[3.5] Ice magic based gish

[ZiggZagg]

So, new campaign coming up for D&D 3.5. It is set in modern times, but with access to most evrything you would find in a D&D campaign.
Sources avaialable:

All 3.5 nonsource-setting material (so no Eberron or Forgotten Realms)
Dragon Compendium
DM is willing to allow homebrew modifications within reason

What I am looking for is a character that can switch between melee (likely longsword or scimitar) and ranged/crowd control at will. Does not have to be great in either, but I would like him competent in both. I have made very effective gishes in the past, but I would like this one based around ice magic, which leaves my normal route of Jade Pheonix Mage (which is fire based) unavailable (though, have been discussing changing its focus to ice.) The nature of the character, though, is that I am trying to avoid most of my usual spells, and sticking strictly to combat applications. I only need a few blasting spells (and suggestions would be welcome...why do I see so many people relying on the lesser orbs, for instance?), while other ice based spells that are worth a look would be appreciated. I am not above reflavoring energy types (without taking Energy Substitution, which I know he will let me do), so any really good fire, lightning, sonic spells could be a possibility.

My main concern is finding a good prestige class to mix with it, and hopefully is ice based. I am a fan of abjurant champion, and would not be against sprinkling a few levels in, as he will be making heavy use of the shield spell. First level is start, I believe. Flaws are in play, and I have a homebrew one ready to go, just waiting on approval (before anyone screams broken it makes it possible to not regain my spells every day...because I am a slave to RP :p )

I turn it over to all you beautiful people. Thanks in advance :D

[Pluto!]

Orb spells are recommended because they ignore Spell Resistance, can shoot into Antimagic Fields and don't have saves.

I don't have any special tricks that involve a cold theme, except the possibility of Necropolitan or Tomb-Tainted Soul + Lord of the Uttercold, but there's no way a Gish would have enough feats free for that to be worthwhile. Especially because Necropolitan would leave you squishy unless you put yet another feat into Minor Shapeshift.

Edit: I totally forgot how both Lord of the Uttercold and Necropolitan work. So I'd probably just do a normal gish with different spells and a blasting-oriented feat selection. Most metamagic reduction routes commit too hard to the Wizard chassis to just slot onto a gish build (except maybe Dweomerkeeper, but at that point we're diving into the deep end with a pretty involved character build).

[Vaz]

There is a suit of magic armour on one of the online articles that allows you to cast [cold] spells without ASF. If your DM allows Snowcasting to work with an Ingredient Pouch, you can get all spells to be considered [cold].

[Nifft]

Hmm, ice magic.

There are some nice effects which cause icy terrain (Path of Frost, Sleet Storm, Freezing Fog off the top of my head).

Find a way to get Icewalking and cold resistance, and fight in the middle of a thematic chilly Grease effect which causes your foes to fall down. (For Freezing Fog, you'll want blindsense / tremorsense and Freedom of Movement, too.)

Boreal Wind is an incredibly brutal spell if you can keep your enemies in its area of effect for a few turns.

The obvious [Reserve] feat choice for someone who enjoys ice magic and melee range is Winter's Blast. If you could find some way to combo that with a melee attack, it'd be a perfect staple effect. (It's already a great staple effect against high-SR enemies who lack Cold resistance.)

[ZiggZagg]

I do not currently have access to my books. Could you elaborate, please, on the spell Boreal Wind and the effects of the Winter's Blast cold feat?

As for the orbs, I understand why people like the REGULAR 4th level spell orbs...but I see a lot of blasters utlizing the 1st level equivalents more often. Is there a reason for this?

[Nifft]

I do not currently have access to my books. Could you elaborate, please, on the spell Boreal Wind and the effects of the Winter's Blast cold feat? Not sure how much closed-content text is legal on the public forums, so I sent you a PM.


As for the orbs, I understand why people like the REGULAR 4th level spell orbs...but I see a lot of blasters utlizing the 1st level equivalents more often. Is there a reason for this? Yes, spell resistance.

Lesser Orb spells ignore SR.

[DarkSonic1337]

If you're okay with mild persisting you can grab 3 levels on incantatrix and persist spellflower.

Get energy substitution (cold) (or the appropriate rod) and hold the charge on a multi use touch spell like corrosive grasp or storm touch. Now all of your unarmed strikes deal some extra cold damage (get a fanged ring to grab improved unarmed strike and improved natural attack).

You can persist fire shield (chill shield) to make enemies take cold damage when they hit you.

Obscuring Snow and Snowsight is another nice combo for one way concealment.

Elemental Blade from Dragonlance (War of the Lance) gives you options for elemental weapons. Cold does 2d6+caster level (max 10) and fort save vs stagger on every hit.

Elemental Dart from Dragonlance Campaign Setting gets you 5 darts that deal 1d6+10 each (fort half, SR yes though).

Frost Breath is a 30ft cone reflex save vs DAZE

Shivering Touch.

Sleet Storm is huge battlefield control. As is Freezing Fog.

Orb of Cold. Decent damage, SR:no, and fort save vs BLIND

Boreal Wind. MASSIVE area and decent damage that repeats over multiple rounds....and a blowback effect.

Freezing Glance gives you a standard action gaze attack that freezes people.

As the Frost gives you Immunity to cold, Damage reduction 10/magic and piercing, and "At the beginning of your action, creatures within 15 feet of you take 2d6 points of cold damage per round. A creature that takes damage from this effect must make a Fortitude save (DC 17 + your key ability modifier) or be slowed, as the slow spell, for the remaining duration of as the frost." There are better things to do with 7th level spells, but hey it's kinda neat.

