Will Save World for Gold

[Lizard Lord]

There was a previous thread for this comic (http://willsaveworldforgold.com/) (which you can start reading here (http://willsaveworldforgold.com/?p=18)) on here, but it seems to have fallen to the wayside. Anyways I made this thread rather than posting on the on-site forums because 1) I don't really like making new accounts on websites unless I am certain I will use that account often and 2) I have something I really want to say in regards to the most recent comic, which is:

WHAT THE HELL PEANUT?! Enslaving enemies and people that wronged you personally (which I don't believe Ell's parents have) is one thing, but enslaving your friend's parents is not okay!

I mean....okay, enslaving anyone is not okay and I know the Evergards are far from a fan favorite, but this still feels like a far cry from the guy that paid for a large family's circus tickets just because he can't stand to see kids without balloons.

I would also like to note a serious lack of world saving in this comic, though I suppose they just aren't high enough level for that.

[The Glyphstone]

He's probably Unaligned - so this sort of 'whatever makes me feel good' behavior is in keeping with his (theorized) alignment. It's not Good, but not necessarily Evil yet either.

[The Mormegil]

I don't think he has any concept of the moral implications of what he's doing. He's just doing stuff he finks is funny, and he's getting back at Ardon and people because he can. I doubt he'd go all evil and make them do his bidding for long.

But then again, power does corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

[Anteros]

I'm sure he will come around once Odie and El ask him to

[dancrilis]

Peanut is right, giving away the amulet puts him under someone else's power. Faced with that why trust anyone else with it?

I wouldn't trust the skull with it either, even thought I suspect he will be cool with it.

[Neoriceisgood]

WSWFG is pretty much the comic of weird moralities by now. :smallconfused:

[Emperor Time]

Well at least of the people that wanted the amulet, Peanut seems to be the best user of it.

[Lizard Lord]

If Peanut is enslaving people that were jerks to him, why isn't 45 enslaved?

[The Glyphstone]

When was 45 a jerk to Peanut?

[Lizard Lord]

When was 45 a jerk to Peanut?

How about when he, along with the innkeeper, made Peanut work without getting paid or when he left Peanut to die when the Guardian showed up.

[LoneStarNorth]

If Peanut is enslaving people that were jerks to him, why isn't 45 enslaved?

Fortyfive's jerkery was mostly passive, merely allowing crappy things to happen to Peanut without interfering. Therefore he got stabbed once early on and things were left at that. Ardon's jerkery, however, is very much intentional and aggressive and therefore warranted more serious acts of vengeance.

[The Glyphstone]

How about when he, along with the innkeeper, made Peanut work without getting paid or when he left Peanut to die when the Guardian showed up.

The former is on the innkeeper's shoulders - 45 was just another employee of the inn. And how would you pay a subsentient drone, anyways, or even get it to understand the concept of money? You could just as easily interpret their actions as benevolent by giving the lost and stupid kobold a roof over its head and meals, putting it to menial work for that room+board.

He was at worst guilty of passive neglect, as pointed out; he got his one stabbing and Peanut considered them square.

[-skimmer-]

...and he broke it.

Its because he said "please", isnt it?

[ImperatorV]

Or ordering Ardon to stop doing bad things is impossible and the amulet couldn't handle it.

[The Glyphstone]

Yup, it was an Impossible Command.

Now who is this joker that just oneshot all of the enemy minions. Have we seen him before?

[dancrilis]

He is part of the Sons of Solemnity.

[Emperor Time]

Yup, it was an Impossible Command.

Now who is this joker that just oneshot all of the enemy minions. Have we seen him before?

There in the same party as Ell's parents if I remember right.

[Lizard Lord]

Someone needs to explain to me what Solar Wrath does so I can figure out what, if anything, it says about the waiter in the upper left of the last panel.

[Douglas]

Someone needs to explain to me what Solar Wrath does so I can figure out what, if anything, it says about the waiter in the upper left of the last panel.
It selectively targets all enemies (and only enemies) in a large area near the caster and deals a bunch of radiant damage to each of them (subject to an attack roll, no effect on a miss). I guess this means Solar Wrath Guy (I'm declaring that his official name now :smalltongue:) considered the waiter an enemy, or at least thought he might be and was willing to risk being wrong about it. Undead and demons also get stunned by it, but enemies of all types take the damage.

[Zaydos]

And I think today's strip is my favorite WSWfG strip yet.

[SZbNAhL]

I've been looking back through the archives, and I've realised that I have absolutely no idea who Mysterious Archer is. It's kind of being treated as a running gag that their identity is painfully obvious and Ardon is being unusually dense in not recognising them, but I'm coming up blank. Anyone care to enlighten me?

[Lizard Lord]

Its Chandea, the archer that hates Ardon for reasons he forgot, is trying to raise her party from the dead, and is a big fan of the Sons of Solemnity.

[Draconi Redfir]

to add to that, back at the beginning of the comic she lead a rival party that met up with the WSTWFG crew. The two blondes had an argument over who was a better leader, and decided to swap parties for a dungeon crawl to see who got to the treasure room first.

Technically Ardon and Chandea's party got there first, but none of Chandea's party was "alive" persey. Ardon sacrificed them all off to monsters and traps one by one to save his own skin, think he took the head of at least one of them with him, then set up some fakes in the treasure room (one using the dead head of the party member which subsequently fell off the dummy, giving away the hoax). While Chandea had kept all of Ardon's group alive the whole trip.

Ardon argued he was the better leader because he got the goal of reaching the treasure room first.
Chandea argued that she was the better leader because she didn't kill her entire party to get there.

Ever since Chandea has been trying to resurrect her party members, gaining gold any way she can to raise one or two of them up, only to have them die off again soonafter through a horrid twist of fate, typically something Ardon an his party either caused, recently dealt with, or could have fixed had they known about it.

Basically the universe is railroading her, telling her that her party isn't going to come back and she ought to just join Ardon's party already.

[SZbNAhL]

Oh, yeah...

Same arrows, same hair, eye and skin colours, appears for the first time shortly after Chandera's told that Ardon's missing - I guess I'm just really dense.

Thankye kindly, fellow playgrounders.

[stsasser]

Don't do it Peanut! You're an Autumn and your blue tunic already makes you look like you're wearing a skinned-Smurf out of season. :smalleek:

Bone-white is a much better match. Let Barry make it into a turban.

[Lizard Lord]

Oh, yeah...

Same arrows, same hair, eye and skin colours, appears for the first time shortly after Chandera's told that Ardon's missing - I guess I'm just really dense.

Thankye kindly, fellow playgrounders.

Eh. I remember when "Mysterious Archer" first showed up there was at least one person trying to argue that it might not be Chandea.

[Lizard Lord]

Okay, Odie, now you can blast Ardon for that. :smallbiggrin:

[Panzer]

Ardon is not jealous, is he? lol!

[Douglas]

Ardon is not jealous, is he? lol!
As far as I recall, the only party member in question here is Ardon himself. So, he's distorting the truth on a technicality to justify keeping more money for himself. Typical Ardon, really.

[Panzer]

As far as I recall, the only party member in question here is Ardon himself. So, he's distorting the truth on a technicality to justify keeping more money for himself. Typical Ardon, really.

Aw. And here I was expecting for more tension within the party. Specially if he wasn't willing to consciously admit it (thus giving the nightmare spirit more ammo to use against him)(it never works for the nightmare spirit though. lol).

[Lizard Lord]

I am guessing Odie's review isn't going to have much positives (seriously, Odie just isn't smart and wastes his spells.), and that Fortyfive will be told he is unreliable in a crisis (absolutely true, and its deliberate which just makes it worse.), but I am not sure what Ardon will say about Peanut.

[Panzer]

So far looks pretty status-quo-ish. Wonder if Odivallus has anything special coming for him after having blasted Ardon through a wall, but he already took his apology, so I'm guessing not. He'll definitely bring the topic up to make him suffer, though. lol

I wonder if Ardon is planning something, or otherwise what is the reason behind this other than paperwork for its sake, but then again, he is Chaotic.

Update: He took an interesting approach. lol

Update: I love Ardon :v

[Lizard Lord]

Would the each of the demon clowns count? If so that would make Thuckwait, Dire, and the demon clowns the four megalomaniacs.

Or would it be Thuckwait, Dire, Ardon, and Peanut? :smalltongue:

[Anteros]

Would the each of the demon clowns count? If so that would make Thuckwait, Dire, and the demon clowns the four megalomaniacs.

Or would it be Thuckwait, Dire, Ardon, and Peanut? :smalltongue:

I think he's definitely including Peanut. That's why Peanut counts less.

[OmnivorousOgre]

Oh hey, WSWfG has a thread here. Nice. If things aren't going to end poorly for that poor 2nd level guard, I'll be very, very suprised.

[ImperatorV]

I love it when the NPCs of the world end up agreeing with Ardon on things.

[The Glyphstone]

I got the impression Rules 1 through 3 were already part of the aforementioned handbook.

[Douglas]

I got the impression Rules 1 through 3 were already part of the aforementioned handbook.
Me too. I imagine the entire handbook essentially boils down to "the adventurers will consider you a useless nuisance, try to avoid reminding them of why". It's a quite realistic stance to take, I think, judging by what I know of typical D&D player habits.

