Improving Damage for A Zen Archer?

[Palanan]

I’m building a Druid/Zen Archer for Kingmaker, and after working out my stats I’m not sure if my damage output will be up to par.

We’re starting at ninth level, so this will be a Druid 6/Zen Archer 3. The DM has given us a modified elite array (15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 10) with a +1 to our primary stat and another +1 to a secondary stat, as well as a +2 stat-boosting item. I’ll be playing a tengu from the ARG, which has +2 Dex, +2 Wis and -2 Con.

After racial modifiers and bonus points, I have Str 10, Dex 16, Con 12, Int 12, Wis 18, Cha 10, and now I have two questions to start with:


1. Should I put the +2 stat-boosting item on Dex or Wis? I’m leaning towards Wis, but I’ve never played a zen archer and not sure which would be best--a little more AC and Initiative, or a slightly better to-hit bonus and Will save.

2. Given my low Strength, and the lack of Dex-to-damage at long range, is there some other way I can improve my damage per arrow?

.

[Geddy2112]

You are a druid/monk. Wisdom is your god stat, at all times. Remember that you are a monk, you use wisdom bonus as AC bonus just like dex, so boosting wis is almost always the way to go. Also, reflex saves are not near as bad to fail as will-you can never have your will save be too high.

Strength is going to be the best way to get damage,and remember, you can still make AoO's and unarmed strikes and strength helps here. Try to get this up a bit for the long game. Eventually you get weapon specialization as a bonus feat, and at higher levels you will be able to spend ki to make your bow damage die the same as your unarmed strikes. Gravity bow is a helpful spell to bridge the gap, but you will need another party member to cast it on you. It has a decent duration, might be worth buying the wizard/sorcerer a wand to cast it on you. Deadly aim is power attack for bows, a must-have feat. Power attack is in your bonus tree, and adds to damage at close range. Rapid shot and manyshot improve your dakka output, which is the main way Zen Archers do damage. A single arrow only does a bit of damage, but when you are getting 3-4 hits a round, this becomes scarily effective. With perfect strike/improved critical, you can critfish and get some scary damage. Hammer the gap also works to up your damage from multiple hits.

For higher levels, clustered shots is a must-Damage reduction normally eats up flurry style attacks, this easily bypasses it.

If you do all of that, your damage will not only be on par, but probably outclassing most of your fellow party members.

[Slider Eclipse]

You are a druid/monk. Wisdom is your god stat, at all times. Remember that you are a monk, you use wisdom bonus as AC bonus just like dex, so boosting wis is almost always the way to go. Also, reflex saves are not near as bad to fail as will-you can never have your will save be too high.

Strength is going to be the best way to get damage,and remember, you can still make AoO's and unarmed strikes and strength helps here. Try to get this up a bit for the long game. Eventually you get weapon specialization as a bonus feat, and at higher levels you will be able to spend ki to make your bow damage die the same as your unarmed strikes. Gravity bow is a helpful spell to bridge the gap, but you will need another party member to cast it on you. It has a decent duration, might be worth buying the wizard/sorcerer a wand to cast it on you. Deadly aim is power attack for bows, a must-have feat. Power attack is in your bonus tree, and adds to damage at close range. Rapid shot and manyshot improve your dakka output, which is the main way Zen Archers do damage. A single arrow only does a bit of damage, but when you are getting 3-4 hits a round, this becomes scarily effective. With perfect strike/improved critical, you can critfish and get some scary damage. Hammer the gap also works to up your damage from multiple hits.

For higher levels, clustered shots is a must-Damage reduction normally eats up flurry style attacks, this easily bypasses it.

If you do all of that, your damage will not only be on par, but probably outclassing most of your fellow party members.

This is for the most part correct though I should also point out that Zen Archers automatically use Wis for To hit instead of Dex making Wis even more useful for that +2.

As for Damage beyond what he's stated the only Other thing I could suggest is perhaps seeing if your GM will let you make your Bow Guided (Replaces Str Mod with Wis on Damage Rolls) By RAW theres nothing stopping you from putting this on a Bow but Some GM's may not allow it for various reasons (Meant for Melee Weapons according to Flavor, was Created back when Pathfinder was still just 3rd party 3.5e) Pair that with your Druid spells and you make Wis a True God stat.. and really the only one you need.

