Palladium Games

[Grizzled Gryphon]

Anyone here play these games? I do, and I love that system.

In fact, Rifts is what got me started on gaming. It was my very first game.

Currently, I am running a Nightbane/Heroes Unlimited/Ninja and Superspies game, set in Century Station. I just started it, but Dark Day just happened in the last session, and isn't over, yet. The best part is none of my players are familiar with the game, so I am enjoying it.

[Baerdog7]

I can't say that I've played any of Palladium's products. Last I heard, they had a ton of money embezzled from them and they were facing bankruptcy and were doing everything they could to keep their doors open. A shame, really, because I've heard nothing but good things about their games.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Played it. Didn't like it.

If you don't have MDC, you won't last in RIFTS. If you do have MDC, you only have to worry about MDC. Basically, with even Dogboy armor, you can literally walk up to a squad of guys with fully automatic rifles without even worrying about damage, and rip them all a new one. Let's not get started about MDC weapons. Against anything with SDC, it's an auto-gib.

This game is seriously about the haves and have-nots. If you have MDC, you win. If you don't, you loose. That simple.

[Grizzled Gryphon]

I suppose we won't mention, then, that EVERY character class has MDC protection of some sort right from the begining of the game. And MDC weapons. Of course, all the bad guys have MDC, too. So, no, having MDC isn't an 'auto-win', unless you go looking for people without MDC.

In Rifts, most of the time, you are a Hero, and you use your MDC to fight evil things with MDC. If you played a game where you were the only ones with MDC, then your DM was doing some sort of easy power gaming thing, I guess. You couldn't be hurt by the guys with assualt rifles, like you say, and you could use a laser pistol to kill as many as you can get lined up with a shot.

Doing a game in Rifts like that is just stupid. That would be like playing DnD with 20th level + characters, going against commoners. What is the point? Should you ever find a real GM for Rifts, and actually play the game as intended, then you might find it is pretty fun, like the thousands of people who do.

[Rob Knotts]

I've never been a fan of the Palladium system to begin with, mainly because years ago I gave up on the system it was based on, AD&D 1st Edition.

The basic idea behind Rifts itself, post-apocalyptic fantasy adventure, actually has a lot of appeal, but in the long run Siembieda drove it into the ground with wildly unbalanced character classes, copy/pasting in old material from other Palladium games, rampant copyright infringement, and an incredibly arrogant attitude as main editor of the game (copyrighting paragraphs?).

That said, C.J. Carella wrote some great books for Rifts (Pantheons and Juicer Uprising offer some great ideas whether you play Rifts or not), and Vince Martin's art was almost enough on it's own to sell some books (between him and Carella Rifts Japan had more than enough cool stuff to balance out all the crap).

Overall, the biggest problem I see for Rifts right now is Siembieda's stubborn refusal to switch to d20. It's a D&D-derived system to begin with, it actually wouldn't be that difficult, and it would be a way for Palladium to release a lot of old material for a new market (did I mention Siembieda's really into cut&paste reprinting?). Unfortunately, Siemieda's refusal to convert Palladium to d20 just cements his egotistical and unreasonable reputation, at least in my opinion.

[Grizzled Gryphon]

I've never been a fan of the Palladium system to begin with, mainly because years ago I gave up on the system it was based on, AD&D 1st Edition.



Hmm, I played D&D first edition and all of the palladium titles. Neither of which were similar in any way aside from rolling a 20 sided die for randomness for attacks and whatnot. In fact, that is the only thing they had in common as far as rules or mechanics go. Much like D20 3.5 and AD&D 1st edition both use a 20 sided die for rolling attacks. The more I think about it, the more the vast difference of the two systems come to mind.

I have to say, I am not sure what game systems you are talking about. Palladiums game mechanics and AD&D 1st editions game mechanics have less in common then the D20 3.5 and AD&D 1st edition game mechanics do.

[Rob Knotts]

Hmm, I played D&D first edition and all of the palladium titles. Neither of which were similar in any way aside from rolling a 20 sided die for randomness for attacks and whatnot. In fact, that is the only thing they had in common as far as rules or mechanics go. Much like D20 3.5 and AD&D 1st edition both use a 20 sided die for rolling attacks. The more I think about it, the more the vast difference of the two systems come to mind.

I have to say, I am not sure what game systems you are talking about. Palladiums game mechanics and AD&D 1st editions game mechanics have less in common then the D20 3.5 and AD&D 1st edition game mechanics do.Ah, then you must be using that OTHER version of Palladium rules, the version that doesn't use alignments, level-based spell lists, stats created by random 3d6 rolls, rigid character classes with no multiclassing, armor cla... er, armor rating....

Consider yourself fortunate then, everybody else is stuck with a version of Palladium obviously adapted from a version of D&D published over 25 years ago.

[Grizzled Gryphon]

Well, if you take into account the things almost EVERY game out there has, then yeah, it is based on that system.

This just boils down to degrees of difference. I don't recall any other game where you have different amounts of d6 (or whatever) based on your race. For D&D in all its incarnations, you roll 3d6. The only race you roll 3d6 for for all its stats in palladium is human. Every other race has a few stats that are 3d6, but most of them are 4d6, 5d6, 2d6, 2d6+2, or something like that.

Even in 1st edition, you could multiclass a lot easier than in palladium.

