Emo?

[Shadow of the Sun]

Hello people! The local OCD Music nerd with nothing better to do has decided to make a new thread.

What is your opinion on emo music? Not emos themselves, but emo music?

Personally, I can stand it, it isn't too bad- there are even a few emo bands I, Metal McBluesman, really like. I'm not overmuch a fan of pop-punk, but emo I can stand.

The emo band I like is called Finabah. (http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=55011152) A local band. Click on that link to get to their MySpace which has a song on it.

Your thoughts?

[Dr._Weird]

Generally I hate emo music. It's too whiney for me. However, one of my favorite metal bands, Ill Niño, is emo. While it annoys me, there's just something irresistable about Latino culture influenced metal.

[dr.cello]

Not that I dislike emo music as such, but I have seriously never heard a collection of music where so many bands sound so exactly like each other. It sort of turns me off to actually getting into it.

[Shadow of the Sun]

Not all emo is hyper whiny.

Finabah, for example, aren't overly whiny. I also like their clean vocalists voice, despite the fact ti has that twang in it, he is a good singer.

[GolemsVoice]

I generaly don't like Emo, for the reasons that they look, sound and sing all the same, more or less. It just isn't my style. But I also don't hate it. YOu can listen to Emo music for a while, but at some time it will start to repeat itself.

[LCR]

Well, someone told me Linkin Park is emo. I like early Linkin Park (Hybrid Theory, parts of Meteora), so I guess I like (or at least liked, when I was younger) emo.
Today, I'm mostly into Oasis, BRMC, JET etc. Maybe that's a phase most people go through in their teenage years.

[Jerthanis]

I don't quite get what makes people hate Emo music so much on the whole. It's not a singularly fantastic genre, but I don't really get the point of making fun of music for it being whiny, since genuinely sad songs aren't criticized in the same way. Perhaps I don't understand the distinction between crying with your face in your hands and uh... standing on tall things with a devastated look on one's face. Some people have told me it's because of technical shortcomings in emo music, but surely people sucking at playing music can't be all encompassing within a genre. The complaint of them all sounding almost exactly alike makes a lot of sense, but I'm sure that if you tried I'm sure anyone could find at least a few bands they like within the emo genre, and which perhaps don't sound exactly the same.

I guess I just don't feel strongly enough to hate it, so I don't quite understand people who do.

[Closet_Skeleton]

Well, someone told me Linkin Park is emo. I like early Linkin Park (Hybrid Theory, parts of Meteora), so I guess I like (or at least liked, when I was younger) emo.

That's the problem for me. How is Linken Park Emo? Emo is just a label people shove on whiny stuff nowadays.

I'll tell you what I think of Emo when someone tells me what it is supposed to be as a genre. When people are just yelling it about as an insult I can't form an opinion.

[Sereneprophet]

Supposedly most of the music I listen to is emo and whatnot (MCR, Used, +44, TBS, Underoath, Rock Kills Kid, Hawthorne Heights, FoB, P!atD, etc)

I dunno, I like the lyrics. They might be whiny sometimes, but at least the message is somewhat relatable and meaningful, compared to other types of music. At least to me.

I guess I think the whole "Emo" thing in and of itself in todays culture is pretty retarded and moronic. But everyone needs to call something they hate something, and Emo is now that word :P

So yeah, I like Emo, punk, post hardcore, alt, and whatever else they happen to group what I like with. I tell ya, nowadays there are so many sub genres of music, its crazy.

[PlatinumJester]

Linkin Park are class but the rest kinda sucks.

[Hoggy]

I like some 'emo', I guess. But I find 'emo' to be an incredibly subjective term. After all, a fair amount of 'metal' these days has whiny lyrics and sounds whiny, but apparantly isn't 'emo'. I'm talking about bands like Trivium, Bullet For My Valentine etc.

Obviously, 'emo' goes beyond lyrics, yes. My Dying Bride is possibly the most depressing bunch of beautiful noise I'll ever hear, but it's not 'emo' in my books. Same goes for Agalloch.

Therefore, it obviously comes down to the defenition of 'emo' being used. So for now, I'll say I like some of it.

[zeratul]

Here arer the emo bands I know

Panic! At The Disco
Dashboard Confessional
Simple Plan
Lincoln Park
my chemical romance

Suffice it to say that I am not a fan of these bands, accept dashboard confessional which I kinda like.

[Theodora]

Well, I do not like emo or alternative music, but that's my taste. I don't think we should judge much someone about his/her taste in music. Emo is just too calm for me. That's why I listen to metal. When I need relaxation I listen to classical music, because I really can't stand emo music sometimes.:smallconfused:

[Amotis]

Gravity Records baby! :smallbiggrin:

My high school was filled with emocore/screamo bands. Seriously, it was like the punk/new wave thing. Either you were emo or screamo. Which are basically the same thing (basically...).

