Rate a few obscure spells?

[tadkins]

I found a number of spells that I don't see talked about too much here. Not like famous spells such as Ice Assassin and Black Tentacles. Since there's hundreds of spells out there, it's hard to tell which ones are good and worthwhile. I have a gnomish ranger/wizard gish character in mind that I'd like to play one day and there are a few spells I found that I think would be cool, but would like a second opinion on. I picture this character to be a traveler and explorer of sorts, with a preference for earth, ice and shadow spells.

As the Frost
I like this one, reminds me in a way of Remorseless Winter in WoW. I could picture myself wading into a group of foes with this on and just slowing them all.

Ice Shape
Would possibly use this spell as the means to my main melee weapon. I picture this character wielding a crystalline greatsword of ice.

Starmantle
Since I'm going to be wading into battle, such protection seems helpful. Plus I imagine the graphic on this to be rather pretty.

Shadow Spray
Keeps to the theme, and reducing my opponents' Strength to seems wise when I finally close in on them for melee.

Shadow Form
One of the things I want to do with this character is be able to move around in stealth when needed. Since I plan to have a level or two of Ranger this could prove to be a nice supplement. Of course there's also Invisibility, but thematically this spell seems pretty cool, and has the added benefit of moving through objects.

Heart of Earth
Another of the "transforming myself to be better" spells that seems cool. I personally prefer spells like this to stuff that changes you into an entirely different creature. Not that I wouldn't reluctantly use Shapechange when required, but I prefer fighting as my own character when possible.

[nedz]

I've used Shadow Spray. It's a useful spell choice for an Illusion themed level 4 Sorcerer. Works quite well with Sculpt Spell too, though there are better spells available at level 3. Mass Daze for 1 round > 4 points of strength damage though.

[Sqmach]

Heart of Earth and the other 3 heart spells are pretty good. The primary effects are nice, as is the stacking mechanic to give you fortification, and the secondary effects you can activate are also pretty good in a pinch. Heart of Earth is particularly good because it lets you get around the normal cost of Stoneskin.

[Faily]

I have used Starmantle on my Sorcerer/Heartwarder years ago, and I have good memories of it being useful and adding extra protection on a rather squishy character.

Heart of Earth (and Fire, Air and Water) are all really nice buffs on their own, and get even better when paired together. Really recommend these to all classes that can use them.

[tadkins]

Thanks for the responses everyone. I'll keep this all in mind for when I get to play the character.

I've also been looking at some other spells, and another one popped out. Deep Freeze seems like a great go-to spell for those "must capture him alive" type situations.

[Zetapup]

If you can get evasion and have a solid reflex save, starmantle becomes amazing. 95% chance of not taking any damage from magic weapons, and nonmagical ones automatically turn into light? Heck yeah. It'd get even better with persistent spell, but the current duration is fine for an encounter or two if that isn't an option. You might want to ask your dm what happens when you're hit by a natural attack while you have starmantle up. Does it destroy the natural weapon or does it just negate the damage?

[Curmudgeon]

Before using Starmantle I recommend you talk to your DM about natural weapons. The game doesn't have any mechanism to deal with "destroyed claws" or the like, so that needs to be addressed. (When I'm DMing I just say the spell has no effect on natural weapons, and thereby make my life easier.)

[tadkins]

Fair point about the Starmantle. I'd imagine their claws/nails/etc would get destroyed though and the creature would end up looking something like this. xD

https://fauxphilnews.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/fry.jpg

[GilesTheCleric]

The Heart of X series are fairly frequently recommended here as good wiz spell picks; Heart of Water is my personal favourite since it grants Freedom of Movement a level early.

Iron Silence is a situationally better pick than Shadow Form; it lasts longer and is a lower spell level, but doesn't give phasing. There's a few other low level spells that give alternative movement modes that work well in conjunction with it for about the same effect.

Shadow Spray is a really good one; nice find. Ray of Clumsiness, Ray of Stupidity, and Dragonkilling Touch are similar if you want more of the same.

Ah, Starmantle. I like to run a Starmantle Cloak with Divine Agility on my persistomancers.

Some cleric builds use Ice Axe to great effect; Greater Mighty Wallop is another great weapon spell, and of course there's Shillelagh. You could refluff the axe as a broadsword if you'd like; there's also Blue Ice or something in Fb that you can craft weapons out of, iirc.

As The Frost is pretty flavourful, but compared to other 7ths it's not amazing. But if you have 7ths, it means you have 6ths, and if you have 6ths, it means you can already do whatever you please with little-to-no consequences anyway, so go for it.

Edit: For your edification, there's ~2500 spells in the game, iirc. There's about 1100 cleric spells; I don't recall how many wiz spells there are. There's also more than 2000 monsters.

[tadkins]

Some cleric builds use Ice Axe to great effect; Greater Mighty Wallop is another great weapon spell, and of course there's Shillelagh. You could refluff the axe as a broadsword if you'd like; there's also Blue Ice or something in Fb that you can craft weapons out of, iirc.

Ice Axe would be a spell I'd love to have, sadly it's a cleric spell. I figured Ice Shape could be the Wizard alternative, but correct me if I'm wrong on that.

A Blue Ice weapon would also work pretty well, if Ice Shape doesn't. I basically want my character to have this.

http://i.imgur.com/MoZIjuU.png


Edit: For your edification, there's ~2500 spells in the game, iirc. There's about 1100 cleric spells; I don't recall how many wiz spells there are. There's also more than 2000 monsters.

Yep I figured it was a pretty huge number, but wasn't sure about "thousands", so I played it safe and said "hundreds". xD

[GilesTheCleric]

Ice Axe would be a spell I'd love to have, sadly it's a cleric spell. I figured Ice Shape could be the Wizard alternative, but correct me if I'm wrong on that.

