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View Full Version : Gamer Humor Drow: Do's and Don'ts



ThinkMinty
2015-09-16, 08:41 AM
So I've been thinkin' of rolling up a Drow at some point and/or writing somethin' with them in it.

What are the do's and don'ts of the Drow, exactly? I've got that as far as D&D is concerned, there's a matriarchal society and there's a spoopy spider-goddess Lolth that wants them to kill eachother for reason that don't make sense. 'side that and don't give them more than one scimitar at a time, I really don't know much about the dark elves.

Are they always gray/black, or are there purple ones?

Etc, etc.

Geddy2112
2015-09-16, 09:14 AM
If you are the DM, you can do whatever you want.

Some of the general don't things for drow are:
-Hypersexualized drow clerics, priestess, fighters, etc
-Playing Drizzet word for word
-Being cartoonishly or over the top evil
-Unneeded textbook racism for Elves and other races
-Insane obsession with spiders and other creepy crawlies

Things you can and probably should do:
-Don't be freaked out by spiders and creepy crawlies
-Have some moxie, but don't be a total prick about it
-Familiarity with crossbows, scimitars, and other Drow weapons
-See poison as a tool, nothing more or less
-Respect your mom


My 2 copper

Ninja_Prawn
2015-09-16, 10:15 AM
Geddy's points seem fair.


Are they always gray/black, or are there purple ones?

In D&D, I believe skin is shades of grey only, hair is white only (though dye exists in most settings). Eyes are usually red, but there is a bit of variation.

I don't know about half-draw.

Other things to keep in mind: Drow of the Underdark use a lot of slaves; even the lowest-class drow lives a 'noble' kind of life. Hence all the rapiers and time spent on political scheming.
Drow pronounce it 'Loth'. But you'll probably look like an idiot if your fellow players don't know that.
Drow have their own pantheon (though they don't necessarily have to worship any of them). In the lore, I believe all of the Drow gods except for Lolth are now dead, but if you're the DM, you can easily resurrect them. In the Forgotten Realms, a popular human deity for Drow is Shar, Goddess of darkness and loss.
Drow interact with the other races of the Underdark, all of which they consider inferior to themselves. That includes things like beholders and illithids, which they hunt for sport.

Thrudd
2015-09-16, 10:15 AM
Drow: Don't Do it.
jk

Seriously, you'll need to check with the DM what setting it is, if Drow even exist their society could be varied.

The standard now is Forgotten Realms, where they live in cities in the underdark and predominantly worship Lolth, demon queen of spiders (though a few outliers worship other evil deities or demons). Matriarchal society with priestesses at the top, males can't have social standing or power, or be clerics as far as I know. Strong male warriors are prized servants and consorts. Mostly chaotic evil society divided by strong family/clans, so the strongest, smartest, most ruthless families rule and enslave the weaker. Everyone mostly schemes to gain more power and become the most favored of their goddess.
They are completely black skinned with white hair.

In Mystara they are called Shadow Elves, have purple skin, are still evil, but have totally different society.

In Greyhawk they are similar to forgotten realms, living in the underdark with black skin and white hair (because that's where they and the underdark originally came from, in the "Against the Giants/Descent " modules).

Ravens_cry
2015-09-16, 10:28 AM
One thing that bugged me was the dark skin. While I don't go along with the allegations it has some racist connotation (it's black black or grey, not melanin black), from a practical perspective, exclusively cave dwelling creatures tend to be pale. So I had the idea that the 'black' skin is actually a kind of sunscreen worn during surface raids, which is when most other races tend to meet drow, so hence that's where the legends come from of 'dark' elves.

Thrudd
2015-09-16, 10:35 AM
One thing that bugged me was the dark skin. While I don't go along with the allegations it has some racist connotation (it's black black or grey, not melanin black), from a practical perspective, exclusively cave dwelling creatures tend to be pale. So I had the idea that the 'black' skin is actually a kind of sunscreen worn during surface raids, which is when most other races tend to meet drow, so hence that's where the legends come from of 'dark' elves.

In the lore, it was a curse applied to them by the Elven deities for their betrayal. The race was marked with black skin so they would always be identified as enemies, and cursed to not be able to tolerate the sun's light.

Ravens_cry
2015-09-16, 10:48 AM
In the lore, it was a curse applied to them by the Elven deities for their betrayal. The race was marked with black skin so they would always be identified as enemies, and cursed to not be able to tolerate the sun's light.

So, almost literal Deus ex machina. Got it.:smallsigh:

Nifft
2015-09-16, 11:27 AM
Don't: Adhere to the stereotype that all dark-skinned people are evil, nor that all evil females are scantily-clad fetishists.
Don't: Subvert that stereotype by making literally all of them Chaotic Good rebels.

Do: Remember that Drow rhymes with Bow.

Thrudd
2015-09-16, 11:28 AM
So, almost literal Deus ex machina. Got it.:smallsigh:

Well, I think originally they may have been inspired by the idea of Svartalfar (literally dark elves or black elves) of Norse mythology. They were described as swarthy elves that lived underground, as opposed to the Ljosalfar, light elves, that lived in a realm in the sky near the gods. They were created as part of the Giants modules, which are also creatures of Norse mythology. Most people I think identify fantasy dwarves more with svartalfar, but the duality of "light elves" vs "dark elves" I'm sure prompted this idea that there are underground dwelling mirror-opposites of the normal type of good elf.

It was always magical/mythological origins, rather than looking for any sort of naturalistic explanation for how a species adapted to living in a realistic underground environment.