San Diego = Screamo and Bluegrass.

Iono...I like first wave stuff. More then later stuff, that is.

[Totally Guy]

I didn't realise Emo was a music I thought it was just the new name for Goths. Yes I am aware that there are many Goths that still prefer their original name and are now different from the other one.

Win tickets to see Mikey McRomance, complete the following sentence in no more than 15 words!

To me Emo is... finding an online discussion and laughing at people using the word "bangs".

[FdL]

I like Rites of Spring, Pretty Girls Make Graves and Rainer Maria. I don't listen to emo bands but those are the closest, AFAIK, and probably removed from the idea others here have of emo. I don't care for labels anyway. But the problem with generically-self-conscious music is that is usually unoriginal and limited. I like my music to be creative and challenging, not a pose. And that is the reason why I think emo is crap.

[Jieze]

Like most people here, I'm confused over the definition of Emo music.

However, Linkin Park are the Shiznit, and that band you linked to weren't half bad either.

If that's what most Emo music is like, then Emo me up, sir. :smallredface:

[Catch]

First of all, that word means nothing anymore. It's not a genre, it's a label, and almost always derogatory.

That said, go for the classics. All of this poppy new stuff is just for making money off of shallow scenesters with no taste, and the term gets thrown around so much that half the time it isn't applicable.

Ex: Rites of Spring, Embrace, One Last Wish, Sunny Day Real Estate, The Get Up Kids, Bright Eyes, ect.

All good stuff. Basically, tread carefully with anything after 2000 or so.

[Nightmarenny]

I didn't realise Emo was a music I thought it was just the new name for Goths. Yes I am aware that there are many Goths that still prefer their original name and are now different from the other one.

Win tickets to see Mikey McRomance, complete the following sentence in no more than 15 words!

To me Emo is... finding an online discussion and laughing at people using the word "bangs".

No Emo and Goth are completly different.

Emo-
Bland Color's
Studded belts
Shorthair long bangs
Eye Shadow(sometimes)
Pop-punk-ish music

Goth-
Black
Studs
Black hair
Metal(music)
Love morbid humor
Zombies
Vampires

Emo is something of a "new Punk" Young people embracing a similer dress and becoming the numbered outcast.

Goth is just about an obssestion with the morbidity of life. Horror movies and things.


One thing they share though is the people's misunderstand how the people act.

Emo's don't act very depressed. They act pretty much like other kids. It isn't a bunch of kids sitting around crying. Its a bunch of kid doing what teenagers do.

Goths are not all "Life is pointless" they are infact about the silliest people I have every known. They are wild and simply love the Dark stuff.


Here arer the emo bands I know

Panic! At The Disco
Dashboard Confessional
Simple Plan
Lincoln Park
my chemical romance

Suffice it to say that I am not a fan of these bands, accept dashboard confessional which I kinda like.

Panic at the Disco ain't Emo. I honestly have no idea what they are but they ain't emo. There isn't Whining there's, Its like Dance Rock is the best I could discribe it.

My Chemical Romance is something like Queen and the current standard of music combined.

Other than that I don't see anything really similer to Simple Plan and Lincoln Park.

Honestly their is no such thing as "emo" music. Its nonsense.

[Shadow of the Sun]

Goth's don't listen too metal, trust me on this.

And I'm still a punk fan, almost got killed at a punk mosh to prove it.

[Nightmarenny]

Goth's don't listen too metal, trust me on this.

And I'm still a punk fan, almost got killed at a punk mosh to prove it.

All the Goths I know do. though honestly it isn't a nessesity as Goth has nothing(directly) to do with music. However Black Sabath and such seem natural for Goth.

PS If your Goth and like Punk music your probably Gothic Punk.

[Penguinsushi]

Here arer the emo bands I know

Panic! At The Disco
Dashboard Confessional
Simple Plan
Lincoln Park
my chemical romance

Suffice it to say that I am not a fan of these bands, accept dashboard confessional which I kinda like.

What the hell?

I've noticed that 'what is emo' seems to have morphed unrecognizably since it started. I wouldn't consider ANY of those bands to be emo. Dashboard probably comes the closest, but the band he was originally in (Further Seems Forever) is much moreso.

Here are some bands that are/were emo as I understand it:

(Note that not all of these bands consider themselves 'emo'.)

The Get Up Kids
Jets To Brazil
Mineral
Further Seems Forever
Rainer Maria
Mae
Jimmy Eat World (kinda sorta)
The Juliana Theory
The Promise Ring
Saves The Day
The Academy Is
Sunday's Best
Spoon (to a lesser extent)
The Weakerthans


...But really, music genres are pretty useless. What one person considers X, someone else considers Y. See above.

~PS

[Nightmarenny]

What the hell?

I've noticed that 'what is emo' seems to have morphed unrecognizably since it started. I wouldn't consider ANY of those bands to be emo. Dashboard probably comes the closest, but the band he was originally in (Further Seems Forever) is much moreso.

Here are some bands that are/were emo as I understand it:

(Note that not all of these bands consider themselves 'emo'.)

The Get Up Kids
Jets To Brazil
Mineral
Further Seems Forever
Rainer Maria
Mae
Jimmy Eat World (kinda sorta)
The Juliana Theory
The Promise Ring
Saves The Day
The Academy Is
Sunday's Best
Spoon (to a lesser extent)
The Weakerthans


...But really, music genres are pretty useless. What one person considers X, someone else considers Y. See above.

~PS

Genres are fine. Its subgenres that really destroy any semblance of order. You know everything that is in Jazz or Rock or Punk or Metal. But when it can't just be that things get crazy. When Green Day can't be Punk cause its slightly differant and is Pop-Punk or Emo(to some people). Or Disturbed isn't Metal but nu, or whatever. Thats when the problem starts.

[Totally Guy]

Shorthair long bangs.

:smallbiggrin: :smalltongue: That still cracks me up.

[Mr Croup]

What the hell?

I've noticed that 'what is emo' seems to have morphed unrecognizably since it started.
Absolutely, as most of these sort of things do.

As for your list, yeah, when I think emo, I think Jets To Brazil, Saves The Day, and Hot Water Music.

I just can't get over the use of emo and goth as interchangeable terms.

As far as what goths listen to, well that of course can be anything, as the subculture isn't necessarily tied to music, but if I were going to pigeonhole it, I'd say that funnily enough goths tend to listen to goth music. Crazy, I know. Bands like Bauhaus, Siouxsie and the Banshees, Sisters of Mercy, and The Cure (at least in the early days).

[Nightmarenny]

:smallbiggrin: :smalltongue: That still cracks me up.

The concept or the way I worded it? Because I seriously have no idea what to call it.

[Dragor]

:smallbiggrin: :smalltongue: That still cracks me up.

Please tell me you didn't think of it in that sense. :smalltongue: because I sure did.

I have nothing against Emo music in particular- in fact, I usually think Emo girls are pretty hot.... hormonal teenager instincts aside, though, I don't mind the music, as long as people don't take it too seriously.

[Amotis]

Sp-sp-spoon is emo? :smalleek:

What about them is hardcore, screamo, or emocore? How about none?

They're named after a Can song for heaven's sake! How about no?

Also...Bright Eyes? No judging books on their covers. No seriously...emo is more of a punk sound. Bright Eyes is more folk (almost all).

[Penguinsushi]

Absolutely, as most of these sort of things do.

As for your list, yeah, when I think emo, I think Jets To Brazil, Saves The Day, and Hot Water Music.

I just can't get over the use of emo and goth as interchangeable terms.

As far as what goths listen to, well that of course can be anything, as the subculture isn't necessarily tied to music, but if I were going to pigeonhole it, I'd say that funnily enough goths tend to listen to goth music. Crazy, I know. Bands like Bauhaus, Siouxsie and the Banshees, Sisters of Mercy, and The Cure (at least in the early days).

*sigh of relief* Good. Glad to hear I'm not the only one. :smallsmile:

It doesn't really bother me that/if the terms have changed - I was just *really* confused when I started reading the thread...


Sp-sp-spoon is emo? :smalleek:

What about them is hardcore, screamo, or emocore? How about none?

They're named after a Can song for heaven's sake! How about no?

Also...Bright Eyes? No judging books on their covers. No seriously...emo is more of a punk sound. Bright Eyes is more folk (almost all).

Eh, Spoon made my list because they remind me of bands like Jets to Brazil.

If you use Dashboard as your 'emo baseline' (like some people have), then Bright Eyes fits in pretty well. I like Bright Eyes quite a bit, but I don't really consider him emo. Not all of emo (as I understand it) is punkish. Some of it is, other is has a more low-key sound.

~PS

[Mr Croup]

*sigh of relief* Good. Glad to hear I'm not the only one. :smallsmile:

It doesn't really bother me that/if the terms have changed - I was just *really* confused when I started reading the thread...

~PS

Yeah, I think it has something to do with the fact that we're the same age, and most likely were exposed to the term and the genre in the "second wave" of emo, when it was really dominated by local or regional acts. I remember being dragged by a friend to a Hot Water Music show at my college, and having them ask for gas money for the van.

Personally I've never been able to stand the genre, or at least the bands that I associate with it. Then again, I'm really of the same opinion with what seems to be emo nowadays.

[Totally Guy]

The concept or the way I worded it? Because I seriously have no idea what to call it.

I'm not making fun of you. It just happens to mean something different where I am.

