Hearthstone Arena 0-3: We Are The 12.5%

[Lethologica]

Hearthstone Arena 0-3:
We Are The 12.5%

This is the thread for the GitP community to collectively draft Hearthstone decks. The drafters post each pick, and we decide what they pick. After each draft, people may guess how many wins the deck will achieve. The person with the best guess starts the next draft.

Despite the name, we haven't actually had a 0-3 run yet. Step right up and you could be the first! :smallbiggrin:

Previous threads:
Hearthstone Arena Drafting! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?416906-Hearthstone-Arena-Drafting!)
Hearthstone Arena II: Pay Attention Class (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?428068-Hearthstone-Arena-II-Pay-Attention-Class)

[Lethologica]

THE BARON HAS SPOKEN
GEDDON OR GEDDOFF
BUT DON'T STAND IN THE DOOR
OF THIS HYPE TRAIN

1. Coliseum Manager / Mana Wraith / Ancient Watcher
2. Argent Horserider / Abusive Sergeant / Raid Leader
3. Swipe / Dark Iron Dwarf / Ironforge Rifleman
4. Spectral Knight / Argent Squire / Dragonhawk Rider
5. Mad Bomber / Starfire / Razorfen Hunter
6. Burly Rockjaw Trogg / Lance Carrier / Tournament Attendee
7. Maiden of the Lake / Goldshire Footman / Wild Growth
8. Power of the Wild / Reckless Rocketeer / Poison Seeds
9. Cult Master / Argent Squire / Bluegill Warrior
10. Knife Juggler / Sunfury Protector / Keeper of the Grove
11. Ironbeak Owl / Windfury Harpy / Lance Carrier
12. Violet Teacher / Mana Wraith / Dragon Egg
13. Swipe / Cult Master / Wildwalker
14. Worgen Infiltrator / Boneguard Lieutenant / Lost Tallstrider
15. Harvest Golem / Thrallmar Farseer / Priestess of Elune
16. Chillwind Yeti / Flame Juggler / Flesheating Ghoul
17. Pit Fighter / Wildwalker / Silver Hand Knight
18. Swipe / Scarlet Crusader / Pit Fighter
19. Goblin Sapper / Coliseum Manager / Ancient Mage
20. Pint-Sized Summoner / Master Swordsmith / Mana Addict
21. Druid of the Claw / Bluegill Warrior / Murloc Tidehunter
22. Hungry Dragon / Dragonhawk Rider / Tournament Medic
23. Stranglethorn Tiger / Stormwind Knight / Bloodsail Raider
24. Drakonid Crusher / Moonfire / Priestess of Elune
25. Swipe / Drakonid Crusher / Burly Rockjaw Trogg
26. Bloodsail Raider / Wolfrider / Naturalize
27. Grove Tender / Mana Addict / Coldlight Oracle
28. Gnomish Inventor / Wildwalker / Dancing Swords
29. Claw / Ice Rager / Mark of Nature
30. Baron Geddon / Fjola Lightbane / Illidan Stormrage
Curve: 2-6-5-11-4-1-1
Critter curve: 1-5-5-7-4-1-1

Taking bets!

[Anarion]

For what it's worth, I would have considered the wildwalker there. It's basically a build your own captured Jormungar more or less. Plus the body itself is better stats than the little gnome, even if there isn't built in card advantage. Even if gnome was right, I wouldn't have called that one an auto-pick.

But anyway, 4 swipes and a middle of the road curve that's likely to produce a consistent early game and a nearly endless stream of 4 drops? I'm calling it good. 7 wins. Live the dream.

[Gandariel]

Vote to rename the thread "Hearthstone Arena 0-3: the dream!"

Also, solid deck. 9 wins. You're gonna wreck some Paladins.

And Ice Rager is a decent card. Claw is probably better, but it's definitely not an autopick

Gnomish Inventor *was* the right pick.
Windwalker isn't even that good in a beast deck.

[Lethologica]

For what it's worth, I would have considered the wildwalker there. It's basically a build your own captured Jormungar more or less. Plus the body itself is better stats than the little gnome, even if there isn't built in card advantage. Even if gnome was right, I wouldn't have called that one an auto-pick.

But anyway, 4 swipes and a middle of the road curve that's likely to produce a consistent early game and a nearly endless stream of 4 drops? I'm calling it good. 7 wins. Live the dream.
I suppose it's closer than I thought at the time. Two things, though. First, gnome is consistently one-and-a-half cards; Wildwalker is sometimes half a card, sometimes two cards, and there aren't many opportunities to make him 2 cards. Second, with the curve, I'm going to rely on multiple cards a turn starting turn 6 at the very latest, and Inventor plays into that much better.


Vote to rename the thread "Hearthstone Arena 0-3: the dream!"
If multiple people ask for it, I'll change it.

(I went back through all the drafts and we have not had a 0-3 yet. The dream is still alive!)

[Anarion]

Gnomish Inventor *was* the right pick.
Windwalker isn't even that good in a beast deck.

I'm surprised. It's the exact same cost and body as dark iron dwarf. Granted, +3 health to a beast is way worse than +2 attack for a single turn to anything, but it can allow random 3/2 beasts to trade and then stick on board or make a stranglethorn tiger or a transformed druid extremely hard to kill, allowing for a solid two for one. I agree that gnome was the right pick here given the extremely limited targets, but I don't think it's a bad card in the abstract and there might be some decks with a higher beast count where a 4/4 for 4 and +3 health to something consistently beats out a card and a 2/4.