ThinkMinty
2015-09-16, 11:38 AM
Don'tDo: Remember that Drow rhymes with Bow.

****, I've been thinking it rhymes with Cow this whole time.

Ravens_cry
2015-09-16, 11:41 AM
Well, I think originally they may have been inspired by the idea of Svartalfar (literally dark elves or black elves) of Norse mythology. They were described as swarthy elves that lived underground, as opposed to the Ljosalfar, light elves, that lived in a realm in the sky near the gods. They were created as part of the Giants modules, which are also creatures of Norse mythology. Most people I think identify fantasy dwarves more with svartalfar, but the duality of "light elves" vs "dark elves" I'm sure prompted this idea that there are underground dwelling mirror-opposites of the normal type of good elf.

It was always magical/mythological origins, rather than looking for any sort of naturalistic explanation for how a species adapted to living in a realistic underground environment.
Yeah, but I, personally, prefer a naturalistic option if one exists. Overuse of magical explanations makes things, ironically, less magical.

ThinkMinty
2015-09-16, 11:43 AM
Yeah, but I, personally, prefer a naturalistic option if one exists. Overuse of magical explanations makes things, ironically, less magical.

Yep. Personally, I just think of them as an ethnic group within the Elf species, but that's just a headcanon.

Although, if a Drow and a Human make a baby, that kid's crunch is still a Half-Elf, so there's that.

Thrudd
2015-09-16, 11:48 AM
Don't: Adhere to the stereotype that all dark-skinned people are evil, nor that all evil females are scantily-clad fetishists.
Don't: Subvert that stereotype by making literally all of them Chaotic Good rebels.

Do: Remember that Drow rhymes with Bow.

Do: remember that Drow are raised in a ruthless society which encourages taking what you want by any means necessary from those that are weaker than you, and almost everyone you would have known growing up has this outlook on life.

Remember: Drow are raised to believe all other species are inferior to them, and rightly belong to them as slaves or else should be wiped from existence (surface dwelling Elves, and probably Illithids). It would be very rare for a Drow to encounter others of their kind that did not believe this.

Remember: Drow have a specific undying hatred of their surface dwelling cousins and their gods, and will attack and execute them on sight, preferring to sacrifice them to Lolth rather than enslave them. A Drow without this outlook would be peculiar indeed.

Remember: Surface dwellers that are aware of Drow know them to be ruthless killers and slavers, and any civilized society will generally immediately consider them enemies to be attacked on sight. Only other similar violent slaving societies, criminal enclaves etc., would do business with them or tolerate them.

Nifft
2015-09-16, 12:02 PM
****, I've been thinking it rhymes with Cow this whole time.

Psst! There are two ways to pronounce Bow.

DireSickFish
2015-09-16, 12:06 PM
Psst! There are two ways to pronounce Bow.

Then why are we using it as an example?

ThinkMinty
2015-09-16, 12:08 PM
Then why are we using it as an example?

Probably to **** with me. In retrospect, I appreciate the ribbing. Touché!

...yes, I'm using touché correctly.

Nightcanon
2015-09-16, 12:11 PM
Don't: Adhere to the stereotype that all dark-skinned people are evil, nor that all evil females are scantily-clad fetishists.
Don't: Subvert that stereotype by making literally all of them Chaotic Good rebels.

Do: Remember that Drow rhymes with Bow.

Bow as in Bow/Curtsey or Bow as in Bow/Arrow?

edit: D'oh as in ninja'd

Nifft
2015-09-16, 12:14 PM
Then why are we using it as an example?

Because entertainment has significantly more inherent value than pedantry.

Citation: People pay for entertainment. Nobody pays for pedantry.


Probably to **** with me. In retrospect, I appreciate the ribbing. Touché!

...yes, I'm using touché correctly. Nah, not intended to mess with anyone.

I figured most people would either read it in their preferred pronunciation (because priming), or would get the humor.

EDIT:

Bow as in Bow/Curtsey or Bow as in Bow/Arrow?

Yes, exactly.

Ninja_Prawn
2015-09-16, 12:22 PM
Citation: People pay for entertainment. Nobody pays for pedantry.

Counterexample: copy editors exist and get paid.

#sorrynotsorry

Honest Tiefling
2015-09-16, 12:26 PM
I get that the drow skin color does cause some issues, but I just cannot bring myself to hate it because it looks so cool. Black is the new peach!

Also, quick question: Which setting is this in? A standard D&D setting? I was under the impression that even Lolth varied a bit between the canonical settings.

Aetol
2015-09-16, 12:35 PM
Don't : Walk into sunlight. It'll make you sparkle.

Ravens_cry
2015-09-16, 01:13 PM
Yep. Personally, I just think of them as an ethnic group within the Elf species, but that's just a headcanon.

The beauty of an RPG is you can make your own setting or alter an existing one, and, in that setting, your funky change is canon.


Although, if a Drow and a Human make a baby, that kid's crunch is still a Half-Elf, so there's that.
Well, there is half-drow, so it's possible to have a setting where they are distinct if so wished.

Anonymouswizard
2015-09-16, 01:30 PM
In the lore, it was a curse applied to them by the Elven deities for their betrayal. The race was marked with black skin so they would always be identified as enemies, and cursed to not be able to tolerate the sun's light.

I don't particularly like this, and if I ever run a setting with Drow I'll be having it as a mark of ownership, so 'good' Drow (or those who don't follow Lolth) in this setting would have their skin lighten to tan/dark grey over several months, although they'd keep the white hair and discover that despite their natural skin colour they might as well be called 'lobster red elves'.


