High damage monk - how?

[Waazraath]

Monks aren't the typical high damage dealing bruisers. At low levels, their damage is fine, having in general more attacks then most other classes due to martial arts / flurry; at 5th level, 4 attacks (2 times 1d8 and 2 times 1d6, + stat modifier) is very nice, but at level 20 4 times 1d10 + 5 is hardly impressive. The monk isn't meant to be a tank or heavy hitter, but has other stuff going for it: mobility, debuff, utility, strong defensive abilities...

But what if you wanted to build a monk that does high damage, what would you do? Stuff I'm considering:
- without variant rules (feats / multiclass): four elements monk, focussing on fangs of the fire snake, for extra d10's on every attack that's a hit; class probably half-orc, since it's the only one with a racial ability that increases damage (without being a stat modifier); for at the end of the build 4x 2d10 + 5, and 3d10 extra on a crit. Fireball as situational high damage option. Downside: hardly or no ki for stunning and other abilities.

- with variant rules: half-orc champion fighter 3 / shadow monk 17, for 5 attacks (one extra for opportunist, though only at the very end), crit on 19/20, with 2d10 extra on a crit, action surge, and fighting style (dueling) for a +2 on 3 of the 5 attacks.

But there are plenty of other options of course, with barbarian (rage), fighter battle master for superiority dice, ranger for fighing style & hunter's mark, feats like martial adept... and much more.

What would you do?

[djreynolds]

Paladin for smiting. MAD, yes but cool and great saves at .....20. Haste.

[BladeWing81]

- without variant rules (feats / multiclass): four elements monk, focussing on fangs of the fire snake, for extra d10's on every attack that's a hit; class probably half-orc, since it's the only one with a racial ability that increases damage (without being a stat modifier); for at the end of the build 4x 2d10 + 5, and 3d10 extra on a crit. Fireball as situational high damage option. Downside: hardly or no ki for stunning and other abilities.


I'm guessing the 3d10 extra is becuase the crit adds the punch, the fire damage and the orc extra dice right? it sounds good for the end levels when you have at least 17 ki points. the monk is mainly a support class which means it doesn't lend itselft to be a high damage dealer, their abilities are useful to be an secondary-thank/rogue and the anti-mage character. on another thread I discovered that the best way to get high damage for a monk is with a belt of giant strength, getting the storm giant grants 29 strength which translates to +9 hit/damage, at lvl 17 that's +15 hit/+9 damage.

[PoeticDwarf]

As you said, a low level monk deals great damage. So you can go 11 fighter/9 monk, or levels in rogue for sneakattack, maybe also 11 rogue/9 monk.
A strength based monk with levels in barbarian could be good for strong damage, but strength based monks aren't good options.

[Malifice]

It's hard but not really needed.

I prefer battle master to champion for 3 levels personally.

[Mechaviking]

Someone did a shadow monk/warlock thing half a year ago or more, maybie some research into that would bring out something, AC would be slightly lower but versatility would go up a lot, and curse for the extra solid damage :D.

[AvatarVecna]

Dips into Fighter and/or Rogue on a Monk build can work nicely.

[Malifice]

Magic (monk) weapons + Dueling style + superiority dice.

Anyone looking to a Monk for good DPR is in for a bit of disappointment.

They don't get high DPR; the strength lies in single high priority precision target shut down, and the mobility required to deliver that shut down where and when required.

[Ciraq]

If you are looking for solid damage output, I would suggest looking at another class. 4E monks may have been better at damage, but 5E monks are designed for high mobility and control. The only real options to have a monk with high DPR require more than just a dip into other classes, and requires giving up a lot of what it means to be a monk.

[MaxWilson]

A 17th level Shadow Monk can flurry for a total of 5d10 + 25 points of damage = 53 * hit percentage DPR. That's solid medium damage. I suppose you could dip fighter for Dueling style for a bit of extra damage, or Rogue, but really the monk isn't designed to spike for hundreds of DPR. Consistent solid medium damage + control effects + high mobility that prevents him from taking damage is more his speed.

(Well actually, the monk IMO is more designed for scouting and skirmishing than for engaging in mass combat at all, but when he does engage in combat he's a bantamweight.)

[Arc-Royal]

Just a thought off the top of my head, but how does a three-level dip into Ranger for Dueling Fighting Style, Hunter's Mark, and Colossus Slayer (at the cost of Empty Body, an ASI, and Perfect Self) sound? You still keep the d10 unarmed/monk weapon damage die.

Theoretical maximum of 4d10+1d8+2d6+20+4 damage (or, if you're an elements monk using Fangs of the Fire Snake and use 2 ki, 4d10+2d10+1d8+2d6+20+4 damage).

