Riding Animals for Turkic Gnomes?

[tordenskjold]

I'm working on a a home-brew setting based on Russia in the 8th-9th centuries. In that I decided to include a people of gnomes living in the southern parts of the world, similar to Turkic and Eurasian steppe nomads. They live in a bio-dome similar to the real world Eurasian steppe, and are primarily nomadic pastoralists (except those who settled down to form a Khazar Empire analogue).

Now, of course gnomes would be too small to ride horses properly. This got me thinking about what animal would be optimal for a small-sized nomadic population to ride and herd.

Sheep seem an obvious herd animal, but what kind of animal might the gnomes actually ride on? I have been thinking about variants of antelope, such as the Tibetan one, fast little buggers:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1e/Atilope_du_Tibet.png/330px-Atilope_du_Tibet.png

There are a species of antelope native to the steppe, the Saiga, but those are so unfortunate looking I couldn't take them seriously as a mount:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/22/%D0%A1%D0%B0%D0%B9%D0%B3%D0%B0%D0%BA.jpg
Another option would be to go with something exotic, like a lynx or maybe tiger. But I'm actually pretty much at a loss.

Any animal interested gamers who could give some input on what kind of riding animal might be optimal for nomadic gnomes? Thanks in advance!

[weaseldust]

Siberian Ibex live in the right area, are about the right size, and look pretty intimidating. I'm not sure how fast they are. They tend to live in mountainous areas, but they could survive on the steppe.

Another option is a breed of dog. They could have dogs to ride, dogs to herd sheep, dogs to fight, and even dogs to eat when necessary. (I don't think riding a dog would be very comfortable, but it should be possible for a gnome if it's a big dog.)

Do the animals have to exist in our own world? If not, giant hares could be pretty neat.

I'd also suggest that gnome scouts could ride, or be carried by, very large eagles.


An alternative is that the gnomes could have wagons or sleds that are pulled by creatures too large to ride. Or they could ride cattle, but in some kind of howdah that could carry multiple gnomes.

[tordenskjold]

All good suggestions. I'm especially fond of the howdah idea, having gnome families pack all their stuff onto the backs of yak or similar large creatures. And the Siberian Ibex are perfect, they send a better message about the rider than most other animals could.

[Admiral Squish]

I've always been particularly fond of the idea of the Brixashulty from Races of the Wild. It's sort of the perfect all-purpose animal for a nomadic race. They're basically like mountain goats, but domesticated to maximize their utility, but you could base them off Ibex if you want something more intimidating. They favor grass but they can eat almost anything organic. As livestock, they produce wool-like fiber, milk, and can be slaughtered for meat, leather, and horn. They're friendly, calm, and loyal, so they're easy to train. They can serve as beasts of burden, civilian mounts, or combat mounts, even in rough terrain. They can even serve as livestock guards, kinda like llamas. Some are even more like pets.
Honestly, I've always wanted to make a mongol-esque horde riding around on them. One rider with two or three brixas would basically be entirely independent of supply lines.

[BootStrapTommy]

http://img.pr0gramm.com/2015/09/05/2d70102f66e406fa.jpg

[Corneel]

In view of the size variation in the existing horse and pony races (e.g. Shetland ponies & miniature horses on the smaller end), there is no reason your gnomes couldn't have bred ponies more convenient to their size.

[jqavins]

I've been reading Guns, Germs, and Steel (http://www.amazon.com/Guns-Germs-Steel-Fates-Societies/dp/0393317552) by Jared Diamond, so this is based on information from there. I'm less than half way though it - it's slow going - but I've covered chapters on domestication of plant and animal species.

Every domesticated species - plant and animal alike - are invariably altered from their wild ancestors to suit human (or gnome, elf, whatever in fantasy) needs, and many species are altered in a variety of different ways to better suit various needs. There only a few species that are suitable for domestication, because there are many factors, any one of which can rule a species out.

Based on those species that have been domesticated in the real world, and considering which of those seem like they might be successfully bred to make breeds suitable for riding, and are of appropriate size for gnomes, I'd say goats. In fact, coming from the point of view I'm taking (obviously not the only valid one) I think that goats are the only choice. That is, specially bred riding goats, as opposed to dairy, wool, or meat goats.

[tordenskjold]

In view of the size variation in the existing horse and pony races (e.g. Shetland ponies & miniature horses on the smaller end), there is no reason your gnomes couldn't have bred ponies more convenient to their size.

