Need a spell list

[Nasagi]

Can someone help me build a decent spell list for a level 5 EK with a 19 int? I'm having trouble deciding what spells are keepers and why. All help is appreciated!

[Kane0]

Shield and haste are musts when you can access them, as would be fireball if your INT is high enough.
A lot of spells dont actually need saves/attacks and thus dont need int, so they are all good picks. Buffs often fall into this category.

Edit: a 19 int means you can freely pick the attack / save spells if you wish. Scorching ray and fireball are classics, just be careful of your limited spell slots if blasting, your spells would probably be better served as buffs amd utility unless you really need to drop a bunch of minions.

[Ninja_Prawn]

Well let's look at your options.

Int 19 means your spell attack is very good for level 5. You don't have to avoid spells that rely on rolls.
You have 2no cantrips and 4no 1st-level spells, one of which can be from any school.
I don't know your race or what feats you're taking, but I'll assume you don't get any extra spells from them.

Selected Cantrips
Blade Ward becomes useful once you hit level 7, because then you can combine it with a weapon attack to get both attack and defense into the same action.
Fire Bolt has the biggest damage die. It's also got a 120' range, which can be useful if you're a melee weapon person.
Light is useful if you don't have darkvision and none of your other party members have it. Otherwise it's not that important.
Minor Illusion is hugely versatile. Never a bad pick.
Shocking Grasp is good for suppressing reactions.

1st-Level Abjurations and Evocations
Burning Hands is your only real AoE option at this point (yeah, yeah, Thunderwave. Whatever). It gives you something you can't get otherwise.
Magic Missile is nice because it auto-hits, but the damage is not great. Could be useful in some scenarios.
Protection from Evil and Good is pretty nice, but you don't really need it if you've got a Cleric or Paladin in the party.
Shield is an amazing spell. It never gets old.

Other 1st-Level Spells
Disguise Self could be useful if you're playing that sort of character.
Feather Fall is useful if you don't have a wizard in the party.
Find Familiar is hard to argue against. I'd pick that most of the time, unless you're getting it from Magic Initiate.
Ice Knife is a good attack spell, if EE is allowed in your game.
Silent Image is useful if you don't have Minor Illusion. It's probably not worth having both on an EK.
Sleep isn't worth it for you, because by 5th level, it's already falling behind in usefulness and you don't have the high-level slots available to boost it up.

[djreynolds]

What about color spray, more for a get outta dodge tactic?

[ImSAMazing]

What about color spray, more for a get outta dodge tactic?

Like sleep, it isn't that useful at lvl 5.

[weaseldust]

What about color spray, more for a get outta dodge tactic?

I'd recommend Expeditious Retreat for that purpose, though a Fighter might prefer to use it to get into dodge more quickly instead.

I'll also just note that Mage Armour is easy to overlook because it seems like a Fighter doesn't need it, but if you are already focused on dexterity over strength, you don't have the Defence fighting style, and you have proficiency in Stealth, it might be worth thinking about.

[Ninja_Prawn]

I'll also just note that Mage Armour is easy to overlook because it seems like a Fighter doesn't need it, but if you are already focused on dexterity over strength, you don't have the Defence fighting style, and you have proficiency in Stealth, it might be worth thinking about.

Not a bad shout, but as an EK you have so have so few spell slots that you've got to ask yourself whether it's worth burning 1/3 of them (at level 5) every morning.

It might actually work better to dip warlock for the Mage Armour invocation, if you're going that way.

[Yagyujubei]

shield is 100% must take. It's so insanely good honestly I would almost just save all 3 of my first level slots for just using it.

Find familiar gets you by far the most bang for your buck aside from that. grab an owl and get a flying scout with advantage on perception sight checks that can use its turn in battle to give you advantage. plus it's fun to RP having a familiar.

personally I wouldn't take any damaging spells in 1st level slots either. none of them will out damage your melee atk so you may as well go utility imho. featherfall can be a total lifesaver. longstrider, jump or expeditious retreat can give you some tasty mobility. Disguise self, comprehend languages or charm person can be great for out of battle use. fog cloud or grease can be decent CC

in general I will tell you this. the only two spells that are pretty much required are haste and shield like others have said, and generally taking NON dps spells will be much more useful than taking the dps option (fireball and lightningbolt are the only flat out dmg spells I would consider as a EK).

EDIT: btw this all depends on what type of fighter you're planning on paying. a DEX archer EK will take different spells than a STR polearm master EK

[Nasagi]

shield is 100% must take. It's so insanely good honestly I would almost just save all 3 of my first level slots for just using it.

Find familiar gets you by far the most bang for your buck aside from that. grab an owl and get a flying scout with advantage on perception sight checks that can use its turn in battle to give you advantage. plus it's fun to RP having a familiar.

personally I wouldn't take any damaging spells in 1st level slots either. none of them will out damage your melee atk so you may as well go utility imho. featherfall can be a total lifesaver. longstrider, jump or expeditious retreat can give you some tasty mobility. Disguise self, comprehend languages or charm person can be great for out of battle use. fog cloud or grease can be decent CC

in general I will tell you this. the only two spells that are pretty much required are haste and shield like others have said, and generally taking NON dps spells will be much more useful than taking the dps option (fireball and lightningbolt are the only flat out dmg spells I would consider as a EK).