****, I've been thinking it rhymes with Cow this whole time.

As has been said bow can be pronounced two ways.


Then why are we using it as an example?

Because there is such a big division on how to pronounce it (I say it rhymes with cow, but many say crow), to the point we are all fed up with it. We settled on bow as a compromise, because it only matters if you are at the same table.

ThinkMinty
2015-09-16, 02:00 PM
Also, quick question: Which setting is this in? A standard D&D setting? I was under the impression that even Lolth varied a bit between the canonical settings.

An original story setting for an atypical fantasy serial I'm working on. It's kinda like if fantasy was in the Googie-tastic retrofuture of yesteryear instead of in Tolkein's backyard. There's a kid, he's a sorcerer who reads a lot of forbidden tomes. Adventure ensues.


I get that the drow skin color does cause some issues, but I just cannot bring myself to hate it because it looks so cool. Black is the new peach!

Seconded. Drow skintone is aesthetically pleasant, to the point where I don't mind it being technically inconsistent with their cthonic thing from a point of view. Maybe they have it to blend into cthonic darkness, hypothetical hard sci-fi pedants who insist that they should be pale.


Counterexample: copy editors exist and get paid.

#sorrynotsorry

This is why you're the best, Ninja Prawn.

Incidentally, I invented a fictitious tempura/dojo franchise called Way of the Prawn that sells tempura and has dojos in malls, strip malls, and a couple office buildings. They're mortal enemies with Pyrate's Porringer, who sell more New Englandey style seafood. Intense restaurant rivalry is intense. Incidentally, 's for the same story setting where I'm...what's the word...drowcurious; I might add Drow to the setting.

Currently they're at Probably, probability-wise.

Ninja_Prawn
2015-09-16, 02:08 PM
This is why you're the best, Ninja Prawn.

May I sig that, please?


Incidentally, I invented a fictitious tempura/dojo franchise called Way of the Prawn that sells tempura and has dojos in malls, strip malls, and a couple office buildings. They're mortal enemies with Pyrate's Porringer, who sell more New Englandey style seafood. Intense restaurant rivalry is intense.

Yay! I'm a thing! I'd love to see that written up as a Monastic Tradition.

ThinkMinty
2015-09-16, 02:28 PM
May I sig that, please?

Please do.


Yay! I'm a thing! I'd love to see that written up as a Monastic Tradition.

It was previously Way of the Shrimp, but you (yes, you) made prawn cool enough to edge shrimp out, as recorded for posterity in the document I keep all my updatey changes in. I have...a lot of background notes on this setting, it's insane. Everyone's a magical radioactive monster, and some of them are wizards. Fun stuff.

ThinkMinty
2015-09-16, 04:00 PM
But anyways, I'm moderately more informed about Drow.

...wait, their eyes are always red? Since when is this a thing?

DireSickFish
2015-09-16, 04:12 PM
But anyways, I'm moderately more informed about Drow.

...wait, their eyes are always red? Since when is this a thing?

Not always but it's the most common. In R.A. Salvatores novels seeing Drizzts lavender eyes was commented on as being super unusual. I'm not sure what other colors they can be.

Ninja_Prawn
2015-09-16, 04:13 PM
But anyways, I'm moderately more informed about Drow.

...wait, their eyes are always red? Since when is this a thing?

I don't know. Maybe I'm misremembering. My 5e PHB says: "They commonly have very pale eyes (so pale as to be mistaken for white) in shades of lilac, silver, pink, red, and blue."

*shrug*

ArcanaFire
2015-09-16, 04:17 PM
Most of their eyes are red, to the point that other colors really stand out. At least that's the case in the Forgotten Realms. I'm holding a copy of Drow of the Underdark right now that says red, white, purple, green and gold occur with equal frequency with red being slightly more common than the others.

Even in the source material, there's a lot of variance, so it's really going to depend on what kind of drow your DM is running with.

ThinkMinty
2015-09-16, 04:24 PM
Not always but it's the most common. In R.A. Salvatores novels seeing Drizzts lavender eyes was commented on as being super unusual. I'm not sure what other colors they can be.

Pff, Lavender, really? Lavender? For some reason, I find that to be a particularly hilarious shade of purple.

dps
2015-09-16, 05:05 PM
Citation: People pay for entertainment. Nobody pays for pedantry.



Hm. Someone's never paid college tuition.

Ninja_Prawn
2015-09-16, 05:09 PM
Pff, Lavender, really? Lavender? For some reason, I find that to be a particularly hilarious shade of purple.

That's the true power of Drizzt: he can make anything look manly. He could wear a fuchsia-coloured tutu and still make intimidate checks.

hamishspence
2015-09-16, 05:11 PM
Not always but it's the most common. In R.A. Salvatores novels seeing Drizzts lavender eyes was commented on as being super unusual. I'm not sure what other colors they can be.

Gromph and his daughter Liriel in the Starlight & Shadows trilogy have golden-yellow eyes.

ThinkMinty
2015-09-16, 05:14 PM
That's the true power of Drizzt: he can make anything look manly. He could wear a fuchsia-coloured tutu and still make intimidate checks.

In fairness, you don't gotta be manly to be intimidating. Girls that look like dolls are hella scary.

Drizzt does seem like he drinks dinosaur steaks and ****s testosterone to a degree, though. He's got two whole magic swords, for ****'s sake. That's a lot of sword for one guy.

Guancyto
2015-09-16, 06:03 PM
Do: Recognize that accidents happen, history is largely a series of mistakes that worked out in the end, and people who go traveling long distances in unfamiliar places (like, say, the surface) can and do get lost.

