Cool grapplers

[PoeticDwarf]

In 5e, grappling is a very fun way to be useful but without doing damage. So my question is, how can you make cool grapplers with strange combinations, a wizard/warlock grappler for example.

So not a rogue 1/barbarian 1 combination but decent-good working grapplers with extraordinary classes and maybe nice spells.

[Malifice]

how can you make cool grapplers.

Yeti.

Fulfill both criterion.

[Gwendol]

Bards make surprisingly good grapplers.

[Malifice]

Barbarian 2 plus fighter 3 plus Rogue 1 plus OHM Monk x - V human. Grappler and tavern brawler feat.

Walk up to them. punch in head repeatedly using BM manouvers to trip and disarm, OHM stuff to scene with more and stunning fist to stun, while gaining bonus action grapple. Use bonus action to grapple. Use action surge to pin.

You should have a disarmed, stunned, prone, restrained and frightened enemy in no time.

If your DM doesn't let you gag any spellcasters in this situation, he's a ****.

[PoeticDwarf]

Barbarian 2 plus fighter 3 plus Rogue 1 plus OHM Monk x - V human. Grappler and tavern brawler feat.

Walk up to them. punch in head repeatedly using BM manouvers to trip and disarm, OHM stuff to scene with more and stunning fist to stun, while gaining bonus action grapple. Use bonus action to grapple. Use action surge to pin.

You should have a disarmed, stunned, prone, restrained and frightened enemy in no time.

If your DM doesn't let you gag any spellcasters in this situation, he's a ****.

I said, please no barbarian/rogue builds, they are way too basic.

[Naanomi]

As discussed above, I like battlemaster/bards with tavern brawler... Punch/trip/grapple in one sweeping motion 'signature move' while hamming it up WWE style 'oh yeah!'

[Malifice]

I said, please no barbarian/rogue builds, they are way too basic.

Monk/bard/ fighter then. Just as good.

[JellyPooga]

I said, please no barbarian/rogue builds, they are way too basic.

With Grapple being trigged on Athletics, anything that doesn't have Expertise in Athletics is going to be a strictly worse Grappler; that means Rogue or Bard. Rogue gets earliest access to this, so if it's a grapple build, Rogue 1 is the easiest.

Barbarian offers Advantage on Strength checks, so is an obvious choice for MC off of those. If whatever other method of generating that Advantage means jumping through more hoops than "1 level of Barbarian", then it's probably worse.

Whatever else other classes offer, Rogue 1/Barbarian 1 is very likely to improve it as they offer boons to grappling that other classes either can't get or offer only with greater investment.


Having said that, Warlock offers Hex for Disadvantage on Strength checks. Given that you'll typically only be grappling a single target, this is a viable grappling spell that will stack with both Rogue and Barbarian.

A Bard, as mentioned by Gwendol, can have access to Hex as well as Expertise, but won't get it online as quickly as a Rogue 1/Warlock 1 (Bard will be level 6 minimum). Bardic Inspiration from an Ally can also help a Grappler, but you can't use it on yourself. Cutting Words, on the other hand, can be used against the opponent you're trying to grapple (on your turn or otherwise).

Any source of the Frightened or Poisoned condition will impose Disadvantage as well. Some examples and level you get it;
-Ray of Sickness, lvl.1 Sor/Wiz spell (level 1)
- Menacing Attack, Battlemaster Maneuver (level 3)
- Fey Presence, Warlock Archfey Patron feature (level 1)

Enlarge/Reduce and Enhance Ability both grant Advantage on Strength checks. The former is only available to Sorcerers and Wizards, the latter to Bards, Clerics, Druids and Sorcerers (not Wizards, interestingly). As 2nd level spells, they won't come online until at least level 3, but will give you longer and (potentially) more reliable access to that Advantage than Barbarian Rage, if long-duration fights are an issue. These are probably better cast by a non-combatant on you (the grappler) than by yourself, though; you wouldn't want to fluff a Concentration check and lose it.

Druids (especially Moon Druids) have easy and reliable access to larger sizes for grappling larger targets. Certain forms (Constrictor Snake, Giant Octopus) give you special grapple options, but don't (as far as I can tell) stack well with normal grappling techniques.

The biggest problem with non-Rogue/Barbarian grapplers is that by the time they get their grappling online, they're probably better off using a different tactic. A Wizard, for example, could cast Enlarge Person to be a better grappler, or he could cast Hold Person using that 2nd level spell slot and straight up Paralyze the guy they wanted to grapple; a far better condition than Grappled.

[Gwendol]

Hold person allows saves, grapples don't.
Goliaths should be considered the race when designing a grappler: their increased carrying capacity (the watered-down powerful build trait of 3e) lends itself to grappling application. It scales with size, so that the enlarged Goliath finds himself having the carrying capacity of a Huge creature.

[JellyPooga]

Hold person allows saves, grapples don't.

