Adapting Sunless Citadel for 5 Players

[SovelsAtaask]

Pretty soon I'm going to be running a game of the old 3e module The Sunless Citadel. I may end up having 5 players instead of the standard 4, but how do you go about balancing encounters towards that? And also advice converting this module into 3.5e would be appreciated. I've never ran a game of 3.5 before, so I have no idea what the difference between 4 and 5 adventurers would be.

[Xervous]

Adding players is doing just that, adding players. Team PC will have more bodies on the field which means more actions per round, more damage/spell output, etc. It's relatively easy to compensate for this by adding more enemies. Bosses should be toughened up a little but also think about adding minions alongside the bosses, simply pumping the boss up to the point where it can present a reasonable challenge for the players usually leads to one/twoshotting which just isn't fun for most players.

[ksbsnowowl]

You may find this helpful:
http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=14113.0

Also, I converted all the stat blocks to 3.5; PM me an e-mail address and I'll send you a text document.
Note that the listed Jump DC to get over the low wall in rooms 31 and 33 is completely wrong. See the above linked campaign journal; I list the proper DC there.

[Coidzor]

Biggest change I can think of offhand is the way DR works.

Grabbing an encounter calculator and then putting in each encounter against a 4 man party and then checking the ratings that has and then adding more creatures to the encounter to equal or approximate that rating after increasing it to a 5 man party would be the most direct thing beyond eyeballing an extra mook or two per fight that's not a solo gimme anyway.

May look at the rooms too and decide if you want to alter any of their dimensions to accommodate the increased number of mooks+party members.

[SovelsAtaask]

Thanks for the journal, that should help me out a lot with this game. I'll read over that when I have the time. We ended up with just 4 players instead of 5.

[justiceforall]

You should also check the amount of stat points your players have, the party composition, and how good they are at optimising.

Sunless was originally created on the assumption that you'd have a party of a wizard, a fighter, a rogue and a cleric with 25 points. I've played it through many, many times, but the last time was with a party of 5 players with only 25 stat points and varying levels of optimisation (so lets call the group "average"). Even with five people (six if you count the animal companion, which was easily better than the fighter...) it was still quite challenging in parts.

[SovelsAtaask]

Well we don't have a wizard. What we do have is a Crusader, Ranger, Rogue, and Favored Soul. I'll have to make a few changes to adapt to that, and I think I'll be cutting the shadows from the game.

[justiceforall]

Yeah that fight was pretty insane. Basically we all just tried to stop it from getting at the sorcerer whilst he threw 50 spells at it, and the rogue attacked it with our only magic weapon he got off the Kobold leader.

If your favoured soul has Magic Weapon as a spell, you can probably leave the encounter in.

[ksbsnowowl]

Ways the (by that time) 3rd-level PC's can deal with the Shadow in the bottom level of the Sunless Citadel.

1) The magic morningstar they got off of Balsag the Bugbear.
2) The potion of Fire Breath they can gain from one of the fountains.
3) The Favored Soul spamming it with cure spells.
4) The scroll of Cure Light Wounds from the Dragonpriest's tomb.
5) Erky Timbers hits the shadow with a Cure spell, or turns it with Turn Undead.
6) Any spell (other than instantaneous conjurations that aren't [healing]) the Favored Soul knows.
7) Supernatural Reserve Feats, such as Fiery Burst (although the Favored Soul is gimped and can't take any at 3rd level).

Also, note that the adventure specifies very clearly that the shadow will not follow after the PC's once they leave the room. They can retreat to develop a new strategy, or just run past it and leave it behind.

[SovelsAtaask]

Well that's good to know. I'm new to this so I wasn't entirely sure what all would be good against a shadow.

Currently, I have a human peering down into the ravine to see what's there. However, I have no idea how far down the first ledge is or if there would be any issue seeing it. I'm assuming she should be fine if the sun's out, but does anyone know how far of a drop it is from the top to the first ledge in case a player somehow falls down into it.

[Mr Booze]

Well that's good to know. I'm new to this so I wasn't entirely sure what all would be good against a shadow.

Currently, I have a human peering down into the ravine to see what's there. However, I have no idea how far down the first ledge is or if there would be any issue seeing it. I'm assuming she should be fine if the sun's out, but does anyone know how far of a drop it is from the top to the first ledge in case a player somehow falls down into it.


From the top to the first ledge it's 50ft. The adventure states that it's completely dark, but you could rule that around noon they can see the ledge (1) at least for a short time.

In the campaign I DM, we have just finished playing through this adventure and our Ninja was killed by the shadow in 2 rounds, the rest of the group fled, so be careful!

ksbsnowowls campaign journal, tips and conversions have helped me a lot. Maybe he can convinced to write up a handbook?