Why, Rich? [Archive] - Giant in the Playground Forums

littlebum2002

2015-09-11, 07:16 AM

That's why I didn't ask anyone.

The art upgrade isn't for you, it's for me. It's what I needed to keep going after 11 years of the same story by way of challenging myself, while still trying to stay within the initial parameters of the comic's signature look. If it slows the comic down in the process, then so be it. Instead of comparing it to the speed the comic would update if I hadn't upgraded, instead compare it to the speed the comic would update if I had lost all joy in creating it because I was unsatisfied with the finished product. (Hint: It would have been even slower.)

More to the point, OOTS is my creative work, not a service provided for you to which you can request changes. I don't make decisions about OOTS based on what readers ask for, I make decisions based on what I think is best—knowing that every such decision will alienate some readers. Maybe even most readers. I certainly don't spend any energy worrying about attracting new readers at this point, given that the start of the comic is an ugly impenetrable mess of references to D&D rules that have been replaced twice. So questions like this are not up for a vote; this is what OOTS looks like now, and you can talk about whether you like it or not, but it's not changing back.

And maybe that's bad for my business, but the nice thing about my business is that it's none of anyone else's business. If there are any financial repercussions regarding the art change, I'll worry about them. All you need to do is keep reading the comic (or not reading, if that's what you choose).

Hope this helps. I personally love the new art style; the fight between Belkar and Durklua-wolf would have pretty tame in the old style, and downright LAME in the old old style.

Mad Humanist

2015-09-11, 08:04 AM

I have to say i found the new style quite painful at the time. I did not complain at the time, as I accepted the Giant had every right to do it. Also the change came at the right time - an opening heartwaming scene at the start of a new book. I would not want to go back now.

Quild

2015-09-11, 08:13 AM

I, for one, immediately liked the new art upgrade.

I also noticed yesterday that it was here since more than one year. Time flies!

The Giant

2015-09-11, 08:23 AM

Why has the art style changed?

This has probably been asked a lot.

Given that the "new" art style is now a year and a half old, I have no idea what the context of this question is. Is it a complaint? An honest seeking of understanding? Did you not read the comic for two years so this is new to you? It feels vaguely disapproving, like you're begging me for an explanation because I've committed some otherwise unforgivable sin in your eyes, but I may be reading too much into it.

The answer is basically in the first paragraph of what littlebum2002 quoted me posting: I changed the art style because I wanted to challenge myself artistically and create artwork that I was proud of again. I went to art school; I was tired of being known as, "That guy who can't draw." And my thumb injury brought home how easily I could find myself in the position of never drawing again, so I wanted that back. I want to enjoy creating art while I can.

So, if this is some sort of vague complaint, I assure you that I couldn't possibly care less what literally anyone thinks about the new style. I like it, and I enjoy doing it despite (or perhaps because of) the increased difficulty. That's all that matters.

Kantaki

2015-09-11, 08:24 AM

I, for one, immediately liked the new art upgrade.

Me too. My reaction when we got the first comic in the new art style was a simple "Wow, that looks awesome!".

DavidBV

2015-09-11, 08:39 AM

So, if this is some sort of vague complaint, I assure you that I couldn't possibly care less what literally anyone thinks about the new style. I like it, and I enjoy doing it despite (or perhaps because of) the increased difficulty. That's all that matters.

So mean :smallfrown: you don't care even one little bit?

PS: I love it.

2015-09-11, 08:48 AM

I was tired of being known as, "That guy who can't draw."

Wow. I would never have thought people could think that of you. You did so much more with "simple" stick figures -- which I couldn't have drawn -- than I could imagine doing. That you did so much with what appeared to be so little increased rather than decreased my opinion of your abilities.

I will admit to being a bit put off by the style change at first... It looked "wrong" to me for some reason. It only took a couple-three strips for my eyes to adjust, though, and now I love it, as much as I love the increased range it's given you to show off your talent.

I don't care if you did it for you: I still get to appreciate it!

AvatarVecna

2015-09-11, 08:53 AM

Speaking nothing more than my own personal opinion, and in no way disparaging the older art styles, I can't (and don't want to) imagine how terribly clunky several action scenes would look in comparison, including the current fight between Roy and Durkon. I just looked back through the past couple pages, opened a page to the first few comics, and literally cringed at the idea of these complicated acrobatic combat techniques being performed in the old style. Going back 1000 comics, their limbs were literally lines. This new version makes them look...fuller, more human, and the style overall seems to convey speed and motion much better than before.

The old style is nice...but the new style is better.

Jaxzan Proditor

2015-09-12, 09:13 AM

I've been a fan of the art change since the beginning, and I think most people (at least on the forum) were as well. Especially once people stopped noticing the arms so much. :smallbiggrin:

littlebum2002

2015-09-12, 09:52 AM

I've been a fan of the art change since the beginning, and I think most people (at least on the forum) were as well. Especially once people stopped noticing the arms so much. :smallbiggrin:

I agree. At first I didn't like Roy's noodle arms, because he's supposed to be Superman strong, but then I remembered they're still an upgrade from sticks so I don't notice it anymore

King of Nowhere

2015-09-12, 12:26 PM

incidentally, i found an old quote by rich, and it got me thinking

I certainly don't spend any energy worrying about attracting new readers at this point, given that the start of the comic is an ugly impenetrable mess of references to D&D rules that have been replaced twice.

I wonder if modifying the first 50 strips, removing the most obscure rule jokes and introducing a bit better the characters, would be possible. i''m not talking about redrawing the same strip in the new art style, i'm talking about completely substituting the strips that have no plot to them. that could bring new readers, and it probably would require drawing no more than 20 strips.
of course, it all depends on whether rich is interested in doing it.

Zmeoaice

2015-09-12, 12:28 PM

I still don't like the outlined pitchfork hands. It's not very noticeable unless attention is drawn to them.

Porthos

2015-09-12, 12:38 PM

JustIgnoreMe

2015-09-12, 12:45 PM

Ironically enuf, this is touched upon in the all new commentary for the PDF version of DCF.
Darn it, do I have to buy the pdfs as well as the physical books now? You'll be telling me there are new bonus strips too :smallbiggrin:

Porthos

2015-09-12, 12:59 PM

You'll be telling me there are new bonus strips too :smallbiggrin:

No, no new bonus strips. But there is new commentary (let's say a page and a half in total) in DCF. That really isn't the selling point though...

*gets shoved away*

:haley:: Don't listen to him! That is the selling point!! But that's not all! You also get vector graphics! Blow up the PDFs to 1000% and see the art in its glorious stick drawing quality
:haley:: Plus you can take them where you like without having to lug a suitcase worth of book around.
:haley:: All this not for 20 dollars. All this not for 18 dollars. But all this for the low low price of 15 dollars!!!
:haley:: But, wait! There's more!!

*muffles Haley and pulls her aside*

Yeah. Sorry bout that. She's trying to make sure the rest of the PDFs get made. :smallwink:

As I said, these are no extra bonus strips, no. The PDFs themselves (their portability, lack of shipping costs, and their quality) are the main selling points. The added commentary is merely a nice little bonus for us double dippers. :smallsmile:

Peelee

2015-09-12, 01:14 PM

incidentally, i found an old quote by rich, and it got me thinking

I wonder if modifying the first 50 strips, removing the most obscure rule jokes and introducing a bit better the characters, would be possible. i''m not talking about redrawing the same strip in the new art style, i'm talking about completely substituting the strips that have no plot to them. that could bring new readers, and it probably would require drawing no more than 20 strips.
of course, it all depends on whether rich is interested in doing it.

I could see myself doing clean-up on the odd mouth here or there, but probably not a full redraw. That time would be better spent going forward. I guess I wouldn't rule it out, though.
I assume it holds true for altering them. Also, even if he didn't do it in the new style, it would be visually jarring to have anything other than exact (or similar enough - not close ot the current syle) old style (since all art evolves. This is very visible in strips like Calvin and Hobbes and Order of the Stick. Even fi the Giant wanted to redo the storyline at teh front, it'd either be done in the old style, or would look jarring in a collection. (good to instantly bad to slowly evolving better)

Murk

2015-09-12, 01:32 PM

Also, going along in this completely off-topic discussion: it's also a reason for the new introduction in DCF: a few pages that better introduce the cast and open with more accessable jokes.

Necris Omega

2015-09-12, 01:59 PM

Just to play... not even Devil's Advocate, but Devil's Psycho-analyst...

Maybe some find it jarring to try and build on an art style that's (arguably?) centered around simplicity? That simplicity could be a leading source of the "charm". Or perhaps they're of the mind "well, why bother keeping the stick figure style if you're going to start defining the arms and feet like this?" Stick-figure puritans? ...

Keep in mind, I'm just dwelling on the possibilities. Personally, I support the direction Rich has taken. OotS is already in a fundamentally minimalist art style - asking for "less" is just... Well, you're entitled to your wants, but for me, more is more. And more detail, and more definition is more. It's more OotS. And if that isn't your thing, well...

Rogar Demonblud

2015-09-12, 02:39 PM

Interesting. Shows how much I pay attention. I figured the art upgrade was related to all the other upgrades that happened after Rich's computer bestie decided to undertake that exciting new career as a heavy metal box.

King of Nowhere

2015-09-12, 03:05 PM

Ironically enuf, this is touched upon in the all new commentary for the PDF version of DCF.

Spoiler Alert: Rich isn't a fan of the idea of Lucasfying the first 100 strips. For his exact reasoning, and what he thinks of those strips today for ill and for good, you'd have to read it yourself to find out. :smallwink:

ah, well, as a guy who bought all the books, the board game with most expansions, a cup, a t-shirt, and left a tip on his kickstarter contribution, i feel i gave enough money without adding 15 more euros for a page of new commentary. Don't get me wrong, it was money well spent and rich deserved it, but i have to draw the line somewhere.

anyway, as far as i can find, rich said he isn't interested, but he didn't shut down that idea completely. it is something that he may want to do at some point. especially considering, with the 1590-odd pages he's drawn to date, adding twenty-odd to rework the beginning wouldn't take that long.
I would like it because I would like to be able to introduce oots to friends, but right now it's impossible unless they had played d&d 3.x

Jetstream

2015-09-12, 03:19 PM

Morquard

2015-09-12, 03:22 PM

ah, well, as a guy who bought all the books, the board game with most expansions, a cup, a t-shirt, and left a tip on his kickstarter contribution, i feel i gave enough money without adding 15 more euros for a page of new commentary. Don't get me wrong, it was money well spent and rich deserved it, but i have to draw the line somewhere.

anyway, as far as i can find, rich said he isn't interested, but he didn't shut down that idea completely. it is something that he may want to do at some point. especially considering, with the 1590-odd pages he's drawn to date, adding twenty-odd to rework the beginning wouldn't take that long.
I would like it because I would like to be able to introduce oots to friends, but right now it's impossible unless they had played d&d 3.xJust skip the first 50 or so comics. Once they meet the Linear Guild the story starts for real. Yes they won't get all the jokes. So what?

Or better yet, start them with Start of Darkness maybe? Then they're hooked already and won't even mind the odd strip they don't understand.

Though SOD does spoiler the story behind the Gate a little bit. Ah well...

Keltest

2015-09-12, 03:58 PM

What? Did the art style make some kind of significant, sudden change that I'm unaware of?

I mean, yeah, it looks different as you go through the archives. That's true of every comic ever.

Can someone point out the specific comic that introduces a large, substantive change all at once? Cuz random-walking through the archives I just see evolution of art style.

It seems the same with OotS as it is with Girls with Slingshots, with Something Positive!, with Schlock Mercenary, etc etc etc.

The very first comic in this latest unnamed book, that picks up with a flashback to Durkon's memories, is the newest iteration of the art style. Compared to other upgrades in the art, the changes are much more overt, such as sleeves existing.

For a while, many people were commenting on the noodle arms, but weve pretty much gotten over it. If Rich cares about my thoughts at all though, I still would suggest he try and find a way to show that Roy and/or Durkon has armor on his arms and legs, if he can.

NerdyKris

2015-09-12, 04:02 PM

What? Did the art style make some kind of significant, sudden change that I'm unaware of?

Really? You didn't notice the upgrade here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0947.html)? It was pretty significant. Their arms and legs are no longer undefined black lines, and the detail on armor and clothes increased by quite a bit.

