Shillelagh Monk...

[Mr. C]

Monks can wield clubs as monk weapons. Shillelagh allows you to use your wisdom (or spellcasting attribute) in place of strength, specifically strength, when determining attack and damage rolls.

However, being a monk weapon the monk may also use Dexterity in place of strength for attack and damage rolls on the club.

While granted this would require a pretty elastic interpretation of the rules I'm wondering if there's been any official ruling on it? I've looked around but found nothing...

[Aetol]

You can use STR with monk weapons, so you can replace it with WIS thanks to Shillelagh.

I don't really see your problem ?

[Temperjoke]

Shillelagh has two effects, it gives you the option to replace strength with wisdom for your attack, and it boosts your club's damage from a 1d4 to a 1d8. It doesn't say that you have to, just that you may, so I'd imagine if you wanted to use the monk's ability to use Dexterity for attack with monk weapons, it wouldn't be a problem.

[MinotaurWarrior]

There's really no ruling needed. A monk with Shillelagh can use either Strength, Dexterity, or their Spellcasting Attribute on the attack. It also counts as a magical weapon, and is a d8 weapon. Nothing would allow Dex + Wis, or anything like that.

It's somewhat useful at low levels, but probably not worth the cost required to obtain it (either a MC dip, or a feat).

A character with this option is more likely running into issues re: using monk abilities with animal form special rules, which is sometimes pretty ambiguous.

[Aetol]

Ah, I missed the damage die upgrade. So it's indeed kinda ambiguous RAW-wise. Now it doesn't appear to violate RAI, and it would violate RAF to rule against. I can't find anything on Sage Advice but I'd say it works.

[Yuki Akuma]

Ah, I missed the damage die upgrade. So it's indeed kinda ambiguous RAW-wise.

No it isn't.

The spell allows you to replace Str with your Spellcasting Ability when making attack and damage rolls

The Monk class's Martial Arts feature allows you to replace Str with Dex when making attack and damage rolls.

Combined, they simply give you the option of Str, Dex, or Spellcasting Ability. They don't somehow cancel out.

[PoeticDwarf]

You can use STR with monk weapons, so you can replace it with WIS thanks to Shillelagh.

I don't really see your problem ?

Agreed, you CAN use strength with your monk weapons...

[Sigreid]

I think that since your martial arts and martial arts weapons scale up in damage, and monks eventually can hit with their martial arts attacks as if they were using a magic weapon, any monk that was planning on being a monk for several levels would get buyer's remorse from Shillelagh before very long at all.

[R.Shackleford]

I think that since your martial arts and martial arts weapons scale up in damage, and monks eventually can hit with their martial arts attacks as if they were using a magic weapon, any monk that was planning on being a monk for several levels would get buyer's remorse from Shillelagh before very long at all.

Shillelagh is mostly for the Monk 2 (5)/Druid or Cleric 18 (or whatever) builds.

If I was a monk I would rather pick up thorn whip.

[coredump]

I'm still confused on what you are trying to accomplish.

A monk with Shillelagh can attack with a D8 weapon, and use either Str, or Dex or Wis for attack and damage.

OTOH, a monk with a staff can attack with a D8 weapon, and use Str or Dex for attack and damage.

I am not seeing the advantage of Shillelagh...

[Aetol]

OTOH, a monk with a staff can attack with a D8 weapon, and use Str or Dex for attack and damage.

I am not seeing the advantage of Shillelagh...

He wants to use a club (1d4), not a staff.

[coredump]

Sure..... But why?

[Aetol]

Having a free hand for whatever reason, maybe ? Dual-wielding them ?

[coredump]

I can make wild guesses too.... That isn't the point.
Besides, dual wielding isn't really a viable option

[TheOOB]

Honestly, the only class I've seen Shillelagh being useful past about level 5 is Cleric.

[MeeposFire]

Honestly, the only class I've seen Shillelagh being useful past about level 5 is Cleric.

Or really high level paladin or bard/warlock builds that use cha based shillelagh. I say high level because they really only come together very late in teh game so not worth it IMO.

[Sigreid]

Honestly, the only class I've seen Shillelagh being useful past about level 5 is Cleric.

I could see it on a fighter just as a means to be able to pick up a stick and have a decent weapon that will hit for full damage against critters that are resistant to normal weapons. Sort of a last resort fail safe.

[SharkForce]

I could see it on a fighter just as a means to be able to pick up a stick and have a decent weapon that will hit for full damage against critters that are resistant to normal weapons. Sort of a last resort fail safe.

full damage is a bit of a misnomer. it's based on casting stat, which means right now you can either get it as a wisdom-based spell (nature cleric or druid, or druid proxy by magic initiate feat) or as a charisma-based spell (level 3 tome warlock, level 6+ lore bard or 10+ any bard).

frankly, i suspect half damage from a stick that adds strength to damage will be pretty comparable for most fighters, unless you're talking total immunity to nonmagical weapons... and if your DM is throwing that at you when you have no magical weapons, i'd say it's pretty unlikely for the appropriate plan to involve using shillelagh with no high attribute to back it up.

[Sigreid]

full damage is a bit of a misnomer. it's based on casting stat, which means right now you can either get it as a wisdom-based spell (nature cleric or druid, or druid proxy by magic initiate feat) or as a charisma-based spell (level 3 tome warlock, level 6+ lore bard or 10+ any bard).

frankly, i suspect half damage from a stick that adds strength to damage will be pretty comparable for most fighters, unless you're talking total immunity to nonmagical weapons... and if your DM is throwing that at you when you have no magical weapons, i'd say it's pretty unlikely for the appropriate plan to involve using shillelagh with no high attribute to back it up.

I specifically was referring to the damage from the weapon not being cut in half by resistance to non-magic weapons. I'm sorry if that wasn't clear.

[georgie_leech]

I specifically was referring to the damage from the weapon not being cut in half by resistance to non-magic weapons. I'm sorry if that wasn't clear.

Exactly. Average of 1d4+5 /2 is 3.5, 1d8+2 (being really generous here) is 6.5. Considering it costs either a multiclass or a feat, there's almost certainly something else you could do to improve your damage by more than 3.

[Sigreid]

Exactly. Average of 1d4+5 /2 is 3.5, 1d8+2 (being really generous here) is 6.5. Considering it costs either a multiclass or a feat, there's almost certainly something else you could do to improve your damage by more than 3.
My understanding with the cantrip is the caster can choose to use his str mod if desired.

[JackPhoenix]

Exactly. Average of 1d4+5 /2 is 3.5, 1d8+2 (being really generous here) is 6.5. Considering it costs either a multiclass or a feat, there's almost certainly something else you could do to improve your damage by more than 3.

Why is his bonus suddenly only +2 with Shillelagh? You can still use Str to attack and damage, but you'll do 1d8 and ignore the resistance...so it's (1d4+5)/2 (3.75) vs. 1d8+5 (9.5)

[georgie_leech]

Why is his bonus suddenly only +2 with Shillelagh? You can still use Str to attack and damage, but you'll do 1d8 and ignore the resistance...so it's (1d4+5)/2 (3.75) vs. 1d8+5 (9.5)

On review, you're entirely correct. Objection withdrawn.