If an unarmed strike counts as a "melee weapon" as far as Dueling is concerned and a "weapon attack" as far as Hunter's Mark is concerned, you're actually looking at 4d10+1d8+4d6+20+8 and 4d10+4d10+1d8+4d6+20+8 damage, respectively. Granted, I suspect that's not within the spirits of the fighting style and spell, so that'd likely be a matter of DM fiat/interpretation.

[Malifice]

Just a thought off the top of my head, but how does a three-level dip into Ranger for Dueling Fighting Style, Hunter's Mark, and Colossus Slayer (at the cost of Empty Body, an ASI, and Perfect Self) sound? You still keep the d10 unarmed/monk weapon damage die.

Theoretical maximum of 4d10+1d8+2d6+20+4 damage (or, if you're an elements monk using Fangs of the Fire Snake and use 2 ki, 4d10+2d10+1d8+2d6+20+4 damage).

If an unarmed strike counts as a "melee weapon" as far as Dueling is concerned and a "weapon attack" as far as Hunter's Mark is concerned, you're actually looking at 4d10+1d8+4d6+20+8 and 4d10+4d10+1d8+4d6+20+8 damage, respectively. Granted, I suspect that's not within the spirits of the fighting style and spell, so that'd likely be a matter of DM fiat/interpretation.

I'd prefer (Hunter/ spell less Ranger) dip.

Dueling only works with melee weapon (not unarmed) but that's 2 of your 4 attacks per round).

I prefer Mariner F/S if thats allowed personally.

[BladeWing81]

I've been thinking of making either a variant human monk or a wood elf monk. since this disscussion is about monk damage I think this is a place to ask opinions.

wood elf looks like a better option since I don't see any good feat for the humen version other that either alert or Tough.
are there any good offensive options in feats for monks?

[coredump]

Also check Mobile feat. More movement and free disengage.....

[Arc-Royal]

I've been thinking of making either a variant human monk or a wood elf monk. since this disscussion is about monk damage I think this is a place to ask opinions.

wood elf looks like a better option since I don't see any good feat for the humen version other that either alert or Tough.
are there any good offensive options in feats for monks?
Sharpshooter, if you ever find yourself making a ranged attack. That aside, I honestly don't have any feats in my planned build for my monk.

[SharkForce]

honestly, i'm not sure this can really be done that well as a build. to add in a lot of damage, you're going to need to add in a lot of not-monk. you can add in a little bit of damage for a small dip, but there's no build where you take almost exclusively monk levels and do major damage as a result.

having said that, much like the fighter, the monk scales very well off of bonus to damage per hit. if you can find something that adds bonus damage and combines well with unarmed strikes (or if you just allow monks to flurry and use martial arts with weapons but cap the damage at their martial arts die - why can't we have a ninja that throws shuriken as fast as he throws punches, or a spear-focused martial art that doesn't revolve around working in as many or more kicks and punches as spear thrusts?) you can add quite a bit of damage that way.

[Malifice]

I second mobile.

Alert and lucky for obvious reasons.

[BladeWing81]

I second mobile.

Alert and lucky for obvious reasons.

I'm beggining to see the use for this feat as well, just on the fact that I won't provoke opportunity attacks, which will be extremly useful once the monks goes up againsts giants or other enemies that will literally squash him in one hit. not having better AC or being able to remove yourself from melee attacks for all three subclasses for a mainly melee combat class seems like an extreme oversight.

[Malifice]

Play your monk as a precision guided munition. You're a stun lock machine with all the inbuilt mobility (move speed, bonus action dash, reaction denial, wall running, leaping over enemies etc) to get you past mooks to a high profile target and lock it down while you wait for the cavalry (fighters, barbs and Paladins) to arrive.

You deal moderate damage, but have excellent mobility and defence options and the ability to really screw up a ****ty con save targets day (stunning fist, quivering Palm, OHM shoving etc).

Mage killer is also a great feat if your DM has a penchant for spellcasting BBEGs. Run up to them and slap them silly and watch your DM cry.

[weaseldust]

Sentinel is another option; it lets you deal damage with your reaction more reliably. It's mostly safe for a Monk to keep using once you can spend ki to dodge as a bonus action, but you might want to be careful with the 'stop enemies moving away' part at level 1.

[coredump]

I just started by Monk this weekend, with Mobile. My friend was playing a dwarf, so by 2nd level my speed was *double* what he could do. (not to mention being able to Dash twice....)

Big Fun.

[Waazraath]

Thanks for all the replies! I understand the 'high damage monk' isn't the most logical, or even really possible, but that's the challange ;)

I really like BladeWing81's suggestion for the belt of giant strength: 5 attacks of 1d10+9 is quite nice; coupled with a few levels of fighter (for stronger crits or supriority dice; action surge; fighting style) or a few levels of barbarian (for extra rage damage), or both, that could be quite impressive, while still being over mostly monk. This probably only works in specific campaigns though, where you can start at high level with a item for choice (since starting with a str based monk build isn't that good, in most circumstances). Nevertheless, nice!

