Sorcerer Bloodlines (Paizo)

[ThinkMinty]

I've rolled Sorcerer a few times, and for some reason I tend to stick to the Arcane bloodline. Since it's my favorite class I've tried so far in Pathfinder, I'm curious as to what the other options look like; both in the fluff, and the crunch.

[Da'Shain]

Most of my DMs have let me refluff bloodlines to my heart's content, especially when I mess around with Crossblooded or Eldritch Heritage, so my suggestion there is just "go wild". In terms of crunch, though, really I can't do any better than this guide (http://www.pathfindercommunity.net/tyler-s-pathfinder-guides/magic-in-the-blood-a-guide-to-eldritch-heritage-and-sorcerer-bloodlines) did, it's a really good overview of how each bloodline changes your character type.

[Kurald Galain]

Draconic and Orc are very good on a blaster, to the point where an evoker or Magus may want to multiclass into sorcerer for them.

[Psyren]

I've rolled Sorcerer a few times, and for some reason I tend to stick to the Arcane bloodline. Since it's my favorite class I've tried so far in Pathfinder, I'm curious as to what the other options look like; both in the fluff, and the crunch.

There's a lot of them (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/sorcerer/bloodlines) - is there a specific one you were more curious about, or is this more of a general "what's good?" (In which case, I'd start with a handbook.)

[Spore]

and for some reason I tend to stick to the Arcane bloodline.

The reason is actually very simple. (Non human) sorcerers have very few spells to pick from and many of the other bloodlines have just flat-out terrible spells or bloodline powers. Arcane bloodline has very decent bloodline powers and the suggested fluff is very toned down and malleable.

[Milo v3]

I like fey, simply for changeling flavour potential + being able to force people to laugh at horrible puns.

[tadkins]

Arcane bloodline is one of the strongest, if a little generic.

Flavor-wise, I always liked the Starsoul bloodline.

[Dondasch]

Flavor-wise, I always liked the Starsoul bloodline.

Me too; it's also one of the mechanically better bloodlines. The spells, feats, and powers are all pretty nice, though the first level power is a dud. The Wildblooded option, Void-Touched is probably my favorite bloodline, as it changes the nigh-useless arcana for one that can be incredibly lethal against casters.

[Red Fel]

In terms of crunch, though, really I can't do any better than this guide (http://www.pathfindercommunity.net/tyler-s-pathfinder-guides/magic-in-the-blood-a-guide-to-eldritch-heritage-and-sorcerer-bloodlines) did, it's a really good overview of how each bloodline changes your character type.

Very much this. It's an excellent guide.

With regard to Bloodline choice, I readily agree that Arcane is the solid default, covering what you need for a general Sorcerer. That said, I do have a few favorites for specific character concepts. For instance, I like Kitsune (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/other-races/uncommon-races/arg-kitsune) Sorcerers generally, and often pair them with either the Fey (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/sorcerer/bloodlines/bloodlines-from-paizo/fey-bloodline) or Rakshasa (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/sorcerer/bloodlines/bloodlines-from-paizo/rakshasa-bloodline) bloodlines.

Fey Bloodline is great thematically, because you're taking a supernatural trickster and putting into its family tree another kind of supernatural trickster. It's also great mechanically; a Kitsune Sorcerer's favored class bonus increases the DC of enchantment spells, and the Fey bloodline not only contains solid enchantments, it also increases the DC of compulsions. (Yes, they stack. Yes, it's disgusting.) The Kitsune Fey-blooded Sorcerer is basically embracing the mythical concept of the Kitsune; a devious, cunning forest spirit who played (often cruel) pranks on travelers, and became lethally malicious if crossed.

Rakshasa Bloodline is also great thematically. Unlike the Fey, who are tricksters, Rakshasa are manipulators, devious and self-promoting. Kitsune make great manipulators, particularly with the Change Shape trait and the Realistic Likeness feat (which totally breaks the rules of Alter Self by letting you impersonate specific people). Rakshasa takes that and allows you to become the Man with a Thousand Faces - you enjoy constant Nondetection, you can freely Alter Self (on top of your Change Shape ability), and you can charm the skin off of a snake.

They're two excellent examples of fluff pairing beautifully with crunch.

[tadkins]

Me too; it's also one of the mechanically better bloodlines. The spells, feats, and powers are all pretty nice, though the first level power is a dud. The Wildblooded option, Void-Touched is probably my favorite bloodline, as it changes the nigh-useless arcana for one that can be incredibly lethal against casters.

Voidfield is just one of the coolest sounding abilities out there. xD

[Pex]

Impossible Bloodline is very handy for crafting magic items. Argument can be made they're better at it than wizards.