[Panzer]

Looks like a major quest lies ahead :P

[Lizard Lord]

Looks like a major quest lies ahead :P

Yea meta logic clearly works in this universe, but Ardon's meta logic was insufficient.


While Bandits are usually not dangerous to a proper adventurer there does still exist the rare ones that are. More importantly is the fact that they are being paid quite well for this job (because when has any adventurer been paid that much to do something as easy as Ardon explains), which almost certainly guarantees a "major quest" of some sort.

[Panzer]

They have also been doing rather side-questy stuff lately, so a change of pace is welcome.

My wild guess is that the Tarrin loose end is going to have something to do in all this. Maybe they are the bandits? Maybe they paid the bandits to do their banditry and lure Ardon's party out to camp in the middle of a forest, where there's few, if any, witnessing humans around?

[The Mormegil]

If you go back and read the job description again, it's pretty clear that this is a setup by Ardon's brother.

[SZbNAhL]

If you go back and read the job description again, it's pretty clear that this is a setup by Ardon's brother.

Hmm... No actual evidence of bandit existence, reward offered by a group of "elven merchants" (read: pointy-eared folk in nice clothes), how did I miss that?

On an unrelated note, who else thinks Barry's hat is going to turn out to be a super-powerful magic item?

[ImperatorV]

Well. That was a thing.

[Panzer]

OMG :O

I doubt he has the means to get out of that, what with all the high level fey all around; half of his party probably isn't keen on helping him, knowing what he did, and the other still got paid to not do anything. Maybe with help from the nightmare spirit, directly or not? Incite Terror? Maybe he will wait until Ardon is knocked out and shift into Torrin's head (inter-party drama! ooo)?

Also, that bitchslap, doe.

[SZbNAhL]

I was reading back over the island arc, and I noticed something in this (http://willsaveworldforgold.com/?p=816) strip:


I don't make the rules yet.

It's wild theory time.

Ardon's mysteriously able to change his multiclass on a whim (http://willsaveworldforgold.com/?p=839) and is accused of "premeditated disruption of natural law" (http://willsaveworldforgold.com/?p=983). This got me wondering what other clues I've missed about Ardon's meddling with the universe, so I reread the entire comic and found this page I'd forgotten about (http://willsaveworldforgold.com/?p=1355), in which Ardon more or less admits to creating a "ripple" which created "a wide array of new effects that ignore the physical limitations of our world".

What was a level one non-caster doing attempting to gain omnipotence? And actually having a measure of success at that?

[The Glyphstone]

Keep in mind Ardon also has no soul.

http://willsaveworldforgold.com/?p=822

Where it went hasn't been explained, but it might be related to his free multiclassing, and selling your soul is the classic sort of thing someone seeking ultimate power would do.

[Anteros]

I somewhat feel like he's just lying about retraining in order to hide his abilities rather than actually retraining.

Either way, it doesn't really have any effect on your theory.


Keep in mind Ardon also has no soul.

http://willsaveworldforgold.com/?p=822

Where it went hasn't been explained, but it might be related to his free multiclassing, and selling your soul is the classic sort of thing someone seeking ultimate power would do.

My own pet theory is that Ardon was actually a not completely terrible person at one point, and his soul was taken from him by his father.

[Lizard Lord]

So...I am really hoping Ell either saves Odivallus or somehow saves both (Ardon being saved by someone else doesn't count, because my cocern with this post is what Ell chooses.) I mean, sure, we know that Ardon is actually telling the truth about how him living is best for everyone but Ell has no reason to believe him. Because, honestly, if it weren't the truth I am certain Ardon would lied to save his own skin. Ell is willing to save Ardon despite knowing the kind of person he is, but knowing the kind of person Ardon is also means that she knows he can't be trusted.

If Ell is absolutely convinced that she has to choose between saving Ardon and saving Odivallus, she darn well better choose Odivallus.

[Anteros]

So...I am really hoping Ell either saves Odivallus or somehow saves both (Ardon being saved by someone else doesn't count, because my cocern with this post is what Ell chooses.) I mean, sure, we know that Ardon is actually telling the truth about how him living is best for everyone but Ell has no reason to believe him. Because, honestly, if it weren't the truth I am certain Ardon would lied to save his own skin. Ell is willing to save Ardon despite knowing the kind of person he is, but knowing the kind of person Ardon is also means that she knows he can't be trusted.

If Ell is absolutely convinced that she has to choose between saving Ardon and saving Odivallus, she darn well better choose Odivallus.

She also knows Ardon's plans have saved her and the party dozens of times. I wouldn't call that no reason to believe him.

[SZbNAhL]

I'm not convinced that she can save Odivallus. I mean, she can block a single attack and he has three high-level fey attacking him alongside a whole bunch of minions and at least one bear. And isn't he already low on HP? Block the attack on Ardon and he's safe; block the attack on Odi and his death gets delayed a little.

[The Mormegil]

She also knows Ardon's plans have saved her and the party dozens of times. I wouldn't call that no reason to believe him.

I'm calling the following: Odi goes down, Ell saves Ardon, Ardon uses a readied action to dominate one of the fey to save Odi, then cures him. Odi going down means Peanut has a reason to fight the fey and he can take one of them out after stealthing right next to him. The four together can probably beat the goons, but Ardon's brother will be too much for them. I predict this to be a fight with a lot of losses, possibly requiring some resurrections in the near future. I also can't really predict whether the nightmare spirit will stay inside Ardon or migrate to his brother before the end of the fight.

[Panzer]

Maybe Ell saves Odi, Ardon bites it, and the Nightmare Spirit finally gets his chance to fulfill his plan? Which could get suddenly and hilariously thwarted by an unexpected twist. Much frustration for the Spirit ensues.

That could lead to the rest of the party also finally finding out about the Spirit's existence (development?) OR somehow not understanding what's going on, like when Archwarlock Maloysius Dire *krackaboom* almost extirpated the spirit (status quo?). Ardon could later on say he just multiclassed *again* to justify the spirits actions :D

Uhh... almost? Torrin's too savvy, dang it.

[ImperatorV]

Oh, Torrin, Torrin, Torrin. You cannot expect things to go as planned if you say something like that right before killing someone.

This is either the Nightmare spirit's big getaway and Torrin's about to get his soul eaten, or something unexpected is about to come up.

[Panzer]

Mysterious Mystery Archer Woman! I was expecting this exact same thing so much, I actually didn't think it was going to happen. lol

Isn't Ardon's HP about 30?

[ImperatorV]

Oh dear. Introspective Ardon. This is going to lead to him going back for the rest of his party isn't it?

[Lizard Lord]

Oh dear. Introspective Ardon. This is going to lead to him going back for the rest of his party isn't it?

Well....obviously.

Also I think Chandea is missing the point of Ardon's story. He is not complaining that none of his friends can help him (as per Chandea's situation), but that none of the people he thought were his friends would help him.

[ImperatorV]

Considering he is very likely the first Lord of the Owlbears, he probably can name his attacks whatever he wants. Also, it seems like either he or someone else modified him to be able to contain and control spirits.

[Panzer]

Probably himself, considering the Ripple.

Also, I can't get enough of OWLBEARRR... :D

[The Mormegil]

Hah! The circus arc wasn't completely pointless fun! It actually mattered!

Also I'm really curious now what exactly has Ardon done to himself. He probably sold his soul to become the Lord of Owlbears. But what exactly is the Ripple?

[Draconi Redfir]

between him not having a soul on him, being able to use the ability's of spirits, and being able to change his class/abilities at seemingly will...

i dunno. he had to have done something that altered the laws of reality for them, wich is what the ripple is.killed/absorbed some powerful spirit that held physics together or something?

[Panzer]

I don't really know what the Ripple is. Perhaps someone more perceptive caught on enough hints for a theory, but beyond Ardon messing up with the world's "rules" somehow, I don't know what he did :P

Also, I'm more in band with the theory that he actually doesn't *change* his classes and skills at will, but rather he simply has more stuff than he should. After all, the "random" stuff he seems to have is somewhat constant: Thunderwave, the bardic whatevers, and the ability to mess with spirits in general. I think the "I retrained my class/skills" is merely a lie he says to everyone else.

edit for wild theory: maybe, since he (and in the case he really) hasn't any soul, his body is like a soul-black-hole... whatever the Ripple is, its effect on him is letting him absorb spirits and appropriate their abilities. Thunderwave, the bard stuffs... his owlbear-related abilities, maybe all of them belonged to a different being, like incite terror belonged to the Nightmare spirit?

edit#2: maybe he swallowed the patron deity of owlbears O:

--

It's silly how abandoning his party in this situation actually makes the most strategical sense for Ardon, and he can actually justify it. He can later say he somehow knew about the owlbear -it's the kind of thing Ardon would lie about-, and retreated in order to regroup and then free his party once they were all distracted by Torrin's interrogation, arguing that he would know his brother would take his time chatting before ultimately killing them off. And since he'll (maybe) save their lives once again, they won't be able to complain :P

--

I like Masked Mystery Girl wayyyy more than Chandea for some weird reason.

