How to make EXTREMELLY DIFFICULT lycantrope for lvl 8 party?

[Pinjata]

Monster should not deal MUCH dmg, but be EXTREMELY durable, able to kill average lvl 8 character in 5 turns (land 3 shots that deplete PCs hp if unhealed).

Here are "stats" from 2e:

- lycantrope
- affected only by +4 weapons(or type specific that act as +4 vs lycantropes)
- 66 hp
- Regen: 33hp per turn
- very high AC for its CR

If anyone remembers Baldurs' gate ist Karoug (https://www.google.si/?gws_rd=ssl#q=karoug+werewolf).

thanks

[Aetol]

The MM's werewolf already has immunity to bludgeoning/piercing/slashing damage from non-magical, non-silvered weapons. Since at level 8 your player probably have magical weapons, you might want to give it at least resistance to B/P/S damage from magical non-silvered weapons. Regeneration would not hurt either. Maybe roll these two into one feature, such has "regains all HP lost to non-silvered weapons at the start of its turn" (and still immunity to non-magical non-silvered weapons).

It also has only 58 HP and +1 natural armor, you'll need to buff these with additional HD and more armor (does natural armor still work if it's wearing a suit of armor ?).

Consider giving it class levels, Barbarian would be a good fit (Rage gives resistance to B/P/S damage, even from magical or silvered weapons, or spells ; Unarmored Defense lets you add its CON modifier to its AC).

If you want it to be able to 3-shot a level 8 PC too (around the 60 HP mark) you'll need to buff considerably its natural weapons (currently 2d4 and 1d8) and give it more attack per turn (currently 1 claw + 1 bite).

[PracticalM]

You need to give it some minions that can distract the player. Dire versions of whatever lycanthrope you are using.
Giving it a lieutenant (normal lycanthrope powers maybe) would also help.

Giving your BBEL a Death Ward effect would be unexpected (especially with regeneration). Just have it drop but not actually die and then regenerate while the party deals with the minions.

[-Jynx-]

I second the minions suggestion. If you're sticking to werewolves there is no reason why they wouldn't naturally travel in packs. Add an alpha as your BBEG and a handful of pack mates. Give them pack tactics (giving them advantage on their attacks when attacking near one another) give them a boost in HP (maybe another 15ish HP) a boost in AC (maybe a 15 AC?) I don't really like the idea of giving them a regen so I'd table that.

Perhaps give the alpha wolf (your main BBEG) a little more HP, better AC than the already improved werewolves and maybe give him a howl ability that either bolsters the other werewolves like a bardic inspiration or a debuff on the PCs.

[JoeJ]

I think tactics will do more than stats to make this encounter tough. To start with, don't let the PCs corner it in its lair. In fact, don't even give it a lair; it lives in the woods with its pack, sleeping wherever it happens to be.

Living like a wild animal attuned to its surroundings, it becomes aware of the party while they're miles away, and rather than wait to be found, it starts hunting them. It attacks their camp at night, doing damage and then disappearing into the darkness. Both it and its pack should be able to move fast enough to be far away by dawn. But not so far that they can't do the same thing again the next night.

The creature and its pack engage in guerrilla warfare; driving off mounts, ruining supplies, killing or badly injuring sentries, and then fleeing. It sets deadfalls and snares in their path. If the PCs prove especially resilient it might even set the forest around them on fire. It never stands and fights. If possible, have it start as an apparently random encounter; the PCs weren't looking for a lycanthrope, and don't even know that it's out there until it starts coming after them. (Bonus points if they're traveling with a bunch of commoners they just rescued from a dungeon somewhere.)

[Aetol]

and maybe give him a howl ability that either bolsters the other werewolves like a bardic inspiration or a debuff on the PCs.

Werewolf-flavored Bard levels ?

[-Jynx-]

Werewolf-flavored Bard levels ?

That's right. Intimidating amirite?

[Pinjata]

The MM's werewolf already has immunity to bludgeoning/piercing/slashing damage from non-magical, non-silvered weapons. Since at level 8 your player probably have magical weapons, you might want to give it at least resistance to B/P/S damage from magical non-silvered weapons. Regeneration would not hurt either. Maybe roll these two into one feature, such has "regains all HP lost to non-silvered weapons at the start of its turn" (and still immunity to non-magical non-silvered weapons).

It also has only 58 HP and +1 natural armor, you'll need to buff these with additional HD and more armor (does natural armor still work if it's wearing a suit of armor ?).

