Is there anyway to salvage Cloaked Dancer....

[Masakan]

I keep looking at this class, I keep getting told how bad it is, but no matter how much I look at it I can't help but feel i can get some use at of it.
I was thinking just getting the first level or 2 and then leaving the rest but...
Is there anyway to salvage this class or is it straight borked?

[Kelb_Panthera]

One thing to remember about this forum; the average level of optimization is rather on the high side.

That said, the first level feature is something a bard can do anyway and the second level ability is only useful if you have a full-on source of bonus damage to stack on it.

If I was going to use cloaked dancer, I'd be building around it, ala the Iron Chef Optimization Contest held each month.

[nedz]

IC only uses 10 level PrCs, well usually anyway, so you won't see this as an ingredient. You might see it paired with another, similar, 10 level PrC in an IC build — though that would be surprising.

The more I look at this class though the less impressive it gets. Do we need to list the issues ? The second level ability is especially disappointing when you read the small print.

[Masakan]

IC only uses 10 level PrCs, well usually anyway, so you won't see this as an ingredient. You might see it paired with another, similar, 10 level PrC in an IC build — though that would be surprising.

The more I look at this class though the less impressive it gets. Do we need to list the issues ? The second level ability is especially disappointing when you read the small print.

Ok then answer this, is there any Prestige class that has 6+ Skill points per level,Full or near full spell progression and gives bardic music to some degree, and before you say anything I wanna hold off on heartfire fanner since many don't like Dragon magazine.

[Curmudgeon]

There are few ways to get Bardic Music effects without broadcasting your presence to all nearby enemies; Cloaked Dancer is one of them. But how often are you going to be in a scenario where you need a Silence spell to fight nearby enemies yet not attract the attention of enemies in the next room/around a corner?

Bards get Silence and have arcane spellcasting; that's probably the most likely entry into Cloaked Dancer. If you like the Bard class but hate that you've got to make noise all the time to use your abilities, this PrC gives you alternatives. If you're an arcane spellcaster of some other sort in a party with a Cleric, dipping into Cloaked Dancer could also make sense if you're building for specific types of scenarios rather than hoping to solve all problems with more spells.

Generally speaking, Cloaked Dancer is not a good class. You've got to look at what sets it apart from other classes to decide if those abilities are worthwhile for your character. The only thing I can see is something that works like Bardic Music but without making noise.

[Masakan]

There are few ways to get Bardic Music effects without broadcasting your presence to all nearby enemies; Cloaked Dancer is one of them. But how often are you going to be in a scenario where you need a Silence spell to fight nearby enemies yet not attract the attention of enemies in the next room/around a corner?

Bards get Silence and have arcane spellcasting; that's probably the most likely entry into Cloaked Dancer. If you like the Bard class but hate that you've got to make noise all the time to use your abilities, this PrC gives you alternatives. If you're an arcane spellcaster of some other sort in a party with a Cleric, dipping into Cloaked Dancer could also make sense if you're building for specific types of scenarios rather than hoping to solve all problems with more spells.

Generally speaking, Cloaked Dancer is not a good class. You've got to look at what sets it apart from other classes to decide if those abilities are worthwhile for your character. The only thing I can see is something that works like Bardic Music but without making noise.

Well keep in mind, I want my character to be combat capable just not the main focus. More alluring and diplomatic than inspiring and in your face, catch my drift?

[nedz]

Well these are the obvious issues

It's not Full BAB
2/5 spellcasting is unimpressive
The dances only work 1/day on any target
Surprise Strike only works on people who have failed a save against the dance

[Troacctid]

Ok then answer this, is there any Prestige class that has 6+ Skill points per level,Full or near full spell progression and gives bardic music to some degree, and before you say anything I wanna hold off on heartfire fanner since many don't like Dragon magazine.

Yes. Virtuoso.

There's also Dwarven Chanter and Halfling Whistler, if you meet their racial requirements. (Halfling Whistler doesn't technically give you bardic music, but it's a similar ability.) And Troubadour of Stars is half-casting, which is still better than Cloaked Dancer, and it actually gives good abilities instead of crap. If you're willing to settle for 4 + Int on skills, then there's also Stormsinger, Lyric Thaumaturge, and Sublime Chord, all of which are very good. And of course, if variant classes are on the table, then there's Prestige Bard.

Cloaked Dancer does not qualify under your criteria, BTW, as it does not give any bardic music abilities or stack for bardic music at all.

[Masakan]

Yes. Virtuoso.

There's also Dwarven Chanter and Halfling Whistler, if you meet their racial requirements. (Halfling Whistler doesn't technically give you bardic music, but it's a similar ability.) And Troubadour of Stars is half-casting, which is still better than Cloaked Dancer, and it actually gives good abilities instead of crap. If you're willing to settle for 4 + Int on skills, then there's also Stormsinger, Lyric Thaumaturge, and Sublime Chord, all of which are very good. And of course, if variant classes are on the table, then there's Prestige Bard.

Cloaked Dancer does not qualify under your criteria, BTW, as it does not give any bardic music abilities or stack for bardic music at all.
Storm singer is pretty good...but that feat tax is almost as bad as sublime chords. And I really wanted to like trobadour of stars....but the casting is just too low for me to justify it.

[Troacctid]

Storm singer is pretty good...but that feat tax is almost as bad as sublime chords. And I really wanted to like trobadour of stars....but the casting is just too low for me to justify it.

Sublime Chord doesn't have a feat tax. Troubadour of Stars has the same casting progression as Cloaked Dancer.

[Masakan]

Sublime Chord doesn't have a feat tax. Troubadour of Stars has the same casting progression as Cloaked Dancer.

I'm sorry skill tax, but yeah Either way I had a feeling virtuoso is my best move.