[stsasser]

I begin to see why Ardon is so disdainful of Torrin; part previous experience with Torrin, part genre savvy - the villain always selects the instrument that will break, the minion that will betray him, the method that will access his victim's inner aquatic dragon.

[The Glyphstone]

I think it's more that he doesn't realize Odi can breath underwater.

[Panzer]

Which fits with Ardon's genre savvyness. lol

Back since their first adventure Ardon has been correctly making predictions that no one will listen to. lol

[Lizard Lord]

Of course Ell still needs to play this carefully since the second Torrin realizes that Odie can't drown he will use other methods to threaten him.

[stsasser]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!! :smallfurious:

[ImperatorV]

Noooooooo!

Dangnabit. Is there a revive undead or equivalent in 4e?

[Anteros]

Noooooooo!

Dangnabit. Is there a revive undead or equivalent in 4e?

They could probably get him for real resurrected if they wanted to.

[OmnivorousOgre]

They could probably get him for real resurrected if they wanted to.

I hope that's what happens. Then Barry could be a fully functioning member of the party, too. :smallsmile:

[Panzer]

Oooh, he could get a character portrait, too.

EDIT: ARDON YES.

[ImperatorV]

So, taking bets: part of the plan, not part of the plan, or was part of the plan but was not in the letters Ardon gave Odi and 45?

[Douglas]

I'm guessing part of the plan. I don't think 45 would go back on his word this quickly and completely, Ardon knows Odi hates him and would keep that in mind when planning, and there are way too many possibilities for convoluted ways to turn this (or the appearance of this) to his advantage.

[Lizard Lord]

I feel like this almost has to be part of the plan given that we don't even have an inkling of what the plan is and we are, as LSN says, only two pages in. Its way too soon for the plan to have gone wrong.

[LoneStarNorth]

Its way too soon for the plan to have gone wrong.

Funniest thing I've read all week.

[Leewei]

So, Ellie, Peanut, and the masked archer are off to parts unknown, while the others have taken Ardon back to the waterfall and into the sights of a vengeful henchman.

The tactical situation could well be very good for our heroes. With Torrin and most of his top tier muscle gone, the party has a real shot at doing some real damage to Torrin's organization.

We just need the other half of the group to show up.

[Draconi Redfir]

in the words of M night shamamalon;

http://i.imgur.com/5iUhYf9.png

[Leewei]

Okay, we just need the other 2/3 of the group to show up ... :smallamused:

[Ibrinar]

Now I'm curious about the next step. Stalling is well and good, placing two of your team members in the mid of the archers is a bit risky so what is the payoff?

[Anteros]

Now I'm curious about the next step. Stalling is well and good, placing two of your team members in the mid of the archers is a bit risky so what is the payoff?

Probably distracting the enemy while you get your own people in place to take out the archers.

[The Mormegil]

I'm betting Odivallus is oblivious and didn't know, whereas Fortyfive knows Ardon's plan and is playing along.

[Leewei]

Odi's reaction when their prisoner spoke implies he at least knew it wasn't Ardon. It's pretty clear that many of them are at least a little in the dark about the plan.

It also looks like Ardon has his brother's play book. He knew who was watching and where they were, as well as the actions his impersonator was going to take. He's a self-absorbed, homicidal jerk, but his estimation of his own planning skill (if not leadership) looks pretty justified.

[Lizard Lord]

I'm pretty sure everyone (except Ardon) is in the dark about the whole plan, but they all (obviously) know their own part.

[Leewei]

I'm pretty sure everyone (except Ardon) is in the dark about the whole plan, but they all (obviously) know their own part.

Ardon pretty much said so when he handed out his instructions. My only point was that Odi and 45 knew the person they were attacking wasn't Ardon.

[The Mormegil]

Ardon pretty much said so when he handed out his instructions. My only point was that Odi and 45 knew the person they were attacking wasn't Ardon.

Honestly, I wasn't so sure.

[Douglas]

...Wow. Ardon has really outdone himself with this plan.

[SZbNAhL]

Oh yeah, Ell's parents are two members of one of the most powerful adventuring parties in the world, aren't they? I can't believe I forgot that.

[dancrilis]

I have to say I liked Carkun - more media could use characters like him.

[stsasser]

For Barry! :smallfurious:

[Hamste]

So this seems to be going a bit too smoothly. Any one think Torrin is sacrificing his entire team while he catches Ardon? After all what is a warlord with out strikers? Not quite sure why he would do that unless he expected a team of high level adventurers to be called in though. Torrin's team definitely seemed to have the upper hand in terms of strength.

[OmnivorousOgre]

So that closes the curtains for Carkun. I have to say, the page that ended with him saying he's going to die doing what he loves was amazing.

And I think Ardon is currently running for the hills, thinking that his party is dead by now :smallbiggrin:

[Anteros]

I think Ardon is usually too smart to remove himself from the powerful group of people with a vested interest in protecting him. At least now that they have the advantage.

[Douglas]

This battle's practically running on a script, which Ardon wrote, and he wrote that script all the way through to a victorious end. He might be uncertain about his party's ability to pull it off, but he's in the best position of anyone to know the odds and he's very confident in his own planning ability. I really doubt Ardon will actually be surprised by them winning, and he's realized that sticking together gives him the best protection he's likely to find.

Ardon might be hiding out to prevent any possibility of confusing him with his impostor, but I expect he'll be on hand to claim credit for the victory (with actually pretty good justification) the moment he thinks it's safe. He might even crash the battle, having just waited to be sure his support is all there first.

[stsasser]

This battle's practically running on a script, which Ardon wrote, and he wrote that script all the way through to a victorious end. He might be uncertain about his party's ability to pull it off, but he's in the best position of anyone to know the odds and he's very confident in his own planning ability. I really doubt Ardon will actually be surprised by them winning, and he's realized that sticking together gives him the best protection he's likely to find.

Ardon might be hiding out to prevent any possibility of confusing him with his impostor, but I expect he'll be on hand to claim credit for the victory (with actually pretty good justification) the moment he thinks it's safe. He might even crash the battle, having just waited to be sure his support is all there first.

You don't think Ardon is the 'imposter'? :smallconfused:

[Hamste]

So what was the most damage we have ever seen from a single attack in the comic (not counting scenarios where the opponent is pushed off something to fall)? Forty-five did 39 but was there a more damaging attack somewhere.

[SZbNAhL]

So what was the most damage we have ever seen from a single attack in the comic (not counting scenarios where the opponent is pushed off something to fall)? Forty-five did 39 but was there a more damaging attack somewhere.

I recall some in the 40s, but I don't think there've been any in the 50s or higher.

[Douglas]

Ardon's elaborate explosion gambit (http://willsaveworldforgold.com/?p=1407) hit Archwarlock Maloysius Dire (krackaboom) for 49. I think that's the highest single hit so far. The total damage from taking off the green dragon's anti-trap amulet (http://willsaveworldforgold.com/?p=483) was higher, but came from five separate hits each individually lower.

[Hamste]

Ardon's elaborate explosion gambit (http://willsaveworldforgold.com/?p=1407) hit Archwarlock Maloysius Dire (krackaboom) for 49. I think that's the highest single hit so far. The total damage from taking off the green dragon's anti-trap amulet (http://willsaveworldforgold.com/?p=483) was higher, but came from five separate hits each individually lower.

Ok, ignoring the green dragon as that seemed to come from five different traps we currently have a record of 49 damage. Incidentally, I like how the Archwarlock crit for 30 and now what 4 days (?) later fortyfive did 39 with out a crit. Obviously, the warlock probably had powers not really focused on blasting (Or required too much time for him to use and still run away) but it is kind of funny how much less damage the Archwarlock did compared to fortyfive.

[LoneStarNorth]

...it is kind of funny how much less damage the Archwarlock did compared to fortyfive.

A barbarian level 5 or higher with a 2d6 damage weapon and no other major fights coming up before bedtime can do truly beautiful things.

[Hamste]

A barbarian level 5 or higher with a 2d6 damage weapon and no other major fights coming up before bedtime can do truly beautiful things.

It is about as much damage as a pathfinder magus (More damage than the Magus if that was average but the Magus probably has a much better chance to crit). Magus are truly brutal when it comes to damage.

So, I don't play 4e and don't recognize powers and what not. Was that a daily power or was it something else that can be used multiple times?

[LoneStarNorth]

So, I don't play 4e and don't recognize powers and what not. Was that a daily power or was it something else that can be used multiple times?

Barbarian once-per-day powers are called rages. They're attacks that do moderate/high damage and give some sort of lasting benefit for the rest of the combat. If a barbarian has already used one and has another still available, they can burn one of those daily powers to use Rage Strike instead. It doesn't have any lasting bonus or special effect or any of that fancy stuff, but the damage is ridiculous.

A 6th level character like Fortyfive only has two daily powers, meaning he has to use both in the same encounter to use Rage Strike.

[Zaydos]

Specifically at 5th/6th level it deals (4 x Weapon) + modifiers, so if he's using a 2d6 weapon that'd be 28 average before modifiers so this would be a slightly above average one (though maul might have a thing where it re-rolls ones and increase the average to ~32 before Str, feats, and magic weapon, making this an average one). For comparison, an encounter power for a 23rd level barbarian deals the same base damage (that from Str, feats, and weapon will increase slightly) with a 1 round debuff.

