Unseen Servants and Mining

[Ruethgar]

Firstly, can Unseen Servants actually mine? It is the only untrained profession skill so they do qualify to just take 10 on it so I think they can. But then comes the question of how to adjudicate their size in relation to the skill? I mean, one can assume that since they don't have mention of size modifiers that they are considered medium I guess. But the only thing they would even use them for is hide and they already have invisibility so that seems a little redundant. Plus they don't have a speed meaning they are reaching all of the edges of the spell's area simultaneously to act within it which would be odd to call medium(though Elfin Lied could be an explanation).

Were their any errata, or sage advices that addressed this? Hell I'ld even take a FaQ article. What would be your rulings on it?

[Necroticplague]

Nope. Can't exert more than 20 pounds of force, and I'm pretty sure mining needs more than that.

[noob]

Well do you consider a guy with 1 strength can not mine?
If it is not the case the unseen servants could do that.
Else do make 4 unseen servants and make them work together and it will work(4 times more load means 10 more strength)

[Darrin]

Nope. Can't exert more than 20 pounds of force, and I'm pretty sure mining needs more than that.

I don't see any such requirement in the rules.

Profession (miner) in Races of the Dragon is a Wis-based check. All it cares about is the number of miners and their size. Unseen servant can do most anything an unskilled humanoid can do, so I think we can assume it's medium-sized. A single unseen servant can make a DC 10 check to excavate half of a 5' cube, so long as the rock isn't igneous (DC 15) or metamorphic (DC 20).

[Fouredged Sword]

I don't see any such requirement in the rules.

Profession (miner) in Races of the Dragon is a Wis-based check. All it cares about is the number of miners and their size. Unseen servant can do most anything an unskilled humanoid can do, so I think we can assume it's medium-sized. A single unseen servant can make a DC 10 check to excavate half of a 5' cube, so long as the rock isn't igneous (DC 15) or metamorphic (DC 20).

Isn't profession a trained only skill, or is there an override in Prof (miner)? Unseen servants can use trained only skills.

[Inevitability]

Nope. Can't exert more than 20 pounds of force, and I'm pretty sure mining needs more than that.

It should be possible to combine several servants and have them work together to exert over twenty pounds of force, right? Maybe have two of them hold a pickaxe together?

[Ruethgar]

Isn't profession a trained only skill, or is there an override in Prof (miner)? Unseen servants can use trained only skills.

As mentioned in the OP it is the only Profession known to be usable untrained. This appears intentional if you consider the example. Plus slave are always working in the mines but that doesn't mean they have profession miner so it made sense from that point of view.

"Even a pair of unskilled miners can clear a 5-foot cube of stone, while reasonably talented workers can remove twice or even three times as much."

[Coidzor]

Isn't there a unseen laborer variant of the spell?

[Ruethgar]

I know there is an Unseen Crafter, Wood Wose, and Servant Horde as far as variations of the spell, but none that I know of specifically for Profession.

[Bullet06320]

there is also a 3rd party unseen trickster, level 2, adds slieght of hand to what the unseen servant can do, The Quintessential Wizard by mongoose

as far as mining goes, I don't see why it couldn't, it can perform a task repeatedly unless ordered otherwise, as long as the tool weighs no more than 20 pounds, its not that hard to pick up a hammer or a pick and keep hitting a rock with it. you would have to remain close to it, and occasionally redirect it where to hit.
and as the OP stated, they can take 10 on the check so no issues there

you could also you use the research custom spells rule to make a higher level variant that can do more advanced tasks, say maybe 3rd level, give it ranks in one profession skill equal to 3+caster level, and a longer range so you can go do other things and not worry about it for a few hours. and maybe a strength score of 10 plus 1/2 caster levels so it can lift and haul more

[Milo v3]

Can't you do profession untrained but it only gets you 1 sp?

[Coidzor]

If you wanna do spell research/homebrew, I'd say go with one that gives some number of them scaling off of your caster level ala Animate Dead or Animal Friendship. Somewhere between 3rd or 5th level, depending upon how you value the fact that they're just workers rather than useful in combat, whether they're permanent or have a duration(I'd say days per CL or 1 week/2 CL or something funky and uniqueish, like 1 month), and whether you pay an XP component or a gold piece/gemstone valued in X gp per servant price for each one of them in order to make them permanent.

I'd say off the cuff if I were to design a spell along those lines, I'd go with a 4th level spell that gives 3 unseen workers per CL, and has a days per CL duration(so when you can cast it, they already have 1 casting cover 1 week's worth of labor by 21 laborers who aren't as good as trained professionals but can work 24/7 without the concerns of mindless undead workers) unless material components equal to 10 gp per unseen worker are expended, and a caster can only have 6 unseen workers per CL around at one time. Make it 6th level for no limit on the number of them around.

Granted, any reasonableish gp cost is something they'll pay off in relatively short order unless using them to supplement business rules and things go poorly for said business and they're not liable to get destroyed in combat so they're not really that much of a wealth cycler/sink like undead combatants can be. So if I were to think on the matter further I might waive it.


Can't you do profession untrained but it only gets you 1 sp?

Untrained laborers and assistants (that is, characters without any ranks in Profession) earn an average of 1 silver piece per day. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/profession.htm)

Not quite sure what exactly to make of that, whether it relates to the skill at all or if it's just a restatement of the hireling rules.

[Bullet06320]

servant horde is a 5th level spell that creates 2d6 unseen servants plus 1 per caster level, so yours would have to be higher level than that I would think

[noob]

Try the pathfinder mechanosmith to make hordes of definitive servitors for free that will be able to build magic items with the unchained rules.

[Fouredged Sword]

Well, as you do seem to be able to use the check untrained, then they can mine. They could take 10, and are likely to dig very slowly as it can only take 10. At 8th level you have the caster level to allow one to fill an 8 hour shift. "Dig in that direction" seems like a simple command. Picks don't take much strength to use, leverage turns that 20lbs of force into a very high focused hit and they do not tire.

It would be a very slow way to preform a task better solved with disintegrate.

[Ravens_cry]

Well, as you do seem to be able to use the check untrained, then they can mine. They could take 10, and are likely to dig very slowly as it can only take 10. At 8th level you have the caster level to allow one to fill an 8 hour shift. "Dig in that direction" seems like a simple command. Picks don't take much strength to use, leverage turns that 20lbs of force into a very high focused hit and they do not tire.

It would be a very slow way to preform a task better solved with disintegrate.
One trouble with disintegrate is if you want to *do* something with the material mined. If you're just tunnelling, Passwall is lower level. Either way, both are much higher level, so, if you got time and not the spells, Unseen Servant could be better than both. For lower than than the former two but higher than Unseen Servant but faster than it is Animate Dead, for a literal skeleton crew.:smalltongue:

[Ruethgar]

The specifics of why I ask is because I am making a prestige race with some scaling abilities.

Unseen Miner will scale to Battlefield Fortification and Stone Shape to Nature's Rampart and finally to Move Earth.

It is largely focused on land manipulation and growth as opposed to destruction or undeath. I thought it was pretty neat as well, I made the prestige race based on a staff with a bio charge battery on it to make a sort of mana system. 50 mana with 1 per 1d4 round regen. Stick it on an expert for a limited thematic caster(or martial if you really want to burn your XP on 10k feats).