Changing Casting in Combat for Horror 3.5 campaign

[Lvl45DM!]

Hey playground, I'm about to run a horror version of 3.5.
The players are all forced to take 2 levels of an NPC class to start and monsters CR will be calculated as if those were worthwhile levels. Gaining class levels means finding the person in town who can train you, there are no Wizards Clerics or Druids, just Sorcerors Favoured Souls and Spirit Shamans. And a few others like Dread Necromancer, Beguiler
Anyone who does take one of those primary spell casting classes must also take a homebrew blood line to be the source of their power, which is effectively an LA+1 and a limited spell list for a stat boost some skill bonuses and a thematic attack form. (Vampire bloodline gets a bite, Devils get smite good etc)
I am also making the whole thing E10. (with the NPC levels and the LA for casters i wanted some room for PrCs)

BUT THIS ISNT ENOUGH!

I need to make my players scared. Fear for their characters very lives!

SO a small tweak to the rules, more in line with the Halcyon days of 2E. NO concentration checks to cast a spell if you've been damaged that round. None, nada, zip. Get hit by a sword, your spell fizzles. Nicked by an arrow for 1hp your spell fizzles.

How badly does this hose spellcasters with everything else? is anyone gonna still play them? I think they will but just more tactically.

The question I put to you, playground, is have I gone too far?

[Crake]

Hey playground, I'm about to run a horror version of 3.5.
The players are all forced to take 2 levels of an NPC class to start and monsters CR will be calculated as if those were worthwhile levels. Gaining class levels means finding the person in town who can train you, there are no Wizards Clerics or Druids, just Sorcerors Favoured Souls and Spirit Shamans. And a few others like Dread Necromancer, Beguiler
Anyone who does take one of those primary spell casting classes must also take a homebrew blood line to be the source of their power, which is effectively an LA+1 and a limited spell list for a stat boost some skill bonuses and a thematic attack form. (Vampire bloodline gets a bite, Devils get smite good etc)
I am also making the whole thing E10. (with the NPC levels and the LA for casters i wanted some room for PrCs)

BUT THIS ISNT ENOUGH!

I need to make my players scared. Fear for their characters very lives!

SO a small tweak to the rules, more in line with the Halcyon days of 2E. NO concentration checks to cast a spell if you've been damaged that round. None, nada, zip. Get hit by a sword, your spell fizzles. Nicked by an arrow for 1hp your spell fizzles.

How badly does this hose spellcasters with everything else? is anyone gonna still play them? I think they will but just more tactically.

The question I put to you, playground, is have I gone too far?

If your spellcasters are playing their classes correctly, they wont be taking damage anyway. Honestly, if you really want your players to fear for their characters, that's something you need to tackle by making them personally invested in their characters, not something you solve via mechanics. This does make combat scarier, just deadlier. There's a significant difference between the two. I'm not feeling at my most eloquent at the moment, but I'm sure someone will come along shortly to explain the basic elements of running a horror game, but the basic gist of it goes: it's not what the players know and understand that will scare them, it's what they don't know, and don't understand.

[Lvl45DM!]

I know horror campaign basics. Im not asking if this is scary, I know my players and this will scare them the first time it happens. I'm asking if this makes the spellcasters im allowing which are already lower tier unattractive.

[Crake]

I know horror campaign basics. Im not asking if this is scary, I know my players and this will scare them the first time it happens. I'm asking if this makes the spellcasters im allowing which are already lower tier unattractive.

well, i suppose it depends, when you say "if you've been damaged that round", do you mean if they have taken damage between their current and previous turn? Or are you using some old school 2e stuff where rounds have defined starts and ends, and people at the top of the initiative have an advantage beyond the first round of combat? Or are you simply saying that all concentration checks involving taking damage are automatic failures? If it's the latter, I don't really think it will have too much of a bearing in combat to be honest, though it will mean that continuous damage effects like melf's acid arrow essentially nullify a spellcaster for their duration (which you will need to take into account when designing encounters with spellcasters), but otherwise, unless enemies consistently know who to target from the first round and ready attacks appropriately, probably not much of an issue.

[Andezzar]

Unless you have teleporting monsters and/or opponents using ranged weapons, casters shouldn't be in attack range anyways. If this is a concern, they'd probably use their spell slots to cast long term buffs instead.
IMHO this will not bother crafty players much but will annoy others.

BTW, do you plan on telling the players your modified mechanics beforehand or at least give them a brief heads up that you will change rules? If not this is another source of annoyance, not fear.

[Pluto!]

Rules arguments aren't scary.

[ekarney]

Rules arguments aren't scary.

I beg to differ...


As others have previously stated though, the mechanic will either annoy people or not affect them at all. Have you also considered outside things such as combat casting? Does CC now call for a concentration check? Or does it still have the same effect? If you want to represent fear, why not have concentration checks for situations as well as damage?

For example, the party wanders into a high-taint area of great evil. You give them a chilling description blah blah, and a creature arises, whenever the creature does something particularly terrifying have the whole party roll concentration checks to steel themselves for the task at hand and to continue with their actions that round.

[Andezzar]

Good point. Just enforce concentration checks more often, simply because fear is distracting. A good rules change might also be to ban any fear immunity.

[Psyren]

It seems to me that this rule would encourage selfish play. It will result in casters so fearful of taking even the slightest amount of damage during a fight that they will swaddle themselves in buffs, leaving none for the mundanes.

So it's less "would people still play casters" that I would be worried about, and more "how will they play them?"

[Lvl45DM!]

So mostly it seems like its not gonna be a problem. This isn't so much for Horror Style fear as it is trying to contribute a general sense of "you're outclassed and the world is scarier than you."
Encouraging caution I guess.
And I have no problem with selfish players. Or rather, it would be hard to make my players any more selfish. :smallbiggrin: