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MeklorIlavator
2007-05-13, 07:53 PM
I am currently in a real life campaign, with 4 other players. My current character is a Crusader/Cleric/Ruby Night Vindicator, who specializes in damage and control. So he's fine, but the other players have a problem
1) The Cleric- Has Monkey Grip plus weapon Pro- Bastard sword, in place of Divine Metamagic, and generally doesn't know what he is doing. Didn't spend 17000gp out of 36000gp, because he didn't want to put forward the effort, but it is his first character, so he is getting better while playing.

2) The Beguiler- Has bought only 1950gp worth of equipment, 300 of which is given up to the hidden weapons in the Com Scoundrel but has not written down what they do; only that he has them. He doesn't have any idea what his class abilities or spell do, and doesn’t even know how his spell list works (managed to insult me when I brought up that some spells were in the PHB2), and generally refuses to put forth the effort.

3) The Monk-Also new and also decided the magic equipment wasn't worth his time. We persuaded him to actually at least buy something, so he bought one of the item sets in the Magic item compendium (the one that makes you more catlike), but nothing else. So he has a grand total of 18 AC, as a frontline combatant (his character design), and no bonuses to attacks or damage.

4) The Wizard- This guy experienced (relatively), but is a mixed bag. Specialized in transmutation, good choice of banned schools, good spell and item choice. But he decided that, as a role-playing choice, that he would cast his spells at random. Specifically, by drawing cards. This causes him to cast spells like ghost sound in combat, and then complaining that he isn’t doing anything. He is kind of cheating right now, by choosing what he will draw if he feels like it, but he still will not stop doing things at random to help the "team".

We have had two combats so far, and right now I'm the only competent person, generally dropping foes (the wizard did help destroy several enemies in the first fight, but sat around invisible in the second). I have a feeling that someone is going to die soon, since this is a combat heavy game and in our first encounter, 3 players (monk, cleric, and me) were reduced to 0 before the end. Plus, the Dm is heavy handed in the favor department, giving the Wizard a legacy item from the DemonWeb Pits campaign, giving him bonus Xp for acting in character (acting senile), but none to anyone else, and pretty much making things harder for the rest of the party, which relies on me.

With this in mind, what do you think the best replacement character would be when I die (and it’s defiantly when)?

Tellah
2007-05-13, 08:07 PM
It sounds like you dislike everyone you're playing with. Why don't you just find another game?

MeklorIlavator
2007-05-13, 08:17 PM
It sounds like you dislike everyone you're playing with. Why don't you just find another game?

No one else I really know, and most aren't bad, or are shaping into good players, except the beguiler. The DM isn't too bad with favoratism, usually evening out, I'm just afraid that someone's going to die soon, and that some one is likely to be me, because I tend to have to wade into meele to control the battle field, and I want to be prepared. Also, I had to leave, so the Wizard or the DM is playing my character, and to Vrocks just appeared.

I seem harsh about the characters, but I'm just annoyed that they haven't done as much work as they should have. Except the Beguiler, I don't really like him, but he is a freind of the DM, so oh well.

Lemur
2007-05-13, 09:05 PM
Well, Cleric's suboptimization and being enthralled with bastard monkeys and the like are likely a result of his being new. It sounds like you started above first level, which can be a bit of a stretch for new players. Expecting him to fully comprehend every splat book you're using on top of that is asking a bit much. He should get better with time and some guidance, when needed.

Monk, also being new, probably has similar issues, such as choosing the monk class, another one of those shiney pieces of fool's gold that attracts new players. To some extent, it sounds to me like you shouldn't have started at such a high level, with so much gold to toss around (what is it, level 9, or something for 36k?) as it's better to keep things simple for new players. Either that, or someone else, like the DM, or more experienced members (like you or the Wizard) should have just bought them stuff (simple, +X enhancement bonus items and the like).

The beguiler, I don't know what to say. There's a difference between being inexperienced and not understanding the system very well, and just not caring.

As for the Wizard, I'd put forth this suggestion- just use the cards that have the highest two or three levels of spells you can cast on them. Casting random spells is kind of a fun, silly idea. But having spells on those cards that you know won't be useful at all (like level 0 spells, or non-combat spells) is just stupid. If his cards are limited to level 4 and 5, and possibly level 3 combat spells, he has a comprimise that lets him do random casting and have a semblance of usefulness at the same time. As he runs low on cards, he can add lower level spells to his deck until the next day. Try suggesting this as a possibility to him the next time you meet.

In any case, good luck.

Tormsskull
2007-05-14, 08:26 AM
I am currently in a real life campaign, with 4 other players. My current character is a Crusader/Cleric/Ruby Night Vindicator, who specializes in damage and control. So he's fine, but the other players have a problem

I'm not familiar with crusader or ruby night, but I am assuming that those are prestige classes. What level did you guys start at?

If you are playing with people who are generally inexperienced, then you should start the campaign over, play core only, and begin at level 1. Let the other players start with simple characters that don't have a million and 1 options in combat. It sounds to me that they have just gotten frustrated with how many things they could possibly do, and are instead just messing around or picking what sounds cool.

Give these new players a chance to actually learn D&D from the ground up, that way they can slide into all their abilities and options naturally rather than being confused.

ZeroNumerous
2007-05-14, 09:02 AM
Crusader is a base class from ToB.