[Spore]

Fey Bloodline is great thematically, because you're taking a supernatural trickster and putting into its family tree another kind of supernatural trickster. It's also great mechanically; a Kitsune Sorcerer's favored class bonus increases the DC of enchantment spells, and the Fey bloodline not only contains solid enchantments, it also increases the DC of compulsions. (Yes, they stack. Yes, it's disgusting.) The Kitsune Fey-blooded Sorcerer is basically embracing the mythical concept of the Kitsune; a devious, cunning forest spirit who played (often cruel) pranks on travelers, and became lethally malicious if crossed.

Gonna steal that.

[Red Fel]

Gonna steal that.

You totally should. It's awesome.

[ThinkMinty]

There's a lot of them (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/sorcerer/bloodlines) - is there a specific one you were more curious about, or is this more of a general "what's good?" (In which case, I'd start with a handbook.)

Off the top of my head, Imperious and Impossible, but it's good to hear about all of 'em.

I tend to like Transmutation spells generally (utility, flexibility, being good without getting stupidly good like Conjuration or more heavily subjected to DM fiat like Necromancy), so hearing about the Kitsune options was quite interesting.

EDIT: Apparently Nanite is also really good for Transmutation, too.

[Xuldarinar]

I've found their diversity to be wondrous, and they become even more diverse when you include cross blooded, especially when you consider what things cannot be emulated with a single bloodline alone. For instance, you could be a crossblooded sorcerer with the shadow and infernal bloodlines to emulate one who's blood comes from a kyton, an option that is straight up available to bloodragers curiously enough.

Personally, while I adore the shadow and aberrant bloodlines, I favor the psychic bloodline, especially crossed with something else, given its arcana: "Your sorcerer spells and spell-like abilities count as psychic instead of arcane. You use thought and emotion components instead of verbal and somatic components when casting your spells."

At that point, you can throw arcane spell failure out the window. Combine that with VMC oracle with the battle mystery, and at 3rd level you can be a sorcerer, in full-plate, with no worries.

[Da'Shain]

Personally, while I adore the shadow and aberrant bloodlines, I favor the psychic bloodline, especially crossed with something else, given its arcana: "Your sorcerer spells and spell-like abilities count as psychic instead of arcane. You use thought and emotion components instead of verbal and somatic components when casting your spells."

At that point, you can throw arcane spell failure out the window. Combine that with VMC oracle with the battle mystery, and at 3rd level you can be a sorcerer, in full-plate, with no worries.Oh wow, I looked at that bloodline's powers and immediately dismissed it without even thinking about the arcana. That is awesome. Whelp, I know what I'm crossblooding with Draconic for my Paladin/Sorcerer/Dragon Disciple.

[ThinkMinty]

Personally, while I adore the shadow and aberrant bloodlines, I favor the psychic bloodline, especially crossed with something else, given its arcana: "Your sorcerer spells and spell-like abilities count as psychic instead of arcane. You use thought and emotion components instead of verbal and somatic components when casting your spells."

At that point, you can throw arcane spell failure out the window. Combine that with VMC oracle with the battle mystery, and at 3rd level you can be a sorcerer, in full-plate, with no worries.

VMC Oracle? Explain, as I haven't the foggiest idea what that's short for.

Also, with that...holy ****, you can play Sauron.

[Xuldarinar]

VMC Oracle? Explain, as I haven't the foggiest idea what that's short for.

Also, with that...holy ****, you can play Sauron.

Variant multiclassing. You can get info here (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/character-advancement#TOC-Variant-Multiclassing).


edit:

Oh wow, I looked at that bloodline's powers and immediately dismissed it without even thinking about the arcana. That is awesome. Whelp, I know what I'm crossblooding with Draconic for my Paladin/Sorcerer/Dragon Disciple.

One problem. Dragon Disciple requires and advances arcane casting, and you no longer have arcane spellcasting if you possess the psychic bloodline. You can negotiate for it, but RaW it won't work.

[Spore]

Oh wow, I looked at that bloodline's powers and immediately dismissed it without even thinking about the arcana. That is awesome. Whelp, I know what I'm crossblooding with Draconic for my Paladin/Sorcerer/Dragon Disciple.

I've done that. Crossblooded Dragon Disciple is only fun when you don't depend as much on your caster level and spell levels. Crossblooded Paladin 2/Sorcerer 3/DD is fine. Crossblooded Sorcerer 5/DD is not nearly as good (because you loose two caster levels to a standard sorcerer and three to any wizard).

[Talieth]

Hi !