Enlarge Person or Enhance Ability allows you to go grapple multiple targets as well, but I'd still rather use Hold Person or Web than try to shoehorn a grapple-build out of Sorcerer or Wizard.

Although a Grapple doesn't require a Saving Throw, technically, it still requires/allows the target to make an Athletics or Acrobatics check every turn, which is functionally similar.

Grappled is a relatively poor condition. Imposing it as an "added extra" to the main focus of your build, like you can with Rogue/Barbarian, is great, but if you're having to avoid superior options, like Hold Person, Web or whatever to be a better grappler, you're wasting potential.

[Gwendol]

Enlarge Person or Enhance Ability allows you to go grapple multiple targets as well, but I'd still rather use Hold Person or Web than try to shoehorn a grapple-build out of Sorcerer or Wizard.

Although a Grapple doesn't require a Saving Throw, technically, it still requires/allows the target to make an Athletics or Acrobatics check every turn, which is functionally similar.

Grappled is a relatively poor condition. Imposing it as an "added extra" to the main focus of your build, like you can with Rogue/Barbarian, is great, but if you're having to avoid superior options, like Hold Person, Web or whatever to be a better grappler, you're wasting potential.

Have you looked at how many monsters are proficient in athletics? If you build a grappler, you will nearly always win the contest. Also, if you build a grappler you will likely win the follow-up contest which should be shoving them prone. They can't stand (movement set to "0") unless they escape the grapple, and they have disadvantage on all melee attacks, while you and all allies have advantage.

There are a number of caveats to consider when using grappling, but when it works, it will not fail.

[JellyPooga]

Have you looked at how many monsters are proficient in athletics?

How about how many have Proficiency in Wisdom or Dexterity checks?


If you build a grappler, you will nearly always win the contest. [snip] and they have disadvantage on all melee attacks, while you and all allies have advantage.

Prone isn't always beneficial. It's a better condition than Grappled, but it's no Paralyzed or even Restrained. A Grappled and Prone opponent can still use abilities that don't require an attack roll without penalty, such as spells that require a Saving Throw or buffs (whether for himself or his allies).


There are a number of caveats to consider when using grappling, but when it works, it will not fail.

The same can be said for Hold Person or Stunning Strike. Grappled has a high frequency of success, sure, but the result is not that impressive. If you've got a choice between "slightly more risky, but always useful" and "situationally useful, but works most of the time", I'd choose the former if they were mutually exclusive.

[Gwendol]

I got the impression boosting grapple modifiers was easier than save DC's, but I could be wrong.

[JellyPooga]

I got the impression boosting grapple modifiers was easier than save DC's, but I could be wrong.

There's nothing, bar improving your casting stat, that I'm aware of that will boost your Spell Save DC. As you say, there's plenty to boost grapples, but the point is that grappling is not that effective a tactic compared to stun or paralysis, even if the odds of it being successful are better.

For a character like the Rogue/Barbarian, the single choice of putting Expertise into Athletics makes you the best grappler in the game. Everything else you get as part of those classes is on top of that.

For a Sorcerer looking to do some grappling, he's having to give up a precious Spell Known slot for Enlarge/Reduce and/or Enhance Ability as well as using some of his limited resource of Spells/day in order to be worse at grappling than a Rogue, when he could be using those same slots (both known and per day) for something that, whilst it might not come off every time like the grapple, produces a much more dramatic effect.

[Gwendol]

Absolutely agree. Either you build for grapples or stay out of it unless you can take a couple of hits.

[Vogonjeltz]

but the point is that grappling is not that effective a tactic compared to stun or paralysis, even if the odds of it being successful are better.

This is a question of resources required. Grappling costs no long-term resources, it's a substitution of the infinitely renewable melee attack, the efficacy of which is greatest for those with multiple attacks (i.e. Fighter, Barbarian, Ranger, Paladin, Bard, Monk).

The Monk can stun...but it costs a resource (ki), someone can probably paralyze, but it also probably costs a spell slot which is a massive expenditure in comparison to even the ki cost.

So yeah, stun/paralysis are more effective than grapple, but they have less efficiency because the costs are so much higher. Grapple's cheap and beneficial against most types of targets.

[JellyPooga]

Grapple's cheap and beneficial against most types of targets.

This is rather my point; when it's cheap and repeatable it's great. If it's costing you resources to grapple on the other hand (such as if you require a spell to grapple effectively), then you've really got to question the potency and whether it's worth bothering with.

[Jamesps]

Wild mage

1)Grab them with your action, using tides of chaos to gain advantage on your athletics check.

2) Bonus action cast expeditious retreat while mooning your DM. Empirically this seems to trigger wild surges, which will replenish your tides of chaos.

3)When they try to get away because weird and traumatizing things are happening to them use your newly replenished tides of chaos as well as luck bending to ensure they will never escape you.

Continue until you both explode.