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FrCerr
2015-09-15, 06:21 AM
Heyo everyone!
As shown in the title, there is this gestalt tournament (3.5) consisting in many rooms with enemies in it. It's pretty simple, when an enemy is defeated, we have 5 rounds to pick up our spoils and go to the next room, and so on...
By now we have:
-a knight/something that is focused on dps and keeping enemies still;
-a druid/cleric focused on tanking all the damage and also making some damage
-a psionic/red mage who buffs the entire team
-a guy (can't remember what classes) focused on debuffing everyone we'll find in front of us
-and me

As you can see the team is kinda complete even without me, so I think a bard//something would be good to buff allies a bit and joking around the room.
My idea was a bard11//binder11, but i never played neither of these two classes, and I kinda suck in optimization.
Can you guys help me?

Rules:
-level 11
-all manuals (with some exceptions) and some web resources (no dweomenkeeper and things like that)
-no multi-class-in-only-one-class progression (no classes that makes you proceed in two at the same time)
-no prestige classes at the same time
-obviously we will have no time to sleep, with all this concerns

Thanks very much for your help, any suggestion would be appreciated
(and sorry for my english btw)

[EDIT] : Thanks for all the suggestions! I really appreciate that.
I finally choose my classes, that will be bard x/(maybe)Luckstealer x// Dread Necromancer 11. I'm also looking for optimization in these two classes, and (obviously) I changed my role in debuffer, due to some changes in our lineup. Really thanks for all the suggestions

Vhaidara
2015-09-15, 03:21 PM
Well, the first thing we need to know is: you say all manuals, with exceptions. What exceptions.

DMVerdandi
2015-09-15, 03:51 PM
Are you positive that is what you want class-wise? You are going to be behind a couple of your team-mates for a WHILE.

So in the team you have:

1. A mundane tank [Hmm... Must be used to online games. In DND It is better to kill than defend]

2.A codzilla [holy smokes]

3.Red Mage (can't read what the other class you said was) who is focused on buffing.
Getting into red mage most likely means he is casting off the Wiz/Sorc list, so his buffs are going to be better than yours anyway.

4.A Debuffer.


So there are two things that I can immediately see that aren't there at all.
First is an offensive caster/Utility caster. Second is a skilled dude.
Now, bard COULD take care of your skilled dude, BUT, why would you settle for bard when you can play as a wizard/virtuoso with the quickness?


Here is my suggestions

1.Erudite (Dragon 319)/Warblade
This is if your DM doesn't give a damn. This is actually my first and best suggestion, BUT, it has low chance of success, so if it's too much, defer down to suggestion two and three.
It is technically the best combination, probably in the game.

You take the erudite from dragon magazine, you take the convert spell to power from the web, and you take the warblade.

Again this is psionic, but at the same time has the ability to absorb and understand spells. It LOOKS superbombad, but it really can be toned down dramatically for a game feel of something similar to like a tales series character.
It gets no better than this, and you can really flavor it however you want. It's just a dude with powers and fighting skills.

The best part is if you want to you can learn Bard spells with this , eventually coming full circle to what you were asking for in the first place.




[B]2.Psion/Psychic Rogue[Or lurk]
Again,Why not distinguish yourself by playing a psionic character? They are rather balanced and kick butt. Plus, you get to add your PP into one giant pool.
Adding in Psychic Rogue gets you a lot of skills as well, so you can really use that high intelligence bonus well.



3.Duskblade/Wizard
While not as potent as the warblade/Wizard (Which is also recommended), it does allow you to better wear armor,Channel touch spells, and gives you a FAT hit dice,

On the wizard side, you would be best suited to continue like so
wizard 5/War Weaver 5/Geometer5/Abjurant Champion 5

Alternatively, If you still want to be a bard, the best way is
Wizard 5/War Weaver 5/Virtuoso 10. Then you get virtuoso performances and still keep full wizard casting.

Zetapup
2015-09-15, 05:22 PM
If you want to go for a bard build, I'd prolly recommend bard//crusader. Crusader on the one half makes sure that you're not squishy and also gives some handy bufflike manuevers (white raven tactics to give an ally another turn, some devoted spirit manuevers to heal your allies/yourself whenever you hit people, etc). On the bard side, I would prolly go something like Bard 7/War Weaver 2/Virtuoso 1/Sublime Chord 1/Virtuoso 9 (advancing sublime chord spellcasting).

If you want to buff inspire courage, I'd recommend grabbing dragonfire inspiration, Song of the Heart (it's from Eberron, so it might not be allowed), Words of Creation, and a vest of legends, plus maybe the inspirational boost spell. Song of the Heart and Inspirational Boost each give you a plus one to your inspire courage bonus, and the vest of legends adds 5 to your effective bard level for inspire courage purposes (plus some other bardic music abilities, but they're not important for this), and then words of creation doubles your inspire courage bonus. The end result is that you and your allies either get a nice bonus to attack and damage (prolly something like +8 or so) or that many d6 of fire damage from dragonfire inspiration (or both if your dm lets them stack, which they should).