If we are talking about Dragon Disciple, i feel that i have to mention that sweet option (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/racial-feats/scaled-disciple) that kobold have (or human/aasimar/half-orc with racial heritage ...)

Being an oracle of battle AND a dragon disciple is fun. Being a lunar Oracle AND a dragon diciple focused on natural attack with an animal companion (scalling until lvl9) is fun too.

[Xuldarinar]

Hi !

If we are talking about Dragon Disciple, i feel that i have to mention that sweet option (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/racial-feats/scaled-disciple) that kobold have (or human/aasimar/half-orc with racial heritage ...)

Being an oracle of battle AND a dragon disciple is fun. Being a lunar Oracle AND a dragon diciple focused on natural attack with an animal companion (scalling until lvl9) is fun too.

So, we have arcane casters that can qualify, divine casters that can qualify, but sadly as soon as you throw in the Psychic bloodline, even if the sorcerer is also cross blooded into dragon, they can't enter. Thats very interesting.

I will say dragon disciple is a bit underrated, especially in 3.5, because many don't get how the PrC is supposed to work. Now, if we could get a Con based sorcerer, then we'd have something to talk about with dragon disciple.


and while we are on the subject of the dragon bloodline, I've some themes that can be covered with crossblooded:

Brainstealer Dragon (a 3.5 notion, but a fun one): Aberration/Dragon
Jabberwock: Fey/Dragon
Umbral Dragon: Dragon/Shadow
Underworld Dragon: Elemental (Earth)/Dragon (Red)
Woundwyrm: Abyssal/Dragon

[ThinkMinty]

For some reason, I want to try out Serpentine. It's creepy as **** being...well, the D&D version of Kaa the Snake.

That, Nanite, Fey, Rakshasa, Impossible, Shadow a little bit...

I'm wondering how either Fey or Rakshasa cross with Serpentine (and to a lesser extent, Fey/Rakshasa), which would be done on a Human, so I could use the favored class bonus to offset the lost spell selection. Unsure if it's worth putting either of those combinations together.

[Red Fel]

I'm wondering how either Fey or Rakshasa cross with Serpentine (and to a lesser extent, Fey/Rakshasa), which would be done on a Human, so I could use the favored class bonus to offset the lost spell selection. Unsure if it's worth putting either of those combinations together.

Well, looking at spell lists, there is some overlap. Serpentine shares Poison and Irresistible Dance with Fey, and Mass Suggestion and Dominate Monster with Rakshasa.

In terms of Bloodline Arcana, Serpentine mixes very nicely with Fey, because one improves your compulsions, and the other allows them to affect non-humanoids. Rakshasa's ability to conceal spellcasting, by contrast, isn't really all that useful, and has no particular synergy with either.

Comparing their powers at each level: First-level Fey get a mind-affecting disable ability with per-day uses. Note that since it's not a spell, and has no type restriction, the Serpentine Arcana has no impact. First-level Rakshasa get a Glibness effect with per-day uses. First-level Serpents get a bite attack that gets better with age. Tigers and snakes win here. Third-level Serpents get a familiar, which in and of itself is incredibly powerful. Tigers get mind reading, which is a pretty solid second. Pixies fail. Ninth-level Pixies get per-day uses of Invisibility. Ninth-level Tigers get perpetual Nondetection, which is amazing. And ninth-level Snakes get a bunch of defensive perks, which is great if you intend to melee (and use your bite attack), but otherwise dull. Fifteenth-level pixies can reroll CL checks to overcome SR, which is fantastic if you're using SR: Yes spells, but less valuable if you're rolling spells against a target's save. Tigers can Alter Self at will into humanoids, which is again obscene. And Snakes can summon a 1/day Creeping Doom, which is nice, but not nearly as useful as at-will constant abilities.No sense in listing the capstones, since nobody reaches those, but the Snake's ability to assume an assortment of snake shapes (it never works), use its bite at will, and target any ability score with the poison is pretty awesome.

So, combinations. Well, it depends on what you want to do. As I've mentioned, both Fey and Rakshasa are great in my mind, and they happen to go very nicely together. There's no overlap between their spells, no clash between their Arcana, and you could mix their abilities to reasonable effect.

Serpentine... Well, as I mentioned, there's an overlap in spells. If you Crossblooded Serpentine with Fey, you'd have some nice impact with their Arcana synergy. And while you can't mix powers of the same level, you can grab one of a lower level - for example, if you don't like the Snake swarm and aren't a fan of rerolling CL, you could grab Fey Invisibility, which makes your bite attack even deadlier when you do it from hiding.

Overall, I'd say Serpentine mixes better, if anything, with Fey than with Rakshasa. But that's me.