[ImperatorV]

...Well of course Ardon would fight the toughest opponent by himself. Or maybe he just doesn't want his party hearing what Torrin might start saying if he starts losing.

[stsasser]

Drawing all that eyebrow movement must be exhausting.

[Leewei]

He might even crash the battle, having just waited to be sure his support is all there first.

Victory involves removing his brother's willingness or ability to harm his companions. Toward that end, the plan involved the destruction or capture of his brother's agents.

Torrin and his remaining hench-Xivart remain at large. Ardon's playing to win, so I expect he's going to be attempting something in the way of killing the last henchman. Ardon might be doing the selfless thing and going back to his family to get his brother to call off his vendetta. That'd be poignant, but not terribly funny.

What would be funny? Ardon's actions being the only part of his plan to fail because he overestimated himself. That's what I'm guessing has happened.

[Lizard Lord]

Crazy tin-foil hat theory that I don't really believe myself but want to call anyways in the .5% chance (and even that may be a generous exaggeration) that its right: That's not Chandea currently in the green mask, but Ardon in disguise. :smallbiggrin:

[SZbNAhL]

Crazy tin-foil hat theory that I don't really believe myself but want to call anyways in the .5% chance (and even that may be a generous exaggeration) that its right: That's not Chandea currently in the green mask, but Ardon in disguise. :smallbiggrin:

They have mentioned quite a few times that he can pass as a woman...

[Hamste]

They have mentioned quite a few times that he can pass as a woman...

When would he have used how to use a bow that well though? I think they missed exactly once (Against Carkun who may have just used an ability to block), is capable of firing 4 times in a round (A daily power thing? Again don't know how common of an ability that is) and did 11, 18, 14, 7, 10, 12 and 3 (That was a strange one. Again don't know how damage is calculated but compared to other damage it seems like it is decent damage.). That seems to suggest they are using a weapon they are extremely good with and I can't imagine Ardon holding out that he was that good with a bow for that long.

[Hamste]

So just posting this so I can say I called it. Ardon's brother isn't alone. Manwell or whatever the name of the blue thing is hasn't be accounted for. From the number of poisoned things that were set up it seems likely he is rogue with poison use (if that is still a thing in 4e) or an assassin.

[SZbNAhL]

So just posting this so I can say I called it. Ardon's brother isn't alone. Manwell or whatever the name of the blue thing is hasn't be accounted for. From the number of poisoned things that were set up it seems likely he is rogue with poison use (if that is still a thing in 4e) or an assassin.

Also remember that radio transmitter Torrin had built. Could be to call in reinforcements.

[ImperatorV]

Ardon has way too much fun being a walking nightmare bomb.

[Douglas]

Ardon has way too much fun being a walking nightmare bomb.
Reminds me of his confrontation with Dire (http://willsaveworldforgold.com/?p=1379).

[The Mormegil]

It's going to get thwarted this time around.

[stsasser]

Niiiiiiiice!

[Panzer]

can't unsummon the truth!!

[Draconi Redfir]

... Well done Ardon... Well done.:smallamused:

[SZbNAhL]

Wait, so the cannister contained Torrin's head and a bomb? Then why did Ardon spend all that time arguing with the Nightmare Spirit about whether or not to keep him alive? I'm missing something obvious again, aren't I?

[Hamste]

... Well done Ardon... Well done.:smallamused:

Probably not well done though. He gave into the nightmare spirit, murdered his brother (Unless he did some weird things to make a fake head) and killed who knows how many innocent people to slightly delay anyone following and to instill fear into others. To put it another way he literally brought a bomb into that worlds version of an airport for the purpose of making them afraid of him. It couldn't even be argued that he did it solely to delay pursuit because he could just as easily been placed on that side of the portal and didn't need to include the head. Ardon was making a statement by putting his Brother's head into the device, making it into a bomb and sticking it through the portal though. The statement is that he will kill anyone in his way and he doesn't care who he kills to get what he wants. In other words Ardon became a terrorist (on top of the mass murderer he already was).

[Hamste]

Wait, so the cannister contained Torrin's head and a bomb? Then why did Ardon spend all that time arguing with the Nightmare Spirit about whether or not to keep him alive? I'm missing something obvious again, aren't I?

Ardon did that after we last saw him (and after the argument. The Nightmare spirit was laughing because it had won the argument). That is presumably why he told Manuel to get over there, he had to set up the bomb carefully and Manuel had shown he was good with devices. While Manuel was doing that, he presumably executed his brother and chopped off the head.

[-skimmer-]

...maybe he kept rest of his body so he can ressurect him later?

[SZbNAhL]

Ardon did that after we last saw him (and after the argument. The Nightmare spirit was laughing because it had won the argument). That is presumably why he told Manuel to get over there, he had to set up the bomb carefully and Manuel had shown he was good with devices. While Manuel was doing that, he presumably executed his brother and chopped off the head.

Ah, I somehow managed to miss this page (http://willsaveworldforgold.com/?p=1923), where all of that stuff happened. Thanks.

[Anteros]

Probably not well done though. He gave into the nightmare spirit, murdered his brother (Unless he did some weird things to make a fake head) and killed who knows how many innocent people to slightly delay anyone following and to instill fear into others. To put it another way he literally brought a bomb into that worlds version of an airport for the purpose of making them afraid of him. It couldn't even be argued that he did it solely to delay pursuit because he could just as easily been placed on that side of the portal and didn't need to include the head. Ardon was making a statement by putting his Brother's head into the device, making it into a bomb and sticking it through the portal though. The statement is that he will kill anyone in his way and he doesn't care who he kills to get what he wants. In other words Ardon became a terrorist (on top of the mass murderer he already was).

I can't really blame him for bombing a group that was actively preparing to come through the portal and murder him. It's certainly not the worst thing he's ever done.

[Hamste]

I can't really blame him for bombing a group that was actively preparing to come through the portal and murder him. It's certainly not the worst thing he's ever done.

It wouldn't be bad if that was a military base (well it would be bad as he was still killing random people but you know what I mean). That however, was a public transport building with tourists in it that are just traveling and are completely unrelated to Ardon's bounty. The area around it might have been heavily guarded but it is not like people couldn't be walking along when the bomb goes off and it is literally right next to a gate where random travelers come and go (for the scale here is the comic. (http://willsaveworldforgold.com/?p=953)).

[Draconi Redfir]

Probably not well done though. He gave into the nightmare spirit, murdered his brother (Unless he did some weird things to make a fake head) and killed who knows how many innocent people to slightly delay anyone following and to instill fear into others. To put it another way he literally brought a bomb into that worlds version of an airport for the purpose of making them afraid of him. It couldn't even be argued that he did it solely to delay pursuit because he could just as easily been placed on that side of the portal and didn't need to include the head. Ardon was making a statement by putting his Brother's head into the device, making it into a bomb and sticking it through the portal though. The statement is that he will kill anyone in his way and he doesn't care who he kills to get what he wants. In other words Ardon became a terrorist (on top of the mass murderer he already was).

A few things.


to instill fear into others. To put it another way he literally brought a bomb into that worlds version of an airport for the purpose of making them afraid of him.
1. Exactly, he was making a statement to the feywild. He's saying "This is what happens when people come after me. Leave. Me. Alone." And i for one would like to believe the point came across.


and killed who knows how many innocent people to slightly delay anyone following and to instill fear into others.
2. Re-read the page again, that specific gate was on lockdown, the only people there were security guards and Torrin's men, all of them armed and willing to go back through the portal to get Ardon. hardly innocent. And since the gate was on lockdown, there would likely be no civillians nearby, not close enough for the bomb to do serious damage to at least.

3. You know that "Fzzt" that happened in the second last panel? My guess is that means the gate's sister gate on the feywild was destroyed, nobody will be using that gate for awhile, not until either a new one is built or the old one is repaired at least. And if that's even possible, it will likely take a long time, or Ardon wouldn't have bothered. He's ensuring exactly what Jeskin was planning didn't happen, you know the whole "Grab as many security guys as you can and get ready to march (back) through with us" thing? Yeah. That can't happen now, even IF those guys are/were alive.


It couldn't even be argued that he did it solely to delay pursuit because he could just as easily been placed on that side of the portal and didn't need to include the head.
I wouldn't be surprised of Ardon has a plan to destroy the portal on his end as well, to doubly ensure they can't get to him through the same gate. This way both gates are destroyed, possibly permanently, and any immediate threats are eliminated.

[Hamste]

The point may of come across but we all know how well something like Ardon just did would go down with the government. Even if the feywild government are complete ********s like they seem to be, there is no way they can just ignore that.

The gate was barred in the link I posted before but that didn't keep that random npc from being at the gate right next to that one(and there was another person there just a minute ago) or those two from the gate just two down from that one. Just because a gate is locked down doesn't mean the gate about 20 feet away is locked down as well and presumably that wasn't a small blast if he was sure it was going to destroy the gate (and even if it was, there would be shards of metal flying everywhere).

