PHB2 Shapeshift Druid Variant Question

[Diarmuid]

I'm building a character for a new game for when my group's current game ends and was considering playing a PHB2 Shapeshift druid variant. Part of the character idea is to play either a monstrous race, or a less socially acceptable race and spend as much time as possible in the shapeshifted forms. The difficult part to this is being able to utilize my spells.

The entry for the variant states:

"All your held, carried, or worn gear melds into your new form and becomes nonfunctional until you return to your normal form. You cannot speak in shapeshifted form, and your limbs lack the precision required to wield a weapon or perform tasks requiring fine manipulation. You cant cast spells or activate mafic items while in shapeshifted form, even if you have the Natural Spell feat or other ability that would allow you to cast spells while wild shaped."

I had been reading it such that the portion about not casting spells was due to the previous conditions stated about not speaking and not being able to perform fine manipulations. I've always understood the "Natural Spell and other abilitiy.." to not work because you dont have an ability called "wild shape" anymore.

I had thought that by utilizing a Pearl of Speech and taking things like Eschew Materials and Still Spell that I might be able to cast spells in these Shapeshifted forms. The DM pointed out (and I can see the reasoning) that the part about casting spells, while logically tied to the issues with hands/voice, is stated as a hard fact "cannot cast spells".

Am I trying to get water out of a sinking ship with a bucket that has holes here? Has anyone tried something similar and found anything rules legal to make something like this work?

[Vaz]

Your items meld and become non functional, and you are explicirly prevented from Spellcasting.

That about sums it up.

[Diarmuid]

The items thing is easily worked around by taking things off before changing and putting them back on after.

Its the other piece that seems like it should be able to be surmounted by expenditure of the proper resources, 2-3 feats and gold for magic items. Ah well.

Would any DM's allow for feats and items to overcome the spellcasting limitation on the Shapeshift variant?

[eggynack]

Would any DM's allow for feats and items to overcome the spellcasting limitation on the Shapeshift variant?
Don't see why not. DM's presumably allow natural spell and the like to overcome the spellcasting limitation on wild shape, and wild shape is way better than shapeshift. From a balance perspective, it therefore makes little sense to not houserule in the shapeshift+natural spell combination if you have natural spell work with wild shape.

[Flickerdart]

Shapeshift Druid is a deliberate nerf on the power of wild shape, with "you can't cast spells and fight in animal form at the same time" being a limitation that was too easy to bypass on original wild shape. In D&D, specific always beats general, so in order to cast while shapeshifted you would need something that
a) Can be activated by someone on your behalf, is a feat or class feature, or can be placed on you before you shift (to bypass the "your magic items turn off and can't be used" clause).
b) Specifically says "you can cast spells while in a form that normally wouldn't let you" though it need not refer to Shapeshift specifically, just general things.

I'm not aware of any such ability. There is the Surrogate Spellcasting feat that would allow you to use animal noises and animal motions for vocal and somatic components, but it doesn't specifically say it overrides a ban on casting spells, and therefore it doesn't.

[Telonius]

For what it's worth, I ban the regular Druid and use the Shapeshift variant specifically because it can't cast spells while "wild-shaped."

[Flickerdart]

For what it's worth, I ban the regular Druid and use the Shapeshift variant specifically because it can't cast spells while "wild-shaped."
Have you taken a look at the Aspects of Nature in UA/SRD? I like them a lot better than Shapeshift, with the possible tweak that their durations should be hours/level.

[eggynack]

Have you taken a look at the Aspects of Nature in UA/SRD? I like them a lot better than Shapeshift, with the possible tweak that their durations should be hours/level.
I tend to like aspect of the dragon (DrM, 11) more than aspect of nature. It has an hour duration, a swift action activation, and the abilities actually offer stuff that wild shape doesn't. Granted, the offered stuff is definitely worse, but it's nice to have at least some benefit.

[Vaz]

For what it's worth, I ban the regular Druid and use the Shapeshift variant specifically because it can't cast spells while "wild-shaped."

Why not just ban spellcasting in Wild Shape form then?

[Fouredged Sword]

The main combat draw for the shapeshift variant is to cast bite of the X and then shift. By level 20 you are looking at a cumulative +32 to strength when fighting.

The speaking issue can be bypassed by purchasing a pearl of speech. Items can be equipped once you shift into animal form. Another solution is to use permanent spells. There are several spells that once permanent will benefit your animal form (magic fang, ect.)

[Telonius]

Have you taken a look at the Aspects of Nature in UA/SRD? I like them a lot better than Shapeshift, with the possible tweak that their durations should be hours/level.

I've looked into them, but they don't really appeal to me. It seems fine, balance-wise, but it's almost like being a Cleric of a nature deity with a level or two of Totemist or some bonus Shape Soulmelds. Which would be totally fine if that's what you want to play; it just doesn't really feel like a Druid to me. (Totally subjective, I know).

[Diarmuid]

The reason the Shapeshift variant was attractive to me was that it comes online at level 1 and doesnt have use limitations. I'm OK with it being vastly less powerful than normal Wild Shape. I was just hoping that with a significant investment of resources that I might be able to overcome the no spellcasting.

DM is definitely right by RAW and my group, in general, is pretty low OP so I can understand not wanting to allow it. It's too bad as I really liked the concept for the character from the fluff side. I'm trying to decide if I can still make it work and simply "punt" the spellcasting for the most part.

Are there any other Druid variants that give up spellcasting?

[Grod_The_Giant]

The main combat draw for the shapeshift variant is to cast bite of the X and then shift. By level 20 you are looking at a cumulative +32 to strength when fighting.
If I remember correctly, both of those are enhancement bonuses - no stacking. It's a great variant for low level/low magic, but it has definite power issues. You might get some use out of a totemist or incarnate dip, since you already have issues with using items.

It's still a very fun acf, though: at will abilities usually are. It's a good emergency melee button, and a passable replacement for some stat boosting items.

[Troacctid]

It's not actually too big a deal, since you shift as a swift action, meaning you can always go back to human form to cast your spell, then shift right back to animal form the next round and continue claw-claw-biting. Of course, if this is your plan, it's probably a good idea to pick a race that can glide so that you won't fall out of the air if you try to cast while flying.

[Diarmuid]

The mechanic itself isnt bad at all for jumping in/out to cast. I just had a background/fluff concept that was going to be very well suited to wanting to be in shift form as much as possible due to potential social stigma/prejudice/etc.

[eggynack]

The level requirement isn't ideal, and it won't work if you have some non-flavor issue with wild shape, but one interesting option for this sort of character is fangshields druid substitution levels (CV, 40). This would enable your non-humanoid druid to add humanoid forms to their list of options, which I think would be perfect for a character that wants to blend in. It's not perfect by any means, but I think the intent of that ACF fits in really well to what you're trying to do with this character.

[Ruethgar]

There was a variant proposed by Tippy to get deadly hunter in place of spells instead of a loss of wildshape.