Consider giving it class levels, Barbarian would be a good fit (Rage gives resistance to B/P/S damage, even from magical or silvered weapons, or spells ; Unarmored Defense lets you add its CON modifier to its AC).

If you want it to be able to 3-shot a level 8 PC too (around the 60 HP mark) you'll need to buff considerably its natural weapons (currently 2d4 and 1d8) and give it more attack per turn (currently 1 claw + 1 bite).

This is what i'm looking for. Can you suggest me some actual numbers?

Also: NO MINIONS!
Also nr. 2: We take into account, he is cornered.

[Shining Wrath]

Can you make it a lycanthrope vulnerable to something else besides silver - cold iron, or mithral? Throw your players a curve.

A grapple ability where it pins the PC to the ground and then gnaws on them won't add damage per round but it will be scary.

[Ace Jackson]

This is what i'm looking for. Can you suggest me some actual numbers?

Also: NO MINIONS!
Also nr. 2: We take into account, he is cornered.

well, based on a d8 hit die, assuming a standard plus five hp per level up, plus a con score of 14, that is 59 HP, earlier you said you wanted him to be able to knock an eighth level character out in three hits/five turns, that means each hit has to deal, on average over the three hits, 19 and two-thirds hp of damage. Multiattack for two claw attacks at 1d10 + 5 each (+8 to hit) and that's an average of 21 damage per round [assuming both attacks hit, and on purely average die damage of (5.5 + 5)*2]. If you will insist on no minions, the hp will have to go through the roof, as a completely off hand estimate, 150 hp. Prof bonus at level 8 should be around +4 IIRC, and I'd expect to see at least 16 on the party's attack stats, so an AC 17 should be about a 50% hit rate. If he's cornered, you might give his claw attacks knock back rather then a prone inducing, mauling bite, as no one honestly wants to fight from a corner. I might give regen 10 hp per round unless silvered damage is received, and I'd let the PCs deplete their SP counts into a sling if they had to. Come to think of it, we don't know anything about this level 8 party we are supposed to be helping you build an encounter for. Do any of them have silvered weapons already? What classes are they?

[Aetol]

More importantly, do they have magical weapons ? I suppose at level 8 they have, but if they don't they'll have a hard time damaging even the base lycanthrope, since only spells will work.

[Pinjata]

Splendid!

Will soon brew something up.

As for the party, I do not yet know what will party consist of, so let's juts assume 4 lvl 8 guys standard setup (ftr, clr, wiz, rog) with one magical weapon each.

[Soular]

Splendid!

Will soon brew something up.

As for the party, I do not yet know what will party consist of, so let's juts assume 4 lvl 8 guys standard setup (ftr, clr, wiz, rog) with one magical weapon each.

Hey Pinjata.

If you want a really memorable fight with a boss level creature, look no further than AngryDM's concept of "Paragon" bosses.

It is a very interesting read that takes a bit of work from the DM (not a lot though), and creates a tiered enemy encounter that taxes the party without being too lethal. Best of all, it creates a boss that really feels like a boss. The boss becomes a tougher opponent that can be tailored to favor the melee fighters during one stage, and the casters the next. I recommend that you take a few minutes to read at least the first part of his series to see what he is on about.

These can be considered D&D houserules. But they are remarkably well thought out houserules that add a whole new level of challenge and excitement for the players.

http://theangrygm.com/return-of-the-son-of-the-dd-boss-fight-now-in-5e/

[Soular]

To give some idea of how the "Paragon" boss works I cobbled together this idea.

Treat the lycanthrope as two separate individual creatures sharing one stat block.

So maybe you have the human form, and the were-form.

These are AngryDM's rules for Paragon Monsters:


Paragon Hit Points. The creature has multiple pools of hit points, each of which is tracked separately. All damage and healing must be completely applied only to one pool of hit points. One pool of hit points must be completely reduced to zero hit points before any damage is applied to another pool. When a pool of hit points is reduced to zero, all ongoing conditions and effects affecting the creature end immediately. After a pool of hit points has been reduced to zero, it cannot receive any healing until after a long rest. If all pools of hit points have been reduced to zero hit points, the creature is killed.


Paragon Actions. The creature gains one complete turn in each combat round, including one reaction between each turn, for each pool of hit points it has above zero. When a pool of hit points has been reduced to zero, the creature loses one turn each round thereafter.