In my day we got Townies and Goths. Then the word Townie way replaced with Chav. I need to ask my little brother to explain it all again as after that point I get lost amongst subcultures.

I do know that my hometown morris dancers have started dressing in black costumes and ragged blue. Maybe it's part of their influence. Traditionally A morris dances dresses in red and yellow or some equally offensive colour schemes.

How am I supposed to keep up to date? Do you think anyone will chronicle these youth movement for when they get to reminisce.

[FdL]

Yeah, labels are bull****. But there's people who actively perpetuate them, and so they're bull**** too.

@Penguinsushi: Yeah, Sunny Day Real State is really good too, I like the Diary album. But those are to some extent the originators of the movement, and as such you can't really call them emo. I need to explain that I consider emo to be a pejorative term.

Spoon is not emo. You can't really say Spoon belong to any genre other than "indie", which is broad enough, and maybe just "rock". Because if there's a widly creative, self-reinventing rock band these days, it's Spoon.

Bright Eyes? Is more of a young folk singer/songwriter, who's sometimes passionate about his music (in a pretty adolescent way) and so sometimes screams :p In that respect he could be considered emo, but it's not the best example.

Then you have to define what is emo too see why you dumped Spoon there. Is it the sound? Because I think bunching people who make post-hardcore punky guitar music is too broad. Even Spoon are way beyond their roots as a typical punkish band inspired by the Pixies and Wire (though they ****ing ruled at that) (Is it because the singer screams sometimes?)

I think the best way to identify an "authentic emo band" is see if their members/audience are wearing their emo uniforms. That's a clue :D


To me emo is a poser genre, a cookie-cutter musical trend that's based on expressing really trite teenage angst sentiments, in a really laughable way. It represents all that is wrong with unoriginal music and teenagers who lose their individuality trying to be accepted by their peers. Pretty much like any of these "tribes" or cliques, like goths for example, only that goths listen to better music I guess :D (though probably no one knows who The Cure, Bauhaus, Joy Division, Siouxie and those people are. Here in Argentina there's a disgusting streak of Marilyn Manson derived goths. Boy is that ugly :s)

[Rainspattered]

I don't quite get what makes people hate Emo music so much on the whole. It's not a singularly fantastic genre, but I don't really get the point of making fun of music for it being whiny, since genuinely sad songs aren't criticized in the same way.

Emo's more inherently ridiculous; it's what would happen if Jim Steinman mistook himself for a punk, at the same time as he mistook himself for a glam rocker, and then got really drunk, watched a slide show of everything negative in his life, and wrote an album about it. I'm not kidding. Look at their song titles. They're like a Jim Steinman without the sense of self-mockery.


I didn't realise Emo was a music I thought it was just the new name for Goths. Yes I am aware that there are many Goths that still prefer their original name and are now different from the other one.
No. Goth is a subculture of punk which ties in more directly to punk's glam roots, while taking its themes from Victorian-era works (Wuthering Heights, Notre Dame de Paris, Les Fleurs du Mal, et ceteras) in addition to the current social climate, and noir films. Cyberpunk literature later became influential, as well. They added a pacifist component vacant from much early punk, though this wasn't universal, and a credo of universal acceptance of religion, ethnicity, and sexuality to combat the growing nazi sentiments prevalent in European punk. Goth bands weren't inherently more "emotional" than punk, as emo was intended to be. Many were much less so; Bahaus versus the Clash, for instance. Even Joy Division was more concerned with psycho-analysis than emotion; Ian Curtis stated he commited suicide not out of sorrow but because he didn't really find a reason for himself to live, when he thought about it.


No Emo and Goth are completly different.

Emo-
Bland Color's
Studded belts
Shorthair long bangs
Eye Shadow(sometimes)
Pop-punk-ish music

Goth-
Black
Studs
Black hair
Metal(music)
Love morbid humor
Zombies
Vampires

Emo is something of a "new Punk" Young people embracing a similer dress and becoming the numbered outcast.

Goth is just about an obssestion with the morbidity of life. Horror movies and things.
Well, this is a nice retreat to stereotype, ignoring the musical and ideological history of the two movements. Goth is based around the morbidity of life only to the degree that it, in the afformentioned victorian fashion, is concerned primarily with love, death, and religion.
Emo is also very different from punk, other than being a subculture themed around music. One was dedicated to a nihilistic, anarchic, or existential rejection of government and traditional values in the face of a world to which they no longer applied and only acted as oppressive agents. Emo is about emotional isolation, which might qualify as existential, at the closest. They have some musical similarities, maybe even some fashion similiarities, but they're very different.


One thing they share though is the people's misunderstand how the people act.

Emo's don't act very depressed. They act pretty much like other kids. It isn't a bunch of kids sitting around crying. Its a bunch of kid doing what teenagers do.

