Better than "Returning"?

[ImaDeadMan]

I'm looking for a way for my character to have a short spear that he can throw mid charge and have it return to him while charging and then use it in a melee attack via the Hurling Charge feat from the Miniatures Handbook. I looked at the "Returning" enhancement but that states that the weapon will return to you and be ready to use at the start of your next turn. Do you guys know of any other weapon enhancements that could return the weapon instantly or perhaps another, non magical, method to pull this trick off?

[Know(Nothing)]

Actually I read the feat and withdraw my previous advice.

[BowStreetRunner]

...have a short spear that he can throw mid charge and have it return to him while charging and then use it in a melee attack via the Hurling Charge feat...

Unfortunately, even if you figure out a way to make this work, by RAW the wording of the Hurling Charge feat would prevent this. "If you charge an opponent, you may make a ranged attack with a thrown weapon as well as a melee attack with another weapon that you draw during the charge." [emphasis added] Unless your DM is willing to allow otherwise, you can't use the same weapon for both. As Quick Draw is a prerequisite feat for Hurling Charge, you can always get a second copy of the same weapon made and use that one.

[Darrin]

Bloodstorm Blade 4's Lightning Ricochet (Tome of Battle) is worth a look.

[Chronos]

Yeah, I think Bloodstorm Blade is the only way to do this.

Well, that, or the infamous Cursed Sword -2, but it's really tough to make that worthwhile.

[Sagetim]

Well, Teleporting is a psionic alternate, but it has the same limitation that returning does (in that it returns to your hand the following round). On the bright side, it teleports back to your hand instead of going back to where you threw it from or some such thing. Downside: it does this by going through the astral plane...so, you know, dimensional anchor and what not stops it from doing it's thing.

[Roog]

If PF material is allowed then a Blinkback Belt (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/a-b/belt-blink-back) helps in scenarios like this.

[Naez]

Gloves of Endless Javelins. Throw one, free action make another, and stab someone with it.

[sovin_ndore]

In one game my character recieved an weapon that could be recalled to my hand as a free action and I used this exact combo and throw anything to make it work. Pretty sure the weapon enchant was 3rd party though (maybe Arcana Evolved). I will see if I can reach out to the DM for that campaign and see if they remember.

I would also expect a Soulblade of appropriate level could probably pull this off and get around the 'same weapon' restriction while essentially using the same weapon. That may be DM discretion though, I would have to revisit the text on the 'throw soulblade' ability.

[mabriss lethe]

You could also take the Tormtor School feat from Drow of the Underdark to gain an additional ranged attack with a javelin as a swift action after you melee with it (it might also make the gloves of endless javelins work better with Hurling Charge, since it negates the attack roll penalty for using a javelin in melee.)

[Sagetim]

In one game my character recieved an weapon that could be recalled to my hand as a free action and I used this exact combo and throw anything to make it work. Pretty sure the weapon enchant was 3rd party though (maybe Arcana Evolved). I will see if I can reach out to the DM for that campaign and see if they remember.

I would also expect a Soulblade of appropriate level could probably pull this off and get around the 'same weapon' restriction while essentially using the same weapon. That may be DM discretion though, I would have to revisit the text on the 'throw soulblade' ability.

Soulblade? Do you mean Mindblade? (the Soulknife ability that, admittedly, should maybe be called soulblade instead to fit with the name of the class). Anyway, if you're talking about mindblades, then at under level 5 in soulknife you would need to use a move action to form a new blade, which puts a damper on making any kind of full attack or some such thing. But at 5th level in Soulknife they can draw a new mind blade as a free action. As I recall, the way it's written states that the mindblade dissipiates if you let go of it (unless you throw it), and it also states that you can have more than one mindblade out if you have either drawn two for two weapon fighting (limiting you to a pair in short sword form) or if you have thrown one or more and still have more attacks in the round.

[Novawurmson]

If 3rd party is on the table, check out the Returning Throw (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/feats/returning-throw-psionic) feat and/or the Spearman (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/classes/marksman/archetypes/dreamscarred-press/spearman) marksman archetype.

