Out of the Abyss DM Discussion Thread (spoilers ahoy).

[steppedonad4]

Kinda hoping to get some DM discussion going on running this module. Since it's meant to be a DM discussion about the module, spoilers should be assumed so don't read unless you're happy for it to be spoiled.

I'll start the discussion off by asking how DM's are handling the first episode. It's a doozy. Imprisoned from the start, requires a lot of roleplaying or it's pretty much an assured TPK. If the PC's do anything other than try to climb down the webs and avoid the giant spiders, they're facing multiple CR 2 quaggoths, and if they try to go through the guardhouse it's CR 5 Drow Elite Warriors. And if they even dare think about trying to take on the Drow Priestess of Lolth, she's CR 8 and can summon a CR 10 demon.

I forewarned all the players at my table that they're going to have to be smart and cautious because it's TPK-town if they don't. Of course, they charged right into the guardhouse immediately after getting out of their restraints and picking the cell door lock :smalleek:

[steppedonad4]

Nobody else running it who wants to discuss it?

[Alganis]

I would like to run it, but unfortunatly my book hasn't arrived yet, so for now I could just take an educated guess what migth be done ...

[steppedonad4]

I would like to run it, but unfortunatly my book hasn't arrived yet, so for now I could just take an educated guess what migth be done ...

You know, I just realised that I have an advance copy...

[pibby]

You know, I just realised that I have an advance copy...

i thought they'd be out for everyone already but I guess mine is an advanced copy too. Where do you do the campaign from? If you run it at the FLGS on Wednesday or Sunday you need to be a bit more forgiving as far as yolo adventurers. Perhaps they do want to see you kill them, which isn't so bad considering the guidelines in the book. I mean they just started, what more could they lose?

[steppedonad4]

i thought they'd be out for everyone already but I guess mine is an advanced copy too. Where do you do the campaign from? If you run it at the FLGS on Wednesday or Sunday you need to be a bit more forgiving as far as yolo adventurers. Perhaps they do want to see you kill them, which isn't so bad considering the guidelines in the book. I mean they just started, what more could they lose?

FLGS. I did warn them that they had to be smart and cautious but they didn't seem interested in roleplaying with any of the NPC's, other than to torment them and kill one, so they didn't really learn anything useful from them, like the who, what, why and where of their situation. I also informed them of the CR 8 priestess and her bodyguards but they seemed unconcerned about that as well and just charged the guard spire... across a one person-wide bridge.

Anyway, they're facing off against the two drow guards at the moment (had to finish session before end of combat) and the elite drow is about to join them next round (he was upstairs in the armoury). One of the PC's is currently running towards the temple spire and guard barracks so yeah, that should be interesting.

[pibby]

Don't forget they're restrained! It's easy to forget and makes the quaggoths more dangerous since they're harder to kill and they hit harder after taking some damage.

[steppedonad4]

Don't forget they're restrained! It's easy to forget and makes the quaggoths more dangerous since they're harder to kill and they hit harder after taking some damage.

They broke out of the restraints. Assisted rolls plus a barbarian raging, plus an improvised lockpick used by the rogue meant all but one of the PC's is out of the restraints now. Also picked the lock on the cell door with a successful stealth check on top of it so managed to surprise the guards.

[coredump]

FLGS. I did warn them that they had to be smart and cautious but they didn't seem interested in roleplaying with any of the NPC's, other than to torment them and kill one, so they didn't really learn anything useful from them, like the who, what, why and where of their situation. I also informed them of the CR 8 priestess and her bodyguards but they seemed unconcerned about that as well and just charged the guard spire... across a one person-wide bridge.

Anyway, they're facing off against the two drow guards at the moment (had to finish session before end of combat) and the elite drow is about to join them next round (he was upstairs in the armoury). One of the PC's is currently running towards the temple spire and guard barracks so yeah, that should be interesting.


Honestly.... I would probably subdue the PCs in the guard tower, and outright kill the one heading towards the temple; especially if he manages to get inside the spire.

At some point, PC death is simply a logical consequence of their actions. They are choosing to avoid running away, and they split the party, and they attacked creatures way over their capability. And this is all after blowing off their best allies (the other prisoners.) Heck the other prisoners could probably kill them even. They seem to be trying to make every mistake possible.... it makes sense that at least some of them die.

[coredump]

I only see a few viable possibilities for escape. (Of course, players can be amazingly clever...)

1) Get out of cage, and just jump and run.: there are a number of ways this can happen, and should be fairly easy to pull off, with or without a distraction. But...no gear.

2) During a 'distraction', the Elite guard leaves the guard room spire, then rush the two remaining drow and raid the armory.: This is best done during a demon raid, but there may be other distractions available. Timing is still an issue since you are 'trapped' in the armory if anyone shows up.