[GolemsVoice]

I say 5 wins! Go and conquer!

[Mando Knight]

I'm surprised. It's the exact same cost and body as dark iron dwarf. Granted, +3 health to a beast is way worse than +2 attack for a single turn to anything, but it can allow random 3/2 beasts to trade and then stick on board or make a stranglethorn tiger or a transformed druid extremely hard to kill, allowing for a solid two for one. I agree that gnome was the right pick here given the extremely limited targets, but I don't think it's a bad card in the abstract and there might be some decks with a higher beast count where a 4/4 for 4 and +3 health to something consistently beats out a card and a 2/4.

Yeah, I think Wildwalker would be decent in a full-on Beast Druid deck, or even if the 2-mana slot was filled with Crocs and Raptors. Temple Enforcer is a good Arena card, Wildwalker is a more specific Temple Enforcer that comes out two turns earlier. When you get a lot of those transforming druids or other value-beasts in a draft (and all three of Druid of the Claw/Flame/Saber are worthwhile on their own, even if Flame and Saber aren't top tier), it's worth drafting the synergy cards, especially if their stats are OK alone (you'd rather have a Yeti's 4/5 for 4, but 4/4 for 4 is alright).

[Gandariel]

Let me clarify:

Windwalker is obviously good in a deck that can reliably make use of its ability, and is mediocre otherwise (i've gotten so many Ogre magi with no spells in Arena).

I was just making the consideration that it's weaker than Houndmaster, and that I think if a Beast Druid deck were to exist, it would probably not run this card (for the same reason why Temple enforcer isn't run in Priest)

[heronbpv]

@Lethologica:

8 wins.

[Jormengand]

3. I'm gonna go 3.

[thirsting]

12 wins, just to startle someone else who always has so much faith in the skills of others. (and/or just wants to make sure they do not get the next drafting shift)

[Lethologica]

I'll be starting my run around 8 PDT, so that'll be the deadline for predictions.

(I wonder what happened to GAAD?)

[The_Jackal]

12 wins, just to startle someone else who always has so much faith in the skills of others. (and/or just wants to make sure they do not get the next drafting shift)

Excellent. The believers are growing!

11 wins. I believe in you, but not quite as much as Thirsting, apparently.

[onasuma]

I think Ive drafted a pretty damn good deck here. Its a rare occurance for me. I wanted to document it:

Earthshock
Lightning bolt
Rockbiter
Leper Gnome
Lightwarden
Southsea Deckhand
Ancestral Knowledge
Bluegill Warrior
Boneguard Lieutenant
Flamejuggler
Flametongue totem
Totem golem x2
Whirling zapomatic
Argent horserider
Fencing Coach
Mana Tide Totem
Shattered Sun Cleric
Tauren Warrior
Tuskarr Totemic
Charged Hammer
Burly Rockjaw Trogg
Chillwind Yeti
Darkiron Dwarf
Piloted Shredder
Earth Elemental
Fire elemental x2
Grand Crusader
Northsea Kraken

Bets?

[Lethologica]

I'd give you 7 wins with strong deck potential for double digits.

[Epinephrine_Syn]

As a side note, do 12.5% of runs 'really' end in 0-3? That feels… uniquely odd.

[Jormengand]

As a side note, do 12.5% of runs 'really' end in 0-3? That feels… uniquely odd.

Well, if each game has a 50% chance to be won and a 50% chance to be lost, it should be about that, although it's probably actually a little more likely as "Good" and "Bad" decks are more likely to have many wins or many losses.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

As a side note, do 12.5% of runs 'really' end in 0-3? That feels… uniquely odd.
Well, it's not quite that. The figure only actually applies to the first three games of a run. But it's amusing. The main error in this number is that runs don't end at a particular number of games, so you can't do a straight probability tree for them.

[onasuma]

The above deck just went 12-1, only losing to what I could only assume was an error as my opponent was clearly a constructed miracle rogue. First time hitting top prize, feels good!

[GAAD]

Flametongue #2 taken

Decklist:

1:

2:
Ancestral Knowledge
Annoy-o-tron
Flametongue Totem 2
Mad Bomber
Totem Golem
Whirling Zap-o-Matic
3:
Arcane Golem
Injured Blademaster
Ironforge Rifleman
4:
Fireguard Destroyer
Refreshment Vendor
5:
Doomhammer
Spiteful Smith
6:
Master Jouster
7+:
North Sea Kraken

Pick 17. Whirling Zap-o-matic#2/Ancestral Healing/Lowly Squire

[Lethologica]

Deck quality (for individual runs) and the 12-win cap don't matter for the percentage of 0-3 runs. What matters is strict record matching. Without strict record matching, you could have e.g. the same players face each other 3 times in a row, with the same results each round, and then 50% of the pool ended their runs at 0-3. With strict record matching, 50% of the player pool drops to 0-1 and faces each other, 25% lose again and face each other, and 12.5% lose a third time and fall to 0-3. Hearthstone's record matching is reasonably good, but not totally strict, so 12.5% isn't quite accurate.

The other factors that influence this are that the player pool is constantly changing, and that different records may have different queue rates. In the extreme case, consider a scenario where everyone who reaches 0-2 simply stops playing; the rate of 0-3 runs drops to 0%. In practice, good players probably queue more rapidly and frequently due to both interest and steady gold income, leading to a bias where the average run is better than the average player. This is harder to model, though. In particular, I'm not sure if this doesn't generate an equal opposing force where the good players end up with average runs due to having to face other good players.