Don't: Feel confined to only one population of Drow, those Lloth-touched city-dwellers are a bunch of idiots rearranging deck chairs on the Thay's Invincibility.

Do: Be a descendant of a swamp-dwelling group of spider druids, or a bunch of raiders who screwed up their exit strategy and became a pirate crew instead

Still Do: Be Superior to everyone else. You're still an elf, for Tiamat's sake!

Hawkstar
2015-09-16, 06:28 PM
So, almost literal Deus ex machina. Got it.:smallsigh:

No. Act of an agent. No machines involved at all, in any sense. Gods are real and actually do things like this. If you have a problem with such, you may want to look into another genre entirely.

Nifft
2015-09-16, 07:41 PM
Counterexample: copy editors exist and get paid.

#sorrynotsorry


Hm. Someone's never paid college tuition.

It's funny that both of you are trying to go for humor ... in an attempt to demonstrate that pedantry has more value than humor.

- - -

Seriously, though, editing and education have very little to do with pedantry, except that both prepare the subject to better face a world which might contain pedants.

ThinkMinty
2015-09-16, 08:20 PM
No. Act of an agent. No machines involved at all, in any sense. Gods are real and actually do things like this. If you have a problem with such, you may want to look into another genre entirely.

You don't need gods to have fantasy. They never seem to help, anyways, and a fair amount of us think they're all made up.

That's as far into that topic as I want to go.


Still Do: Be Superior to everyone else. You're still an elf, for Tiamat's sake!

Smug Racist Elves Who Are Smugly Racist are both a stereotype, and page-rippingly obnoxious as a reader. They're one of the worst things about the Inheritance Cycle, and given the nature of that series, that's saying something.

Thrudd
2015-09-16, 08:25 PM
Smug Racist Elves Who Are Smugly Racist are both a stereotype, and page-rippingly obnoxious as a reader. They're one of the worst things about the Inheritance Cycle, and given the nature of that series, that's saying something.

Drow aren't smugly racist. They're maliciously and violently racist. That's different.

ThinkMinty
2015-09-16, 08:27 PM
Drow aren't smugly racist. They're maliciously and violently racist. That's different.

True, but they're still smug about it. Smarmy bastards.

Thrudd
2015-09-16, 08:30 PM
True, but they're still smug about it. Smarmy bastards.

I don't know. I like to see them more as openly matter-of-fact about their racism. They don't spend time rubbing your face in their opinions of you or your species; they just beat you, slap the shackles on, whip you, and laugh in your face.

If you asked them why they treat you like this, they would probably stare blankly, not comprehending the question, before whipping you again.

ThinkMinty
2015-09-16, 08:40 PM
I don't know. I like to see them more as openly matter-of-fact about their racism. They don't spend time rubbing your face in their opinions of you or your species; they just beat you, slap the shackles on, whip you, and laugh in your face.

If you asked them why they treat you like this, they would probably stare blankly, not comprehending the question, before whipping you again.

It's still awful, though.

Thrudd
2015-09-16, 08:42 PM
It's still awful, though.

Yes, awful is pretty much the description of everything the Drow do.

Coidzor
2015-09-16, 09:11 PM
Thrudd: Depends. Some drow do trade with surface dwellers/non-drow and they're still overtly racist towards their trading partners and their intermediaries even without murdering or enslaving them on sight.


Some of the general don't things for drow are:
-Hypersexualized drow clerics, priestess, fighters, etc
-Being cartoonishly or over the top evil
-Unneeded textbook racism for Elves and other races
-Insane obsession with spiders and other creepy crawlies

Aren't those all explicitly called for to some extent in both Greyhawk and Forgotten Realms? :smallamused:

Although I suppose that depends on what's general Elven racism and what's unneeded Elven racism.


That's the true power of Drizzt: he can make anything look manly. He could wear a fuchsia-coloured tutu and still make intimidate checks.


In fairness, you don't gotta be manly to be intimidating. Girls that look like dolls are hella scary.

Drizzt does seem like he drinks dinosaur steaks and ****s testosterone to a degree, though. He's got two whole magic swords, for ****'s sake. That's a lot of sword for one guy.

:smallconfused: Are you all joking or is there some kind of art of Drizz't that I've been missing out on here?

Hawkstar
2015-09-16, 09:11 PM
You don't need gods to have fantasy. They never seem to help, anyways, and a fair amount of us think they're all made up.

That's as far into that topic as I want to go.

If fantasy has Wizards and magic, it has gods. They may simply be mortal and limited in power.

ThinkMinty
2015-09-16, 09:19 PM
If fantasy has Wizards and magic, it has gods. They may simply be mortal and limited in power.

I reject the notion that magicians are somehow intrinsically gods; it's an insult to magicians.

I really, really don't need to discuss this particular thing right now. Stick to Drow, pleeeeeeeease and thank you.

goto124
2015-09-16, 10:00 PM
In the lore, it was a curse applied to them by the Elven deities for their betrayal. The race was marked with black skin so they would always be identified as enemies, and cursed to not be able to tolerate the sun's light.

I pretty much took it to be this, with none of the racial connotations.

I mean, you could make them pale-skinned, and say they live underground so they don't need melamine to protect their skin from the non-existent sunlight. Maybe they're called 'pale elves' or 'underground elves', or they're still called 'dark elves' because they live in the dark. Good luck finding art for them though.

Or, they're dark-skinned because night vision is rather common. Night vision is black-and-white, and being as dark as your surroundings helps a lot in camouflage.