A Blue Ice weapon would also work pretty well, if Ice Shape doesn't. I basically want my character to have this.

Yep I figured it was a pretty huge number, but wasn't sure about "thousands", so I played it safe and said "hundreds". xD

Certainly, Ice Shape is also level 3. It just doesn't get the caster level bonus, which may or may not matter depending on how you're using it (enchantments, hp damage, or metamagic).

There's ways to get spells from other lists onto your own; I think there's a wiz ACF called Domain Wizard or something that will let you pick a cleric domain to add to your spells known. There's a ACF or domain that lets you choose your own spell choices in a dragon magazine (sorry I can't remember the name off the top of my head, but iirc you can pick any spell that matches a theme for some of the options, and there's a "spell domain" or "magic domain" or something option that lets you pick any spell, but at +1 level). Whether it's worth it for the payoff is for you to decide. There's also other things available like Spell Thematics or other metamagic like Energy Substitution or Snowcasting that will let you make some or all of your spells match your theme so you have a wider flavourful spell selection.

No worries. For practical purposes, it's really just hundreds like you said. There's a large percentage of sub-optimal spells out there.

[tadkins]

I think there's a wiz ACF called Domain Wizard or something that will let you pick a cleric domain to add to your spells known. There's a ACF or domain that lets you choose your own spell choices in a dragon magazine (sorry I can't remember the name off the top of my head, but iirc you can pick any spell that matches a theme for some of the options, and there's a "spell domain" or "magic domain" or something option that lets you pick any spell, but at +1 level). Whether it's worth it for the payoff is for you to decide. There's also other things available like Spell Thematics or other metamagic like Energy Substitution or Snowcasting that will let you make some or all of your spells match your theme so you have a wider flavourful spell selection.

Domain Wizard, if you're talking about the UA one, has a set selection of domains you can choose from, though none of them have the Ice Axe. The other option I think you're talking about is Arcane Disciple, which relies on having a certain amount of WIS I believe.

As far as feats go I'd likely have a number of them from FB, though I'm not certain yet. I'll probably need to spend a few on combat skills to make a wizard into a viable fighter.


No worries. For practical purposes, it's really just hundreds like you said. There's a large percentage of sub-optimal spells out there.

Yup, exactly! I made a thread about this a while back, questioning how people know which of the hundreds of spells are actually decent. A lot of them sound awesome but it's hard to tell which ones are decent. Precisely why I made this thread. And that's not even counting metamagic options; how do you know which metamagics are good, and which spells benefit the most from them? It's tough. xD

[Nifft]

Shadow Form
One of the things I want to do with this character is be able to move around in stealth when needed. Since I plan to have a level or two of Ranger this could prove to be a nice supplement. Of course there's also Invisibility, but thematically this spell seems pretty cool, and has the added benefit of moving through objects.

Shadow Form is great if you're already investing in Hide and Escape Artist -- i.e. if you're a hybrid Rogue of some kind.

If you have a way to Persist a spell for free, consider Nightstalker's Transformation in conjunction with Shadow Form. It's a bit too expensive and brief to use without Persist tricks, but as an all-day effect, it's quite amazing. (A friendly Chameleon can brew you the potion component for a mere 25 gp + 2 xp each, since the ingredient spell is 1st level on the Sand Shaper list.)

[Hecuba]

I'm a huge fan of Blistering Radiance, particularly when the damage type is changed to Acid via meta-magic.

Explosions are nice, but there are so many things that seem to be intact afterwards.
It's amazing how many problems you can solve by replacing a building (or fortifications or what have you) with glowing green goo.

[GilesTheCleric]

Domain Wizard, if you're talking about the UA one, has a set selection of domains you can choose from, though none of them have the Ice Axe. The other option I think you're talking about is Arcane Disciple, which relies on having a certain amount of WIS I believe.

As far as feats go I'd likely have a number of them from FB, though I'm not certain yet. I'll probably need to spend a few on combat skills to make a wizard into a viable fighter.

Yup, exactly! I made a thread about this a while back, questioning how people know which of the hundreds of spells are actually decent. A lot of them sound awesome but it's hard to tell which ones are decent. Precisely why I made this thread. And that's not even counting metamagic options; how do you know which metamagics are good, and which spells benefit the most from them? It's tough. xD

Ah, maybe that was it.

I don't think a wizard needs to spend any feats to be a good fighter. With polymorphing you can go straight to a face-smashing stat array, and you can pick up Power Attack with Heroics. It might be more difficult for a wizard to deal damage with a melee weapon without access to Righteous Might, Divine Power, and Righteous Wrath of the Faithful, but I'm sure you can sub in Haste, Enlarge Person, and maybe Tenser's Transformation. There's a couple weaponlike spells that use your casting stat or caster level to atk/dmg; was it called Thunder Lance? Sorry to be so imprecise; I haven't looked at the game for a while, wizards for a long time, and evocation spells even longer ago.

I have a "short list" of spells to make my selection as a cleric faster; out of 1100, this list has ~450 spells. Of those, I have 114 starred as being my favourite picks. That number is misleading as far as optimal spells goes, though, since I like a fair number of utility spells that most folks would probably keep on a scroll.

If you wanted to find an average number of optimal spells, you could check several class guides against one another; I bet that the number would be around 100-150 if you did so.

[Zetapup]

There's a couple weaponlike spells that use your casting stat or caster level to atk/dmg; was it called Thunder Lance? Sorry to be so imprecise; I haven't looked at the game for a while, wizards for a long time, and evocation spells even longer ago.

Yup, Thunderlance (Spell Compendium) definitely fits the profile of what you're talking about- 3d6 + cha or int modifier damage with 20ft reach. Sadly, the duration is p short unless you persist and/or extend it.