Malifice: your preference for battlemaster above champion: is it because of the extra options BM offers, or do you think it gives higher numbers, damage wise?

Funny thing that I noticed thinking about this, and reading your replies: there are very little ways outside of 'class features' to increase weapon damage! Only one race (half-orc), to increase crits (ok, ability modifiers also increase damage, but they are capped and will reach max during the levels). Feats: hardly. Savage attacker seems rather weak, as does charger, martial adept is only 1d6/short rest... only great weapon master and sharp shooter really increase damage, but they are restricted to a certain fighting style. There are few spells that are strong (hex, hunter's mark, divine favour, elemental weapon) - but they are also restricted for certain (partial) caster builds.

[Mechaviking]

Also a 3 dip in ranger isn´t all bad.

hunters mark, mariner style giving climb and swim speed, and maybie collossus slayer if you sweet talk you dm and it´s really elfie so wood elf ;D

[Malifice]

Malifice: your preference for battlemaster above champion: is it because of the extra options BM offers, or do you think it gives higher numbers, damage wise?

Both. Leaving aside the Fighter benefits to the monk (action surge, second wind, F/S, more weapons, higher HD) I really like the BM maneuvers. They compliment the Monks 'priority target striker' role. Particularly useful if you have a **** of a DM who doesnt allow improvised actions.

Disarming strike is fantastic perma-lockdown (most BBEG's only have one weapon, or a single spell focus). Pushing attack is fantastic to knock someone prone, and I dig precise strike too.

Remember - a stunned creature automatically fails any Str or Dex saves it has to make. You can auto disarm it (of its weapon or spell focus) with disarming strike, and then use your free object interaction to pick (the weapon/ focus) up.

Save your superiority dice, Ki and action surge for priority targets, and wreck their days.

I quite like move + action surge attack (2 attacks)+ attack (2 attacks) + flurry (2 attacks). Spam stunning fist till your opponent is stunned, then immediately disarm him (BM) adding to the damage, and then knock him prone (OHM) adding to the damage on your next attack.

It can be devastating.

[MaxWilson]

Funny thing that I noticed thinking about this, and reading your replies: there are very little ways outside of 'class features' to increase weapon damage! Only one race (half-orc), to increase crits (ok, ability modifiers also increase damage, but they are capped and will reach max during the levels). Feats: hardly. Savage attacker seems rather weak, as does charger, martial adept is only 1d6/short rest... only great weapon master and sharp shooter really increase damage, but they are restricted to a certain fighting style. There are few spells that are strong (hex, hunter's mark, divine favour, elemental weapon) - but they are also restricted for certain (partial) caster builds.

Don't forget Magic Initiate: Hex.

[Malifice]

Don't forget Magic Initiate: Hex.

Not worth it in my view for a 1/day +1d6 (requires bonus action on a class that uses that bonus action most turns) low Con save class.

Situationally OK, but really runs out of steam.

[BladeWing81]

I really like BladeWing81's suggestion for the belt of giant strength: 5 attacks of 1d10+9 is quite nice; coupled with a few levels of fighter (for stronger crits or supriority dice; action surge; fighting style) or a few levels of barbarian (for extra rage damage), or both, that could be quite impressive, while still being over mostly monk. This probably only works in specific campaigns though, where you can start at high level with a item for choice (since starting with a str based monk build isn't that good, in most circumstances). Nevertheless, nice!


Martial arts Feature allows you to use either strength or Dexterity at any time for your attacks so you can start with a high Dex Monk then change your attacks to use Strength once you get the gauntlets or one of the belts, allowing you to concentrate on Wisdom first to get better AC and Saving throws for your Ki abilities then you can add Dex to for the AC. these items also come in all difficulty levels so you can get almost any of them in any adventure with a little luck





Item
Strength
Rarity


Gauntlets of ogre strength
19
Uncommon


Belt of Hill Giant strentgh
21
Rare


Belt of Stone Giant strentgh
23
Very Rare


Belt of Frost Giant strentgh
23
Very Rare


Belt of Fire Giant strentgh
25
Very Rare


Belt of Cloud Giant strentgh
27
Legendary


Belt of Storm Giant strentgh
29
Legendary

[Z3ro]

Besides some of the good suggestions given already, I think if magic weapons are on the table, they can help a lot in upping damage as well. Especially something like a flame tongue, which adds 2d6 fire damage, and is only rare. You can always switch it up to something like a frostbrand if you're worried about resistances.