Oh, and easy Whirling Zap-o-Matic for GAAD.

[Anarion]

The above deck just went 12-1, only losing to what I could only assume was an error as my opponent was clearly a constructed miracle rogue. First time hitting top prize, feels good!

That's impressive. I'm curious how you ended up drafting that. 20 of your cards cost 3 or less and you have several 1-drops that combine to make a really powerful curve, but that one wouldn't typically expect to draft in arena unless the alternatives were especially bad.

[Olinser]

As a side note, do 12.5% of runs 'really' end in 0-3? That feels… uniquely odd.

Logically, it should actually be MORE. 12.5% is a pure statistical average.

Remember, since you are playing real people, this is a zero sum game. For every win, somebody else has to take a loss. So for every run that has MORE than 3 wins, somebody else has to absorb those losses. And given the kind of people that lose that badly, I would not be surprised at all to learn that 0-3 runs are MORE common than 1-3 runs.

Something like 50% of runs end in 2-3 or worse.

[Lethologica]

Time to get the party started.

Game 1: vs. Priest. I had a modest curve--PotW, Coliseum Manager, Cult Master. This man wanted to hit face, but he didn't have a turn 3 play and his turn 4 play was Lance Carrier--not used to trade, mind you, just to buff the Flame Juggler hitting my face. I cleared more of my own minions with Geddon than he did. 1-0

Game 2: vs. Shaman. This guy basically Overloaded himself to death. Turn 2 Stormforged Axe, turn 3 totem. Turn 5 Unbound Elemental + Ancestral Knowledge. Turn 6 Rockbiter + Elemental Destruction! By the time he had mana to make plays, I could play Drakonid Crusher as a 9/9, and then Swipe+Druid of the Claw next turn to burn him down. 2-0

Game 3: vs. Druid. We both have solid opening curves and end up trading everything off. I get a mid-game board set up, but he has card advantage and a series of would-be finishers--Kvaldir Raider, Kodorider, a passel of minions + Mukla's Champion. Thankfully, I topdeck Swipe for that last one, which sets up a prime Geddon turn. He's too low by the time he topdecks Volcanic Lumberer. 3-0

Game 4: vs. Rogue. On the play, my Mad Bomber is a Flame Imp. We're pretty much even until the turn after I silence his Doomsayer with Ironbeak Owl. From there he has bigger cards (Shadopan pls) and more of them. We eventually clear each other's boards, and then he plays Jungle Panther and Defender of Argus. Guess what, his Doomsayer's useful again! With him at 3 life, 2 taunts on the board, against my Crusher and Trogg, I need to draw a finisher, but I draw Pit Fighter instead. Pretty sure I'd have won this if I'd made better use of Mad Bomber or Knife Juggler early--the RNG didn't work out. 3-1

That's all for now.


Logically, it should actually be MORE. 12.5% is a pure statistical average.

Remember, since you are playing real people, this is a zero sum game. For every win, somebody else has to take a loss. So for every run that has MORE than 3 wins, somebody else has to absorb those losses. And given the kind of people that lose that badly, I would not be surprised at all to learn that 0-3 runs are MORE common than 1-3 runs.

Something like 50% of runs end in 2-3 or worse.
The bolded is already accounted for in the statistical average. Moreover, because of matchmaking, the people absorbing the losses at 6 wins are other people with 6 wins. When a 0-2 player queues, he usually faces another 0-2 player, and one of them isn't going 0-3 no matter how bad they are.

It is the case that, absent other factors, 50% of runs will be 2-3 or worse. Statistically, 1/8 of runs end 0-3, 1/16*3 = 3/16 of runs end 1-3, 1/32*6 = 3/16 of runs end 2-3.
(The rest:
3-3: 1/64 * 10 = 5/32
4-3: 1/128 * 15 = 15/128
5-3: 1/256 * 21 = 21/256
6-3: 1/512 * 28 = 14/256
7-3: 1/1024 * 36 = 9/256
8-3: 1/2048 * 45 = 45/2048
9-3: 1/4096 * 55 = 55/4096
10-3: 1/8192 * 66 = 33/4096
11-3: 1/16384 * 78 = 39/8192
12-2: 1/16384 * 78 = 39/8192
12-1: 1/8192 * 12 = 3/2048
12-0: 1/4096

Naturally, this sums to 1.)

For the reasons I outlined earlier, this isn't exact. I would be interested to see how good of an approximation it is.

[Anarion]

Logically, it should actually be MORE. 12.5% is a pure statistical average.

Remember, since you are playing real people, this is a zero sum game. For every win, somebody else has to take a loss. So for every run that has MORE than 3 wins, somebody else has to absorb those losses. And given the kind of people that lose that badly, I would not be surprised at all to learn that 0-3 runs are MORE common than 1-3 runs.

Something like 50% of runs end in 2-3 or worse.

You missed Lethologica's point. If people who are 0-0 only play other 0-0 people, 50% of the playerbase is not going 0-3 (because they won a game). If people who are 0-1 only play people who are 0-1, 25% of the playerbase ends up 0-2 while the other 25% ends up 1-1 (so they wont' be 0-3). Finally, with 25% of the playerbase remaining, if 0-2 people only play 0-2 people, 12.5% of the playerbase winds up 0-3 while the other 12.5% gets a win and will not be 0-3.