Goths are not all "Life is pointless" they are infact about the silliest people I have every known. They are wild and simply love the Dark stuff.
Indeed, because they are all the same. One cannot be a goth unless one is silly, one cannot be Emo unless one acts as a normal kid.

EDIT: I fail to see Bright Eyes as emo; most of their/his emotional music concerns his alcoholism. He's operating in the much more glam rock/punk tradition (as also noted in his political activism) of Degenerate extraordinaire; the poetic loser. See: Iggy Pop, Johnny Thunders, Jim Morrison.

[Sereneprophet]

Eh, most of that all makes pretty good sense. I dunno though, because for me, the bands I listen to, I enjoy the music. I enjoy the lyrics, the composition, the individual instruments blending together to make something that is pleasant for my ears.

I will agree that there are those that sound alike, but I think you find that in any genre.


As for how I dress and stuff, I probably have some emo clothes and stuff, but for the most part I just pick something I feel makes me look good. I like black, red, or brown button up shirts, dress pants, cargo's, novelty t-shirts.

I just have fun with how I dress, I dont really care if its the "in" thing or not, so long as it compliments my sense of style.

I mean, I think alot of the "Emo" look can look good on people, and on others not. Same with "Goth" and whatever else. I mean ill be honest and say "Emo" and "Goth" dressed girls tend to appeal to me more than other "fashions" but whatever.

I tend not to really worry about it, and only get annoyed when the word "Emo" is used to insult anything that someone doesnt like. Same with people calling everything they hate "Gay". I mean I catch myself saying "Oh this is freakin gay" but I change it, cause theres no reason to insult homosexuals by saying something bad is "Gay".

I see it as the same thing, so thats the only reason I can get ticked off over it. Whatever people wanna think of me, they can, I'm more concerned about what I think of me..maybe im just narcissistic, but blah :P

Oh...and I definitely do not like the whole guys wearing girls pants thing that can be associated with "emo". Its like...no.

[Nightmarenny]

Emo's more inherently ridiculous; it's what would happen if Jim Steinman mistook himself for a punk, at the same time as he mistook himself for a glam rocker, and then got really drunk, watched a slide show of everything negative in his life, and wrote an album about it. I'm not kidding. Look at their song titles. They're like a Jim Steinman without the sense of self-mockery.


No. Goth is a subculture of punk which ties in more directly to punk's glam roots, while taking its themes from Victorian-era works (Wuthering Heights, Notre Dame de Paris, Les Fleurs du Mal, et ceteras) in addition to the current social climate, and noir films. Cyberpunk literature later became influential, as well. They added a pacifist component vacant from much early punk, though this wasn't universal, and a credo of universal acceptance of religion, ethnicity, and sexuality to combat the growing nazi sentiments prevalent in European punk. Goth bands weren't inherently more "emotional" than punk, as emo was intended to be. Many were much less so; Bahaus versus the Clash, for instance. Even Joy Division was more concerned with psycho-analysis than emotion; Ian Curtis stated he commited suicide not out of sorrow but because he didn't really find a reason for himself to live, when he thought about it.


Well, this is a nice retreat to stereotype, ignoring the musical and ideological history of the two movements. Goth is based around the morbidity of life only to the degree that it, in the afformentioned victorian fashion, is concerned primarily with love, death, and religion.
Emo is also very different from punk, other than being a subculture themed around music. One was dedicated to a nihilistic, anarchic, or existential rejection of government and traditional values in the face of a world to which they no longer applied and only acted as oppressive agents. Emo is about emotional isolation, which might qualify as existential, at the closest. They have some musical similarities, maybe even some fashion similiarities, but they're very different.


Indeed, because they are all the same. One cannot be a goth unless one is silly, one cannot be Emo unless one acts as a normal kid.

EDIT: I fail to see Bright Eyes as emo; most of their/his emotional music concerns his alcoholism. He's operating in the much more glam rock/punk tradition (as also noted in his political activism) of Degenerate extraordinaire; the poetic loser. See: Iggy Pop, Johnny Thunders, Jim Morrison.
You have so completely missed my points.

1.Emo is the "new punk" in that it is an underground fasion, social trend, and music scene held mostly by distgruntled youths in sociaty. I gave no futher connection.

2.When comparing the two sects I found the most common atitude's, styles and so on of emo's and Goths. Yes its a stereotype because they like all people are so diverse that I could sit here comparing and contrasting for hours and still not get the whole picture. So I generalized. I found the things that the people are most known for and then I gave a brief descriptions of Goth culture because it encompases alot but generally its all morbid.

3.No Goths don't HAVE to be silly. I did not insinuate that. I can speak only from personal experience and around here Goths are silly. And normal kid only implies that they are not what people expect from Emo(Whinny "Oh, my life sucks, guess what terrible thing happened now, I have a hang-nail!").