Armor class and armor rating are almost similar... How much damage does armor take in D&D if you don't beat the armor class of the guy wearing it? Oh, we won't mention that Armor Rating gets better the HIGHER it is, unlike D&D 1st edition. And, we shouldn't probably mention that the only things in the game with armor ratings are things that are armor, instead of everything in the world.

As for alignments, 1, they are different enough to not even be the same thing. 2, I have only seen two games without alignments, and those are Shadowrun and the Whitewolf system games. But, I better not use the Whitewolf system as a reference for this, as they have level dependant powers, so must be a clone of D&D 1st edition, too.

I have to admit, I think alignments are stupid, and if I could get it to work for D&D where it doesn't take a thousand houserules, I would drop them like a hot potato. Thankfully the palladium system is rather easy for the alignments to be dropped. I could be wrong, but I think the loss of alignments in that system affects, what, one spell? Maybe a class ability somewhere?

Here is a problem with my arguements, though. I played D&D 1st edition for a number of years with the same people. That was the only playing of the game I did. So, they very well could have had some houserules for multiclassing, or something like that. I honestly don't know, I haven't cracked a first edition book in 10 years, at least. I just don't see the resembleance you guys are saying is there. The skills are such a huge difference, so maybe that is why it seems so different to me.

[jkdjr25]

I've played Palladium games in the past, and I'm of two minds on them. The system it self is pretty horrid. Unless you're playing a mage or psion there's practically no benefit to leveling; on top of that its insanely difficult to level up. The skill system, while diverse (which I like) leaves alot to be desired in its execution.

Now as far as SETTINGS go, now that's a different story. Palladium has always been great at writing background and flavor text material. Nightbane in particular was very well written from a story context.

If Simbeida would just let the system evolve into something a bit more fluid it would bring him even more success.

[Lapak]

The skill system, while diverse (which I like) leaves alot to be desired in its execution.

Now as far as SETTINGS go, now that's a different story. Palladium has always been great at writing background and flavor text material. Nightbane in particular was very well written from a story context.
As much as I hate to chime in with 'me too', I agree: fantastic backgrounds, horrible system. RIFTs, flavorwise, delivered on its premise gloriously. Palladium Fantasy had a well-realized campaign world with ancient history and modern conflicts. Ninjas and Superspies had the gizmos and the 40-odd distinct martial arts styles to go crazy with. TMNT had mutant animals of a thousand descriptions and fun adventure ideas.

Beyond the Supernatural, Heroes Unlimited - flavor in spades.

But in RIFTs, a Glitter Boy will take a Cyber Knight apart without breathing hard. Every time. Classes were horrendously unbalanced.

In Palladium Fantasy, randomly-rolled and strictly-assigned stats determined whether you could be a fighter (weak), a knight (powerful) or a paladin (rock n' roll star.) So good rolling was rewarded with even more power.

In TMNT, random rolls determined both animal type - and some had far better budgets for mutation and inherent bonuses than others - and background. And again, the background you get by rolling 100 gives you more skills, more money, and more training than the one you get for rolling 23.

And in all of them, the combat system was (in my opinion) just the wrong combination of crunchy enough to be cumbersome while loose enough to be inaccurate.

So I have a love/hate relationship with Palladium.

[Grizzled Gryphon]

I've played Palladium games in the past, and I'm of two minds on them. The system it self is pretty horrid. Unless you're playing a mage or psion there's practically no benefit to leveling; on top of that its insanely difficult to level up. The skill system, while diverse (which I like) leaves alot to be desired in its execution.

Now as far as SETTINGS go, now that's a different story. Palladium has always been great at writing background and flavor text material. Nightbane in particular was very well written from a story context.

If Simbeida would just let the system evolve into something a bit more fluid it would bring him even more success.

I have to admit that you are right. Aside from Psionic characters and casters, there isn't any benefit to leveling, aside from the minor improvements to your combat. I don't keep track of Exp, I just let people know they have leveled pretty much when I feel like it.

The other time that levels matter is for super powers. oh, and your skills get better.

The setting are cool. I think that is the saving grace of the games, to be honest. Upgrading to the D20 system would be a good thing, I think. Of course, that would be a huge undertaking.

EDIT: As for the Glitterboy vs. the CyberKnight, I think the real issue for the Glitterboy would be "is this guy worth the ammo?". Yeah, balance isn't a high point of the game. However, while the Cyber knight is no match for the Glitterboy, the Glitterboy is no match for a Werewolf or Vampire. But the Cyber Knight has a very good chance against either of them. So trying to figure out a balance for the game would be a horrendous mess.

[Rob Knotts]

Ah, then you must be using that OTHER version of Palladium rules, the version that doesn't use alignments, level-based spell lists, stats created by random 3d6 rolls, rigid character classes with no multiclassing, armor cla... er, armor rating....

Consider yourself fortunate then, everybody else is stuck with a version of Palladium obviously adapted from a version of D&D published over 25 years ago.
Well, if you take into account the things almost EVERY game out there has, then yeah, it is based on that system.Apparently you're not familiar with GURPS, Champions, BESM, Cyberpunk, World of Darkness, or any system not similar enough to D&D or d20 to appeal to you.

[Daze]

personally, I always liked Palladium games. Theres so much you can do with the stories...

as far as systems though, I find White Wolf's D10 superior to D20 in a lot of ways, but thats just me maybe.

[Caelestion]

I always thought RIFTS was an exercise in rampant powergaming, and that's coming from someone who likes playing Heroes Unlimited...