Sorceror Ghost Mystic Theurge build/minmaxing?

[MatrixStone93]

Hi. I like the Ghost class's Savage Species Progressions. I want 2 levels of that, so I can get telekinesis (That seems very exploitable, especially when many weapons fly around at once) and other neat ghost bonuses.

As for the character, I'm thinking of making him a charming party-face and party-buffer, a Mystic Theurge, Charm/Domination Cleric/Sorceror. He will likely be human, or a humanoid creature with little or no level adjustment. High CHA, possible divine metamagic shenanigans that I've heard are awesome, and . And he'll serve some god that approves of his fun-loving "Dirty 300+ year old man that looks like a 22-ish boyband guy and isn't afraid to exploit it" shenanigans. Also, he can do deep scenes where he drops the smile and gets serious and reveals his insecurities and wonders why he can't move on and stuff, to get roleplaying xp. It's deeper and more moving than it sounds. I just don't want to spoil anything.

[Selion]

Hi. I like the Ghost class's Savage Species Progressions. I want 2 levels of that, so I can get telekinesis (That seems very exploitable, especially when many weapons fly around at once) and other neat ghost bonuses.

As for the character, I'm thinking of making him a charming party-face and party-buffer, a Mystic Theurge, Charm/Domination Cleric/Sorceror. He will likely be human, or a humanoid creature with little or no level adjustment. High CHA, possible divine metamagic shenanigans that I've heard are awesome, and . And he'll serve some god that approves of his fun-loving "Dirty 300+ year old man that looks like a 22-ish boyband guy and isn't afraid to exploit it" shenanigans. Also, he can do deep scenes where he drops the smile and gets serious and reveals his insecurities and wonders why he can't move on and stuff, to get roleplaying xp. It's deeper and more moving than it sounds. I just don't want to spoil anything.

I think it would be way more effective going for full sorcerer: With 4 sorcerer levels and 3 cleric levels and 2 levels lost to take the template you have to reach level 10 to cast third level spells.
The downside of this kind of build is that you could have hard time finding equipment, there are clear rules only for ghost touch weapons and armors.

[MatrixStone93]

The Ghost handbook said you could use the level 2 Telekinesis ability to use a great deal of weapons, whether they have the ghost touch property or not. Also, I may change it to Cleric/Wizard, if Wizard being better than Sorceror means enough to reduce the SAD when it comes to Charisma and Divine Metamagic Persisted Divine Might, or other DMM tricks.

[MatrixStone93]

But I'm not really going for godmode... I just want a huge bag of tricks so I'll always have something up my sleeve. Also, in a party, my role will likely be the Face or Diplomancer. If not that, then I'll be the buffer. Damage isn't that important to me, but causing awesome stuff worthy of being told later in story form is.

[MatrixStone93]

Mystic Theurge, upon closer inspection, appears to really, really suck. A lot.

What do?

[ZamielVanWeber]

Mystic Theurge, upon closer inspection, appears to really, really suck. A lot.

What do?

Mystic Theurge is useful because of early entry tricks as well as fast progression classes. If you possess neither it is lackluster. Can you get into Ur-Priest for the divine side?

[Jack_Simth]

Mystic Theurge is useful because of early entry tricks as well as fast progression classes. If you possess neither it is lackluster. Can you get into Ur-Priest for the divine side?
Yes; something like an Illumian (for the option of heightening spells) Wizard-5/Mindbender-1/Ur-Priest-1/Mystic Theurge-9/Arcane Advancement PrC of Choice-4 is pretty decent, as is a Wizard-1/Cleric-3/Mystic Theurge-10/Divine PrC of Choice-6, or...

Mostly, though, Mystic Theurge exists because a Cleric-3/Wizard-3/Mystic Theurge-10 is a viable (if noticeably suboptimal) character at 16th, while a Cleric-8/Wizard-8 is little more than a baggage handler at 16th. Mystic Theurge, Arcane Trickster, Eldritch Knight, and similar dual-progression classes were almost certainly intended as a patch for the multiclass caster problem.

[ExLibrisMortis]

You could do fun things with something like ghost 2/paladin (of some variant) 2/crusader 1/swordsage 2/ur-priest 2/ruby knight vindicator 7. Note: not a legal build as written - requires a slight change of UP or RKV, as worshiping Wee Jas is decidedly incompatible with not worshiping gods.

At lower levels, you're more of a warrior, with CHA to saves, WIS to AC (and CHA as well, I think, not sure on when the template class grants that) and a bunch of low-level maneuvers. At those levels, very few things can hurt an incorporeal target, so you just go about Iron Guard's Glare-ing and Douse the Flames-ing to distract opponents, while being annoyingly unreachable yourself. At middle levels, you're picking up accelerated cleric casting with Ur-Priest, and advancing that with RKV to get some higher-level Shadow Hand, White Raven and Devoted Spirit maneuvers, and eventually extra swift actions, to pull out several tricks in one turn.

As a ghost, you don't need STR or CON (put an 8 in both), so it should be pretty easy to put decent scores in both CHA and WIS.

[MatrixStone93]

Nice. What if I wanted to take things even further? A wide range of spells both arcane and divine, possible psion levels, and horrifying telekinesis abuse.

[MatrixStone93]

And some prestige classes. Which Arcane/Divine/Psionic prestige classes are actually worth taking?

[Rebel7284]

And some prestige classes. Which Arcane/Divine/Psionic prestige classes are actually worth taking?

Then you play a spell-to-power erudite and find as many Wyrm Wizards and and Arcane Disciple using prepared casters as you can to get divine spells from. You end up as a triple caster.

Otherwise you end up with tons of cheese for very minimal return. Something like:
Savage Bard 1/Ardent 4/Ur Priest 2/Psychic Theurge 3/Sublime Chord 1/Mystic Theurge 4/Cerebremancer 6

You need Alternate Spell Source feat to qualify for Sublime Chord and Practiced Manifester feat to automatically progress Ardent casting by 4 as per RAW reading of Ardent progression being based on manifester Level NOT character level.

[MatrixStone93]

Alright. What if I wanted this build to be useful at low levels?