leveling a gold dragon as a pc. need advice

[eternal]

so I'm playing a gold dragon//crusader gestalt and I have NO clue how to begin the leveling process for the dragon side. The reason for a gold dragon is for RP purposes. I'm wondering if anyone has played a dragon to great wyrm and what your level process was. Any tips would be welcome.

Thanks.

[MrConsideration]

You have an incredibly lenient DM!

Perhaps advance an age category every few levels, which would leave you with a number of de facto 'dead' levels but give you progress over time.

[eternal]

You have an incredibly lenient DM!

Perhaps advance an age category every few levels, which would leave you with a number of de facto 'dead' levels but give you progress over time.

yeah lol the dm is my wife so this is an experiment. I thought about doing age categories per so many level but I'm not sure. I mean technically since a great wyrm has like 41 hit die and there would surely be a huge + ecl since a young gold is a +6 if I'm correct, however, we're curious how this would take us so I'm hoping someone can give me a good level per age breakdown.

[Magesmiley]

Dragon magazine #320 has a 20 level progression for all of the metallic dragons. Failing that, Savage Species would be the next best guidelines.

[Red Fel]

so I'm playing a gold dragon//crusader gestalt and I have NO clue how to begin the leveling process for the dragon side. The reason for a gold dragon is for RP purposes. I'm wondering if anyone has played a dragon to great wyrm and what your level process was. Any tips would be welcome.

Thanks.

Well, let's load you up with some required reading, shall we?

First off, here's Urpriest's Monstrous Monster Handbook (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?207928-Urpriest-s-Monstrous-Monster-Handbook), required reading for playing any distinctly inhuman race. It's Monsters 101. Second, since you've decided to major in Dragons, I'd suggest studying The Truest of the True (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?303204-The-Truest-of-the-True-A-Handbook-to-non-Kobold-Dragons-%28WIP%29) by WhamBamSam; it's a focused guide to Dragons specifically.

Now, as to advancing the Dragon, that's trickier. If you advance him with character levels, you'll still have your chunk of racial hit dice (RHD) and level adjustment (LA) as a baseline, although the latter can be bought off (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/reducingLevelAdjustments.htm). However, if you plan to have him grow and evolve his Dragon powers, you have to advance him by size. This means that, to grow to the next size and gain the next tier of power, you basically have to pay for the next number of RHD and LA.

Let's use Gold as the example. The smallest Gold Dragon (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/dragonTrue.htm#goldDragon) is a Wyrmling. It has 8 RHD and an LA of +4. That means you can play a Wyrmling Gold Dragon at level 12. A Very Young Gold Dragon has 11 RHD and an LA of +5, which means that you'd have to put in 3 more RHD and 1 more LA, adding 4 to your 12 for 16, before you could advance him to Very Young. Young is 14 RHD and +6 LA; it comes online at 20. Beyond that, Gold Dragons have a listed LA of --, meaning they're not intended to be playable.

In theory, if a DM is willing to ignore LA, you could get as high as Young Adult, which has 20 RHD. Keep in mind that those RHD also grant benefits much like taking class levels - a Dragon's RHD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#dragonType) give him d12 HD (better than the Crusader's d10), full BAB (same as Crusader), good progression on all saves (as opposed to Crusader, who only gets good Fort), and 6+Int skill points (better than Crusader's 4+Int). Dragons also get certain immunities, plus Darkvision and low-light vision. So you get a lot from your RHD. Not class features, but they do qualify you for the next tier of Dragon size, so it's up to you.

Read those resources, in any case. Playing a Gold Dragon is hard, given how high the RHD and LA requirements are. If you do decide to go with a Dragon//Crusader gestalt, consider the Wyrm of War Sovereign Archetype.

[eternal]

Well, let's load you up with some required reading, shall we?

First off, here's Urpriest's Monstrous Monster Handbook (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?207928-Urpriest-s-Monstrous-Monster-Handbook), required reading for playing any distinctly inhuman race. It's Monsters 101. Second, since you've decided to major in Dragons, I'd suggest studying The Truest of the True (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?303204-The-Truest-of-the-True-A-Handbook-to-non-Kobold-Dragons-%28WIP%29) by WhamBamSam; it's a focused guide to Dragons specifically.

Now, as to advancing the Dragon, that's trickier. If you advance him with character levels, you'll still have your chunk of racial hit dice (RHD) and level adjustment (LA) as a baseline, although the latter can be bought off (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/reducingLevelAdjustments.htm). However, if you plan to have him grow and evolve his Dragon powers, you have to advance him by size. This means that, to grow to the next size and gain the next tier of power, you basically have to pay for the next number of RHD and LA.