Unless there is some magical reason (There may be) one gate can't be worked on while the other is being worked on/found, blowing up the feywild one still wouldn't be needed as it will almost certainly take longer for them to get someone out to fix that material gate than it would take to repair the feywild gate (If they could be repaired, if they couldn't my point of blowing up the material instead of murdering random people comes up again).

[Anteros]

He blew up some oxygen tanks, not a nuke. I doubt any civilians were in the blast.

Not that Ardon would care if they were.

[Hamste]

He blew up some oxygen tanks, not a nuke. I doubt any civilians were in the blast.

Not that Ardon would care if they were.

If the explosion was big enough to seriously damage the gates with some wiggle room so it doesn't fail then it is probably strong enough to break that container it is in and spread shards of metal everywhere (Otherwise he would be risking the container funneling the blast away from the gate). Unless either Ardon or Manuel are masters at explosives I can't see how he could have reliably made an explosion big enough to nearly guarantee the gates being damaged but no one 20 feet away being hurt from shards of flying metal. Maybe the guards absorbed most of the chunks or the explosion was small enough that the chunks lost energy before hitting any civilians who may have been standing 20 feet away but it doesn't seem likely.

[Draconi Redfir]

Okay but consider; Ardon blows up Feywild gate. This gate was how they connected to the gate Ardon is standing beside. So, since that gate is broken, they are unable to check up on the gate Ardon is standing beside, and must fix the feywild gate.

then Ardon destroys the gate he is standing beside, and the Feywild has no way of knowing this happened unless they send someone through annother gate and have them make the likely quite long trip to and back from the material plane gate. So they sepnd lets say a month repairing the feywild gate and start it up, nothing. It won't work because it's sister gate was also destroyed. Now they need to take even MORE time sneaking gate tech past mortals on the material plane in order to fix the gate Ardon was standing next too. Ardon just won himself a long arse time to skip town and cover his tracks.

That is assuming the gates work anything like how i think they work, which they might not.

[Hamste]

That seems to be assuming the Feywild government sends no one to check up on the other side of the gate before seeing if that side works or not. Imagine you were an extremely rich individual tracking someone who you put a million gold bounty on (presumably higher now that Torrin has been killed, the feygate is destroyed and possibly for revealing secrets to mortals if any of the people that met him survived/were raised) and suddenly they destroy your one means to get bounty hunters to their area quickly. You are willing to pay an extremely high bounty getting them and presumably you have an intelligence that is absolutely ludicrously high (Ardon's intelligence isn't low and Torrin was an int based caster. It suggests who ever had them is extremely intelligent unless it doesn't work this way in their world). You don't just assume he leaves the gate undamaged, you send someone out to make the long trip to the portal and if it isn't needed then cool you just lost a small pittance compared to Ardon's bounty in wasting that person's (and their guard's) time and if it is needed then you saved time on a necessary repair.

[Anteros]

Why are you so caught up on the idea that there are civilians standing around, or another gate withing a 20 foot radius? We've seen nothing of the sort, and it's a comic so we would have if that was the author's intent. You're getting all bent out of shape about the murder of a bunch of people we have no reasonable reason to believe exist.

[Hamste]

Why are you so caught up on the idea that there are civilians standing around, or another gate withing a 20 foot radius? We've seen nothing of the sort, and it's a comic so we would have if that was the author's intent. You're getting all bent out of shape about the murder of a bunch of people we have no reasonable reason to believe exist.

I linked earlier showing the gate right next to this one. Here it is again. (http://willsaveworldforgold.com/?p=953) They seem to be about four Ell body lengths away from one gate to the other so even if she is five feet tall it would be with in 20 ft. Lets say theoretically there is no one there despite Ell randomly seeing two people when she walked by saying that is coincidence. Would he be in the right if there just happened to be no one other than the guards nearby?

[Anteros]

4 bodylengths is very generous. It looks like almost double that to me.

Also, this is the guy who murdered his "biggest fan" in cold blood for a pair of pants. Of course he's not in the right. You're right that I don't particularly have a problem with him killing guards who are perfectly willing to kill him and all his friends though.

[Draconi Redfir]

It's also plausable that the guards cleared out nearby civilians the moment they saw a locked-down gate opening up. I'd say "because it's probably the team sent to capture a dangerous criminal and they don't want civvies getting hurt", but the guards at the gate are clearly unaware of this spesific mission for one reason or annother.

[Panzer]

To quote Ardon, "I don't want to be one of the 1d4+1 *******s that get I-told-you-so'd into an early grave", seems the area of effect wasn't THAT big to warrant being overly concerned about random civilians.

Also, eladrin can use fey step :P

[Kantaki]

I'm not sure if the explosion hit any innocents, but I doubt doing so was Ardon's goal. Not that he would care for collateral damage.
But I think his intention was to delay and/or discourage the guys hunting him (and getting rid of his brother's party of course).

Considering they started hunting him because he called himself Lord of Owlbears I can't really blame him for his methods*.
Okay, there is whatever happened with the Lord of Drakes' daughter
(sounds ambigous to me, the poster only said he caused her death not that he killed her. It is possible she died because she associated with him. Or he failed to protect her or something like that. Maybe she was his fiance? What Jeskin said during the interrogation makes me think it's something like that)
and those guys that died because of his distraction when he ran away.
(That one kinda is his fault. Intentional or not his orders caused the owlbears to kill all those people. But again, he was already hunted because the bigwigs didn't like the title he chose for himself)

*Okay I can, but it is kinda understandable. Besides, he is chaotic evil and from a evil-ish society. He doesn't know better.:smalltongue:

[Emperor Time]

Been reading the Will Save World for Masks too and thought that was a good end for it first chapter.

[stsasser]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!! :smallfurious:

Again. :smallfrown:

[Kantaki]

I guess raise dead isn't powerful enough for this. Maybe they have to use one of the better, higher level versions.
Or the universe hates them and Barry was always a undead skull and can't be resurrected.

[Leewei]

I guess raise dead isn't powerful enough for this. Maybe they have to use one of the better, higher level versions.
Or the universe hates them and Barry was always a undead skull and can't be resurrected.

This webcomic is largely 4E ruleset-based. Raise Dead is a level 8 ritual, and can only work on relatively recent corpses of living creatures. The same ritual is used on Epic-level PCs, but with more costly reagents. It may be possible to re-create undead using a different ritual, but it's very unlikely a cleric of Pelor would know it, let alone be willing to cast it.

[Emperor Time]

I guess that backstory of his from the vote incentive is a great reason for causing Groffnar to retire from adventuring.

[Seerow]

Okay, so today's punchline was great. I don't know why but I'm still chuckling at it now, several minutes after finishing the strip.

[ImperatorV]

...you know, if I had to have picked a non-fey race that would get along with Ardon before this arc, "dwarf" would not have been it. But here we are.

Explains why the shopkeeper is able to handle Ardon so well though.

[Kantaki]

The contract makes me expect some kind of trickery that results in Ardon not getting paid.
Especially after the dwarf helped him doing the same to Odivallus.
Even better if he has to pay the dwarves for giving him the job.:smallamused:

[The Mormegil]

Does anybody know what orc this is?

[random11]

Does anybody know what orc this is?

Took me a while to remember, it was "Orcs, the musical (http://willsaveworldforgold.com/?p=222)"

[The Mormegil]

Aaaaah oooooh damn, poor guy.

[ImperatorV]

...I can't tell if the Nightmare Spirit genuinely wants to be Ardon's cohort or if it's just gaining his trust to betray him at a later date. Then again, they're an evil team, it's probably both.

[stsasser]

Is that LSN working it in a fanboi red dress out front? :smallbiggrin:

[Lizard Lord]

Yes Odie, you did indeed screw up. :smallsigh:

I was seriously wondering for the past few pages "They are gonna tell him she's human before they meet right?"

I expect this lack of foresight from Odivallus, but what the heck was Ell thinking?

[Anteros]

Repeat after me: Everyone in the party but Ardon is dumb.

[Draconi Redfir]

kiiinda jumping to conclusions there Ana :/

[stsasser]

Looks like to conclusions is not the only thing that Ana will be jumping...

[The Glyphstone]

Looks like to conclusions is not the only thing that Ana will be jumping...

I'm not getting that vibe. I think Ana assumed he was also just someone wearing an orc costume, and it's just hit her that there is an actual live orc in her dressing room.

[Draconi Redfir]

Can't say i beleive the same glyph, if you're talking about the "is this real fur you're wearing?" page at least. Looks more to me like she was aware he was an orc from the start, but her materialistic desires might just end up with her at least tolerating him a bit more then she has been thus far. maybe a relationship, probably not.

[stsasser]

I'm not getting that vibe. I think Ana assumed he was also just someone wearing an orc costume, and it's just hit her that there is an actual live orc in her dressing room.

I see two possibilities:

The fallen, embittered Ana can fascinate this young, naive and lonely chieftain and, doing whatever it takes, including wearing greyface to avoid scandalizing the Bloodf's tribe to become queen of that tribe. As a side benefit, she can acquire the means to wreak gory vengance on South Cross and Ardon's Army for her humiliations.

or

LSN, whose avatar was just seen outside the strip club, soliciting tricks in Ana's castoff dress, can take the high road. :smallbiggrin:

Bonus Wild Speculation: This being Nightmare's whispered plan, Ardon unmasks her before the outraged orc tribe, which then kills the Chieftain, earning the bounty for his assasination that Ardon will not have forgotten is the whole point of the quest.