We know that statistic can't actually be true because hearthstone doesn't perfectly matchmake you only with people who have an identical record. But it's pretty good so the number is reasonably accurate.

Also note that the 12.5% has nothing to do with how many wins the people who get wins go on to get. It's just looking at what happens to the population if they only play people with the same record, and it is guaranteed to be 12.5% if that were always true.

edit: Also if it's considerably more than 12.5%, Blizzard is being seriously mean to its playerbase, since that would mean that the 0-1 or 0-2 people are playing people with a winning record.

[Olinser]

You missed Lethologica's point. If people who are 0-0 only play other 0-0 people, 50% of the playerbase is not going 0-3 (because they won a game). If people who are 0-1 only play people who are 0-1, 25% of the playerbase ends up 0-2 while the other 25% ends up 1-1 (so they wont' be 0-3). Finally, with 25% of the playerbase remaining, if 0-2 people only play 0-2 people, 12.5% of the playerbase winds up 0-3 while the other 12.5% gets a win and will not be 0-3.

We know that statistic can't actually be true because hearthstone doesn't perfectly matchmake you only with people who have an identical record. But it's pretty good so the number is reasonably accurate.

Also note that the 12.5% has nothing to do with how many wins the people who get wins go on to get. It's just looking at what happens to the population if they only play people with the same record, and it is guaranteed to be 12.5% if that were always true.

edit: Also if it's considerably more than 12.5%, Blizzard is being seriously mean to its playerbase, since that would mean that the 0-1 or 0-2 people are playing people with a winning record.

I didn't say 50% were going 0-3. I said 50% are 2-3 or worse, and given the type of people that would actually lose that many games in a row (most likely due to very poor deck construction), I would not be shocked if 0-3s were MORE common than 1-3s or 2-3s.

And it does make perfect sense that 0-1 or 0-2 people are playing people that have a winning record, if the focus is keeping people matched with people close to your skill level rather than arena record. It makes heck of a lot more sense putting somebody 0-2 against somebody 2-0 with a close MMR than it does putting a 0-2 rank 40 against a 0-2 rank 1 just because they are both 0-2.

[Lethologica]

I didn't say 50% were going 0-3. I said 50% are 2-3 or worse.

And it does make perfect sense that 0-1 or 0-2 people are playing people that have a winning record, if the focus is keeping people matched with people close to your skill level rather than arena record. It makes heck of a lot more sense putting somebody 0-2 against somebody 2-0 with a close MMR than it does putting a 0-2 rank 40 against a 0-2 rank 1 just because they are both 0-2.
Arena doesn't do MMR. It tries to match W/L in that run.

And per my previous post, 0-3 is expected to be less common than both 1-3 and 2-3.

[Olinser]

Arena doesn't do MMR. It tries to match W/L in that run.

And per my previous post, 0-3 is expected to be less common than both 1-3 and 2-3.

Unless they've changed things recently, no it doesn't.

Went through an arena run and added friends who would take me. Nobody was really close to my record. At 0-0 I beat a 2-1, at 1-0 I beat a 3-1, at 2-0 I beat a 1-2, then a few people wouldn't accept, then at 3-2 I lost to a 6-1.

[onasuma]

That's impressive. I'm curious how you ended up drafting that. 20 of your cards cost 3 or less and you have several 1-drops that combine to make a really powerful curve, but that one wouldn't typically expect to draft in arena unless the alternatives were especially bad.

So, I tend away from hearth arena etc for rating cards like that, so I'm not quite sure which cards you're referring to. I think all my 1's are solid.

[Destro_Yersul]

Unless they've changed things recently, no it doesn't.

Went through an arena run and added friends who would take me. Nobody was really close to my record. At 0-0 I beat a 2-1, at 1-0 I beat a 3-1, at 2-0 I beat a 1-2, then a few people wouldn't accept, then at 3-2 I lost to a 6-1.

Yes it does. (https://twitter.com/cm_zeriyah/status/421056491840229377)

[Lethologica]

Unless they've changed things recently, no it doesn't.

Went through an arena run and added friends who would take me. Nobody was really close to my record. At 0-0 I beat a 2-1, at 1-0 I beat a 3-1, at 2-0 I beat a 1-2, then a few people wouldn't accept, then at 3-2 I lost to a 6-1.
It's been match-by-W/L for at least a year (https://twitter.com/CM_Zeriyah/status/421056491840229377), and I'm pretty sure it was that way in beta. Perhaps you queued at a particularly inactive time.

[Gandariel]

So, I tend away from hearth arena etc for rating cards like that, so I'm not quite sure which cards you're referring to. I think all my 1's are solid.

Lightwarden is a subpar card since you're not Priest and Southsea Deckhand is subpar because you don't have enough weapons.

Leper gnome is actually good in your deck, since it's hyper aggressive enough.

Also, congrats :)

[Anarion]

Lightwarden is a subpar card since you're not Priest and Southsea Deckhand is subpar because you don't have enough weapons.

Leper gnome is actually good in your deck, since it's hyper aggressive enough.

Also, congrats :)

Yeah those were the three. Leper gnome is good in that deck, but it must either have appeared late so it could be evaluated properly or been in a terrible pack. The other two are subpar, though good insofar as they are 1 drops in an aggressive deck.

[Lethologica]

Time for some more games!