Just skip the first 50 or so comics. Once they meet the Linear Guild the story starts for real. Yes they won't get all the jokes. So what?

Or better yet, start them with Start of Darkness maybe? Then they're hooked already and won't even mind the odd strip they don't understand.

Though SOD does spoiler the story behind the Gate a little bit. Ah well...

Because it's not just a matter of not getting some jokes. The jokes that aren't rule related are pretty bad. The story is very slow. It takes a lot of effort to power through to where Miko appears and any sort of plot starts up. And that's strip #200. It takes another fifty or so to get to Azure City. It's a lot to ask of someone to read 250 strips before the story really gets going.

And no, never suggest SOD to start with. It would make zero sense to someone who hasn't read the comic. The story assumes you already know about the gates and who Redcloak, Xykon, the Order of the Scribble, and the Sapphire Guard are.

Peelee

2015-09-12, 04:14 PM

The story assumes you already know about the gates and who Redcloak, Xykon, the Order of the Scribble, and the Sapphire Guard are.

It does not assume any such thing. One of my friends picked up the comic in the last week, and started with my copy of Start of Darkness. He's now powering through all of my books while he can (glad I got the PDF of Dungeon Crawlin' Fools, since I lost the original copy loaning it to a different friend). When I commented that it was a better read after the Battle for Azure City or so, he replied that he felt it fit perfectly as the first book to read. I disagree that it fits perfectly, but it's by no means a bad place to start, especially to someone getting over a thousand strips in at once, in addition to bonus strips and prequels.

He's also one of the 3 people what got me into D&D, in a manner of speaking, so he does greatly enjoy the 3.5 jokes, admittedly.

Porthos

2015-09-12, 04:32 PM

Because it's not just a matter of not getting some jokes. The jokes that aren't rule related are pretty bad. The story is very slow. It takes a lot of effort to power through to where Miko appears and any sort of plot starts up. And that's strip #200. It takes another fifty or so to get to Azure City. It's a lot to ask of someone to read 250 strips before the story really gets going.

I gotta say, I disagree with a lot of this. First of all, the plot shows up pretty much with the introduction of the Linear Guild. From that moment on, it is less and less "joke-a-day" and more a series of set pieces; some more interconnected than others.

Secondly, a good deal of what makes The Order of the Stick what it is, is its characterization. And that was apparent almost from Day One.

As for the jokes? Eh, matter of taste. So to is the issue of pacing. I mean this comic is many things, but "fast paced" is not one that is usually one that is brought up. :smallwink:

Now I am admittedly biased, as I came into the strip just before the Bandit Arc and I got to this comic from gaming circles. But I must admit to bristling slightly when I keep hearing people denigrate the first 100 strips (or, apparently now, the fist 250 strips). They may not be what OotS is today, but they are still very good comics, IMO.

I usually bite my tongue when the subject comes up, but this time I decided to speak up for them a bit. :smallwink:

Wardog

2015-09-12, 04:40 PM

Wow. I would never have thought people could think that of you. You did so much more with "simple" stick figures -- which I couldn't have drawn -- than I could imagine doing. That you did so much with what appeared to be so little increased rather than decreased my opinion of your abilities.

I think one of the things that demonstrates how good even the early OOTS art is is to compare it to some of the other web comics that people have done in the same style. OOTS might look simple, but its clearly a lot harder to do than one might think. Especially the little details that demonstrate emotion and expression.

I do remember a few years ago, there was hoo-ha when some other web-comic author (I forget who, and don't care) criticised both OOTS and xkcd for having overly-simplistic art (or "bad" or "lazy" or words to that effect), among other things*.

Suffice to say, no-one here took her seriously. Not least because here own art wasn't that good, and even if you don't like minimalist comics like OOTS/xkcd, there are loads of "detailed" or "realistic" style comics that do what she was trying to do much better. (Ok, her art was better than anything I could do, but that's not a particularly high standard, and if a genie granted me the ability to draw like any specific other artist, there are a lot of people I would chose over her).

* Including things that didn't make sense in light of her other criticisms and/or indicated she hadn't seen much of the works she was criticising.