[Anteros]

I'm not getting that vibe. I think Ana assumed he was also just someone wearing an orc costume, and it's just hit her that there is an actual live orc in her dressing room.

I'm getting a "fur is murder!" vibe off of her.

[Douglas]

I'm getting a "fur is murder!" vibe off of her.
I'm getting a "wait, are your clothes actually high class/expensive?" vibe. She assumed he was, like most orcs, crude and unrefined, and now she's reassessing that.

[Anteros]

Turns out I was wrong. First time for everything I guess.

[stsasser]

Who the heck is this guy who gets a dialog avatar??:smallconfused:

[Panzer]

It's a PC.

[Chives]

Hmmm... Could the Nightmare Spirit be sitting back at the orc camp giving out orders?

[SZbNAhL]

Hmmm... Could the Nightmare Spirit be sitting back at the orc camp giving out orders?

I thought only Ardon could see and hear the spirit, even when it's possessing Bobo.

[Chives]

I thought only Ardon could see and hear the spirit, even when it's possessing Bobo.

That would make sense, explain why no one's asked about Bobo turning Purple.

[Lizard Lord]

I know that's a necklace, but does anyone else have a hard time not seeing Anaviera as always having her mouth open?

[stsasser]

Very well done.

[Lizard Lord]

Is Odie going to quit after this? If I were Odie this would be the point where I quit the party.

[Emperor Time]

Is Odie going to quit after this? If I were Odie this would be the point where I quit the party.

I agree since it feels like Ardon has finally past the moral event horizon with no hope of ever turning back.

[Anteros]

I'm a bit torn. On the one hand, the methods are evil and it's hard to think of mass slaughter as anything but evil. On the other hand, they're a bloodthirsty invading army, and wiping them out is probably for the best.

[Lizard Lord]

But now he is also intentionally driving a genuinely good member of the tribe to attack just so that he can kill him for the reward.

[Anteros]

The guy who started a war in order to try getting a girlfriend? He's not exactly an innocent.

I'm not saying Ardon isn't evil though. What he's doing currently is definitely evil. I'm just torn on whether he's passed the moral event horizon or not.

[Lizard Lord]

The guy who started a war in order to try getting a girlfriend? He's not exactly an innocent.

I'm not saying Ardon isn't evil though. What he's doing currently is definitely evil. I'm just torn on whether he's passed the moral event horizon or not.

That's....not exactly how it went.


Mostly though its that Odie and Ell tried to make a peaceful solution and Ardon undermined that for his own self interest. Sure they knew that about Ardon, but now they should see what kind off path their adventuring careers will take as long as Ardon leads them.

Mind you I am sure Ell won't quit just because of her insane philosophy of unconditional loyalty for no real reason. But I would like to think Odie will at least try to quit before the narrative forces him back into the party.

[Anteros]

That's exactly what happened. Maybe he didn't intend to start a war, but he didn't stop it either. He certainly hasn't stopped his orcs from attacking travelers like we saw earlier either.


For your other point...sure. Odie and Ell should have abandoned Ardon a long time ago if we're being reasonable about it. It's actually getting a little frustrating to read. Every time it seems like Ardon is getting character development and the story might actually go somewhere, he does something like this and we're back at square one.

[dancrilis]

It's actually getting a little frustrating to read. Every time it seems like Ardon is getting character development and the story might actually go somewhere, he does something like this and we're back at square one.

I kindof like it - kindof reminds me of 8-Bit Theater except with the quote being: 'This whole goddamn adventure has been nothing but pointless build ups towards character development that never happens'.

At this point I think meaningful character change might actually annoy me (happy with minor elements i.e growing and learning to realise you were always right, or items that change someone only for them to than change back).

[stsasser]

Is Odie going to quit after this? If I were Odie this would be the point where I quit the party.

Did Odie have any moral qualms about exterminating an entire goblin tribe or slaughtering all the skeletons at the acid party? Originally, Odie expected they would be fighting the entire orc army and, while questioning the feasibility of it, was good to go. It was only en route that he learned it was an assassination thwart job.

[random11]

Think of a table with a group of people playing D&D.
All the group takes the game seriously (in healthy levels), but one of the players is annoying and while the others try to role play, he treats it only as a game with points and statistics, knowing that it's unlikely the party will split regardless of what he does, and behaves like he is the most important thing in the world since in a way, player characters ARE the most important thing in the world that was created for them.

In the end, it's not moral issues that will cause other players (characters) to throw him out of the party, it will be the way he acts against the other characters in the group as well as the players behind them.


So bottom line, Ode and El should have kicked him out long ago, less because of his morals and more because he was never a team player, and certainly not a leader.
For me, a long time ago it felt like the only reason they are still adventuring together is because the player behind ardon brought pizza to the session and the other players feel bad kicking him out after that.

[LoneStarNorth]

the only reason they are still adventuring together is because the player behind ardon brought pizza to the session and the other players feel bad kicking him out after that.

This is a valid strategy.

[Anteros]

I kindof like it - kindof reminds me of 8-Bit Theater except with the quote being: 'This whole goddamn adventure has been nothing but pointless build ups towards character development that never happens'.

At this point I think meaningful character change might actually annoy me (happy with minor elements i.e growing and learning to realise you were always right, or items that change someone only for them to than change back).

Well, I think with 8-Bit Theater it was more palatable because the entire universe existed to hurt Black Mage. Sure, he was a horrible person, but he was constantly getting his karmic retribution. Plus, the characters in 8-Bit were naturally more shallow so you don't really expect them to grow.

The frustrating thing with Ardon is that he actually does show occasional signs of (slight) growth, but just throws it away anyway.

Just my .02. I obviously still enjoy the story enough to read it every day.

[ImperatorV]

...And there is the moral event horizon cross people were talking about.

[Chives]

That's exactly what happened. Maybe he didn't intend to start a war, but he didn't stop it either. He certainly hasn't stopped his orcs from attacking travelers like we saw earlier either.


For your other point...sure. Odie and Ell should have abandoned Ardon a long time ago if we're being reasonable about it. It's actually getting a little frustrating to read. Every time it seems like Ardon is getting character development and the story might actually go somewhere, he does something like this and we're back at square one.

I'm not sure Ardon isn't getting character development, everyone seems to be growing and learning and coming into their own as adventurers. This isn't a story about people becoming better, nicer, kinder. This is a story about an absolute monster who kills things for fun and the people pulled along with him. We're watching Ardon's rise to power in a world that, literally, cannot stop him. I fully expect the party to fight (and possibly kill) the Sons of Solemnity later on and for Odie and Ell to justify it to themselves afterwards. The more they adventure the more horrible they get.

[Anteros]

Well, my point was that he does get flashes of morality. Like when he saved Peanut, or baby El. It's almost like reading about two entirely different people at times.

But yeah, this isn't a good look for him right now. It's right up there with the time he murdered the halfling.

[Chives]

Well, my point was that he does get flashes of morality. Like when he saved Peanut, or baby El. It's almost like reading about two entirely different people at times.

But yeah, this isn't a good look for him right now. It's right up there with the time he murdered the halfling.

Ah, fair enough. I was seeing the same thing in the opposite direction. Should be interesting to see how this ends up.

[dancrilis]

It is worth nothing for those that want moral growth from him that he is soulless (to memory) for some reason, and that the Nightmare Spirit may be able to subtly influence his actions (now that he has started listening to it).
Will have to see how this plays out.

[Kantaki]

My favourite part is Ardon’s confusion that someone might blame himself for something instead of everyone else.

The reaction... unfortunately fits his established behaviour very well. Still incredible evil that whole stunt.
Ardon wanted a slaughter so he makes sure he gets one.

[Ibrinar]

There isn't really any reason for his party to not be there and watching, so I assume they just saw and heard this. Morality aside it should be pretty clear he used a power on the guy.

[Draconi Redfir]

H'uh, this IS weird. Doesn't quite seem like Ardon to actively go out of his way just to kill something that doesn't need to be killed...

Or maybe that's exactly what he'd do... i am kind of tired RN so idk

[Douglas]

H'uh, this IS weird. Doesn't quite seem like Ardon to actively go out of his way just to kill something that doesn't need to be killed...

Or maybe that's exactly what he'd do... i am kind of tired RN so idk
I think the contract specified that their job was to kill Hragnash, so part of Ardon's motivation is to remove any room for the dwarves to refuse payment on the grounds that he didn't actually do the contracted job. Considering their reaction to him sneaking in an "I get Odie's share" clause, I think this is a very valid concern.

A Good character would argue that the spirit of the contract - helping eliminate the orc threat - has been fulfilled and, whether that argument worked or not, let Hragnash go. Ardon is an evil bastard and just doesn't care, so he's going the sure route of fulfilling the letter of the contract too.

[stsasser]

I think the contract specified that their job was to kill Hragnash, so part of Ardon's motivation is to remove any room for the dwarves to refuse payment on the grounds that he didn't actually do the contracted job. Considering their reaction to him sneaking in an "I get Odie's share" clause, I think this is a very valid concern.

