Multiclass Sorceror/Warlock Question

[Jrandom]

Can you convert Warlock spell slots into Sorcery Points (SPs)?

If so, could you then take a short rest to regain the Warlock spell slots, while keeping the SPs?

[SharkForce]

yes and yes.

the only limitation is that you can't have more sorcery points than your level, and there's a dev ruling somewhere that says you can't use sorcery points to give yourself more spell slots than your regular maximum... so go ahead and use it after a few fights, but no 8-short-rest shenanigans in place of sleeping during your downtime to build up a ton of extra spell slots.

[Jrandom]

Thank you.

[Corey]

there's a dev ruling somewhere that says you can't use sorcery points to give yourself more spell slots than your regular maximum...

Really?

You can't create any spell slots until you've used the same slots first??

[Aetol]

there's a dev ruling somewhere that says you can't use sorcery points to give yourself more spell slots than your regular maximum...

Where ?

I've seen a (very, very cheesy) build based on that. Take 8 short rests instead of long rests, regain Warlock slots each time, convert them to Sorcerer slots, never sleep so you don't lost these. Spend a few month of downtime between adventures, come back with a bazillion spell slots.

[SharkForce]

Really?

You can't create any spell slots until you've used the same slots first??


Where ?

I've seen a (very, very cheesy) build based on that. Take 8 short rests instead of long rests, regain Warlock slots each time, convert them to Sorcerer slots, never sleep so you don't lost these. Spend a few month of downtime between adventures, come back with a bazillion spell slots.

before i spend any time doing a basic google search on your behalf, are either of you going to be meaningfully swayed by the opinion of the devs, or am i just going to find it only to be informed that it doesn't matter what they think, you were going to play it the way you wanted anyways?

[Corey]

Where ?

I've seen a (very, very cheesy) build based on that. Take 8 short rests instead of long rests, regain Warlock slots each time, convert them to Sorcerer slots, never sleep so you don't lost these. Spend a few month of downtime between adventures, come back with a bazillion spell slots.

And the solution to that, I thought it was agreed, was through the exhaustion mechanism.

[Corey]

before i spend any time doing a basic google search on your behalf, are either of you going to be meaningfully swayed by the opinion of the devs, or am i just going to find it only to be informed that it doesn't matter what they think, you were going to play it the way you wanted anyways?

I'm sorry. I understood you to be talking from knowledge, not speculation. I regret the error.

[Aetol]

before i spend any time doing a basic google search on your behalf, are either of you going to be meaningfully swayed by the opinion of the devs, or am i just going to find it only to be informed that it doesn't matter what they think, you were going to play it the way you wanted anyways?

I'm not playing that, mind you. I was just greatly amused by the sheer cheesiness of the build.

[SharkForce]

*shrug* i don't overly mind digging up the answer...

as long as there's a point to doing so. if nobody cares about the answer, i certainly don't care enough to go track it down.

[Kryx]

Collection of tweets:
1 point for 1st level Warlock spell (https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/524720108392808448)
They disappear on a long rest: Crawford (https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/577698209113337856), Mearls (https://twitter.com/mikemearls/status/516804562809012224). Not long resting would incur exhaustion in most games (no penalties by RAW).

Rules on Max sorcery points:
You can never have more sorcery points than shown on the table for your level. You regain all spent sorcery points when you finish a long rest.
So let's try not to be so rude next time, Corey.


Obviously the original idea is incredibly cheesy and not RAI.

[HoarsHalberd]

Collection of tweets:
1 point for 1st level Warlock spell (https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/524720108392808448)
They disappear on a long rest: Crawford (https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/577698209113337856), Mearls (https://twitter.com/mikemearls/status/516804562809012224). Not long resting would incur exhaustion in most games (no penalties by RAW).

Rules on Max sorcery points:
So let's try not to be so rude next time, Corey.


Obviously the original idea is incredibly cheesy and not RAI.

I think the original idea specified non-sleeping races like Elves and Warforged to get around the exhaustion, so they could rest for four hours without having it become a long rest.

[Kryx]

I think the original idea specified non-sleeping races like Elves and Warforged to get around the exhaustion, so they could rest for four hours without having it become a long rest.

Elves still long rest:

Trance. Elves don’t need to sleep. Instead, they meditate deeply, remaining semiconscious, for 4 hours a day. (The Common word for such meditation is “trance.”) While meditating, you can dream after a fashion; such dreams are actually mental exercises that have become reflexive through years of practice. After resting in this way, you gain the same benefit that a human does from 8 hours of sleep.

Warforged:

Living Construct. Instead of sleeping, you enter an inactive state for 4 hours each day. You do not dream in this state; you are fully aware of your surroundings and notice approaching enemies and other events as normal.

I'd personally rule that these 4 hours are akin to a long rest. That is not covered by RAW, but Warforged is s a playtest after all.



In the end it comes down to playing the game as intended or playing in a strict RAW crazy land. Thankfully that crazy land died for official purposes in 5e.

[Corey]

Collection of tweets:
1 point for 1st level Warlock spell (https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/524720108392808448)
They disappear on a long rest: Crawford (https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/577698209113337856), Mearls (https://twitter.com/mikemearls/status/516804562809012224). Not long resting would incur exhaustion in most games (no penalties by RAW).

Rules on Max sorcery points:
So let's try not to be so rude next time, Corey.


Obviously the original idea is incredibly cheesy and not RAI.

What you quoted is exactly what I would have guessed the state of Sage Advice was.

According to the Sage Advice you just quoted, one could take (for example) 5 short rests, creating new spell slots from each one by the conversion from warlock spell slots to sorcery points to sorcerer spell slots. Then one could go out in the afternoon and evening and cast spells accordingly.

I got snippy when it was claimed as established (with no discernible evidence) that you can't do that.

[Corey]

Elves still long rest:


Warforged:


I'd personally rule that these 4 hours are akin to a long rest. That is not covered by RAW, but Warforged is s a playtest after all.



In the end it comes down to playing the game as intended or playing in a strict RAW crazy land. Thankfully that crazy land died for official purposes in 5e.

I thought -- and I'm carefully not being definitive about it :smallsmile: -- that Sage Advice clarified elves still need 8 hours of long rest to get all the benefits of a long rest. It's just that they can avoid exhaustion via a mere 4 hours of trance per night.

[Kryx]

According to the Sage Advice you just quoted, one could take (for example) 5 short rests, creating new spell slots from each one by the conversion from warlock spell slots to sorcery points to sorcerer spell slots. Then one could go out in the afternoon and evening and cast spells accordingly.
5 short rests? The expected per long rest is 2-3. There is a tweet out there. Even if you allow more it's still limited by your maximum Sorcerous points.

But then this is why 5e prescribes RAI, not any kind of 3.X strict RAW mindset.

[R.Shackleford]

5 short rests? The expected per long rest is 2-3. There is a tweet out there. Even if you allow more it's still limited by your maximum Sorcerous points.

But then this is why 5e prescribes RAI, not any kind of 3.X strict RAW mindset.

Which is weird.

They want that but the language they use within the rules themselves is very much against it.

I'm more of a fan of 13th Age's language when it comes to "use RAI, not RAW".

Edit

A Sorlock that focuses on Bend Luck (Wild Magic) could get nasty...