Thanks for the advice, and while it makes a lot of logical sense to use horses I specifically wanted to avoid doing so. The Gnome culture is supposed to have an exotic feel to it, and horse are just to mundane for that. The human culture of the setting is defined by its use of horses though, Russian and Polish cultures being the main influences.


I've been reading Guns, Germs, and Steel (http://www.amazon.com/Guns-Germs-Steel-Fates-Societies/dp/0393317552) by Jared Diamond, so this is based on information from there. I'm less than half way though it - it's slow going - but I've covered chapters on domestication of plant and animal species.

While I'm more than a little tired of Diamond's pop-science this particular point makes sense. Goats though will be more valuable bred for milk and hair as herd animals than as riding beasts. Thus the need for a specialized riding animal.

[Jendekit]

Just a suggestion, one thing you could do to make the gnomes more exotic is have them wear part of the skull of their first mount after that animal dies.

For example, the Orcs of my Avilatan setting are very mongol-based and ride supersized pumas. When a warrior's first mount dies (which would have been paired with them since they could walk) they take the lower jaw bone and wear it as a chin-guard. Thus giving rise to the false belief that orcs have tusks.

[jqavins]

While I'm more than a little tired of Diamond's pop-science this particular point makes sense. Goats though will be more valuable bred for milk and hair as herd animals than as riding beasts. Thus the need for a specialized riding animal.
Just one counterpoint to that, then I'll leave it alone. You'll have some animals that are used for dairy and some for wool, which may or may not be the same individuals (because wool and dairy breeds can be differentiated to substantial benefit but don't have to be) and some riding animals, presumably not the same individuals. So I don't see why the value of goats for the dairy and wool breed(s) means another breed of the same species shouldn't be the riding animals. They have to feed and care for all two or three of the heards any way you look at it, so what difference does ot make whether you've got A) one or two breeds of goats and a different species to ride, or B) two or three breeds of goat?

OK, but it seems you want a different species, which is fine, it's your world. As a last point from Diamond, it is unlikey (I'm not saying impossible) that any exotic real world species will prove domesticable, so your best bet would be something made up, like the previously mentioned brixashulty, with which I am personally not familiar.

[redwizard007]

What you really need is a Jackalope.

https://outsideperception.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/jackalope-riding.jpg

[tordenskjold]

Just one counterpoint to that, then I'll leave it alone. You'll have some animals that are used for dairy and some for wool, which may or may not be the same individuals (because wool and dairy breeds can be differentiated to substantial benefit but don't have to be) and some riding animals, presumably not the same individuals. So I don't see why the value of goats for the dairy and wool breed(s) means another breed of the same species shouldn't be the riding animals. They have to feed and care for all two or three of the heards any way you look at it, so what difference does ot make whether you've got A) one or two breeds of goats and a different species to ride, or B) two or three breeds of goat?

OK, but it seems you want a different species, which is fine, it's your world. As a last point from Diamond, it is unlikey (I'm not saying impossible) that any exotic real world species will prove domesticable, so your best bet would be something made up, like the previously mentioned brixashulty, with which I am personally not familiar.

Domestication is not an issue, we assume that all species can be domesticated (explanation: magic!) :biggrin:

As for the use of goats the problems I imagine would be of cross-breeding, which is hard to prevent with breeds of the same animal in an open herd. As soon as the riding-goats begin messing with the milk-goats you've got a problematic breed. The superior choice will be 1) Breeding one species for utilities of milk and hair, a fodder intensive process due to the need for surplus calories for a worthwhile amount of produce, and 2) Another species for riding, relatively fodder sparse due to not having any function above riding animal. This specialization makes breeding for a particular purpose much easier.

[Corneel]

OK, just throwing it in: what about (bactrian (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bactrian_camel)) dwarf camels? Maybe your gnomes have domesticated camels (originally for milk, a bit of wool and meat, and draft/pack animal) and bred smaller and smaller versions for riding?

[sktarq]

About the riding goats breeding with the hair goats
well sheep would work fine as well. Look at your European Mouflon (let alone an Argali) and tell me it wouldn't work as a base for a war mount-same creature we got the merino wool sheep from. So it is domesticatable, a primary grazer (which may be important if you are putting them in primary grasslands), doesn't interbreed with the goats, etc.