Let's use Gold as the example. The smallest Gold Dragon (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/dragonTrue.htm#goldDragon) is a Wyrmling. It has 8 RHD and an LA of +4. That means you can play a Wyrmling Gold Dragon at level 12. A Very Young Gold Dragon has 11 RHD and an LA of +5, which means that you'd have to put in 3 more RHD and 1 more LA, adding 4 to your 12 for 16, before you could advance him to Very Young. Young is 14 RHD and +6 LA; it comes online at 20. Beyond that, Gold Dragons have a listed LA of --, meaning they're not intended to be playable.

In theory, if a DM is willing to ignore LA, you could get as high as Young Adult, which has 20 RHD. Keep in mind that those RHD also grant benefits much like taking class levels - a Dragon's RHD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#dragonType) give him d12 HD (better than the Crusader's d10), full BAB (same as Crusader), good progression on all saves (as opposed to Crusader, who only gets good Fort), and 6+Int skill points (better than Crusader's 4+Int). Dragons also get certain immunities, plus Darkvision and low-light vision. So you get a lot from your RHD. Not class features, but they do qualify you for the next tier of Dragon size, so it's up to you.

Read those resources, in any case. Playing a Gold Dragon is hard, given how high the RHD and LA requirements are. If you do decide to go with a Dragon//Crusader gestalt, consider the Wyrm of War Sovereign Archetype.

Thanks for advice. We had considered just canning the LA and leveling up the dragon to young adult anyways. I'll def look at those links.

[Ruethgar]

It should be noted that the Dragon #320 article also (technically)
allows for you to play as an ECL 0 Hatchling indefinitely if the dragon bit is truly only for fluff. IIRC golds are medium too so that would be nice to get in doors and such.

[eternal]

It should be noted that the Dragon #320 article also (technically)
allows for you to play as an ECL 0 Hatchling indefinitely if the dragon bit is truly only for fluff. IIRC golds are medium too so that would be nice to get in doors and such.

yeah I looked at dragon magazine 320, the dracanomicon, and savage species. In the end we decided to level the gold dragon with out LA based on RD. so in the end the character will be a young adult dragon//crusader.

[Red Fel]

yeah I looked at dragon magazine 320, the dracanomicon, and savage species. In the end we decided to level the gold dragon with out LA based on RD. so in the end the character will be a young adult dragon//crusader.

So, wait, you're starting at level 20?

[eternal]

So, wait, you're starting at level 20?

No we're staying at level 8. And going to 20+ Depending on how the campaign goes.

[ComaVision]

No we're staying at level 8. And going to 20+ Depending on how the campaign goes.

So you get an extra 12 HD for free? :smallconfused: I hope the rest of the group is getting comparable power increases.

[ZamielVanWeber]

So you get an extra 12 HD for free? :smallconfused: I hope the rest of the group is getting comparable power increases.

Technically it is 6 RHD and an age category, but the point stands. Although a gold dragon//crusader could solo decently.

[ComaVision]

Technically it is 6 RHD and an age category, but the point stands. Although a gold dragon//crusader could solo decently.

Young Adult, not Young.

[ZamielVanWeber]

Young Adult, not Young.

I dropped juvenile when I went over it in my head. So 6 RHD and 2 age categories.

[eternal]

Technically it is 6 RHD and an age category, but the point stands. Although a gold dragon//crusader could solo decently.

Well I'm starting as a wyrmling at level 8 then progressing too young adult at level 20. As far add the campaign it's a solO campaign with a a cohort and a few dm pcs

[ComaVision]

Well I'm starting as a wyrmling at level 8 then progressing too young adult at level 20

Oh OK, I get it now. Have fun!

[eternal]

I am open to other ways to level if anyone has any other good ideas

[OldTrees1]

The RAW rules for a Gold Dragon PC are found in the Draconomicon (pg 141-144).

Gold Dragon PCs start as Wyrmlings with 8RHD and +4LA.
Then they gain in this order:
ECL12: Start with 8RHD, +4LA, & Wyrmling
ECL13: 1RHD
ECL14: 1RHD
ECL15: +1LA
ECL16: 1RHD & Very Young
ECL17: 1RHD
ECL18: 1RHD
ECL19: +1LA
ECL20: 1RHD & Young

Backtracking towards ECL 8 would follow a 3RHD, +1LA & 1 Age Category per 4ECL pattern
ECL8: Start with 5RHD, +3LA, & Young Wyrmling(count as Age Category 0)
ECL9: 1RHD
ECL10: 1RHD
ECL11: +1LA


However you might want to just use this giantitp homebrew instead: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=9260930&postcount=187