I personally like the dark-colored skin purely for the aesthetics.


"-Hypersexualized drow clerics, priestess, fighters, etc
-Being cartoonishly or over the top evil"

I think the keywords (keyphrases?) are 'hyper', 'cartoonish' and 'over the top'. Sexy doesn't necessarily mean wearing metal bikinis when going melee. A cleric could easily have an off-shoulder gown, for example.

And drow evil, like any other evil, should make some sense.

Geddy2112
2015-09-16, 10:53 PM
Aren't those all explicitly called for to some extent in both Greyhawk and Forgotten Realms? :smallamused:

Although I suppose that depends on what's general Elven racism and what's unneeded Elven racism.


"-Hypersexualized drow clerics, priestess, fighters, etc
-Being cartoonishly or over the top evil"

I think the keywords (keyphrases?) are 'hyper', 'cartoonish' and 'over the top'. Sexy doesn't necessarily mean wearing metal bikinis when going melee. A cleric could easily have an off-shoulder gown, for example.

And drow evil, like any other evil, should make some sense.

Yes, but those are over the top setting elements and established tropes. To some extent, you should be all of those. Nothing wrong with being evil, or sexy, or a spider druid, or have a racial superiority, or being malicious. If somehow you are a female drow spider druid in a mithral thong with mithral spider pasties, a panther animal companion, who tries to bed/kill every other humanoid(for no reason), and says "death to elves" every other word, dial it back.

goto124
2015-09-16, 11:51 PM
Player: Wait, what did you say she's wearing again?

Anonymouswizard
2015-09-17, 01:52 AM
That's the true power of Drizzt: he can make anything look manly. He could wear a fuchsia-coloured tutu and still make intimidate checks.

Wait, I thought drizzt was hyper feminine. Isn't he an elf? He can probably make plate armour look dainty.


In fairness, you don't gotta be manly to be intimidating. Girls that look like dolls are hella scary.

The more adorable a girl is the more intimidating she is when she's mad. Also, some girls are just packed with muscle. Run far far away when they get mad, you have no clue as to what they might break.


Drizzt does seem like he drinks dinosaur steaks and ****s testosterone to a degree, though. He's got two whole magic swords, for ****'s sake. That's a lot of sword for one guy.

Are we talking about the same Drizzt? I've only read the one novel but he seemed to be kind of elfy.


It's still awful, though.

Still better than grey elves, if I have to listen to one more lecture on 'why humans look like a monkey's uncle' I'll go on a murderous rampage.

Ravens_cry
2015-09-17, 02:41 AM
No. Act of an agent. No machines involved at all, in any sense. Gods are real and actually do things like this. If you have a problem with such, you may want to look into another genre entirely.

I was going for more the Deus part. As I said earlier, I prefer naturalistic explanations as a rule, helping keep the magic magical. It doesn't quite bug me on the level of how the Kender realm is protected even though they should have gone extinct long ago, but, still.

Janus
2015-09-17, 03:40 PM
-Hypersexualized drow clerics, priestess, fighters, etc
Hey, now, if I'm running the game, you can expect all the drow women to be running about in high cut leotards. Said leotards will probably be made of neon-colored spandex. These ladies will probably also be sporting leg warmers and massive perms. And one drow lady may sound a lot like Pat Benatar when she sings.



1980s Underdark is best Underdark.

Geddy2112
2015-09-17, 04:23 PM
Hey, now, if I'm running the game, you can expect all the drow women to be running about in high cut leotards. Said leotards will probably be made of neon-colored spandex. These ladies will probably also be sporting leg warmers and massive perms. And one drow lady may sound a lot like Pat Benatar when she sings.


Ok, this is pretty awesome. I am going to play Pat Benadrow one day.

Love The Underdark Is a Battlefield.

ThinkMinty
2015-09-17, 06:55 PM
Hey, now, if I'm running the game, you can expect all the drow women to be running about in high cut leotards. Said leotards will probably be made of neon-colored spandex. These ladies will probably also be sporting leg warmers and massive perms. And one drow lady may sound a lot like Pat Benatar when she sings.

Do Driderettes buy their legwarmers in bulk?


1980s Underdark is best Underdark.

I dunno, 1960's Underdark has electric kool aid...and 1890's or 1990's Underdark has some kind of Maison Derriere featurin' drow butts. '90's might win this one.

Sith_Happens
2015-09-17, 07:11 PM
If somehow you are a female drow spider druid in a mithral thong with mithral spider pasties, a panther animal companion, who tries to bed/kill every other humanoid(for no reason), and says "death to elves" every other word, dial it back.

Mainly because the two bits I bolded don't mix.:smalltongue:

Hawkstar
2015-09-17, 07:22 PM
Mainly because the two bits I bolded don't mix.:smalltongue:

So skip the mithril thong entirely? :smalltongue:

ThinkMinty
2015-09-17, 07:43 PM
So skip the mithril thong entirely? :smalltongue:

...wait, Drow women wear underpants? Since when?

Janus
2015-09-17, 09:15 PM
Do Driderettes buy their legwarmers in bulk?
If they're not, they're spending way too much money.

Coidzor
2015-09-17, 10:16 PM
...wait, Drow women wear underpants? Since when?

Well, I mean, it's not really underwear if nothing is ever worn on top of it...

Reltzik
2015-09-17, 10:29 PM
DON'T play Drizzt.

DO be different from Drizzt in at least one of the following ways:

DO play an extrovert.

DO have a backstory not dominated by your race.

DO invest in makeup and hair dye as an enjoyable alternative to discrimination and angst.