If you really want to work the "team buffing" angle, you could also pick up draconic aura, which gives you an aura that has some small but nice effects on nearby allies. The bonus(es) you give from this aura will grow a bit with you as you level since you should have the dragonblood subtype for dragonfire inspiration.

Overall, the build gives you a ton of options for buffing your allies, while still being able to hold your own in a melee fight from the crusader levels. You'll get high level spells from sublime chord and quite a few bardic music abilities from virtuoso. Hopefully this fits what you were looking for.

Dread_Head
2015-09-15, 07:30 PM
My recommendation would be Archivist 11 // Bard 7 / War Weaver 4. The dark knowledge feature of an archivist works beautifully with inspire courage as they use different actions to activate and provide different bonus types. The archivist spell list (all divine spells) contains pretty much every spell you could cast to buff your party and war weaver lets you cast them quickly, easily and to all your allies at once. The main problem is this build is a bit MAD but the Dynamic Priest feat from Legend of the Twins makes you mainly Cha focused.

For feats something like this: 1. Dynamic Priest, 3. Dragonfire Inspiration, 6. Enlarge Spell, 9. Words of Creation and at 12 pick up Chaos Music to catch back up with your bardic abilities.

FrCerr
2015-09-16, 05:45 AM
Well, the first thing we need to know is: you say all manuals, with exceptions. What exceptions.

I think the only exception was the Fiendish Codex if I well remember

FrCerr
2015-09-16, 05:50 AM
Are you positive that is what you want class-wise? You are going to be behind a couple of your team-mates for a WHILE.

So in the team you have:

1. A mundane tank [Hmm... Must be used to online games. In DND It is better to kill than defend]

2.A codzilla [holy smokes]

3.Red Mage (can't read what the other class you said was) who is focused on buffing.
Getting into red mage most likely means he is casting off the Wiz/Sorc list, so his buffs are going to be better than yours anyway.

4.A Debuffer.


So there are two things that I can immediately see that aren't there at all.
First is an offensive caster/Utility caster. Second is a skilled dude.
Now, bard COULD take care of your skilled dude, BUT, why would you settle for bard when you can play as a wizard/virtuoso with the quickness?


Here is my suggestions

1.Erudite (Dragon 319)/Warblade
This is if your DM doesn't give a damn. This is actually my first and best suggestion, BUT, it has low chance of success, so if it's too much, defer down to suggestion two and three.
It is technically the best combination, probably in the game.

You take the erudite from dragon magazine, you take the convert spell to power from the web, and you take the warblade.

Again this is psionic, but at the same time has the ability to absorb and understand spells. It LOOKS superbombad, but it really can be toned down dramatically for a game feel of something similar to like a tales series character.
It gets no better than this, and you can really flavor it however you want. It's just a dude with powers and fighting skills.

The best part is if you want to you can learn Bard spells with this , eventually coming full circle to what you were asking for in the first place.




[B]2.Psion/Psychic Rogue[Or lurk]
Again,Why not distinguish yourself by playing a psionic character? They are rather balanced and kick butt. Plus, you get to add your PP into one giant pool.
Adding in Psychic Rogue gets you a lot of skills as well, so you can really use that high intelligence bonus well.



3.Duskblade/Wizard
While not as potent as the warblade/Wizard (Which is also recommended), it does allow you to better wear armor,Channel touch spells, and gives you a FAT hit dice,

On the wizard side, you would be best suited to continue like so
wizard 5/War Weaver 5/Geometer5/Abjurant Champion 5

Alternatively, If you still want to be a bard, the best way is
Wizard 5/War Weaver 5/Virtuoso 10. Then you get virtuoso performances and still keep full wizard casting.

Yeah, our lineup had some changes and probably I'll do the debuffer while the other one is going on a Archivist//Factotum (not so simple, he's a god of optimization, but my memory sucks).

Thanks for your suggestions, but all these classes are not what I'm looking for (I like PP, but I prefer classes which I'm having fun with)
Thanks anyway :*

FrCerr
2015-09-16, 05:52 AM
If you want to go for a bard build, I'd prolly recommend bard//crusader. Crusader on the one half makes sure that you're not squishy and also gives some handy bufflike manuevers (white raven tactics to give an ally another turn, some devoted spirit manuevers to heal your allies/yourself whenever you hit people, etc). On the bard side, I would prolly go something like Bard 7/War Weaver 2/Virtuoso 1/Sublime Chord 1/Virtuoso 9 (advancing sublime chord spellcasting). [...] Overall, the build gives you a ton of options for buffing your allies, while still being able to hold your own in a melee fight from the crusader levels. You'll get high level spells from sublime chord and quite a few bardic music abilities from virtuoso. Hopefully this fits what you were looking for.

Thank you very much for the suggestions!
Bard is an absolutely new class to me, so all of this is much appreciated

DMVerdandi
2015-09-16, 03:05 PM
Yeah, our lineup had some changes and probably I'll do the debuffer while the other one is going on a Archivist//Factotum (not so simple, he's a god of optimization, but my memory sucks).

Thanks for your suggestions, but all these classes are not what I'm looking for (I like PP, but I prefer classes which I'm having fun with)
Thanks anyway :*

Now that you are debuting, what's the plan.
Bard isn't so great for that.