from his articles made it to the comic (like Febreeze). I think it's considered simi-cannonal.

Why doesn't someone try and figure out the actual stats from these three, make them level 13 put them up against their equivalents in the OOTS to try and figure out the winner as a proxy for the full on fight? Of course this doesn't take into account their class change, unfortunately, but it is a good start (maby add each class change as some sort of special feat? RM-can copy anything. BM can instantly learn any spell is hit with and has the option to change one of his unused spell slots to the new spell the instant it happens. Fighter has some sort of super block to go with his sword chucks. Dunno. They have not discribed it much).

[Dhavaer]

Why stat them as level 13? There's no way Hadoken or Ice-9 are 7th level spells.

[tomaO2]

Actually Hadoken is not a spell at all and you get access to it at the first level for the Black Mage Prestige class. If you had bothered to read the link I provided you would know that. I think it's an interesting read. Yes, I realise that THIS version of Hadokin is much less powerful then the comic version but it needed to be toned down anyway if we try and make the characters semi realistic. Which is the way to go if you were truly interested in making a fun little contest between the two parties. Also, the BM prestige class looks like a lot of fun to play.

Ice 9 is a pure comedy spell which has no use as it would kill everyone on the planet... Yea, lets not bother with Armageddon spells. He would never use that in normal curcumstances. Ditto for stealing from the future. Let's try and bring it down to something playable with understandable mechanics to give it some real thought.

Again, to do a fair comparison you have to tone out the comedy and turn them into D&D type characters. The 3 prestige classes only have 10 levels so 13ish is about enough then enough to max them out on each. Maybe 14+ for some (like RM who I think would need 4 or 5 base classes to get a closer realisation of his build) If your serious about doing a fight try to work them into the OOTS world. Some sacrifices will have to be done to get good approximates of the actual Light Warriors.

Other things though, would remain hideously broken and super powerful. Like the Blue Mage bonus feat (bonus as it was given on TOP of his normal feats from his classes). How seriously broken would that have to be? You instantly learn any spell you get hit with AND you can use it next turn? Does that replace a spell you already learned or do you also get a bonus spell slot after learning it? Do you need components? Or the Mime feat, would have to be that you can copy any one feat/spell that you see used but it has to be within... 3 turns? Fighters feat might be like the Knight feat where you can absorb the damage from an attack of any ally next to you. Thief's Feat would be the ability to throw anything no matter how heavy at is you had the minimum strength required to throw it x number of yards or whatever. Law Ninja would be wasy enough to add with Leadership feat perhaps and the convenient forgetting of them when they are not wanted (a la Blackwing). Not sure who the cohort would be though. Perhaps a modified leadership that uses the 4 ninjas like familiars but also don't give status penalties if they croak.

Some stuff would have to go like RM's sword because his class says he is basicly a modifided Mystic Thurge. Unless we also add a level of Dusksword or something which might do the trick. I guess BM is a base class Wizard? He's got spell components. Fighter's base class would be fighter (lol) White mage will be a cleric and her deity's favored weapon is a two handed hammer/mace. Um, healing and fire domains? Black Belt a monk and Thief a rogue. Standered stuff mostly. We could make some decent approximations to the actual cast at level 13ish if we tried.

[hanzo66]

Wouldn't Black Mage be a Multiclass Wizard/Barbarian?

[tomaO2]

No. Your talking about the stabbing frenzy right?

Again it's COVERED IN THE LINK.

Holy Jeeze. Okay since you can't be bothered to click on the link and read it yourself I'll copy paste the part that I can. I am pretty dissapointed that you guys are so lazy you can't even bother to click. *sigh*


We continue with the prestige classes. This week I bring you Black Mage. Next week will be Red Mage. Enjoy!

Black Mage
A black mage has given himself over completely to the forces of darkness and chaos. Only the most morally bankrupt individuals may embark upon the path of the black mage. Unlike many other Prestige Classes, becoming a black mage requires no outside training. It is a class that one may only access by leading a life of relentless evil. To become a black mage is to become a focal point for all that is abysmal and horrible. A black mage is a being so overcome with, possessed by, and utterly imbued in evil that it has become a complete way of life.