Rogar Demonblud

2015-09-12, 05:28 PM

Actually, I'd say the best place to start is the strip where Elan summarizes the story with Summon Plot Exposition, since it pretty much tells you what you need to know going forward.

hroþila

2015-09-12, 06:04 PM

When I started reading, I'd never played proper D&D (I did play Neverwinter Nights and the arcade game Shadow over Mystara, but that's it). To this day, I've only played a couple of extremely short 3.5 games online that didn't go anywhere. I still started with strip #1 and didn't mind the rules jokes, even when I didn't get them. Many are enjoyable even as generic gaming jokes.

That said, I've never recommended OotS to any of my friends because I don't think they'll make it past the early rules-heavy strips. I've shared the Larry Gardener strip more than once, though.

I've often wondered how well Start of Darkness would stand on its own, though, because that I could see working for some of my friends, and it remains some of the damn best OotS material there is.

Ornithologist

2015-09-12, 08:01 PM

Obviously the only place to start is the current strip because everything else is crap by definition. /sarcasm

Unfortunatly, the best place to start in my opinion is the intro in DCF's print/PDF. It gives enough context and story to the comics until the Linear guild show up.

If there were to be any change from the current set up, I would reccomend just adding the prologue from DFC to the website. then leave everything else as is. That would be the only print only material that I would ever add to the website.

King of Nowhere

2015-09-12, 09:45 PM

I gotta say, I disagree with a lot of this. First of all, the plot shows up pretty much with the introduction of the Linear Guild. From that moment on, it is less and less "joke-a-day" and more a series of set pieces; some more interconnected than others.

Secondly, a good deal of what makes The Order of the Stick what it is, is its characterization. And that was apparent almost from Day One.

As for the jokes? Eh, matter of taste. So to is the issue of pacing. I mean this comic is many things, but "fast paced" is not one that is usually one that is brought up. :smallwink:

Now I am admittedly biased, as I came into the strip just before the Bandit Arc and I got to this comic from gaming circles. But I must admit to bristling slightly when I keep hearing people denigrate the first 100 strips (or, apparently now, the fist 250 strips). They may not be what OotS is today, but they are still very good comics, IMO.

I usually bite my tongue when the subject comes up, but this time I decided to speak up for them a bit. :smallwink:

oh, i personally agree, the first strips were still good and are bad only compared to what oots is now.
Problem is, they are a different genre. they were a gag-a-day strip with little overall plot before the linear guild showed up. and the jokes were heavily gaming-oriented. ok, it was a pretty good comic strip, but still.
Now, oots is an epic story set into a world based on the rules of gaming. The point is, epic story. This has developed later. I'm sure there's plenty of people who would appreciate the epic story but would never start it because they don't like the gaming gags or the general concept of comic strips, no matter how good they can be.

Murk

2015-09-13, 03:47 AM

Indeed, I liked the early strips for their nonchalance, their no-worry-attitude. It was all just very gamey, just some dudes strolling around a dungeon killing green guys. Even in retrospect the difference with the stress and responsibility in the current strips is very cool.

The DeathKnight

2015-09-13, 04:59 AM

What i find funny, when the art style first changed in 947, i really thought it made the characters look a bit silly, and was worried that the art upgrade was going to make the comics come out slower, but i think over time, you get used to it, and begin to appreciate the art, and actually get excited when you see how old characters look in 'HD' :smalltongue:

I can't wait to see if/how Rich changes the art style in the future now, now that we know he can change it, and even if we don't initially like it, we know we can get used to it, and actually respect it.:smallsmile:

Kruploy

2015-09-13, 06:23 AM

Why, Poor?

Glodart

2015-09-13, 12:23 PM

At first, I didn't even notice the art change!
I don't really pay that much attention to the art, I focus on the story and dialogue

Mr Fluffy

2015-09-14, 05:51 AM

Well, I havn't really read the forum post for a day now, and... So many replies, so many opinions.

1. OMFG RICH RESPONDED AFSFASFIWFFWJFWEADWD
2. I liked the stick figures. I feel they are more representative of the series, as in the FAQ, Rich stated that he thinks the art brings the right air of humor into the strip, whatever the heck that means.
3. I got my answers. Thank you, fellow users of the internet for providing me with the information I requested.

And, no. This isn't actually a complaint. It's just a question, to be honest. A regular, mundane question.

Veya

2015-09-14, 06:41 AM

Given that the "new" art style is now a year and a half old,
Wait, what? it has been that long already? it... certainly doesn't feel like it, not for me at least.

allenw

2015-09-14, 11:45 AM

While everything Rich said is no doubt "real-world" accurate, I'm among a small group of people who think that the "Art Upgrades" are, in-story, also a result of the gates being destroyed. Either Snarl-energy is leaking through to make things "more realistic", or else the Gates were constraining the fabric of reality to be "less realistic". Note that the Snarl, in its most recent appearance (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0945.html), looks more three-dimensional than anything else I recall seeing in the strip.
This may or may not also have to do with why the pre-Gate flashbacks are in crayon; but since they *are* in crayon, they may not be an accurate representation of pre-Gate reality and appearances.

Bulldog Psion

2015-09-14, 12:10 PM

Well, I sure like the new art. I can't remember what my reaction to it was initially -- I think it was a little weird for me, but I didn't mind it, IIRC, though I can't really swear to that.

Anyway, I now love it. Wouldn't have it any other way. Excellent job on the art upgrade, Mr. Burlew! :smallsmile:

Lissou

2015-09-14, 06:35 PM

Actually, I didn't like the intro in DCFs. I think if I had started with that instead of the online strip, I probably would have stopped reading. I have never played D&D but the jokes aren't that difficult to understand, and because it was obviously a gag-a-day comic, I was fine clicking "next" without thinking I was committing to anything. I could stop at the next page if I felt like it. With the intro in DCFs, it feels like you'll have to read at least a few pages before you can ever start to decide if you want to keep reading or not. That would have discouraged me right away, I think (then again, it's also in a book, so you already know what to expect when you're reading it).

I never felt those intro strips added that much, and they felt to me like an obvious "I'll put stuff at the beginning after the fact", which I disliked because I already found it jarring to switch from the intro to the early strips. I can't imagine how much more jarring it would be now, ten years later, if Rich remade some pages and put them at the beginning. It could work as some sort of bonus for people who've already read the whole thing, but as a first introduction... I don't think it would work.

As for the style, I like it a lot. I didn't actually notice the difference in the character design at first. I definitely noticed the difference in background and how the comic was bigger. When people pointed out the arms though, I thought they were fine. I like the style better than the one the comic started with, but I don't want previous pages changed. It just feels too much like rewriting history. The old pages weren't perfect, but that's how they were at the time, and to me, that's how the comic is meant to be enjoyed, with the whole evolution of the story as well as the art.

littlebum2002

2015-09-14, 06:50 PM

I always thought it would be fun if, after the strip is finally over, have a bonus strip of Elan dreaming or something, and it's a recreation of the very first strip in the latest style. That might be fun, but anything more would be unnecessary and kind of a waste of time

Maybe you have an epilogue, showing everyone 5 years later or something, and at the very end you see Haley and Elan together (I hope!), then Elan drifts off to sleep and starts dreaming of their first dungeon together...

Edit: or, even better, it's done in the Julio Scoundrel style from the sketches in the book (which, for those who don't have it, is drawn very life like). I mean, I'm sure Rich would love nothing better than to spend a month drawing a gag strip.:smallwink:

Jay R

2015-09-14, 07:28 PM

I certainly don't spend any energy worrying about attracting new readers at this point, given that the start of the comic is an ugly impenetrable mess of references to D&D rules that have been replaced twice.

As long as Pathfinder is around and popular, those rules, and therefore those rules jokes, are still current.

Mr.Bigglesworth

2015-09-14, 07:55 PM

I just assumed Rich was racheting up the level of detail in the art to match the depth of the plot . I do seem to notice more subtle hints . I'm hoping by the end of the story we'll be in full blown manga, but that's just wishful thinking .
I started reading about 3 years ago and I've learned you just gotta have faith in the Giant. You may not understand why he does something at the time but there is a reason . He's taking us all on a fantastic ride, you gotta sit back, relax and enjoy the trip

Malfarian

2015-09-14, 11:58 PM

Mr Fluffy

2015-09-15, 06:16 AM

I need to learn how to stop replies coming in...

:smallfurious:

Doctor West

2015-09-15, 06:39 AM

I need to learn how to stop replies coming in...

