Paladin-esque Medium

[Xuldarinar]

At one point in time I proposed the notion, and even a method, to create a binder who not only emulated a paladin (the paladin of its edition anyways), but preformed the job of a paladin better.

Now that pathfinder has a class that works in a similar light, though some time has passed since its release, it is about time I pose that question for pathfinder. So, Using the medium class and to the exclusion of the paladin class, how can one best emulate a paladin in terms of flavor and capabilities?

Are there any advantages to approaching a paladin through the medium class rather than the paladin class?

[Novawurmson]

I think you're going to have a difficult time with it - the new medium has just a handful of spirits that are precisely created to fit certain roles and can only bind multiple spirits at high levels with restrictions (rather than the 3.5 binder, who had a ton of spirits that only loosely fit any role which it could bind multiple of at lower levels with almost no restrictions). You could certainly play something like medium VMC (variant multiclass) paladin - off the top of my head, it sound like it would play great with the Charisma synergy.

[Vhaidara]

I highly recommend against vmc paladin, it is terrible. 1/day smite at level -4 at level 11, and divine bond at 19. Not bad abilities, but WAY too late.

The big question is what kind of paladin are you looking for. There's the Champion spirit for righteous beat down, or the Guardian spirit for the heavily armored Protector. Marshal spirit is the leader of men, and heirophant gives you divine magic. The paladin is a mix of a little of all of these.

[Xuldarinar]

Well, I'd say first off that the Hierophant spirit fits the bill in terms of a spirit to focus on, largely because you can choose to take on the paladin code of conduct (or antipaladin code of conduct if you rather go that way) as your taboo.

From there, you already have channeling, some divine spells, and a code of conduct to adhere to.

If VMC comes into the picture, while there are plenty of viable options it is worth noting that the oracle with the battle mystery could cover proficiencies quite easily with skill of arms and some of its other revelations would help a fair bit.

As far as divine bond, and smiting, and perhaps getting that additional attack, I can't think of anything for that.

[Novawurmson]

I'd say that the Lay on Hands is the real draw. Yeah, it's not that amazing when you pick it up, but it's swift action when used on yourself (and plenty of classes don't really make use of their swift actions) and scales very well:

8 - 4/day - 2d6 (28 hp healed/day)
10 - 5/day - 3d6 (52.5 hp healed/day)
12 - 6/day - 4d6 (84 hp healed/day)
14 - 7/day - 5d6 (122.5 hp healed/day)
16 - 8/day - 6d6 (168 hp healed/day)
18 - 9/day - 7d6 (220.5 hp healed/day)
20 - 10/day - 8d6 (280 hp healed/day)

But I'm completely willing to drop the discussion if the OP isn't interested, because they asked "how close can you get to paladin as a medium without paladin," and I kind of feel like the VMC might be cheating in that context. I just brought it up if they really wanted to play a straight-class medium, but also wanted paladin abilities.

[Xuldarinar]

I'd say that the Lay on Hands is the real draw. Yeah, it's not that amazing when you pick it up, but it's swift action when used on yourself (and plenty of classes don't really make use of their swift actions) and scales very well:

8 - 4/day - 2d6 (28 hp healed/day)
10 - 5/day - 3d6 (52.5 hp healed/day)
12 - 6/day - 4d6 (84 hp healed/day)
14 - 7/day - 5d6 (122.5 hp healed/day)
16 - 8/day - 6d6 (168 hp healed/day)
18 - 9/day - 7d6 (220.5 hp healed/day)
20 - 10/day - 8d6 (280 hp healed/day)

But I'm completely willing to drop the discussion if the OP isn't interested, because they asked "how close can you get to paladin as a medium without paladin," and I kind of feel like the VMC might be cheating in that context. I just brought it up if they really wanted to play a straight-class medium, but also wanted paladin abilities.

Im not opposed to the notion of a Medium/ VMC Paladin. It does literally cover it, and one from there can use much of its abilities. Besides, if you use the Hierophant spirit you can just choose the paladin code as your taboo and it won't restrict you much more than you already are via your VMC. It is cheating a little bit, but it is an option given the premise.

[Serafina]

What role do you want to perform better?

Party-leader? You innately have high charisma, so you can grab Diplomacy&Co and do that. For actual leading - well, you are arguably the best class for that in the game. Marshal-Spirit takes a while to come online - but eventually, you can hand out Bard-level bonuses for Offense (attack&Damage) or defense (saving throws). You can also grant allies extra attacks or extra standard actions, tough only a few times per day.

Armored front-line fighter?
Well, you can do some decent damage with the Champion-Spirit, and you innately have medium armor. But you only have a D8 HD, no shield-proficiency and no real defensive class features to make up for that. The Guardian gets quite tanky - basically you get all good saves, heavy armor, shields and up to DR 10/-, as well as an ability to protect allies.
You can do it, but you won't be better than the Paladin.

Healer? The Hierophant get channel energy and 6th-level Cleric casting. But you can't do Oradin-style healing, and healing isn't that great anyway.
You can do it, but not better than the Paladin.

You can get a mount, but then again every class can do that via feats.


The Medium is a good class - particularly with the right build or with the Spirit Dancer archetype. You could certainly flavor the character more Paladin-ish and less Occult - channeling angels or divine champion spirits works. But you won't beat the Paladin at being a front-line fighter with healing and support, because you have to pick one of those three.

[Novawurmson]

Ooh.. I really like Spirit Dancer Medium VMC Paladin. Fluff your switch between Guardian/Hierophant/Champion/etc. as switching between different saints/heroes of the faith/aspects of your deity or pantheon.