Game 5: vs. Shaman. We trade back and forth a lot, but I play my Geddon for a small immediate advantage and regret it a few turns later when he has a mountain of weenies on the board. I never quite catch up. 3-2

Game 6: vs. Shaman. I have Infiltrator in hand, that's cool. Early tempo puts me board up and Swipes help maintain it. I stall out a bit around turn 8, Hex kills my momentum entirely, Fire Elemental secures his board advantage, and Thunder Bluff Valiant secures the win with all those totems build off board advantage. 3-3

Pretty sure I played like **** this entire run. Got a legendary out of it!...it's Blingtron. Got dust out of it! :smallyuk:

Jormengand has the next run.

[Gandariel]

Whooooa, you disenchanted Blingtron?

It's really fun to play (and actually pretty legit)

You basically run a variant of Mech mage, with Water Elementals, Snowchuggers and Blingtron.
You play blingtron (possibly taking out his weapon too), freeze his face with a minion or a frostbolt, and kill him. The average weapon (statistically) is more or less a 4/2, and even if you don't get the freeze on his face, when you're playing Mech Mage your opponent is very wary of trading away more of their Health.

[Jormengand]

THRALL/VALEERA SANGUINAAR/ANDUIN WRYNN

Well then... seems that my paladin/warrior dominance isn't happening any time soon.

[heronbpv]

@Lethologica:
Sad run is sad.

@Jormengand:
I vote Priest, I would like to continue to see our perfomance on drafts with this class.

@GAAD:
Spin to win is the pick here.

[Anarion]

I vote rogue cuz I'm interested in seeing a stronger overall draft and also, doesn't Jorm just feel like a rogue to you? :smallwink:

[Olinser]

THRALL/VALEERA SANGUINAAR/ANDUIN WRYNN

Well then... seems that my paladin/warrior dominance isn't happening any time soon.

Shaman! ALWAYS TEH SHAMAN

[Lurkmoar]

I got a DLC voucher for this game. I don't play it myself and I have no clue what cards will be given from it, but does anyone here want the code?

[GAAD]

A)Lurky, you're in the wrong thread. You want the main HS thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?438549-Hearthstone-13-Inspire-Shuffle-Meta). But if you seriously have free cards you don't want, as a free to play player I'll take them. Just PM me the code; if it's legit I'm pretty sure I know where to input it.

B)Drafterino: Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
Decklist:

1:

2:
Ancestral Knowledge
Annoy-o-tron
Flametongue Totem 2
Mad Bomber
Totem Golem
Whirling Zap-o-Matic 2
3:
Arcane Golem
Injured Blademaster
Ironforge Rifleman
4:
Fireguard Destroyer
Refreshment Vendor
5:
Doomhammer
Spiteful Smith
6:
Master Jouster
7+:
North Sea Kraken

Pick 18. Fen Creeper/Dread Corsair/Jungle Panther

[Lurkmoar]

Well, frak. I'm embarrassed. Apologies.:smallredface:

[Mando Knight]

Doomhammer comes out too late and has too little Attack for the Dread Corsair payoff, so either the Fen Creeper or the Jungle Panther. I'm leaning more towards the Panther.

Jormengand: Rogue.

[Anarion]

Doomhammer comes out too late and has too little Attack for the Dread Corsair payoff, so either the Fen Creeper or the Jungle Panther. I'm leaning more towards the Panther.


I like the panther better. It's likely to trade well and Fen creeper always feels too costly for what it's doing.



Jormengand: Rogue.

Yes! *Hi fives Mando Knight.*

[Jormengand]

I vote rogue cuz I'm interested in seeing a stronger overall draft and also, doesn't Jorm just feel like a rogue to you? :smallwink:

:smallredface:

Funny, I would have thought that a truenamer-lover would feel more like a mage than a rogue. :smalltongue:

THRALL/VALEERA SANGUINAAR/ANDUIN WRYNN
Argent Commander/Cutpurse/Arcane Nullifier X-21

[thirsting]

I'd like to say Cutpurse, because it's new and interesting... But it really should have stealth. Argent Commander is likely much more useful. Chaaaarrge!

[Olinser]

So I legit felt bad in my last arena match.

Turn 1 I coined an Unstable Portal and got Stalagg. Dropped him on turn 3. Then dropped a Duplicate. He killed Stalagg I got 2 more.

A couple turns later I dropped an Effigy. Lost some random minion - got King Mukla.

I legit felt bad.

[Anarion]

Cutpurse is interesting. I think he's very good to drop in the first few turns or in combination with removal. If he lives a turn, you get +1 mana and combo turns on for every card you've got. That's really strong. But, if you play him early, he's weaker than average stats and suffers from the same problem as pint-sized summoner: you need to stick him for a whole turn to do anything. So, I'd say no, go with the Argent commander. Way more consistent.

[Lethologica]

GAAD: Jungle Panther.

Jormengand: Argent Commander.

[Jormengand]

Better to command the silver than take the gold.

THRALL/VALEERA SANGUINAAR/ANDUIN WRYNN
Argent Commander/Cutpurse/Arcane Nullifier X-21
Gang up/Spider Tank/Boulderfist Ogre

[thirsting]

Both minions are pretty good, but early game might be safer bet. Spider Tank.

Gang Up just does not work in Arena, usually..

[Lethologica]

Ghost in the Shell is better than Attack on Titan.