[Amotis]

I fail to see Bright Eyes as emo; most of their/his emotional music concerns his alcoholism. He's operating in the much more glam rock/punk tradition (as also noted in his political activism) of Degenerate extraordinaire; the poetic loser. See: Iggy Pop, Johnny Thunders, Jim Morrison.

*gasp* How dare you name artists compared to Bright Eyes and call him a poetic loser and not even name the one he takes after the most, even beyond the effortless Bob Dylan comparisons. Why, the man who wrote a book called "Beautiful Losers."

Leonard Cohen, of course. :smallbiggrin:

[Reptilus]

1.Emo is the "new punk" in that it is an underground fasion, social trend, and music scene held mostly by distgruntled youths in sociaty. I gave no futher connection.
In this level, Rap and Alt-Country could be said to be the "new punk." My point was that, beyond the vaguest generalizations, they're largely dissimilar.


2.When comparing the two sects I found the most common atitude's, styles and so on of emo's and Goths. Yes its a stereotype because they like all people are so diverse that I could sit here comparing and contrasting for hours and still not get the whole picture. So I generalized. I found the things that the people are most known for and then in faI gave a brief descriptions of Goth culture because it encompases alot but generally its all morbid.
However, in going for the largely unbased stereotype, you leave out the actual history, origins, and themes of the movement. Secondly, Goth culture isn't entirely morbid, or even that largely morbid. Social themes, religious themes, and romantic themes are all equally common.


3.No Goths don't HAVE to be silly. I did not insinuate that.
Indeed, you said it outright.

I can speak only from personal experience and around here Goths are silly. And normal kid only implies that they are not what people expect from Emo(Whinny "Oh, my life sucks, guess what terrible thing happened now, I have a hang-nail!").
I've never heard emo characters described as whinny; that descriptor is reserved, in my experiences for the sound a horse makes or people named Winston. Aside from that, there are some who act that way. My point that "people are wrong, they do not act this way, they act this way" gives a false impression of universalism.

Amotis: It was simply too obvious. There is only so far I will belabour a point, and referencing him twice in the same description is too far. Good catch on the "beautiful losers" reference, though.

EDIT: Alas, my double-identity comes to the fore.

[Nightmarenny]

In this level, Rap and Alt-Country could be said to be the "new punk." My point was that, beyond the vaguest generalizations, they're largely dissimilar.


However, in going for the largely unbased stereotype, you leave out the actual history, origins, and themes of the movement. Secondly, Goth culture isn't entirely morbid, or even that largely morbid. Social themes, religious themes, and romantic themes are all equally common.


Indeed, you said it outright.

I've never heard emo characters described as whinny; that descriptor is reserved, in my experiences for the sound a horse makes or people named Winston. Aside from that, there are some who act that way. My point that "people are wrong, they do not act this way, they act this way" gives a false impression of universalism.

Amotis: It was simply too obvious. There is only so far I will belabour a point, and referencing him twice in the same description is too far. Good catch on the "beautiful losers" reference, though.

EDIT: Alas, my double-identity comes to the fore.
I have done alittle research and discovered that there is alot more to both Emo and Goth. I apologize for coming into an arguement with half-assed understanding. There, now with that done I'm going go ahead and go off on you.

Whinny yes I misspelled Whiney or whatever. Mocking certainly helped make you point. thank you so very much.

Wow. Are completly incapable of inferring anything? Fine here's version for the literal minded.

"In my personal experience, with the social group that calls themselfs Goths I have noticed that a large majority of them are rather silly. Silly meaning socially free and willing to interact, in uncommon ways, and lacking serious-ness. This is ofcourse in compareson to the stereotype of the kid that spends his time discussing the meanlessness of life and being in general depressing."

Yeah thats so very much better because its twice as long and spoon feeds you the infomation. Bah:smallannoyed:

P.S.What ideology does Rap embody?

[smellie_hippie]

Yay for being too old to understand what the hell you all are talking about.

I don't recognize any of those bands.
I fail to understand what "emo" is.

If I can just push some of this gray hair out of my face while I am typing this... I can ask a few simple questions. If "emo" is the new "punk"... and "punk" was a movement in the 70s.... why the need for a new name to label an old concept? :smallconfused:

Edit: @v Ok. That helps with the concept. Please don't assume that I am being mean or belittling either.... just trying to clear up the picture. A co-worker was suggesting that The Cure, Smashing Pumpkins and Depeche Mode might also fit as "emo... is that accurate?

[Nightmarenny]

Yay for being too old to understand what the hell you all are talking about.

I don't recognize any of those bands.
I fail to understand what "emo" is.