:smallfurious:

Don't post your question on a public forum?

Peelee

2015-09-15, 08:16 AM

Don't post your question on a public forum?

Twenty points to Doctor West!

Mr Fluffy

2015-09-16, 12:54 AM

Don't post your question on a public forum?

Well, I created this post... It's just that I want replies to stop flooding in.

Douglas

2015-09-16, 01:01 AM

Well, I created this post... It's just that I want replies to stop flooding in.
As in stop people from posting here, or stop getting tons of notifications about it? If the latter, I'm sure someone can point you to the relevant setting. If the former, sorry, but you don't control what other people do here, even in threads you start.

Trillium

2015-09-16, 04:40 AM

While I like new art style, I can understand the sentiment. Had I stumbled upon OOTS now, instead of earlier, I'm not sure I'd pick it up, especially if it was all made in the new style.

littlebum2002

2015-09-16, 07:09 AM

Well, I created this post... It's just that I want replies to stop flooding in.

I'm guessing you want to unsubscribe to the thread? In that case, it's under "thread tools" at the very top.

If, instead, you mean that this thread has run its course and now it's derailed? Welcome to the forum. Thread derailment is kinda a thing here.

Peelee

2015-09-16, 09:25 AM

If, instead, you mean that this thread has run its course and now it's derailed? Welcome to the forum. Thread derailment is kinda a thing here.

I'm a tenth-level Vice President thread derailer!

Ornithologist

2015-09-16, 10:34 AM

Don't forget the prestige class: Tangent Master

They're capable of turning any thread 90 degrees, at will.

DataNinja

2015-09-16, 11:10 AM

Don't forget the prestige class: Tangent Master

They're capable of turning any thread 90 degrees, at will.

No, no, you're thinking of the Perpendicularity Shaper base class. Tangent Masters work in radians. :smallbiggrin:

Ornithologist

2015-09-16, 08:23 PM

Your right! Of cos I messed up the prestige class. Trig was always a bad sin for me. The problems always got me turned around.

Father Miles

2015-09-16, 11:12 PM

Really? You didn't notice the upgrade here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0947.html)? It was pretty significant. Their arms and legs are no longer undefined black lines, and the detail on armor and clothes increased by quite a bit.

Because it's not just a matter of not getting some jokes. The jokes that aren't rule related are pretty bad. The story is very slow. It takes a lot of effort to power through to where Miko appears and any sort of plot starts up. And that's strip #200. It takes another fifty or so to get to Azure City. It's a lot to ask of someone to read 250 strips before the story really gets going.

And no, never suggest SOD to start with. It would make zero sense to someone who hasn't read the comic. The story assumes you already know about the gates and who Redcloak, Xykon, the Order of the Scribble, and the Sapphire Guard are.

Believe it or not, I noticed it, but didn't realize it only went back to 947. In re-reading the strips of course I had noticed that the art had steadily improved over time, especially in terms of more detailed backgrounds. I just assumed Rich got more engaged in doing the strips as time went by, and/or got better at it or both. Although I'd say I can't imagine anyone complaining, my wife who does not read the strip just thought the "stick figure" motif was funnier. But I like the new style far better of course as it fits a "real story" better than a "gag".

rodneyAnonymous

2015-09-17, 12:30 AM

Although I'd say I can't imagine anyone complaining...

One thing I liked about the simple art was that it could be made very quickly. (Not that I want to put the genie back in the bottle--Rich's stated motivation for the art upgrade isn't something appropriate to argue with--but now you can probably imagine someone complaining.)

Czhorat

2015-09-17, 07:19 AM

The first strips are FUN.

what do people want? It is enjoyable to read, dnd or no dnd, it's fun!

I've tuned to new people onto oots this past month, they love it, because it's fun!

THANK YOU GIANT!
Mal

Yes, the first strips were fun. Then it got deeper and more interesting.

I compare OOTS to Terry Pratchett's Discworld saga; The latter started as a fairy shrill one-note parody of sword-and-sorcery tropes, and eventually grew into something whihc, while still very funny, was quite well-written serious fantasy literature. OOTS, likewise, has kept the humor at its heart while delving into serious matters and giving us some genuinely touching moments.