Building A Paladin of Nature?

[Palanan]

Is there a way to build a paladin who serves a deity of nature in Golarion, or more broadly the concept of nature and wilderness?

I'm new enough to Pathfinder that I'm not sure if this is feasible. If so, what would you put into a sixth-level build?

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[legomaster00156]

Yes, you can. Paladins can actually worship any god, as they don't have the Cleric's "one step away" alignment restriction. There are even allusions to extremely Lawful Paladins of Asmodeus. As such, worshiping a Neutral god like Gozreh will cause no issues.

[Ninjaxenomorph]

Hmm. The LG god Erastil comes pretty darn close, since his portfolio includes family, farming, hunting, and trade, with particular focus on small farming villages. Less 'druid' and more 'ranger' I'd say.

[Psyren]

As others have said, Erastil is a LG nature deity so he's a good choice for this. The Divine Hunter archetype will then let you be a paladin with a ranger-y feel.


Yes, you can. Paladins can actually worship any god, as they don't have the Cleric's "one step away" alignment restriction. There are even allusions to extremely Lawful Paladins of Asmodeus. As such, worshiping a Neutral god like Gozreh will cause no issues.

Asmo "paladins" are not actually Paladins, they are Inquisitors and Warpriests IIRC.

[Spore]

Asmo "paladins" are not actually Paladins, they are Inquisitors and Warpriests IIRC.

The Hellknight prestige classes are there for a reason and while multiclassing doesn't work as great in PF, they're the closest you can go to a "Blackguard".

[Psyren]

The Hellknight prestige classes are there for a reason and while multiclassing doesn't work as great in PF, they're the closest you can go to a "Blackguard".

The funny thing about prestige classes is that you generally have to start as something else before you can enter them :smalltongue:

[DarkOne-Rob]

Why not use the VMC for Druid? That would be flavorful and could combine decently.

[grarrrg]

Why not use the VMC for Druid? That would be flavorful and could combine decently.

Paladin VMC-Druid may not be allowed.
To take VMC-Paladin you must follow the Code of Conduct, which specifically includes "being Lawful Good".
VMC-Druid "must abide by the druidic code of conduct—respecting nature, not teaching the Druidic language to outsiders, not wearing metal armor, and so on."

The question is whether or not Druid "code" requires Neutrality (the "and so on" part).
Paladin's have a specific section called a "Code of Conduct" in their write up. Druids do not.

I'd lean towards Alignment being considered part of their "code" due to the Ex-Druids section: "A druid who ceases to revere nature, changes to a prohibited alignment, or teaches the Druidic language to a nondruid loses all".

But unless someone has something more concrete, it's still iffy one way or the other.

[Spore]

Why not use the VMC for Druid? That would be flavorful and could combine decently.

While a cool idea I don't think the VMC druid pairs well with the Paladin at all. I would really prefer to see a Nature/Elemental themed VMC Oracle (you are already a chosen fighter for law and good, why not be a chosen for nature too?). Another option is a VMC Summoner (possibly with homebrewed SNA instead of SM). The small eidolon could be another natural ally you get.

[legomaster00156]

Asmo "paladins" are not actually Paladins, they are Inquisitors and Warpriests IIRC.
Well, there was actually official information regarding actual, legitimate Paladins of Asmodeus in Council of Thieves. It was apparently retconned out later by James Jacobs.

[Psyren]

Well, there was actually official information regarding actual, legitimate Paladins of Asmodeus in Council of Thieves. It was apparently retconned out later by James Jacobs.

It was also officially retconned in Inner Sea Gods, which came later and therefore trumps.

Council of Thieves' actually came out all the way back when PF was still just a 3.5 third-party setting, and had a few other things that Golarion no longer has (e.g. psionics.)

[Selion]

Is there a way to build a paladin who serves a deity of nature in Golarion, or more broadly the concept of nature and wilderness?

I'm new enough to Pathfinder that I'm not sure if this is feasible. If so, what would you put into a sixth-level build?

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Maybe you could do a VMC with the sorcerer with the verdant bloodline.

At six level basically you must drop a feat to take:
Tanglevine (Sp): At 1st level, as a standard action, you can create a 15-foot-long, animated vine that springs from your hand. This vine lasts for 1 round and can be used to make a single disarm, steal, or trip combat maneuver, using your sorcerer level plus your Charisma modifier in place of your normal CMB. You can use this power a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Charisma modifier.
Your next level you must also drop a feat to take:
Photosynthesis (Ex): At 3rd level, you feed upon nature’s raw essence. Your need to eat and sleep is reduced as if wearing a ring of sustenance, and you gain a +2 racial bonus on saving throws made against poison and sleep effects. At 9th level, these bonuses increase to +4.

Otherwise you can biclass to a verdant sorcerer and at higher levels take either the mystic theurge prestige class or the eldricht knight (selecting themed spells).
In both cases (mystic theurge and eldricht knight) you need for feats to reduce armor penalty to cast arcane spells.