Requirements:
Alignment: any non-good. The forces of evil frown upon good guys.
Spellcasting: Able to cast 4th level spells, three of which are from the Evocation school
Skills: Spellcraft 8 ranks
Feats: Combat Casting and one metamagic feat



Class Skills: Alchemy, Concentration, Craft, Innuendo, Intimidate, Knowledge(any), Spellcraft
Skill points each level: 4+ Int modifier

Class Features

Hadoken: Once per day a black mage can tap into the Chaotic, primordial energies that bind reality and focus them through his hands into a powerful, destructive blast. As he grows in power and learns greater control he can do more and more damage with this blast. A Hadoken is 10ft wide +5ft/level and has a range of 200ft +50ft/level. All targets within the blast are struck and take full damage (including inconvenient structures). This is an all or nothing blast of pure, concentrated destruction. As such, there is no way to cast a "weaker" version a la Magic Missile.

Stabbing Frenzy: Eventually, a mage can’t take it anymore. A black mage is pathologically, utterly evil. When a black mage is angered--above and beyond his natural hatred for everything--he must make a Wisdom check at -4 (or more or less if the DM thinks the situation is especially annoying or mild). If the black mage fails, he enters a stabbing frenzy. Note that a black mage may elect not to resist a stabbing frenzy and that entering combat is certainly ample enough reason to make a stabbing frenzy check. In combat, a black mage experiencing stabbing frenzy will first attack his enemies and immediately attack his friends if there are no enemies left. There is no way to resist this. The only way to avoid "friendly" fire from a stabbing frenzy black mage is to stay out of his reach or restrain him until the frenzy has subsided. A stabbing frenzy is similar to a rage in mood and tone but has some distinct differences. It only lasts 3 rounds, you immediately gain a +5 to your to hit during those three rounds, and your dagger does maximum damage. No complex actions such as casting spells or speech of any kind is possible during a stabbing frenzy. A black mage only makes the frenzy check (or elects to not make it) once per "scene." That is, the same combat (or stupid shopkeep, etc.) will not force a black mage to check for stabbing frenzy more than once in a day.

[Dhavaer]

[FONT="Comic Sans MS"][COLOR="Purple"]Actually Hadoken is not a spell at all and you get access to it at the first level for the Black Mage Prestige class. If you had bothered to read the link I provided you would know that. I think it's an interesting read. Yes, I realise that THIS version of Hadokin is much less powerful then the comic version but it needed to be toned down anyway if we try and make the characters semi realistic. Which is the way to go if you were truly interested in making a fun little contest between the two parties.

I've already read all the classes, and as you say they are a lot less powerful than the comic version. As we are talking about the comic version, there's no need to reference the classes at all.

[SITB]

I've already read all the classes, and as you say they are a lot less powerful than the comic version. As we are talking about the comic version, there's no need to reference the classes at all.

I echo Dhavaer on this. The classes were designed to incorporate the "wackiness" of 8 Bit theater into D&D, not as a mesaure of power of the Light warriors.

[tomaO2]

Actually , we are not nessicarily talking about the comic version. There has been some discussion that since the comic Light Warriors are pure storytelling with no thought given to realism whatsoever that it's not realistic to compare them to OOTS which is semi serious. It was suggested a few times that either we make OOTS pure comedy like the LW or make the LW more realistic and drop off the mostly impossible stuff.

We could do this by using these pestige classes. I think that would be fun to make D&D equivalents to combate the OOTS but if you guys don't wanna bother then fine. I'll stop posting about it. I just was pointing out there IS a mechanic in these prestige classes that can can turn the LW into D&D.

[Gez]

Light Warriors vs Order is like Batman, Superman, Spiderman and Dr Doom against a bunch of henchmen. The Light warriors are ridiculusly powerful.

They're more like Azathoth vs. Legolas. Except it's a clown version of Azathoth and a sarcastic version of Legolas.

Not the same genre. At all.


Now that's an interesting match. Let's see...

I have a better match. Smaug vs. the Millenium Falcon.

[Dhavaer]

I just was pointing out there IS a mechanic in these prestige classes that can can turn the LW into D&D.

But, as you said, it doesn't translate the Light Warriors into D&D. It allows you to create characters with similarly flavoured abilities that are balanced for D&D, which is very different.


I have a better match. Smaug vs. the Millenium Falcon.

Millenium Falcon (assuming it has crew, it can't do anything by itself). Smaug was killed by an arrow, the Falcon has turbolasers. Over in seconds.