3) Get out of cage, and rush the guard room spire without distraction.: This one is *very* dangerous. The Elite is one-hit one-kill for any PC and most prisoner NPCs. The only chance I can see is to try and grapple him, but even then he gets to attack, even if shoved prone. And if the rest of the Outpost is notified.... you don't have very long.

4) Get past guard room and go towards Shrine.: I don't care how 'distracted' the drow are.... unless the DM is *very* lenient, this should be a suicide mission.


Clever Tactics:
As mentioned, Grappling the Elite Drow may be useful.
Cutting the bridge between the guard room and the other side of the waterfall will buy a lot of time before you get swarmed.
Either cutting the bridge between cage and guard room, or somehow sneaking out, then hitting the watch post for at least *some* gear before jumping. (beware the quaggoths...)


As DM, I am thinking of not giving them much help, so they need to just escape and run without gear. I will arrange things so the Drow catch up to them for the recapture. Now they will all be level 2, which makes storming the guard post(armory) a lot more feasible. It also gives me more chances to play up the Drow cruelty and the danger of the chase.

Any other ideas...??

[Kane0]

Man I am looking forward to getting my hands on this book.

[Gnomes2169]

I have the book, and am definitely starting the PC's at level 2. NPC's (especially the were-rats, who can only be really stopped by that goop wand) will definitely be a rather big help.

I also plan to have the gnome that can pull out anything at any time give our vengeful drow elite soldier some explosives, and to have quite a large distraction happen when the temple sprie suddenly is no longer attached to the cavern roof during the middle of the demon attack... Soon (one of the elites) and the shrine will be blown up, and the drow priestess will be left hanging from one of the barely-surviving crosswalks, marred and burt in a rather poetic manner, seeing as her vanity and appreciation of skills is literally only skin deep (which what leads up to the betrayal and resentment in the first place). Players will be able to raid the spire after they reach ground level (with the somewhat broken ultra-trap shrine and Soon's body/ the wand in the pool).

Basically, I'll be cutting the area the PCs have to explore/ the enemies they have to fight in half, and they should have a bit better time of it in the barracks with enemy numbers reduced. Because I know my players are 100% dungeon completionists, and there is no way they would survive the gauntlet otherwise.

For your game, Arya (the lower ranking priestess) could be willing to help your players to discredit her superior, if you absolutely need something to save your players from their... Well, I'd say suicidal murderhobo tendencies, but that wouldn't really do it justice. After the veteran absolutely wreaks their faces, and he will do so, they might be a bit more willing to accept some help from outside sources. And Arya is more than willing to take advantage of PC desperation at the drop of a hat.

That said, if your PC's are captured again (since the drow will explicitly not kill the prisoners unless given orders to the contrary), one of them will be fed to the spiders. Likely the one most in charge, or at least the one who's sacrifice/ enslavement to Lolth would be least glorious.

[JRosco]

It seems to me that the drow could be suffering from the madness pervading the Underdark (especially considering that Demogorgon is relatively nearby), and could begin fighting one another in a sort of fit. The players could use the chaos of the drow and quaggoths battling one another to escape, or to finish off the survivors, who would be wounded. That would let completionists explore the entire place, and allow the players to get a bit more exp before heading off into the darkness. Just a thought. I don't think I'll run it that way, though, since my players tend to be pretty cautious. I don't think they will want to engage with the drow directly.

[Xaielao]

My player's characters are level 5, having just finished LMoP. I've seen suggestions for characters around this level to just start in the second half of the book, but the book suggests the party be level 8 and from what I've read - this adventure is no cakewalk. Beyond that, there are some great events and locations in the first half of the book I wouldn't want to ignore (like the events in the Kuo-Toa city) not to mention the myriad ideas of my own that I've had while reading. So I've decided to begin the adventure thusly;

After an interim adventure set in the party's home city of Baldur's Gate that will tie together some plot threads, finish others and introduce new ones, the party will get the call to go to Gauntlgrym. I've made a few alterations, the map in the book shows the underdark in the vicinity of Waterdeep, but my party is based in Baldur's Gate, so the underdark locations will be moved to 'between' Baldur's Gate and Waterdeep with Gauntlgrym not at the surface but in the 'middle'dark. So they'll enter the underdark somewhere near BG and trek a couple hundred miles down into the middledark until they reach Gauntlgrym. In this time I can introduce plot threads, locations and events from the first half the book. I might for example have them travel through the lower cave of Velkynvelve and find themselves attacked by the Drow above - who believe them infiltrators. Perhaps they get captured.. or they defeat the drow and free the captives. If they are captured - instead of being 'chased out of the underdark' by the drow - the majority of their gear is loaded onto a trade caravan and they have to chase after it upon escape to get it back? That has the side benefit of introducing those interesting mercurial NPCs. This is just one of several ideas and I'll make sure the party understands that they cant just strait b-line for Gauntlgrym, unlike overland travel the underdark is a maze of caverns, lakes, mushroom forests, what have you. They'll have no choice but to explore, interact, experience events and visit locations - though how, why and when will be largely up to them.