DO have a flexible moral code.

DO check with the DM to see if it's okay to play an evil bastard, so long as it's the party's evil bastard.

I don't have any hate for Drizzt... just all the Drizzty clones.

Anonymouswizard
2015-09-18, 02:41 AM
...wait, Drow women wear underpants? Since when?

Only those raised by humans. Those raised by Drow follow the grand tradition that caused the surface races to coin the term 'going Drow', which refers to when a woman doesn't put on her under-shift. Unfortunately, because Drow women like to oppress their men by making them wear underpants, surface men must instead use the term 'going Druidic' instead.

Ninja_Prawn
2015-09-18, 02:57 AM
Unfortunately, because Drow women like to oppress their men by making them wear underpants, surface men must instead use the term 'going Druidic' instead.

Truly, their evil knows no bounds.

Coidzor
2015-09-18, 05:01 AM
Now that raises a good question, Reltzik. Can drow dye their hair in the settings where they're prominent? :smallconfused:

Ninja_Prawn
2015-09-18, 05:09 AM
Now that raises a good question, Reltzik. Can drow dye their hair in the settings where they're prominent? :smallconfused:

I'd be okay with that. It can be a pretty cool look.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-AfLPdv7ZNNo/Tn5V7p8BjWI/AAAAAAAAAjs/LTpkrN4iZe8/s1600/DarkElf_by_Ketka.jpg

goto124
2015-09-18, 05:48 AM
Is that female drow wearing full armor?

LudicSavant
2015-09-18, 06:00 AM
Is that female drow wearing full armor?


http://free3dtutorials.com/2015_freetutorials/05/Drew_Baker_Drow_vs_Mindflayer/Drow_vs_Mindflayer_Struggle_Beneath.jpg

ThinkMinty
2015-09-18, 06:06 AM
I'd be okay with that. It can be a pretty cool look.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-AfLPdv7ZNNo/Tn5V7p8BjWI/AAAAAAAAAjs/LTpkrN4iZe8/s1600/DarkElf_by_Ketka.jpg

It's not weird that I wanna take her on a picnic and run my fingers through her hair, is it?

This question makes the optimistic assumption that she's (the Drow gal in the picture) into blond human guys enough to actually want to go on a picnic with me, or at least not be offended by me askin'.

Ninja_Prawn
2015-09-18, 06:38 AM
Is that female drow wearing full armor?

It looks like it, doesn't it? I'd say this artist (whose identity I haven't researched, unfortunately) has made a deliberate effort to portray a drow woman without over-sexualising her. It's a collector's item for that fact alone, regardless of the hair dye.


It's not weird that I wanna take her on a picnic and run my fingers through her hair, is it?

I'm not a very good judge of what is or isn't weird, but that seems like a strong candidate...

Hawkstar
2015-09-18, 07:44 AM
DO play an extrovert.

Not all introvert drow are like Drizz't. Extroverted characters of all types are overrated and overdone. Heck, extroverted people are overrated and overdone.

Ninja_Prawn
2015-09-18, 08:21 AM
Heck, extroverted people are overrated and overdone.

So true. So, so true.

Real life is so heavily biased towards extroverts, it's unreal.

ThinkMinty
2015-09-18, 08:27 AM
Heck, extroverted people are overrated and overdone.

...why am I offended by the notion that I'm over-rated? I am, for some reason.


I'm not a very good judge of what is or isn't weird, but that seems like a strong candidate...

I mean, she's not real and a painting and I get that. I'm not five. I said that in the err...dunno. Like, if that lady was an actual person who existed was the context in which I made the earlier remark.

What makes bein' attracted to a Drow weird, tho? I'm humanoid, she's humanoid and cute, I fail to see anything wrong with it on the hypothetical level. I didn't mean to sexualize her or anything, just...her hair looks really fun to play with, I guess?


It looks like it, doesn't it? I'd say this artist (whose identity I haven't researched, unfortunately) has made a deliberate effort to portray a drow woman without over-sexualising her. It's a collector's item for that fact alone, regardless of the hair dye.

Yeah, it's a well-done portrait and she's got all her clothes on. Plus her hair is really cool n' cute.

Sigreid
2015-09-18, 09:19 AM
If somehow you are a female drow spider druid in a mithral thong with mithral spider pasties, a panther animal companion, who tries to bed/kill every other humanoid(for no reason), and says "death to elves" every other word, dial it back.

There goes my character concept.

Sigreid
2015-09-18, 09:23 AM
I was going for more the Deus part. As I said earlier, I prefer naturalistic explanations as a rule, helping keep the magic magical. It doesn't quite bug me on the level of how the Kender realm is protected even though they should have gone extinct long ago, but, still.

Could easily be a natural response to the strange radiation of the underdark.

Sith_Happens
2015-09-18, 10:44 PM
It's not weird that I wanna take her on a picnic and run my fingers through her hair, is it?

This question makes the optimistic assumption that she's (the Drow gal in the picture) into blond human guys enough to actually want to go on a picnic with me, or at least not be offended by me askin'.

Go for it... As long as you don't mind the picnic being underground and ending with her putting a collar on you and sending you to work the mines.:smalltongue:

NRSASD
2015-09-19, 01:44 AM
Life is short.
Ask out a drow!

If you follow the advice of this satirical proverb, this proverb is not responsible for how much shorter your life may suddenly become.

Coidzor
2015-09-19, 02:27 AM
http://free3dtutorials.com/2015_freetutorials/05/Drew_Baker_Drow_vs_Mindflayer/Drow_vs_Mindflayer_Struggle_Beneath.jpg

Don't you just hate it when guys won't take no for an answer? Dudes like that are part of why drow dames always overreact when you offer to buy them a drink.