A Good character would argue that the spirit of the contract - helping eliminate the orc threat - has been fulfilled and, whether that argument worked or not, let Hragnash go. Ardon is an evil bastard and just doesn't care, so he's going the sure route of fulfilling the letter of the contract too.

After all, it is not 'Will Save World for Good'. :smallbiggrin:

[Emperor Time]

That true but Ardon still mess up in killing the regular orc tribe members in even his own way of thinking. Since I don't know if he even get xp for poising their alcohol and if he doesn't then it surprising since that was a lot of xp to lose. Since a little from each one adds up when there that many of them and might have even cost him a level in fact and pretty sure he loves xp as much as he loves gold which is unlike him.

[stsasser]

That true but Ardon still mess up in killing the regular orc tribe members in even his own way of thinking. Since I don't know if he even get xp for poising their alcohol and if he doesn't then it surprising since that was a lot of xp to lose. Since a little from each one adds up when there that many of them and might have even cost him a level in fact and pretty sure he loves xp as much as he loves gold which is unlike him.

Would Bobo being present at the deaths affect Ardon's xp harvest?

[Emperor Time]

I'm not sure because I mostly learn the rules for D&D from several webcomics.

[stsasser]

I'm not sure because I mostly learn the rules for D&D from several webcomics.

Yeah, I have the same deficiency in my education. :smallredface:

[Douglas]

If poisoning them doesn't count for xp, then any other way likely to actually work against that many probably wouldn't count either. The only way that absolutely definitely would get Ardon xp would be killing them all in combat, and Ardon's not so powerful he can fight an army and win. XP you can't succeed in claiming isn't xp at all, so going the poison route isn't losing him anything. He might even get plot/story xp from it, which while still less than the xp value of combat killing an entire tribe of orcs is a lot better than dying from picking a fight where you're ridiculously overmatched.

[stsasser]

If poisoning them doesn't count for xp, then any other way likely to actually work against that many probably wouldn't count either. The only way that absolutely definitely would get Ardon xp would be killing them all in combat, and Ardon's not so powerful he can fight an army and win. XP you can't succeed in claiming isn't xp at all, so going the poison route isn't losing him anything. He might even get plot/story xp from it, which while still less than the xp value of combat killing an entire tribe of orcs is a lot better than dying from picking a fight where you're ridiculously overmatched.

That is what I am reading. It seems tough on assassins, although there are some games that vary from it, and with a proximity/immediacy requirement. I expect that Ardon will say he multi-classed as an Assassin and that Bobo's presence will qualify him for xp.

If it works, it will infuriate his party.
If it doesn't work, it will infuriate him.
Either way, we will be entertained.

[Emperor Time]

That true that no matter what, I am still very entertained by this webcomic.

[Chives]

Oh immensely. It's to the Author's credit that we've seen thousands of comics in this world and have no idea what the long-term effects of this action will be. So rare to find something this unpredictable.

[Lizard Lord]

So if Ardon really did poison the booze before meeting Hragnash, that means he wiped them out just to spite Groffnar.

Anyways I thought Ardon was actually going to mention how Odie doesn't get paid since he signed over his payment to Ardon.

[ImperatorV]

...Either Ardon is never going to one-up Groffnar, or when he does his vengeance will be horrific.

[Zaydos]

I hope Ardon never one ups Groffnar. Ardon needs to get pie on his face sometimes.

[Anteros]

...Either Ardon is never going to one-up Groffnar, or when he does his vengeance will be horrific.

Well we do know that the Guardian warned him about something Ardon does in the future. I like seeing Ardon lose too though.

[Kantaki]

I hope Ardon never one ups Groffnar. Ardon needs to get pie on his face sometimes.

If by „pie” you mean „jar filled with acid and acid breathing piranhas*” I agree. Throwing a real one would be a waste of pie.

*half-dragon-piranhas.

[Lizard Lord]

This isn't real comeuppance for what Ardon did though. All that happened is that he gets disappointed that this particular part of his plan didn't work. So what?

[Hamste]

I think the contract specified that their job was to kill Hragnash, so part of Ardon's motivation is to remove any room for the dwarves to refuse payment on the grounds that he didn't actually do the contracted job. Considering their reaction to him sneaking in an "I get Odie's share" clause, I think this is a very valid concern.

A Good character would argue that the spirit of the contract - helping eliminate the orc threat - has been fulfilled and, whether that argument worked or not, let Hragnash go. Ardon is an evil bastard and just doesn't care, so he's going the sure route of fulfilling the letter of the contract too.

I looked it up, unless the dwarves were lying and they did try to put a trick in the contract, it was for death or capture. Here is the link. (http://willsaveworldforgold.com/?p=1981)

[ImperatorV]

Justice? No.

Comeuppance? Yes.

[Anteros]

Justice? No.

Comeuppance? Yes.

Can you read it? The site isn't working for me.

[LoneStarNorth]

Can you read it? The site isn't working for me.

I'm working on it, but it might be an overnight problem.

EDIT: Fixed.

[stsasser]

First Barry and now this?!? :smalleek:

[Lizard Lord]

First Barry and now this?!? :smalleek:

...Bobo is a summon. Ardon can and likely will re-summon him. Especially given that Bobo is the only being that listens to Ardon 100% of the time.

Edit: Unless you were being sarcastic, since my sense of sarcasm has temporarily abandoned me. :smallsigh:

[stsasser]

...Bobo is a summon. Ardon can and likely will re-summon him. Especially given that Bobo is the only being that listens to Ardon 100% of the time.

Edit: Unless you were being sarcastic, since my sense of sarcasm has temporarily abandoned me. :smallsigh:

No, I just don't know if it is possible for Ardon to abandon Bobo permanently, intentionally or inadvertently.
It would be good if Ardon, if he has an opening, to grab the Guardian as a fill-in.

[Emperor Time]

Ardon wouldn't abandoned Bobo for good since he is pretty much his only friend that would never disobey or betray him.

[Lizard Lord]

Ardon wouldn't abandoned Bobo for good since he is pretty much his only friend that would never disobey or betray him.

Exactly. I'm not sure if Ardon actually values friendship or if he just has a twisted definition of the term, but he definitely values obedience (as long as the obedience is towards him of course) which Bobo has in spades.

[Lizard Lord]

So now are they going to quit the party?

Yes I know any such decision will wind up with them being forced to work with Ardon again and the party will be reformed, but I still want them to do it just so they can say they tried to quit Ardon.

[stsasser]

So now are they going to quit the party?

Yes I know any such decision will wind up with them being forced to work with Ardon again and the party will be reformed, but I still want them to do it just so they can say they tried to quit Ardon.

It would be interesting character growth to see them come to terms with the reality that they just fulfilled a contract that they freely signed to be assassins. Their realizing that Ardon had to trick them into fulfilling their contracts, keeping their word, would be a nice bonus, .

[Kantaki]

Wow, Ardon really just admitted that he manipulated the orc chief into attacking.
Maybe will get a arc or so with (some of) his team mates leaving until they learn the valuable lesson that despite being a murderous jerk who cares nothing about them Ardon is still their friend. And you don't just leave friends over something minor like a horrifying act of Evil.

Honestly, I still expect this to be the story of an evil overlord’s rise to power with Ardon as the overlord and the others as his minions. Those that survive that long at least.

[Anteros]

Honestly Ardon's not even wrong here. His methods are inexcusable, but the logic is sound. Hraggy was a dead man walking, and he deserved it the moment he ordered the first raiding party.

Just because the evil overlord is civil to you doesn't mean he isn't still accountable for starting a war or raiding innocent people. He was never going to walk away from this.

[Lizard Lord]

With that said I'm still banking on them trying to quit the party, for that last line if nothing else. (I know it says its the end of the story arc, but these things usually have epilogues. )

[random11]

Honestly Ardon's not even wrong here. His methods are inexcusable, but the logic is sound. Hraggy was a dead man walking, and he deserved it the moment he ordered the first raiding party.

Just because the evil overlord is civil to you doesn't mean he isn't still accountable for starting a war or raiding innocent people. He was never going to walk away from this.

Even if you ignore the moral implications of killing the orcs in general plus the moral issue of murder without trial versus execution, at the very least there is the point that his actions caused the death of a few dwarven guards, who were NOT about to die anyway.

They should just leave.
Later, they might encounter each other again since it's possible for two adventurers to take the same quest (even likely in the world of D&D), but they should leave, and under no circumstances allow Ardon to lead.
At BEST, they should treat him as a battle advisor.

[Kantaki]

Honestly Ardon's not even wrong here. His methods are inexcusable, but the logic is sound. Hraggy was a dead man walking, and he deserved it the moment he ordered the first raiding party.

Just because the evil overlord is civil to you doesn't mean he isn't still accountable for starting a war or raiding innocent people. He was never going to walk away from this.

That he isn't wrong doesn't make him right.
I mean what kind of justification is „he would have died anyway”? Ardon could say that anytime he kills or arranges the death of someone and he wouldn't be wrong.
That our orc chief with the unpronounceable name would have been executed anyway is no justification for Ardon mind raping him into going on a murderous rampage to force his team mates to kill him.