[sovin_ndore]

Soulblade? Do you mean Mindblade? (the Soulknife ability that, admittedly, should maybe be called soulblade instead to fit with the name of the class).
Sorry, too tired when I wrote this. I was indeed referring to Mindblade. Specifically a Mindblade that had hit the lvl 5 threshold that would allow them to manifest as a free action and not have their weapons dissipate upon thrown.

[Jowgen]

+1 for the Gloves of Endless Javelins. There have been plenty of arguments about whether they deal force damage and ignore hardness, with good points on both sides, so if you can get it past your DM, you can net yourself the best HP-damage type in game. Even if not, they're one of the few things that can make throwing somewhat viable. Those Scarab Symbiotes from Eberron are another option, but far more DM-dependent. Knowledge devotion, well-tuned Favored Enemy and the Bracers of Lightning (MIC) can get you some extra oomph on them, in case your DM won't allow you to homebrew-add enchantments onto them.

Oh yeah, also, if you do go with Returning, don't waste money on an enhancement. One of the older faerun books has some gloves it that automatically make any weapon you wield throwing and returning for 10000 gp, which is far more cost effective than the alternative. Name of the things escapes me though.

Lastly, Targeteer Fighter Dragon 310 is always worth a look when working on a mundane ranged character. Combines well with Hit n' Run tactics from DotU.

[ImaDeadMan]

You guys are great. These are all decent suggestions and I'm going to see if I can get the DM to ok bringing that Pathfinder feat, "Returning Throw", into the game since that seems to be precisely what I was looking for as well as it seems like it would be easy enough to convince my DM to let me do so.

[StreamOfTheSky]

Bloodstorm Blade 4 for Lightning Ricochet is the most common method.

If you're a psychic warrior, the Telepathic Boomerang power (C.Psionic, I think?) does basically the same thing.

At low levels, a lesser crystal of return (Magic Item Compendium) will let you teleport the weapon back to your hand as a move action, so you can at least throw-recover once each round.


Sorry, too tired when I wrote this. I was indeed referring to Mindblade. Specifically a Mindblade that had hit the lvl 5 threshold that would allow them to manifest as a free action and not have their weapons dissipate upon thrown.

The problem with the mind blade is, that STUPID text limiting you to one re-forming of the mind blade per round, even when used for throwing. So you then have to wait till very high levels to get the ability to actually full attack with it. A fair DM would strike the Multiple Throw class feature from the game and give you that benefit right at level 5, but you can't count on that.

[Sagetim]

*snip*
The problem with the mind blade is, that STUPID text limiting you to one re-forming of the mind blade per round, even when used for throwing. So you then have to wait till very high levels to get the ability to actually full attack with it. A fair DM would strike the Multiple Throw class feature from the game and give you that benefit right at level 5, but you can't count on that.

Wasn't that fixed in the errata or something? Or was I just assuming that it worked sensibly?

[zergling.exe]

Wasn't that fixed in the errata or something? Or was I just assuming that it worked sensibly?

The problem exists in that Free Draw forces you to one draw max per round. Multiple Throw (at 17th level!) allows you to form as many mind blades as you have attacks, provided you are throwing them.

Before you get Free Draw, additional action shenanigans could allow you to form as many mind blades as you can squeeze move actions in.

[Andezzar]

Gloves of Endless Javelins. Throw one, free action make another, and stab someone with it.Unfortunately:
Since it is not designed for melee, you are treated as nonproficient with it and take a -4 penalty on attack rolls if you use a javelin as a melee weapon.

[StreamOfTheSky]

Wasn't that fixed in the errata or something? Or was I just assuming that it worked sensibly?

You were just assuming. But it's super easy to fix. Check it out:



At 5th level, a soulknife becomes able to materialize his mind blade as a free action instead of a move action. He can make only one attempt to materialize the mind blade per round, however.


Multiple Throw (Ex)
At 17th level and higher, a soulknife can throw a number of mind blades per round equal to the number of melee attacks he could make.

And...done! :smallsmile:

[mabriss lethe]

Unfortunately:
Tormtor school feat from Drow of the Underdark fixes this.