Here is my suggestion, assuming werewolf:

Paragon Werewolf
Armor class 11/12 in hybrid form
Hit Points: 58/58
Speed: 30/40 in hybrid form
Challenge Rating 3
Normally CR3 is 700 experience, but since the werewolf counts as 2 creatures he counts for 1050 exp (1400 exp worth of challenge).

When the fight starts, the lycanthrope is in his human form. He gets 2 full turns each combat round based on having two separate health pools. As if the party was fighting two distinct monsters at the same time. All damage done to him depletes only the first pool, nothing can touch the second health pool until all of the first pool of hit points is gone. If you want to make him a tad tougher, you can give him better armor and/or a sword and board to raise his AC.

After the party defeats this first form, the lycanthrope drops his weapon and transforms into his hybrid form. Cinematically you can explain this as the party has destroyed most of his armor and crippled his human form. All status effects on the lycanthrope drop as well, as he is treated as a brand new creature. He loses one of his turns per round, so now he behaves exactly as a normal werewolf starting out at full hit points (58).

This gives the players the feeling of actually bringing down a dangerous foe. They can see the results as they slowly grind him down and weaken him, and makes the event feel much more epic than just beating on a werewolf until it croaks.

[Flashy]

Hey Pinjata.

If you want a really memorable fight with a boss level creature, look no further than AngryDM's concept of "Paragon" bosses.

These can be considered D&D houserules. But they are remarkably well thought out houserules that add a whole new level of challenge and excitement for the players.

As someone who did this with two scarecrows paragoned together as a mummy I can confirm that this technique is excellent.

[Aetol]

Normally CR3 is 700 experience, but since the werewolf counts as 2 creatures he counts for 1050 exp (1400 exp worth of challenge).

Don't you mean it's worth 1400 XP by itself, and 2100 as an encounter ?

The line in the statblock should be :

Challenge Paragon 3 (1400 XP), 2 Creatures


Also, you should read the follow-up article (http://theangrygm.com/elemental-boogaloo/). It would be more thematic to give the Paragon Fury trait (begin with 1 turn, gain one when you lose an HP pool) to your boss werewolf.

[Soular]

Don't you mean it's worth 1400 XP by itself, and 2100 as an encounter ?

The line in the statblock should be :

Challenge Paragon 3 (1400 XP), 2 Creatures


Also, you should read the follow-up article (http://theangrygm.com/elemental-boogaloo/). It would be more thematic to give the Paragon Fury trait (begin with 1 turn, gain one when you lose an HP pool) to your boss werewolf.

I was just throwing the idea out there, it's up to the OP to decide if and how he wants to implement it.

If you have a firmer grasp of the concept than I do, you should make a complete monster and statblock. That will give the OP something he can use, and will provide others (like me) a better understanding of how to implement it.

I have read the articles, but due to time constraints imposed by all my RL obligations, have not had time to sit down and really digest them.

[Human Paragon 3]

I also immediately thought of Angry DM's paragon boss article, and really recommend you use it, as it sounds like exactly what you need. It adds durability and punch to the monster without making it overwhelming.

If you don't like the idea of a human form and a hybrid form, you could do a wolf form and a hybrid form, or some other combination (were-form and Super-Were-Form?)

[MaxWilson]

Monster should not deal MUCH dmg, but be EXTREMELY durable, able to kill average lvl 8 character in 5 turns (land 3 shots that deplete PCs hp if unhealed).

Here are "stats" from 2e:

- lycantrope
- affected only by +4 weapons(or type specific that act as +4 vs lycantropes)
- 66 hp
- Regen: 33hp per turn
- very high AC for its CR

If anyone remembers Baldurs' gate ist Karoug (https://www.google.si/?gws_rd=ssl#q=karoug+werewolf).

thanks

Easiest way would be to make him actually a wizard who is wearing a were-creature as a Magic Jar suit. E.g. if he Magic Jar'ed a weretiger, he'd have the weretiger's regular 120 HP, plus AC 15 (Dex 15 + Mage Armor) plus Shield for AC 20, or Counterspell to shut down enemy spells, plus spells. Because he can Polymorph himself using weretiger abilities, the players may not even realize he's more than just a wizard until they try the standard "gank the wizard first" tactics and he fails to die after the first few blows. Meanwhile he's unloading Cone of Cold, Hold Person V, Chain Lightning, and Evard's Black Tentacles on the PCs, and when they try to engage him he Misty Steps away.

And if he is Lucky, then even if the PCs "kill" the weretiger, the true wizard has a good chance of taking over one of their bodies instead.