If you want to help, point out some spells to the Cleric that are pretty cool, and remind him that as a cleric he can sponatenous cast Cure spells. Oh, and suggest that you guys pool your cash(you guys being all of you) to buy things with.

Then deny the Wizard access to the cash-pool. Hey, it's in character, he's senile. Why the hell would you give him money?

As for the monk.. If everyone goes for the cash-pooling idea then buy him a CON booster. God knows he'll need it.

The beguiler.. Tell him that his Whelm spells are melee touch. And that armor interferes with his touch ability and puts penalities on it. Then tell him that he's better off going ahead of you. And that ogres and giants are really weak to melee touch spells. Oh, and tell him that killing something by yourself gives you insane amounts of XP.

As for your own character build.. May I suggest a wizard of your own? You could even make him a JPM from ToB. Then you can just choose to explode when faced with a TPK.

MeklorIlavator
2007-05-14, 02:57 PM
Well, Cleric's suboptimization and being enthralled with bastard monkeys and the like are likely a result of his being new. It sounds like you started above first level, which can be a bit of a stretch for new players. Expecting him to fully comprehend every splat book you're using on top of that is asking a bit much. He should get better with time and some guidance, when needed.
Actually, the Dm basically built the guy, and he thought that both of those are good feats. We started at 9th, which I'm not completely happy about, beause I know it makes it difficult for the players, but the DM is adamant.


Monk, also being new, probably has similar issues, such as choosing the monk class, another one of those shiney pieces of fool's gold that attracts new players. To some extent, it sounds to me like you shouldn't have started at such a high level, with so much gold to toss around (what is it, level 9, or something for 36k?) as it's better to keep things simple for new players. Either that, or someone else, like the DM, or more experienced members (like you or the Wizard) should have just bought them stuff (simple, +X enhancement bonus items and the like).
I was busy when we created characters(I was making my own), but the DM and Wiz(his character was made before hand) were supposedly helping the others, but they don't have skills listed, and their charcter sheets are a mess. I think that they really just spent most of thier time goofing around. Plus, it doesn't help that the DM and Wizard pretty much chose classes for the players, then made them sound cool and interesting to entice them.


The beguiler, I don't know what to say. There's a difference between being inexperienced and not understanding the system very well, and just not caring.

I think he has WOW-itis, the belief that if he mentions what he is going to do, or if the name is on his sheet, then someone else will take care of everything. And when approached about his lackluster prefomance, he bascially said that its not his problem.


As for the Wizard, I'd put forth this suggestion- just use the cards that have the highest two or three levels of spells you can cast on them. Casting random spells is kind of a fun, silly idea. But having spells on those cards that you know won't be useful at all (like level 0 spells, or non-combat spells) is just stupid. If his cards are limited to level 4 and 5, and possibly level 3 combat spells, he has a comprimise that lets him do random casting and have a semblance of usefulness at the same time. As he runs low on cards, he can add lower level spells to his deck until the next day. Try suggesting this as a possibility to him the next time you meet.
In any case, good luck.
I will suggest this, because he himself complained of his uselessness in thye first battle(cantrips, it appears, are pretty useless when used against high leve, enemies). He is one of the most experienced, so he probably won't be as bad next session.

Ever Phasm
2007-05-14, 03:04 PM
You indeed have a troubled campaign. My advice: (drum roll please)

talk to the DM about this stuff outside the game. Talk to him about the following:
perhaps make the fights a little easier.

talk to the beguiler about "stuff"

spend some time explaining the rules to the monk

point out some of the neat features of the cleric class to the cleric (specifically
spellcasting)

and throw enemies at the party that specifically appeal to one or more characters (undead for example)

Person_Man
2007-05-14, 03:12 PM
No one else I really know, and most aren't bad, or are shaping into good players, except the beguiler. The DM isn't too bad with favoratism, usually evening out, I'm just afraid that someone's going to die soon, and that some one is likely to be me, because I tend to have to wade into meele to control the battle field, and I want to be prepared. Also, I had to leave, so the Wizard or the DM is playing my character, and to Vrocks just appeared.

I seem harsh about the characters, but I'm just annoyed that they haven't done as much work as they should have. Except the Beguiler, I don't really like him, but he is a freind of the DM, so oh well.

I live in the DC area. There are plenty of other gamers about. Just post on the Finding Players board. Or walk into any of the half dozen or so gaming stores and ask around. Or go to any major college campus. We're pretty much everywhere.

Closet_Skeleton
2007-05-14, 03:15 PM
Half your problems seem to come from starting at level 9.

A really bad idea. Buying stuff is a pain in DnD and at level 1 you don't have to and by leveling up you get all your stuff in installments.

However being a DM its easy to get bored with players who die if you send anything stronger than a goblin at them.

Yahzi
2007-05-15, 12:23 AM
Half your problems seem to come from starting at level 9.
That's what I was gonna say.

Start over - at level one. Give each character 1 weapon, a small shield, and 10 sp. Make them spend the first sp on breakfast.

The rest should follow...

kellandros
2007-05-15, 01:28 PM
If you still end up having to make a new character for this campaign, I'd suggest going for something sub-optimal. If you are the most effective character in combat, then you end up being the baseline for what they can survive. Party balance and talking to the DM about encounter difficulty are all I can see here.

Perhaps create a bard? You could buff the rest of the party, and get them to be more involved and effective in combat.