If I can just push some of this gray hair out of my face while I am typing this... I can ask a few simple questions. If "emo" is the new "punk"... and "punk" was a movement in the 70s.... why the need for a new name to label an old concept? :smallconfused:

Its not new punk as in same ideology but(IMO) fills the same social niche that Punk did(a does).

[Catch]

Edit: @v Ok. That helps with the concept. Please don't assume that I am being mean or belittling either.... just trying to clear up the picture. A co-worker was suggesting that The Cure, Smashing Pumpkins and Depeche Mode might also fit as "emo... is that accurate?

Nuh-uh. The label "emo" is different from the genre, so bands with certain images or lyric content tend to get lumped together.

I could go into a long diatribe about origins and band histories, or I could just link the Wiki. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emocore) It's pretty objective, so take a peek.

[Amotis]

Note that Emo on wiki is both a genre of music and a slang term.

[Catch]

Note that Emo on wiki is both a genre of music and a slang term.

Mhmm. Knowing the difference tends to clear up the disparities between the general perception and the actual music.

[Raven T.]

Music that is usually labeled "emo" depresses me, therefore, I do not care for it as a rule.

[Rainspattered]

Whinny yes I misspelled Whiney or whatever. Mocking certainly helped make you point. thank you so very much.
That was a tad pedantic, I'll admit. My apologies.


Wow. Are completly incapable of inferring anything? Fine here's version for the literal minded.
I infer as is reasonable; when you post Goths are, followed by a colon, it gives an impression of generality and implied versimillitude on the part of the writer. I can now understand that you didn't mean it that way, but I honestly don't believe it's that wrong of me to have taken it as such.


P.S.What ideology does Rap embody?
Rap, as a genre, doesn't embody a specific ideology. Often, the goal of racial equality or the theme of racial prejudice is brought up, as are the socio-economic conditions from which the speaker came, most often a poor, urban setting. Though some rap emphasizes country roots, it is in a minority. Trip-hop and much gangsta rap is said to promote hedonism, though I do not necessarily agree.

[selfcritical]

Well, someone told me Linkin Park is emo. I like early Linkin Park (Hybrid Theory, parts of Meteora), so I guess I like (or at least liked, when I was younger) emo.
Today, I'm mostly into Oasis, BRMC, JET etc. Maybe that's a phase most people go through in their teenage years.

None of the above bands would be considered emo bands. It's a punk offshoot that focuses on certain types of vocals. The pixes and fugazi are common influences, as are weezer. The "whiny" image has more to do with the perception of the fans than the actual content of the music. Except for dashboard confessional. They are in fact exactly like that.

Emo bands I can think of off the top of my head
Ultimate Fakebook
Coheed and Cambria
At the drive in
Sparta
Cursive

[Hoggy]

Just for the record, as a C&C fan, I can't see how they're emo.

[FdL]

And I don't think At the Drive In were emo.

[SDF]

At the Drive-In is post-hardcore.

There are almost no actual emo bands listed. Even early stuff like Sunny Day Real Estate would be emocore. Almost every band listed after 2000 is alternative rock. The current fashion trends accredited(incorrectly) to the term 'emo' do make me want to curb stomp a kitten.

[Catch]

Just for the record, as a C&C fan, I can't see how they're emo.

Coheed & Cambria is not emo in terms of genre, no. Instead, they're generally placed under the Alt. Rock umbrella, which seems to grow broader every day.

Since Claudio has a high pitched voice and some angsty lyrics, the emo label is tossed out here and there. If you want to dissect things, Emo is more of a punk sound, and Co&Ca has more metal influences.

The style of emo and the perception are totally different.


There are almost no actual emo bands listed. Even early stuff like Sunny Day Real Estate would be emocore.

Emocore IS emo. That's where the term comes from. The newer stuff that lacks the hardcore sound tends to be indie/emo, which is about as broad as the term should be stretched.

Of course, any band with a significant emotional display can wear the label (and are often stuck with it), so most definitions are moot.

[Samiam303]

Good lord, Nightmarenny is trying to argue Emo AGAIN?! :wink:

I think Amotis hit the nail on the head by mentioning that there's a difference between the "emo" genera and the slang term "emo". I won't pretend to know anything about the original emo/emocore/whatever bands that have been mentioned, but I'll venture to guess that they don't sound anything like what's emo today. Whether they fit what used to be the "emo" genera at all, what's considered "emo" by most today is the bands like Fall Out Boy, Panic! at the Disco, The Academy Is..., My Chemical Romance, Etc. While in my opinion they do all sound pretty much the same, they're not lumped together so much as a genera as because of the common whiny FEEL of the music. It's a different thing from the emo genera.