[Jormengand]

But how is it going to tank for us if it only has 4 hit points?

THRALL/VALEERA SANGUINAAR/ANDUIN WRYNN
Argent Commander/Cutpurse/Arcane Nullifier X-21
Gang up/Spider Tank/Boulderfist Ogre
Razorfen Hunter/Undercity Valiant/Buccaneer

[Lethologica]

Edge to the Valiant, but it's a close call. Buccaneer is a darn good 3-drop.

[Anarion]

Tough one. Bucaneer is really strong early and can enable some really interesting mid to late plays (play him and then as assassins blade).

Leth's probably right, but I'm going to say Bucaneer just to make it so someone else has to weigh in. :smalltongue:

[The_Jackal]

Tough one. Bucaneer is really strong early and can enable some really interesting mid to late plays (play him and then as assassins blade).

Leth's probably right, but I'm going to say Bucaneer just to make it so someone else has to weigh in. :smalltongue:

Buccaneer is crazygonutz. He may only be a one drop, but he pretty much commands removal. Versus any of the six classes that can't readily remove him with the hero power, he's got insane upside. Undercity Valiant is basically Ironforge Rifleman with better stats. Meh.

[Mando Knight]

I really like the Buccaneer on paper. He's like a 1-drop version of Goblin Auto-Barber that can be played better on curve. Rogue's hero power is the strongest of any of them if you have to play it instead of a 2-drop, and the Buccaneer lets you answer an enemy 3/2 with your knife instead of the Buccaneer, which actually does fit well with the Rogue playstyle since you'll still have another swing afterward. If your opponent decides to hero power him instead of playing a 2-drop, you can keep tempo with a 2-drop instead, and they'll still be behind on board.

[Jormengand]

Yarr!

Okay, I'm going to autopick the next one to save time.

THRALL/VALEERA SANGUINAAR/ANDUIN WRYNN
Argent Commander/Cutpurse/Arcane Nullifier X-21
Gang up/Spider Tank/Boulderfist Ogre
Razorfen Hunter/Undercity Valiant/Buccaneer
Dire Wolf Alpha/Oasis Snapjaw/Tournament Attendee
Acidic Swamp Ooze/Conceal/Ogre Brute

Genuinely not sure which of the minions is better, but I imagine it's Ogre Brute.

[Lethologica]

Ooze is my preference. Weapons are good. Killing weapons is therefore also good. And he's playable on curve if need be.

[Jormengand]

Ooze is my preference. Weapons are good. Killing weapons is therefore also good. And he's playable on curve if need be.

Yeah, but no-one has weapons in arena.

[Lethologica]

Yeah, but no-one has weapons in arena.
Three of the four best classes have strong common-rarity weapons. If you see Hunter or Warrior go deep, it's likely they picked up their good weapons. As situational 2-for-1s go, it's more common than most.

Not an easy call between it and Brute, but I still think it's better.

[thirsting]

Ooze. Because what Lethalogica said.

[Gandariel]

The Ooze is the pick here.
Also, I would have picked Oasis Snapjaw over Dire wold alpha. And in no way was that an auto pick.

[Sian]

Orge Brute, 4/4 early in the game can snowball easily, even if it doesn't always hits its target, which might every now and again be a good thing as it can bypass Taunts

[Mando Knight]

Three of the four best classes have strong common-rarity weapons. If you see Hunter or Warrior go deep, it's likely they picked up their good weapons. As situational 2-for-1s go, it's more common than most.

Not an easy call between it and Brute, but I still think it's better.

Shaman's position in the Arena meta is debatable. I've seen it placed as the middle of the road class in TGT, and Stormforged Axe isn't a TGT weapon.

More to the point, of the top three, Rogue always has a knife to play, and Paladin's weapon availability is pretty solid as well, with two of its three best class Rares being weapons and one of those being a TGT card as well (which boosts how often it's offered).

Ooze is a viable 2-drop that can also counter Paladin or Rogue weapons either if they're played early or later on as a general utility card.

[Jormengand]

That's a nice doomhammer you have there. A pity if something were to happen to it.

Is time for a little autopicking.

THRALL/VALEERA SANGUINAAR/ANDUIN WRYNN
Argent Commander/Cutpurse/Arcane Nullifier X-21
Gang up/Spider Tank/Boulderfist Ogre
Razorfen Hunter/Undercity Valiant/Buccaneer
Dire Wolf Alpha/Oasis Snapjaw/Tournament Attendee
Acidic Swamp Ooze/Conceal/Ogre Brute
Tournament Attendee/Amani Berserker/Reckless Rocketeer
Refreshment Vendor/Gadgetzan Jouster/Boulderfist Ogre

[Lethologica]

This is an autopick. :smallamused:

[Blue Ghost]

Aye, Boulderfist Ogre is the way to go.

[Jormengand]

I still don't get the name. Does he wear boulders as gloves? Are his fists literally boulders? Does he just like punching boulders?

THRALL/VALEERA SANGUINAAR/ANDUIN WRYNN
Argent Commander/Cutpurse/Arcane Nullifier X-21
Gang up/Spider Tank/Boulderfist Ogre
Razorfen Hunter/Undercity Valiant/Buccaneer
Dire Wolf Alpha/Oasis Snapjaw/Tournament Attendee
Acidic Swamp Ooze/Conceal/Ogre Brute
Tournament Attendee/Amani Berserker/Reckless Rocketeer
Refreshment Vendor/Gadgetzan Jouster/Boulderfist Ogre
Bloodsail Raider/Betrayal/Shado-pan rider

Ogre #2?