LudicSavant
2015-09-19, 03:50 AM
http://free3dtutorials.com/2015_freetutorials/05/Drew_Baker_Drow_vs_Mindflayer/Drow_vs_Mindflayer_Struggle_Beneath.jpgDon't you just hate it when guys won't take no for an answer? Dudes like that are part of why drow dames always overreact when you offer to buy them a drink.

http://pre12.deviantart.net/619e/th/pre/f/2008/125/2/a/nivyss__drow_war_priestess_by_kraken_steelklaw.png

Also, in my only setting that treats drow anything close to the originals, the reason drow are known for revealing clothing isn't because of promiscuity, but because they are proudly displaying their health and fitness, which is thought to represent proof of their discipline, mettle, strength, and superiority as a society. To many drow cultures, it is those who are not fit that feel a need to cover themselves in shame. There's a massive difference between that kind of dress and dressing like a stripper, though (where the goal is to be objectified, instead of aggrandized). It's no different for men (which is why we don't classify Conan (http://pre06.deviantart.net/d7f6/th/pre/f/2012/165/c/c/conan_by_volkanyenen-d53fl2f.jpg) as objectified).

http://i.crackedcdn.com/phpimages/article/0/6/3/129063.jpg?v=1

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-iTtlOgGQ3ag/Vf0pYS4hW_I/AAAAAAAAGlM/IqQXfzyYgJ8/s640-Ic42/drow_by_jianjiagu-d64n0bo.jpg
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-2i2X5Ltu9s8/Vf0qCMHbnkI/AAAAAAAAGlk/a1Jh6meExuM/s640-Ic42/drow_matron_by_jamesjkrause-d52e3co.jpg

Some drow cultures also are big on the use of body art.

https://sites.google.com/site/dimitrizanella/drow_xendrik.jpg

Of course, none of this would ever interfere with them wearing armor into battle.

http://cleftlands.cwru.edu/gallery/weararmour.jpg

Sith_Happens
2015-09-20, 04:49 AM
http://pre12.deviantart.net/619e/th/pre/f/2008/125/2/a/nivyss__drow_war_priestess_by_kraken_steelklaw.png

That torso looks pretty darn unarmored to me. Covered? Yes. Armored? No.


Also, in my only setting that treats drow anything close to the originals, the reason drow are known for revealing clothing isn't because of promiscuity, but because they are proudly displaying their health and fitness, which is thought to represent proof of their discipline, mettle, strength, and superiority as a society. To many drow cultures, it is those who are not fit that feel a need to cover themselves in shame.

This is almost precisely the explanation used in the 3.5 version of Drow of the Underdark, except that the book makes it sound a lot more like a cop out.

LudicSavant
2015-09-20, 07:40 AM
That torso looks pretty darn unarmored to me. Covered? Yes. Armored? No.

Cut me some slack, finding armored drow pictures is hard :(

http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww351/Bromomancer/fullimg.jpg

ThinkMinty
2015-09-20, 07:58 AM
This is almost precisely the explanation used in the 3.5 version of Drow of the Underdark, except that the book makes it sound a lot more like a cop out.

It sounds pretty cop-outish to me, but I haven't read Drow of the Underdark yet. I probably should so I know what to avoid doing.

Ninja_Prawn
2015-09-20, 09:42 AM
Cut me some slack, finding armored drow pictures is hard :(

Finding pictures of clothed drow isn't exactly easy...

It's ridiculous how monolithic the portrayals of drow culture are. I guess half-orcs and gnomes have the same problem though. You'd think fantasy writers/artists would be more imaginative...

LudicSavant
2015-09-20, 09:44 AM
Finding pictures of clothed drow isn't exactly easy...

It's ridiculous how monolithic the portrayals of drow culture are. I guess half-orcs and gnomes have the same problem though. You'd think fantasy writers/artists would be more imaginative...

Eberron avoids this, boasting an actual variety of drow cultures. So that's cool. :smallsmile:

ThinkMinty
2015-09-20, 10:04 AM
It's ridiculous how monolithic the portrayals of drow culture are. I guess half-orcs and gnomes have the same problem though. You'd think fantasy writers/artists would be more imaginative...

I try to be, but I tend to think of culture as something imposed on individuals, rather than something that defines 'em, so I'm weird like that.

Anonymouswizard
2015-09-20, 10:51 AM
Finding pictures of clothed drow isn't exactly easy...

It's ridiculous how monolithic the portrayals of drow culture are. I guess half-orcs and gnomes have the same problem though. You'd think fantasy writers/artists would be more imaginative...

Considering that when I design worlds I generally leave out the non-humans, when I do I like to use spins on the 'traditional' ways races are presented.

So Orcs are Tribal. In the same way that the Irish run in clans. Orcish technology lags roughly 10 years to a century behind human technology but that's because they don't produce as many engineers. And so on.

ThinkMinty
2015-09-20, 11:09 AM
So Orcs are Tribal. In the same way that the Irish run in clans. Orcish technology lags roughly 10 years to a century behind human technology but that's because they don't produce as many engineers. And so on.

That's pretty cool. I made mine sorta Amish to turn the Proud Warrior Culture thing on its head. A lot of them end up deserting it due to it being really...stifling, if you're not someone who flourishes while stifled.

The Tygre
2015-09-20, 12:02 PM
There's a great book by Green Ronin on drow called Plot and Poison. It offers an entire long section on the drow mindset and worldview.