EDIT: btw this all depends on what type of fighter you're planning on paying. a DEX archer EK will take different spells than a STR polearm master EK

I'm a STR Greatsword fighter, thanks for all the tips guys. I've looked at Find Familiar for that advantage on attack rolls, but I'm unsure exactly how it works 100%. Can someone clarify a little bit? I think i've just misread it or something

[Ninja_Prawn]

I'm a STR Greatsword fighter, thanks for all the tips guys. I've looked at Find Familiar for that advantage on attack rolls, but I'm unsure exactly how it works 100%. Can someone clarify a little bit? I think i've just misread it or something

1. Familiar takes Help action
2. ???
3. Advantage!

[Yagyujubei]

bacially, a familiar can't attack, but they can use an "aid" action instead to help out one player, which gives you advantage.

think of it (in the owls case) as the owl swooping in and clawing at the enemy's face for just a second or two as you go in to strike. "my familiar readies it's action so that when i move in to strike they swoop down to block the enemies vision and then swoop out of harms reach"

note that if your DM thinks this is cheesy (it is) and gets fed up with it they can easily just kill the familiar.

but even without that the scouting applications are really great. and the spell lasts so long...its alot of bang for your buck as far as 1st level spell slots go

[Ninja_Prawn]

note that if your DM thinks this is cheesy (it is) and gets fed up with it they can easily just kill the familiar.

Yep. As a DM it makes me yearn for the days when the PC permanently lost a point of Constitution every time their familiar died...

[SharkForce]

i would add enlarge/reduce as a 2nd level option eventually. not for the damage boost, you silly person (although it does double as a damage boost, if you're really desperate for a tiny amount of added damage); you wanna grapple or shove a huge creature? you have 2 options: beg someone to polymorph you into a giant ape, or be able to cast enlarge. plus, you'd be surprised sometimes by how appealing it is to be smaller. you can thank me when everyone else is crawling through the kobold warrens praying that they don't get ambushed from behind while there isn't enough room to turn around, and you don't have a care in the world. also, remember that sometimes the best use of this spell will be on unattended objects. enlarge can jam a door shut, and has no size restrictions; you can jam a portcullis in place or a giant-sized door, for example. you can make something 8 times as heavy (possibly exceeding the load-bearing capacity of the floor), shrink a heavy object so that you can carry it, and so on.

having said that, i would suggest talking with your DM about how stupid it is that a 90% fighter class (that is, it's about 90% fighter and 10% "wizard") would get the evocation school when really every fighter that ever existed would be about a million times happier with transmutation instead. the ability to buff your fighter side is several times better than the ability to cast offensive spells several levels later than a single-classed caster could. on occasion, you may consider fireball to be not a total waste, but as you've likely noticed from all the responses, the vast majority of the time the spells you'd like to have are transmutation. possibly with a little bit of illusion mixed in (blur and mirror image are pretty handy).

(abjuration is fine, though; counterspell is another good option when you get level 3 spells with that 19 int. but that's a while off).

if you can get permission to take abjuration and transmutation as your two main schools, then i would definitely consider some of the spells people have listed here.

[Ninja_Prawn]

having said that, i would suggest talking with your DM about how stupid it is that a 90% fighter class (that is, it's about 90% fighter and 10% "wizard") would get the evocation school when really every fighter that ever existed would be about a million times happier with transmutation instead.

Slightly off-topic, but when I saw that the EK's schools are Abjuration and Evocation, my head immediately saw them as Final Fantasy-style Dark Knights who use magic to scour their foes from the battlefield.

[Nasagi]

Slightly off-topic, but when I saw that the EK's schools are Abjuration and Evocation, my head immediately saw them as Final Fantasy-style Dark Knights who use magic to scour their foes from the battlefield.

that actually sounds kinda awesome. Might have to work with that for the char concept. If you don't mind me borrowing it

[Jetstream]

Slightly off-topic, but when I saw that the EK's schools are Abjuration and Evocation, my head immediately saw them as Final Fantasy-style Dark Knights who use magic to scour their foes from the battlefield.

My head is just screaming "Link" at the top of its... lungs...?

I lost control of that metaphor.

[Ninja_Prawn]

My head is just screaming "Link" at the top of its... lungs...?

Yeah... um, you should probably get that looked at. Like, by a doctor. :smalltongue:

And Nasagi, it's hardly my place to say whether or not you can borrow it. The Final Fantasy dark knight has been around... wow, longer than I have.

[acid_ninja]

I'd also take a look at Absorb Elements from EE. It's like shield, but for spell and energy damage (like breath weapons), plus it even gives you a little damage boost. That spell seems like it was made for EKs.

At higher levels, Darkness is actually not bad for a 2nd level Evocation (and since arcane lock is the ONLY abjuration spell at 2nd level, you're stuck with Evocs). It can be used like a fog cloud and you don't have many uses for concentration - magic weapon being the other when you get it.

[Nasagi]

Okay guys. I think I've come up with a decent spell list based off your suggestions so far and I'd like a little imput on it. Again, thanks for everything :)

Cantrips
Blade Ward
Fire Bolt

1st Level
Burning Hands
Shield
Absorb Elements or Magic Missile (Need to double check with DM about EE spells)
Find Familiar (Thinking Owl or Raven)