Pathfinder Not really sure what to think of the Medium [Archive]

View Full Version : Pathfinder Not really sure what to think of the Medium

Novawurmson

2015-09-12, 06:21 AM

I've been looking over the Occult Adventures classes quite a bit lately, and I'm a little fascinated with the Medium. I'm not quite sure how to say this, but the class is...precarious balanced. It's soooo close to being truly powerful, but it always seems like it's just a tiny bit out of reach.

*Any 1-6th spells on the wizard/cleric spell list, changeable every day.
*"Sneak attack" that automatically makes someone flat-footed (ignoring uncanny dodge) 1/day/creature.
*Greater polymorph at will.
*Trade your standard for any ally's standard or your swift for an ally's attack (imagine multiple lower-level mediums and a high level spellcaster/melee)
*Auto-negate one attack or spell used against you.
*Move+full attack
*Bonus combat feats re-chosen daily, counting as a full BAB class
*Bonus attack that stacks with haste

The spirit bonuses are pretty sweet by themselves, especially because they're untyped bonuses (scaling up to +6):

*+X to attack and damage rolls
*+X to AC
*+X to Fortitude/Reflex/Will saves
*+X to spirit surge bonus (i.e. at 1d10+6 at 20 to any check after you know it has failed - also can be used with any ally within 30ft.).
*+X to ALL skill checks/specific stat skill checks

But with all that said, the base stats of the class are so mediocre it's hard to know how to optimize it. D8 HD, 4+Int skills, 4th level spellcasting, and almost all of the cool stuff doesn't start until high levels, when it's not nearly as good. Besides, very few of the awesome powers can be taken in conjunction with each other.

I feel like it needs just one good shove to be a really good class. Something like one of the following:

*6th level casting baseline (with Archmage/Hierophant just adding extra spells).
---This one would probably have to be an archetype or GM fiat.
*A way to permanent have two spirits going at once, or a way to temporarily have two spirits going at once at a low level.
---This could be a feat chain. For example - Spirit Focus (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/spirit-focus)/feat that always grants the bonus of that spirit/feat(s) that always grants the lesser/intermediate/greater powers.
*A way to switch out spirits in the middle of the day without losing spirit bonus and spirit surge (looking at you, spirit dancer).
---This could be a feat/feat chain. I.e. prerequisite: Feat tax. Benefit: 1/day you can lose access to the spirit you are currently channeling to pick a new one. All influence is transferred to your new spirit. Make choices as normal.

As for now, though, the only way to really do it right seems to be full melee champion or switch it out every day and have fun in a low optimization party.

Ssalarn

2015-09-12, 03:45 PM

Yeah, the one thing the Medium manages to do really well consistently is be a melee brute, which is kind of weird given the class' theme, but not too bad. On the Archmage front, at least the Mesmerist spell list is solid ;P
As you note, he shines really well in lower op groups where his flexibility won't be completely outshone by the other characters. I suspect its strength will continue to grow over time better than most other classes though; remember Mark Seifter intended the Medium to have like 52 starting spirits before they cut his allowed page count. I haven't given up hope on the full spirit list appearing in a supplement sometime soon.

Serafina

2015-09-12, 04:00 PM

The Medium really gets a lot more interesting if you take the Spirit Dancer Archetype.
If you do that, you basically give up long-term utility (casting spells with long casting time, skills that take longer) for the versatility to switch between spirits for each encounter.

You'll still be a beatstick in combat encounters, though you might also use ranged or thrown weapons.
But out of combat - well, a minute after each fight you can heal (Hierophant). In non-combat encounters, you can either provide spells (Archmage, Hierophant) or skills (Trickster).

That's an actual highly versatile character and great in groups that need more utility, because you can provide that while still fighting pretty well.

Other than that, the normal Medium really shines in campaigns with a lot of downtime. If you crawl into a dungeon and are stuck with your spirit, you're only a Fighter with less feats, or a 2/3 caster with barely any class features.
But if you are in a city-campaign where you have to do something different each day? Then you can swap between bodyguard, socialite, thief or mage as needed.
And at high levels, you'll basically have 9th-level Wizard spellcasting, 8th-level Cleric spellcasting and any skill you want during downtime, which would be great in campaigns that feature a lot of it.

Afgncaap5

2015-09-12, 04:55 PM

You can tell I'm not Pathfinder player when I do a double take at a caster-class' d8 hit die being called "mediocre". :smallwink: Sounds like a good class to me, though. Not overpoweringly awesome, but very capable in a pinch, I'd guess.

Kurald Galain

2015-09-12, 05:08 PM

The Medium really gets a lot more interesting if you take the Spirit Dancer Archetype.

So if I understand correctly, a "normal" medium picks one spirit each morning and has it active all day; whereas a spirit dancer picks six spirits in the morning, has none of them active, and can enter a "dance" for a few rounds to activate one of them.

Yes? Because the class is a bit on the verbose side :)

Eldaran

2015-09-12, 09:01 PM

So if I understand correctly, a "normal" medium picks one spirit each morning and has it active all day; whereas a spirit dancer picks six spirits in the morning, has none of them active, and can enter a "dance" for a few rounds to activate one of them.

Yes? Because the class is a bit on the verbose side :)

Yep, it's like Rage except you get the spirit's effects instead.

Spirit Dancer definitely gives the class a lot more flexibility, I find the only problem with the class is they should have received Trance of the Three (or Spirit Troika for Spirit Dancer) at a lower level. Having to wait until 15th level to make interesting combinations of spirits really sucks.

Kira_the_5th

2015-09-12, 10:09 PM

I swear I was up until 5 in the morning the other night trying to figure out how to get a Medium to work for my friend's game, and I ran into the exact same problem. Eventually, I was able to work out what might be a decent way of doing it, even if it didn't work at all for the character I was trying to make.

Like Ssalarn said, you build with the intent of only ever channeling the Champion spirit, and basically play like a psychic paladin. Pick up Scribe Scroll at level 1, as well as maybe Toughness or something to retrain into Power Attack once you have +1 BAB. Then you spend all your days adventuring as a fighter, and spend all your downtime scribing scrolls, since you have access to functionally every single spell from 6th level down. Pick up Craft Wand at level 5, max out your UMD checks, and achieve Tier 3 via becoming the Batman Fighter with access to any spell the party needs.

Ninjaxenomorph

2015-09-12, 10:27 PM

I have someone in my game playing a caster-focused Medium. My group is either new people (U!Rogue and barbarian), set on playing a certain character (investigator), or averse to playing casters, but trying it out anyway (wizard going technomancer and aforementioned medium). The two most experienced players I was trying to say just take one for the team and make a arcane/divine, and one player decided to take it further and double down on the utility caster of Hierophant/Archmage focused medium.

Kurald Galain

2015-09-14, 12:33 PM