[thirsting]

Again two similar cards in different weight classes.. I'd take cheaper one again. Rogue is one of the better classes for Bloodsail Raider.

[Sian]

I'd take the Shado-Pan Rider, and then your late game seems to be pretty much sown up for the time being.

[Lethologica]

Rogue is the best class for Bloodsail Raider.

Shado-Pan Rider is still better.

[Anarion]

I'd take shado-pan here also. That card has consistently impressed me. Boulderfist a turn early or in combination with something that's actually relevant can really turn a game in your favor.

[Lethologica]

I'd take shado-pan here also. That card has consistently impressed me. Boulderfist a turn early or in combination with something that's actually relevant can really turn a game in your favor.
Oh man, turn 4 Boulderfist with the coin? Go to town. Value town.

[onasuma]

Yeah those were the three. Leper gnome is good in that deck, but it must either have appeared late so it could be evaluated properly or been in a terrible pack. The other two are subpar, though good insofar as they are 1 drops in an aggressive deck.

Late response I know, but lightwarden was godly - combining it with a healing totem got it to such high power so quickly. I don't think it ever traded for less than a 5 drop.

[Jormengand]

If you look carefully, that's actually an ogre.

THRALL/VALEERA SANGUINAAR/ANDUIN WRYNN
Argent Commander/Cutpurse/Arcane Nullifier X-21
Gang up/Spider Tank/Boulderfist Ogre
Razorfen Hunter/Undercity Valiant/Buccaneer
Dire Wolf Alpha/Oasis Snapjaw/Tournament Attendee
Acidic Swamp Ooze/Conceal/Ogre Brute
Tournament Attendee/Amani Berserker/Reckless Rocketeer
Refreshment Vendor/Gadgetzan Jouster/Boulderfist Ogre
Bloodsail Raider/Betrayal/Shado-pan rider
Elven Archer/Gurubashi Berserker/Silent Knight

[Mando Knight]

Rogues can't ping their own creatures reliably, so Gurubashi Berserker isn't as good, and I don't really care for having Elven Archer take up a spot in a deck, usually. I think Silent Knight is actually the pick here, as he's exceptionally difficult to remove before he gets his hit in.

[heronbpv]

Elven Archer/Gurubashi Berserker/Silent Knight

Shush Knight over garbage.

And is GAAD still drafting?

[Sian]

Silent Knight is decent, not good but loads better than the other options here

[Blue Ghost]

I would go Silent Knight as well. Is he no longer silent if he's Silenced?

[Lethologica]

GAAD has been drafting quite slowly, so he's probably not gone, but there is room for more thread activity.

[GAAD]

WH3333333333333333333333333333333
Decklist:

1:

2:
Ancestral Knowledge
Annoy-o-tron
Flametongue Totem 2
Mad Bomber
Totem Golem
Whirling Zap-o-Matic 3
3:
Arcane Golem
Injured Blademaster
Ironforge Rifleman
Jungle Panther
4:
Fireguard Destroyer
Refreshment Vendor
5:
Doomhammer
Spiteful Smith
6:
Master Jouster
7+:
North Sea Kraken

Pick 20. Abomination/Stampeding Kodo/Gnomish Experimenter

[Mando Knight]

TOTEMIC MIGHT... is one of the worst class cards in the game. Dust Devil is a worse Zap-O-Matic, and then there's the third Zap-O-Matic.

This is auto-pick levels of "WHEEEEEEEEE!"

[thirsting]

Shush! Zap!

...

Uhm.. that's all I had. Redundancy.

[Anarion]

I'm seeing GAAD's pick choices as

Pick 20. Abomination/Stampeding Kodo/Gnomish Experimenter

So I'm a little confused about the responses. I'd take the kodo there because it's the best card in the pack.

[Lethologica]

I'm seeing GAAD's pick choices as
He edited after replies were given.

Kodo's good.

[Mando Knight]

I'm seeing GAAD's pick choices as


So I'm a little confused about the responses. I'd take the kodo there because it's the best card in the pack.


He edited after replies were given.

Kodo's good.

For posterity, the three were Totemic Might/Dust Devil/Whirling Zap-o-Matic #3. As I said, the Dust Devil (3/1 for 1, Overload 2, Windfury) is a strictly worse Zap-o-Matic (3/2 for 2, Mech, Windfury), and Totemic Might is... Totemic Might.

Anyway, on the current pick, Stampeding Kodo is (if you pay attention to the board when you play it) practically guaranteed to go 2-for-1 except if it slams a generated token, and even then that can be an acceptable outcome.

[Jormengand]

Holy knight.

THRALL/VALEERA SANGUINAAR/ANDUIN WRYNN
Argent Commander/Cutpurse/Arcane Nullifier X-21
Gang up/Spider Tank/Boulderfist Ogre
Razorfen Hunter/Undercity Valiant/Buccaneer
Dire Wolf Alpha/Oasis Snapjaw/Tournament Attendee
Acidic Swamp Ooze/Conceal/Ogre Brute
Tournament Attendee/Amani Berserker/Reckless Rocketeer
Refreshment Vendor/Gadgetzan Jouster/Boulderfist Ogre
Bloodsail Raider/Betrayal/Shado-pan rider
Elven Archer/Gurubashi Berserker/Silent Knight
Bloodsail Corsair/Goblin Sapper/Coliseum Manager

[Lethologica]

I prefer Coliseum Manager.