EDIT: it you like dwarves the stonelord archetipe would fit well.

[Ninjaxenomorph]

I again cite Erastil; he's actually one of the big 'nature' gods in Golarion. He's not exactly untamed wilds, but that kinda goes hand in hand with playing a Paladin, there has to be some connection to civilization (the 'Lawful' part of their alignment).

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Ninjaxenomorph
The LG god Erastil comes pretty darn close, since his portfolio includes family, farming, hunting, and trade, with particular focus on small farming villages. Less 'druid' and more 'ranger' I'd say.


Originally Posted by Psyren
As others have said, Erastil is a LG nature deity so he's a good choice for this.

Erastil does seem to be the best choice here, at least from what I can find. I don't have Inner Sea Gods, so I may be missing more of a true-neutral wilderness-y figure, but Erastil should work well enough.

That said....


Originally Posted by Psyren
The Divine Hunter archetype will then let you be a paladin with a ranger-y feel.

You know, I really want to like this archetype, because it's vaguely thematic, but for a sixth-level build it doesn't offer too much.

There's a bonus feat to help with archery prerequisites, there's a little amp to the paladin's bow, and I personally like the option for distance healing at sixth level, which would be almost a mini-capstone in this case.

But none of that is remotely nature-related, apart from the fact that you can use the benefits out in nature, and I'm hard-pressed to be really enthused about this one. The paladin archetypes in the APG are a little underwhelming, and Heroes of the Wild is no use whatsoever, so I'm not sure where to turn.

[ThinkMinty]

What's missing from a Lawful Good Ranger, exactly? Just curious, as I do like the Paladin of Nature concept.

[Arc_knight25]

Ranger Archetype that works for this concept it the Divine Tracker. You get the Warpriests Blessing ability and the Favoured weapon.

As for a Paladin Archetype you could go with Holy Guide. Get knowledge geography and survival. along with Favoured terrain and Teamwork feats that can be shared with party.

[Psyren]

You know, I really want to like this archetype, because it's vaguely thematic, but for a sixth-level build it doesn't offer too much.

There's a bonus feat to help with archery prerequisites, there's a little amp to the paladin's bow, and I personally like the option for distance healing at sixth level, which would be almost a mini-capstone in this case.

But none of that is remotely nature-related, apart from the fact that you can use the benefits out in nature, and I'm hard-pressed to be really enthused about this one. The paladin archetypes in the APG are a little underwhelming, and Heroes of the Wild is no use whatsoever, so I'm not sure where to turn.

Honestly - a bow, and medium armor and being able to tell one plant from another are really all you need to feel "nature-related," imo. I agree though, this doesn't have a great deal to distinguish it nature-wise, and you'd have to be a pretty smart pally to have the skill points necessary.

I think you should chat with your GM about letting you combine Divine Hunter and Holy Guide - that should get you the "Palaranger" you're looking for. The only thing that makes them incompatible is the 6th-level Mercy.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by ThinkMinty
What's missing from a Lawful Good Ranger, exactly?


Originally Posted by Arc_knight25
Ranger Archetype that works for this concept [is] the Divine Tracker.

Thanks, but ranger doesn’t really fit what I had in mind.


Originally Posted by Psyren
I think you should chat with your GM about letting you combine Divine Hunter and Holy Guide - that should get you the "Palaranger" you're looking for.

Heh. A palaranger who smites in some fashion, like the Cyran Avenger (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20050707b&page=2), could be something to consider.

But combining two archetypes from different classes probably won’t fly in this case, and Holy Guide strikes me as extremely meh. That may be in part because I don’t know much about teamwork feats, which I tend to skip over because I’ve never played in a group where there’s that much coordination between players. :smallsigh:


Originally Posted by Psyren
As others have said, Erastil is a LG nature deity so he's a good choice for this.

Reading a little more, I’ve come across Gozreh, who seems to be closer to the force-of-wild-nature aspect I was aiming for. Not sure if a paladin of Gozreh is feasible on the face of it, but I like the notion.

Erastil and Gozreh seem to be about it nature-wise for Golarion, which is quite a difference from the Forgotten Realms, where I’ve done most of my 3.5 gaming. There’s a whole slew of nature divinities in the Realms: Mielikki, Chauntea, Sylvanus, Malar and Lurue, off the top of my head. Gozreh seems to be the closest match to Sylvanus, which is the general feel I was going for.

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[legomaster00156]

... As such, worshiping a Neutral god like Gozreh will cause no issues.
I did mention Gozreh... in the very first reply to this thread, actually... :smallconfused:

[Palanan]

*forehead smite*

So you did, and somehow I completely missed it. My apologies. :smallredface:

[Ninjaxenomorph]

Urgathoa covers plagues, which... some druids deal in. But she's NE. Cernunnos is CG, but he's basically an elven version of Erastil. But I said before, 'paladin' and 'untamed wilderness' don't really play well together.

[Psyren]

But combining two archetypes from different classes probably won’t fly in this case, and Holy Guide strikes me as extremely meh. That may be in part because I don’t know much about teamwork feats, which I tend to skip over because I’ve never played in a group where there’s that much coordination between players. :smallsigh:

"Different classes?" They're both Paladin archetypes, aren't they?

I don't use Teamwork feats either but there are some good ones out there, and HG's ability means you don't have to depend on other party members taking them.



Erastil and Gozreh seem to be about it nature-wise for Golarion, which is quite a difference from the Forgotten Realms, where I’ve done most of my 3.5 gaming. There’s a whole slew of nature divinities in the Realms: Mielikki, Chauntea, Sylvanus, Malar and Lurue, off the top of my head. Gozreh seems to be the closest match to Sylvanus, which is the general feel I was going for.

Yes, Gozreh is the most "pure nature" deity. But you're mistaken, there are several other nature deities in Golarion - or at least, deities venerated by nature-based worshipers. Shelyn is NG and her portfolio of Beauty encompasses lots of nature - flowers springing up where she walks, bluebirds and butterflies nesting in her hair, crystal clear waterfalls inspiring poets and artists etc; she also grants a Druid domain (Air.) Torag holds dominion over Earth, and gets along with Erastil above all other deities. Desna supports wanderers, which definitely appeals to rangers and some druids as well. Sarenrae grants Fire and numbers "sun druids" among her followers. Even Irori has a few druids in his clergy, typically the ones that focus heavily on wildshaping and emulating animals..

[grarrrg]

"Different classes?" They're both Paladin archetypes, aren't they?

Paizo needs a better thesaurus.
Divine Hunter (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/hybrid-classes/hunter/archetypes/paizo---hunter-archetypes/divine-hunter) Hunter
Divine Hunter (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/paladin/archetypes/paizo---paladin-archetypes/divine-hunter) Paladin

This is far from the first time they've named something the exact same thing.

[Arc_knight25]

Thanks, but ranger doesn’t really fit what I had in mind.

Just trying to put idea's out there. May have had a similar feel.

Much like this next few idea's.

Try a Cavalier. Going Order of Green Or Order of the Beast(ACG) to get that nature feel.
(Order of the Land isn't all that great and is more small community)

Cavalier Archetypes that would fit the bill would be Luring Cavalier(Range attacks)
Also Beast Rider to get a more exotic and powerful mount can be taken with Luring Cavalier.

Another Cavalier Archetype is the Huntmaster, which is very underwhelming. Pretty much get more animal companions that would be like speed bumps. You divide your effective Druid level among the animals.

[Psyren]

Paizo needs a better thesaurus.
Divine Hunter (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/hybrid-classes/hunter/archetypes/paizo---hunter-archetypes/divine-hunter) Hunter
Divine Hunter (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/paladin/archetypes/paizo---paladin-archetypes/divine-hunter) Paladin

This is far from the first time they've named something the exact same thing.

While I agree that every archetype being unique would be ideal, it's not like the context shouldn't have made it clear to Palanan that I meant Paladin in both cases. After all, it's a paladin thread, and you can't combine archetypes from different classes.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Arc_knight25
Ranger Archetype that works for this concept [is] the Divine Tracker.

I may have confused this with the paladin’s Divine Hunter. I’ve been reconsidering the ranger after a couple folks suggested it.


Originally Posted by Psyren
...it's not like the context shouldn't have made it clear to Palanan that I meant Paladin in both cases. After all, it's a paladin thread, and you can't combine archetypes from different classes.

Give me a little leeway, please, for not being as intimately familiar with Pathfinder as yourself and many others here.

People have suggested a whole slew of base classes already, including ranger, druid, warpriest, oracle, summoner and even sorcerer, as well as two Divine Hunters and a Divine Tracker, so it’s possible for someone relatively new to the system to be confused. The context wasn’t nearly as clear to me as it was to you.


Originally Posted by Arc_knight25
Cavalier Archetypes that would fit the bill would be Luring Cavalier(Range attacks)
Also Beast Rider to get a more exotic and powerful mount can be taken with Luring Cavalier.

Interesting, thanks. I’ll have to take a look at that one.

[Psyren]

Give me a little leeway, please, for not being as intimately familiar with Pathfinder as yourself and many others here.

People have suggested a whole slew of base classes already, including ranger, druid, warpriest, oracle, summoner and even sorcerer, as well as two Divine Hunters and a Divine Tracker, so it’s possible for someone relatively new to the system to be confused. The context wasn’t nearly as clear to me as it was to you.

I apologize if I came off harsh as that wasn't my intention. I should have linked it as grarrg did but was being lazy.