Remember: Drow have darkvision. They can see in the Underdark naturally. Any lights beyond the minimal are there for the benefit of their slaves. Consider how this effects art; drow are less reliant on paintings and more on carvings.

Remember: Drow, like elves, do not sleep. And unlike elves, they do not live by a day/night cycle. This means that drow cities are constantly busy. Only a portion of the population will be resting at any given time in a drow city.

Remember: Drow are not above enslaving each other. The drow mindset is rooted in survival of the fittest. If a drow can afford it, they will buy slaves from their own race.

Don't: Confide your deities to Lolth. The Spider Queen is the heart of drow religion. But even in the strictest drow matriarchy, there is still room for servitor demons, saints, officiated demigods, and different aspects of Lolth to be worshiped.

Don't: Assume that spiders are the only vermin drow interact with. The drow interact with spiders as much from proximity as devotion to Lolth. The Underdark is swarming with giant vermin. Spiders were but the stepping stone to a whole range of vermiculture. Centipedes, beetles, and even slugs are all common around drow communities.

Braininthejar2
2015-09-20, 01:51 PM
Because of how they think, drow never treat others as equals - even each other; there must always be a pecking order.

The other version of the drow myth is that Lolth turned their skin black to help them hunt in the darkness, and the Seldarine gave them stark white hair because they were jerks.

Hawkstar
2015-09-20, 01:57 PM
It sounds pretty cop-outish to me, but I haven't read Drow of the Underdark yet. I probably should so I know what to avoid doing.

I think it has more to do with the perceptions and sensibilities of the reader than the intentions of the author.

Coidzor
2015-09-20, 07:18 PM
Finding pictures of clothed drow isn't exactly easy...

It's ridiculous how monolithic the portrayals of drow culture are. I guess half-orcs and gnomes have the same problem though. You'd think fantasy writers/artists would be more imaginative...

Half-orc... cul...ture? :smallconfused:

Everyone knows that they're always either disliked elements of human culture or disliked elements of orc culture. :smalltongue:

ThinkMinty
2015-09-21, 12:43 AM
Half-orc... cul...ture? :smallconfused:

Everyone knows that they're always either disliked elements of human culture or disliked elements of orc culture. :smalltongue:

Speaking of which: Half-Elves, except that one setting.

Zarohk
2017-03-15, 10:48 AM
Do: Recognize that accidents happen, history is largely a series of mistakes that worked out in the end, and people who go traveling long distances in unfamiliar places (like, say, the surface) can and do get lost.

Don't: Feel confined to only one population of Drow, those Lloth-touched city-dwellers are a bunch of idiots rearranging deck chairs on the Thay's Invincibility.

Do: Be a descendant of a swamp-dwelling group of spider druids, or a bunch of raiders who screwed up their exit strategy and became a pirate crew instead

Still Do: Be Superior to everyone else. You're still an elf, for Tiamat's sake!

Just something to consider: High-level druids have slowed aging (1/10 in 5e) & Drow also have slowed aging, so Drow Druids live for a ridiculously long time. Druids can easily shift back and forth multiple times per day. A colony of Spider Druid drow who live in a swamp and don't get out much may emerge to find that the rest of the world is radically different than they remember last time they went out, to the point where they might only barely speak the same common, have a totally different history, etc.

Or they might know just enough about werewolves / druidism to think that they're spider-people. Dark, spider-like skin (black widows & other dark-colored spiders). Their worship of Lolth may be… not innocent, but species-focused: "She's the spider goddess, we are spiders, like it or not."

RedMage125
2017-03-16, 01:12 AM
Only read the first page, glad too see the OP getting lots of positive feedback.

I want to build on this:


Things you can and probably should do:
-Don't be freaked out by spiders and creepy crawlies
-Have some moxie, but don't be a total prick about it
-Familiarity with crossbows, scimitars, and other Drow weapons
-See poison as a tool, nothing more or less
-Respect your mom


Make your character stand out as unique. (It's not just about avoiding cookie cutter "typical backstabbing drow" or "typical CG rebel drow" molds, but yes, avoid those). You could be a drow who's never been to the Underdark. Maybe your parents were the "rebel" type, but you're 1st-generation surface drow whose never even MET a cleric of Lolth before, but has heard stories. Maybe you're a Lawful, honorable type who hated the chaos and misandry of drow culture and decided to leave, but you are still a product of your environment, and view poison and murder as acceptable means to an end, even if that end is ultimately Good/Neutral/Lawful/whatever. If you ARE a fugitive from drow society, perhaps your fear or even hate your mother.

Point is though, you DEFINITELY want to avoid being a character that cannot cooperate with a group. But still be fun and interesting. Make your character someone that other adventurers will be willing to adventure with.

weckar
2017-03-16, 03:31 AM
Rise from the ashessss... to haunt these pages once mooooore...

Anonymouswizard
2017-03-16, 08:12 AM
Turn Unthread!

Anyway, I'm going to give my opinion on how to correctly do a PC drow: play them as either neutral evil or lawful evil (my favourite is LE, because i like lawful characters). Then play with the site stereotypes, maybe you politic without being a backstabber, maybe you believe that it's actually right and natural for drow nobles to mistreat you, maybe you're a rebel who just wants the world to be better for them.

Oh, and put some clothes on. One of the characters i really want to play is a female 'lower class' drow wizard, sent up to the surface to find some artefact important to her master. While she doesn't see anything inherently wrong with revealing clothing she mainly wears trousers, a tunic or short robe, and a straw hat for practical reasons.