[Ravens_cry]

If your DM allows it (it's Paizo, but it was written when their modules were D&D 3.5) there's the Guided weapon quality. (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/magic-weapons/magic-weapons-non-core/weapon-property---guided) Gives you Wisdom to hit AND damage for a +1. Now the side bar *says* it was for melee weapons only, but the example weapon in the module was a crossbow and nothing in RAW prevents it so, again, . . . ask your DM.
Clustered shots (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/clustered-shots-combat) is great once Damage reduction starts cropping up, as it means DR is only taken off once. Deadly Aim (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/deadly-aim-combat) is, more or less, power attack for ranged.

[BRKNdevil]

shiba protector from OA, which got a 3.5 update in the dragon magazine gives a bonus to attacks and damage equal to wis mod. so you can stack zen archery and this feature

[Captain Morgan]

I'm a little confused as to what you are looking to accomplish that particular multiclass option? You're introducing the character as a Zen Archer, and naming no further aspirations beyond archery, but putting 2/3rds of your levels in something else. Wild Shape isn't especially conducive to bows, and your spells probably won't do a lot to bolster it either. You can't cast and shoot during the same turn. You are a worse caster than a straight Druid and a worse archer than a straight ZA.

I myself am a bigger fan of mixing Inquisitor 5/Zen Archer 4. Bane and flurry combine for some really sick nova damage, you get access to the Bow Staff spell for melee, and with the right Inquisitions and Archetypes you can make social skills run off WIS for one of the saddest characters around.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Geddy2112
Strength is going to be the best way to get damage,and remember, you can still make AoO's and unarmed strikes and strength helps here. Try to get this up a bit for the long game.

Thanks for the mini-guide, I appreciate it. :smalltongue:

It sounds as if I should be pumping Strength at the expense of Dexterity, although here the tengu’s +2 racial to Dex may complicate that a bit. Simply switching those gives me Str 14 and Dex 12, which doesn’t seem great, but I suppose the +2 damage for Strength will add up. Hammer the Gap should help, if I have room for it.


Originally Posted by Ravens_cry
If your DM allows it (it's Paizo, but it was written when their modules were D&D 3.5) there's the Guided weapon quality.

Looks interesting, but we’re limited in our sources for this campaign and this probably won’t be allowed. My DM is generally open to special requests, and he’s already approved a couple for this character, but the melee-only note for Guided pretty much sinks it.




Originally Posted by Geddy2112
For higher levels, clustered shots is a must-Damage reduction normally eats up flurry style attacks, this easily bypasses it.


Originally Posted by Ravens_cry
Clustered shots is great once Damage reduction starts cropping up, as it means DR is only taken off once.

Trust me, Clustered Shots was at the top of my wish list, but my DM has this on his short list of banned feats. I weep a little, but I can live without it.

[grarrrg]

After racial modifiers and bonus points, I have Str 10, Dex 16, Con 12, Int 12, Wis 18, Cha 10, and now I have two questions to start with:

1. Should I put the +2 stat-boosting item on Dex or Wis? I’m leaning towards Wis, but I’ve never played a zen archer and not sure which would be best--a little more AC and Initiative, or a slightly better to-hit bonus and Will save.

Why is your DEX so high?
A 13 or 14 would make sense, as you need 13 to take most "ranged" feats anyway.

The only ranged feats that really need more than 13 are Manyshot (which is debatable, can snag it as a req-less Zen bonus feat, but you can't Rapid/Many AND Flurry of Bows at the same time, so most just stick with the Flurry).
Imp. and Greater Snap Shot (which you don't strictly need as you have Unarmed as an option being a Monk).
And Improved Precise Shot (which is ham-dandy, but requires 19 DEX).

Yeah, drop the DEX down a notch, drop INT down a notch, and get a Composite Bow.
STR 14 (13 +1 bonus)
DEX 14 (12 +2 race)
CON 12 (14 -2 race)
INT 10
WIS 18 (15 +2 race+1 bonus)
CHA 10