[ImperatorV]

I imagine LSN will enjoy reading this debate.

In update news, Ell continues to have a fascinating philosophy that might end up making her into a minion of evil and forcing her to fight her parents. And Odie goes along with it out of peer pressure. And any serious moral discussion is interrupted in a hilarious manner.

[Anteros]

I imagine LSN will enjoy reading this debate.

In update news, Ell continues to have a fascinating philosophy that might end up making her into a minion of evil and forcing her to fight her parents. And Odie goes along with it out of peer pressure. And any serious moral discussion is interrupted in a hilarious manner.

There's not really any debate. I already said Ardon's actions were inexcusable. People just ignored that for some reason.

[Lizard Lord]

I imagine LSN will enjoy reading this debate.

In update news, Ell continues to have a fascinating philosophy that might end up making her into a minion of evil and forcing her to fight her parents. And Odie goes along with it out of peer pressure. And any serious moral discussion is interrupted in a hilarious manner.

Personally I'm hoping this ends with Odie applying for a job at the Boots and Buttocks in an attempt to retire from adventuring, but I'm an optimist.

[stsasser]

Personally I'm hoping this ends with Odie applying for a job at the Boots and Buttocks in an attempt to retire from adventuring, but I'm an optimist.

It seems unlikely, since they are still concentrating on Ardon's actions, rather than reassessing their own involvement in mercenary killing. Odie and Ell are treating Ardon' suggestion, "If you've decided you don't like killing things for money, you might want to get into a different line of work," as rhetoric rather than solid advice.

[Ibrinar]

I don't think they know Ardon used mind powers to force the orc, they think he made him by killing his whole Orc army.

[Draconi Redfir]

Sorry Ell, but i think you might be seeing what you want to see rather then what is actually there:smallfrown:

[Lizard Lord]

Well I kinda see Ardon as getting better during the Dire story arc, but he definitely wasn't trying to do so.

[Anteros]

Well, El isn't wrong that Ardon needs their help. I do question whether he's worth saving at all by this point though. Of course she isn't aware of most of the terrible things he's done, so she can't really be blamed for not seeing it.

[random11]

Well, El isn't wrong that Ardon needs their help. I do question whether he's worth saving at all by this point though. Of course she isn't aware of most of the terrible things he's done, so she can't really be blamed for not seeing it.

Even if he is worth saving, you do not help an alcoholic with a solution like "this time WE will choose which pub to go to!"

[Seerow]

Well, El isn't wrong that Ardon needs their help. I do question whether he's worth saving at all by this point though. Of course she isn't aware of most of the terrible things he's done, so she can't really be blamed for not seeing it.

More to the point, she is a Paladin, and a Paladin whose thing specifically is loyalty to her friends (I think LSN spelled this out during the whole magic sword story arc). Her continuing to back up Ardon (or any of the others) whatever he does is kind of her thing. Actively choosing to walk away from any member of her adopted family would be a pretty huge deal for her, and it's going to take something a lot more personal than mindraping an Orc to change her mind on that.

[Lizard Lord]

More to the point, she is a Paladin, and a Paladin whose thing specifically is loyalty to her friends (I think LSN spelled this out during the whole magic sword story arc). Her continuing to back up Ardon (or any of the others) whatever he does is kind of her thing. Actively choosing to walk away from any member of her adopted family would be a pretty huge deal for her, and it's going to take something a lot more personal than mindraping an Orc to change her mind on that.

Like him being a part the death of her aunt; thus causing Ell to be separated from her parents?

Sure Ardon was almost half-way decent (or, should I say, not completely evil) there given that he sent Ell to the orphanage rather than kill baby Ell like he was told to, but he still played a part in the biggest tragedy in Ell's life.

[ImperatorV]

Like him being a part the death of her aunt; thus causing Ell to be separated from her parents?

Sure Ardon was almost half-way decent (or, should I say, not completely evil) there given that he sent Ell to the orphanage rather than kill baby Ell like he was told to, but he still played a part in the biggest tragedy in Ell's life.

I don't believe there's any proof of that event occurring and Ardon probably forgot it happened. I don't see how Ell would find out about it.

[Anteros]

I forget. Was Ardon driving at the time or just riding along? I feel like he was driving.

[Lizard Lord]

I don't believe there's any proof of that event occurring and Ardon probably forgot it happened. I don't see how Ell would find out about it.

Is scrying magic not a thing in fourth addition?

[Douglas]

Is scrying magic not a thing in fourth addition?
Scrying, in all editions as far as I know, views the present. The event in question is in the past.

[ImperatorV]

3.5 had the Hindsight spell, which could look into the past in a specific area... But that was a 9th level spell and 4th edition did away with a lot of the non-combat magic. A quick google finds no mention of a 4th edition version of that spell.

[stsasser]

Welp, no more Mr. Nice Ardon. :smalleek:

Sidenote: Is there any worse class choice than 'sewer druid'?

[LoneStarNorth]

Is there any worse class choice than 'sewer druid'?

Absolutely. (http://willsaveworldforgold.com/?p=395)

[Lizard Lord]

Absolutely. (http://willsaveworldforgold.com/?p=395)

Really? Because I think I would have a lot of fun playing a Funk Pact Warlock. Mind you I would also go all out with it and have him talk like a stereotypical person from the 1970's as well.

[The Glyphstone]

In the middle of that re-read, I just noticed that the Crooked Peak Orc Tribe quest they just finished was actually foreshadowed, but Ardon initially turned it down.

http://willsaveworldforgold.com/?p=414

[SZbNAhL]

In the middle of that re-read, I just noticed that the Crooked Peak Orc Tribe quest they just finished was actually foreshadowed, but Ardon initially turned it down.

http://willsaveworldforgold.com/?p=414

Huh, well played LSN, well played. It also forshadows those giant (http://willsaveworldforgold.com/?p=1252) ants (http://willsaveworldforgold.com/?p=1631).

[stsasser]

Looks like somebody needs a share of a huge reward to pay for finally raising her party from the dead.
I will be disappointed if this does not lead to Ell's 'black and white quest' being the hunting down
of the monstrous murderer of prisoners in South Crossings' dungeon.

[Chives]

If they do though... Ardon would probably frame Chandea. She's capable of killing them, wields a bow, and IRRC he knows she follows him.

[Lizard Lord]

If they do though... Ardon would probably frame Chandea. She's capable of killing them, wields a bow, and IRRC he knows she follows him.

No he doesn't. Ardon can never figure out who the masked archer is. Likely because Ardon doesn't remember her.

[SZbNAhL]

Also, they would have been killed by crossbow bolts, not longbow arrows. I know the Guard aren't exactly geniuses but they've probably had enough weapons training to know the difference.

[Hamste]

If they do though... Ardon would probably frame Chandea. She's capable of killing them, wields a bow, and IRRC he knows she follows him.

I doubt he would frame her, the orc warchief probably would have been convicted and those guys were convicted as well. He is going to try to murder her (going off the let no enemy survive philosophy) not rely on a long court process where even if there is the death penalty she has a chance to escape.


Curious why he didn't just stab the guard. Was he unsure that he could kill the guard before they call reinforcements? That is a very pricey thing to use to murder a single person.

[ImperatorV]

...I wish we had a second thread so we could name it "PNUT IZ BEST NUT."

[Hamste]

I think I know who has what color if people care. Pink is Chandea as she set was deciding where to go, dark green is Ellie as she is commenting on which towns they can't go to, orange is Peanut as Pnut iz best nut, Ardon is dark blue as he is drawing a picture of burning Salad, dark red is 45 as it is the one non-hand written note and light blue is Odvillous.

[Kantaki]

The mummy created a egglaying wool-milk sow*?
Awesome!:smallbiggrin:

It just has to work on the way it assembles it's chimeras.

And Peanut’s reaction is typical adventurer.
No appreciation for a perfectly useful creation.
Every idiot** can create a horrying combat chimera to terrorize the countryside, but someone making one that is actually useful? That is rare.

*Well, almost. Might need a bit more pig (and possibly sheep) in it to qualify.

**With magic. Every idiot with magic. And the right spell obviously.

[Lizard Lord]

So, even though Paladins can be of any alignment in 4th edition and WSG takes place in a world that runs on 4th edition rules, people still assume Paladins are lawful good? Are there no infamous evil paladins? If people really do assume paladins are good I would think it wouldn't take much for an evil one to get his name spread around. I'm not saying Ell is evil, obviously, but paladins have no rules against hanging out with evil people in 4th edition correct?

[random11]

I think Chandea is missing the point.

Ell might not fail as a paladin, but she needs to understand that being a friend and agreeing with everything the "friend" does is not the same thing.

[Anteros]

I think Chandea is missing the point.

Ell might not fail as a paladin, but she needs to understand that being a friend and agreeing with everything the "friend" does is not the same thing.

If your friend is doing things like serial murder and you stick with them that's basically implicit approval of their actions.

[Leewei]

The mummy created a egglaying wool-milk sow*?
Awesome!:smallbiggrin:

It just has to work on the way it assembles it's chimeras.
<snip>

From here on, I will be thinking of that farm monstrosity as a cow-mera.