[coredump]

My player's characters are level 5, having just finished LMoP.

They'll have no choice but to explore, interact, experience events and visit locations - though how, why and when will be largely up to them.

That sounds pretty neat. Let us know how it works out. Should be an interesting fight with a lvl 5 party against that outpost.

[L Space]

My group has just made it through the first chapter and have made the trip to Darklake.

They actually worked together really well when planning/implementing their escape from the Drow, which was a bit of a surprise as there has been some tension between a couple of my players. They avoided any unnecessary fights as they were mostly focused on getting their gear and getting as far away from the Drow as soon as possible.

If anything the hardest part for them was traveling through the Underdark as some of those terrain encounters are deadly! On a humorous note, they are slightly terrified of traders now, as each time they've rolled that encounter they also rolled a simultaneous terrain encounter. First time was a rockslide which killed a couple npc's and the second time was with a lava swell, both of which they barely escaped alive. I'm half tempted to just have them keep running across traders to see them twist in the wind :smallbiggrin:.

[danimagus]

A little late to this thread, but I'll see what I can add.

I've run the first scene of the campaign for two different groups. One was a collection of family members (new to D&D) over New Years, and that was a lot of fun from an RP perspective, while the other was with a regular crew that I’ll continue playing with and posting online. With the first group I used the session to teach them a little bit about D&D, and also to get acquainted with the campaign myself. As said in this thread, the opening scene is a LOT to deal with. 10 characters to roleplay (brutes, tricksters, madmen, kuotoa), and many factors/races/information to keep track of. I agree with what people are saying here; the beginning’s a real challenge to prevent TPK/awkwardness. Of course it gets easier each time, but really study that first chapter before you run the session. If your players wind up fighting (which seems likely) even the lowly drow and Quaggoth guards pose a serious threat to the chained/naked party at first level. So far I love the campaign; super exciting and a lot of fun. The NPCs are real cool and you’re encouraged to run wild with them, make them a part of the players’ stories. Seems like a great place to bring the loyalty mechanic into play. I'll add though that there's still a lot of creating to be done on the behalf of the dungeon master. Some of the random encounter prompts are as simple as: the heroes must traverse a 300 ft deep chasm. They don't even tell you how wide the chasm is!!

So for that first session that I ran with the party of new players, it was fun but dumbed down a bit to compensate. They weren’t too comfortable with roleplaying out of the gate and didn’t have a whole lot of time for the other characters so that was awkward but they took a liking to stool. I threw them the Jorlan plotline quickly, because they weren’t making any progress on gathering information or finding other means of escape. In retrospect I would have beat them up a little more using the whole prison mechanics with the guards and the labor, but I wanted these folks to have a smoother first session and a chance to goof around. Using Stool they talked to some of the other characters and wound up developing something of a friendship with Jimjar. Eventually our sorcerer picked a fight with Ront and got knocked out before the guards could even react. After sulking in the prison for some time, they made their break at the guard shift. They snuck out past most of the prisoners and then the Quaggoth guards, waking stool on purpose and Jimjar by accident.

Using their rogue to sneak into the barracks, they almost successfully assassinated the guard on watchduty, but they wound up rousing another drow guard in the chamber above. This is when stuff got a little out of control. The party was able to kick the three drow guards’ asses, but they alerted the priestess and the elite warriors. Even with the demon diversion, the party got totally pwned but it was a lot of fun watching the rogue successfully disarm one of the drow guards and slice him up, the druid successfully restraining the guard using her entangle spell before the fighter gave them a beating.

My other party is a reliable group of RPGers. They busted right out of the bars on the first night and leapt from the outpost into the pond (via. cannonballs for dwarves/swan dives for elves) after aggroing the whole base pretty much. One of our players created a literal cannon-ball of a dwarf (though glass-cannon) with 20 Str 10 Con 10 Dex, and he was able to bust clean through the gate with a 25 athletics roll. This party’s already travelled two days towards Sloobludop. They freed most of the NPC prisoners (lost a few during the escape) and are thus having trouble with rations. No nighttime ambushes (what rules do you guys use for those btw?) and so far and one encounter out of four possible. I’ve rolled up the rest of the random encounters for the remaining six days, and there should be some interesting stuff I might write up… Coming next: carrion crawler vs. a pack of naked, unarmed prisoners.

[elfonamouse]

Okay probably deserves it's own thread. But what do you think about running a reverse "Out of the Abyss" with the player characters being the Drow and their objective is to recapture the escaped prisoners. I would be running this just for 1 or 2 sessions as our regular GM wants to take a break. Any thoughts?

[Unoriginal]

Please don't necro a 3 years old thread.


As for your question, sure, playing villain NPCs can be fun, as long as the players are ok with playing slavers.