[Nightmarenny]

Good lord, Nightmarenny is trying to argue Emo AGAIN?! :wink:

I think Amotis hit the nail on the head by mentioning that there's a difference between the "emo" genera and the slang term "emo". I won't pretend to know anything about the original emo/emocore/whatever bands that have been mentioned, but I'll venture to guess that they don't sound anything like what's emo today. Whether they fit what used to be the "emo" genera at all, what's considered "emo" by most today is the bands like Fall Out Boy, Panic! at the Disco, The Academy Is..., My Chemical Romance, Etc. While in my opinion they do all sound pretty much the same, they're not lumped together so much as a genera as because of the common whiny FEEL of the music. It's a different thing from the emo genera.
MEAN*rasberry*

I have two serious questions to ask. Several statments in this post as well as before confound me to no end and I must ask for a direct opinion or I'll go mad.

1.Do MyChem and Fall Out Boy really sound alike? I seriously hear as much similarity as any two rock bands of a specific time period. Enough habits that you can tell what time there from but not enough that you'd say "hey you know who kinda sound alike?"

2.That Mychem and Fall Out Boy and Panic? sound whiney? When I think band that whine I think "simple Plan, The Academy is.." stuff like that but those three bands don't come to mind. Also for FOB is it the Vibrato that Patrick use's? 'cause I'm confused.

:smalleek:

[BanjoTheClown]

Emo Music is The Best!

[MolotovH]

smellie_hippie knows more than he (she?) thinks...

I'm going to stick my neck out here and say that The Cure was the ORIGINAL "emo" band, the mold from which all others were eventually formed. Dashboard Confessional could then be considered to be the final degradation of this evolution, the last step before the spectrum collapses into self-indulgent whining unrecognizable as music as such.

I'm just saying, is all. :smalltongue:

Although, there is a major misunderstanding going on here: I'm pretty certain that "emo is the new punk," was an analogy, not a literalism. In other words, the original poster meant, "Emo is to the current generation what punk was to Generation X." That is, it is a musical genre which has become popular largely due to its relevance to contemporary lifestyle and societal conditions, just as punk helped fill a societal void in the late '70's.

[SDF]

The Cure is the archetypical goth band, not really emo at all. Along with Bauhaus and a few others they pioneered the genre.

[Catch]

The Cure is the archetypical goth band, not really emo at all. Along with Bauhaus and a few others they pioneered the genre.

That's right. Robert Smith's moody lyrics certainly fit the label of "emo," but that's not what emo is--it's nothing.


Although, there is a major misunderstanding going on here: I'm pretty certain that "emo is the new punk," was an analogy, not a literalism. In other words, the original poster meant, "Emo is to the current generation what punk was to Generation X." That is, it is a musical genre which has become popular largely due to its relevance to contemporary lifestyle and societal conditions, just as punk helped fill a societal void in the late '70's.

That's the thing--it's not.

Emo is not a genre. There isn't even an accurate definition of what constitutes "emo," other than being moody or whiny, which is already quite subjective. The word "emo" is derogatory slang, not a music term.

Emo is not relevant to the contemporary lifestyle of today's youth. By the current "definition" (read: label), emo is neither rebellious, poignant, significant or meaningful. Kids don't find identity in emo music, nor does it create a cohesive group of like-minded individuals.

By contrast and in a nutshell, punk was based on the radical (and perhaps violent) rejection of conformity, consumerism, sexism, racism, nationalism, especially authoritarian and capitalist governments. Punk had distinct fashion, music, literature and art, and members of the punk scene were easily identifiable. Punk was a true subculture.

In no way does "emo" fit that definition, as "emo" is not a subculture.

"The Scene," however, which contains a large part of the emo label, does provide a larger group culture, albeit in a largely different way than punk did at its inception. There aren't any unifying ideals or goals in the scene, nor is there a prominent style of music. Scene fashion is the lowest common denominator, what generally defines members, and music is only a gateway to acceptance. It certainly provides some sense of a group for young people to feel like they belong, but it doesn't mean anything, nor is there any particular group unity. Rather, the scene is an amalgamation of multiple subcultures, a cesspool of young people that want to feel significant, but can't see free thinking for consumerism.

[FdL]

Good post, Catch. Now we're getting closer.

There's also some degree of truth to the fact that the existance of The Cure has contributed in some way to the existance of something we can call either descriptively or derogatorily "emo". The whiny and self-loathing, teenage angst attitudes taken right to the limit between seriousness and mockery are after all a degenerated evolution from the true emotional music that the first pre-goth bands like The Cure, Bauhaus and Joy Division made.

But I'd say there's been bands that have influenced "emo" before, or at other times. The Buzzcocks, who I consider to have influenced The Cure a lot. Then maybe things like Violent Femmes (this is only a guess), later stuff like Husker Dü maybe lyrically.

The point is "emo" takes the worst from their influences, maybe because it's ultimately a shallow "style" that features style/surface over meaning and content, or because of the way art is processed these days by the audience, that is, superficially and without "getting it".