Savage Species has rituals for gaining subtypes, including elemental subtypes.


Just go through a spellsearch engine like Dndt..ls and search for spells with the cold descriptor. Also search for other energy descriptors for things to use energy substitution on.

Also, I mostly went through the Wiz/Sorc list (except for the level 1 druid spell snowsight), but the other lists have some neat ice spells too. Archivist (which has access to all divine spells) would make a really nice Ice Mage.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Between Ice Axe and Ice Slick on the Cleric spell list and Creeping Cold on the Druid list, plus Snowsight + Obscuring Snow, divine magic is actually considerably better at cold spells than arcane. For this reason, an Archivist (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20051007a&page=3) may be your best choice, but I'm not sure about it starting at 1st level. You'll want a source of Turn Undead to power DMM: Persist, which means either a Cloistered Cleric dip early or a Sacred Exorcist dip at 8th. I would probably begin play as a Human Cloistered Cleric 1, with the Planning and Undeath domains and Knowledge Devotion, and go into Archivist at 2nd and keep progressing that for the rest of your career. Between Divine Power, Ice Axe, (Fell Drain, Fell Frighten) Fire Shield (twice), (Lesser Rod of) Extended Creeping Cold, and (Lesser Rod of) Extended Snowsight (on the whole party, make each of them pitch in 2,000 gp for 1st level Pearls of Power and to go in thirds on Lesser Rods of Extend if they want it cast on them) combined with (Lesser Rod of) Extended Obscuring Snow, you'll have an amazingly powerful character in the mid to late levels.

Another option would be to make a psionic gish, since all of the psionic energy powers allow you to choose what element to use each time you manifest it, so running into cold-immune opponents won't be much of a problem. You can even dip a single level of Cryokineticist (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040625e) (the variant Pyrokineticist (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/prestigeClasses/pyrokineticist.htm) version, not the lackluster class from Frostburn), since its energy lash can be used with any feat that benefits a standard whip, including Power Attack. You'll need Point-Blank Shot (which always applies to the energy lash) and Precise Shot (which is good for ranged spells), and you can even use Rapid Shot to make an extra attack with it when you full attack. Abjurant Champion specifically says that it can be adapted to be a psionic class, what powers it benefits would need to be hand-picked since psionics has no abjuration school, but most of the choices should be fairly obvious. You can dip Ranger for Fast Movement (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#ranger) to go Slayer (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/prestigeClasses/slayer.htm), and/or use Sanctified Mind from Lords of Madness to progress your BAB and manifesting. I would go with a Warforged Shaper with Adamantine Body, and get Psionic Minor Creation and cover yourself with Black Lotus Extract poison from at 1st level. Between using Share Pain on your Psicrystal so you always take half damage (don't forget its Hardness 8, and keep it in a compartment on your person so there's no line of effect of area effects) and Psionic Repair Damage, plus you can share that and other powers like Vigor with the Psicrystal, you'll be very tanky and self-sufficient. Warforged get a natural slam attack that adds 1.5x Str to damage, so don't even worry about weapon proficiencies early on. Consider using the Midnight Augmentation + Bestow Power combo to recharge your powerpoints, and get Persistent Power later on to make your buffs last all day.

[DarkSonic1337]

On a somewhat related note, does anyone else think the ritual of elements (savage species) is overpriced? And not in the actual cost of the ritual, but rather the idea that an elemental subtype deserves +1 level adjustment?

[ZiggZagg]

Is there a feat that will give me a bonus to save DC's to just cold subtype spells? Taking spell focus seems a bit of a stretch, as most of the spells I am looking at are from multiple school.

Also, as far as basic build, thinking of starting battle sorcerer, then maybe pick up a level of martial adept to go into repurposed Jade Pheonix mage. Or maybe try to homebrew an arcane version of pyrokineticist. Thoughts?

[nedz]

Is there a feat that will give me a bonus to save DC's to just cold subtype spells? Taking spell focus seems a bit of a stretch, as most of the spells I am looking at are from multiple school.

Also, as far as basic build, thinking of starting battle sorcerer, then maybe pick up a level of martial adept to go into repurposed Jade Pheonix mage. Or maybe try to homebrew an arcane version of pyrokineticist. Thoughts?

Cold Focus ( Frostburn p47)

[Nifft]

Is there a feat that will give me a bonus to save DC's to just cold subtype spells? Taking spell focus seems a bit of a stretch, as most of the spells I am looking at are from multiple school. If you're a Sorcerer, in addition to Cold Focus, you can also pick up Draconic Heritage (some dragon with a Cold breath) plus Draconic Power. This also opens up Draconic Breath which gets you a frosty breath-weapon attack.


Also, as far as basic build, thinking of starting battle sorcerer, then maybe pick up a level of martial adept to go into repurposed Jade Pheonix mage. Or maybe try to homebrew an arcane version of pyrokineticist. Thoughts? Battle Sorcerer is widely disliked for taking the Sorcerer's main flaw (few spells known) and making it worse.

IMHO a fun build might be Sorcerer / Totemist 2 / Soulcaster -> abuse Alter Self to get a huge number of natural attacks, and keep abusing as you get better shape-change options.

Martial Adepts and Jade Phoenix Mage are both also excellent options, but both are largely Fire-oriented. You could just swap the elements and leave all the effects as-is, but that feels a bit unsatisfying. If you do a full re-work which makes the side-effects thematic for cold, that's a bunch of work, and it's challenging to do that without upsetting balance, but it'd be really neat to see.

I really liked the ideas behind the Pyrokineticist, but I didn't like all of the execution. But it's pretty popular, so I bet there are better re-writes around.