[Anarion]

Yeah, I'd also say Coliseum manager for rogue. Sapper won't do anything, and corsair is the terrible bloodsail card.

[Surrealistik]

Now that the thread has quieted down and I've got some more time to spend on Arena:

Any other calls on Argent Horserider vs Clockwork Knight?

Argent Horserider (53) vs Clockwork Knight (65)


Cost/Name/Number (nothing if 1; new cards are bolded)

2 Acidic Swamp Ooze x 2 (+1)
2 Argent Lance
2 Echoing Ooze
2 Micro Machine
2 Novice Engineer
3 Light's Champion
3 Warhorse Trainer
4 Blessing of Kings
4 Chillwind Yeti
4 Consecration
4 Dragonling Mechanic
5 Faceless Manipulator
5 Mukla's Champion
6 Grand Crusader
8 Force-Tank MAX

[Lethologica]

I think Clockwork Knight is a little better even as a vanilla 5/5. The dream is Horserider + Blessing of Kings, but you can't count on it.

[Gandariel]

I would actually go Horserider. It's fine early removal in a class that lacks it.

[Surrealistik]

Went with Clockwork Knight ultimately; more answered in the affirmative for that (had some prior respondents), and I've let it hang me up far too long. That said, I totally get the case for the Horserider and was actually leaning that way myself initially.

Rest of the picks were no brainers; here's the deck:

1 Avenge
2 Acidic Swamp Ooze x 2
2 Argent Lance x 2
2 Echoing Ooze
2 Loot Hoarder
2 Mad Bomber
2 Micro Machine
2 Novice Engineer
2 Shielded Minibot
3 Emperor Cobra
3 Light's Champion
3 Raging Worgen
3 Warhorse Trainer
4 Blessing of Kings
4 Chillwind Yeti x 2
4 Consecration x 2
4 Dragonling Mechanic
4 Hammer of Wrath
5 Clockwork Knight
5 Dragon Consort
5 Faceless Manipulator
5 Mukla's Champion
6 Grand Crusader
6 Master Jouster
6 Priestess of Elune
8 Force-Tank MAX

Good curve, mostly efficient bodies, good removal; I'd say I'm pretty satisfied with this. Think it stands a decent chance of hitting 7.

[Jormengand]

No fighting in my coliseum! Wait, hang on...

THRALL/VALEERA SANGUINAAR/ANDUIN WRYNN
Argent Commander/Cutpurse/Arcane Nullifier X-21
Gang up/Spider Tank/Boulderfist Ogre
Razorfen Hunter/Undercity Valiant/Buccaneer
Dire Wolf Alpha/Oasis Snapjaw/Tournament Attendee
Acidic Swamp Ooze/Conceal/Ogre Brute
Tournament Attendee/Amani Berserker/Reckless Rocketeer
Refreshment Vendor/Gadgetzan Jouster/Boulderfist Ogre
Bloodsail Raider/Betrayal/Shado-pan rider
Elven Archer/Gurubashi Berserker/Silent Knight
Bloodsail Corsair/Goblin Sapper/Coliseum Manager
Southsea Deckhand/Worgen Infiltrator/River Crocolisk

[Anarion]

Southsea deckhand is worse than worgen on turn 1, but better than worgen most other turns since Rogue can have a weapon out pretty much whenever. I'd go with that one.

[heronbpv]

Southsea Deckhand/Worgen Infiltrator/River Crocolisk

I'm not sure, but I vote Crocolisk. My only reason is because you don't see to have enough 2-drops yet.

[Lethologica]

I think Worgen is about even with Deckhand; you prefer Worgen in opening hand and when you need to fill curve on a turn, Deckhand when you need to do something right away. I'll vote for Worgen, but consider this mostly a vote against Crocolisk.

[thirsting]

Charging pirate. Never need to worry about aoe, like with worgen, because deckhand'll be long dead before it happens.

[TechnoWarforged]

No fighting in my coliseum! Wait, hang on...

THRALL/VALEERA SANGUINAAR/ANDUIN WRYNN
Argent Commander/Cutpurse/Arcane Nullifier X-21
Gang up/Spider Tank/Boulderfist Ogre
Razorfen Hunter/Undercity Valiant/Buccaneer
Dire Wolf Alpha/Oasis Snapjaw/Tournament Attendee
Acidic Swamp Ooze/Conceal/Ogre Brute
Tournament Attendee/Amani Berserker/Reckless Rocketeer
Refreshment Vendor/Gadgetzan Jouster/Boulderfist Ogre
Bloodsail Raider/Betrayal/Shado-pan rider
Elven Archer/Gurubashi Berserker/Silent Knight
Bloodsail Corsair/Goblin Sapper/Coliseum Manager
Southsea Deckhand/Worgen Infiltrator/River Crocolisk

1 Drop (Buccaneer)
2 Drops (Dire Wolf Alpha/Ooze/Berserker/
3 Drops (Spider Tank/Silent Knight/Manager)
5 Drop (Shado-pan Rider)
6 Drop (Fatty/Commander)

You are on the 11th of 30 pick and already have three 2 drops. Neither Worgen or Croc is wrong. Worgen gives more tempo but Croc is solid control due to the 2/3 body. Given any other class I'll pick the Croc. However Worgen has slight edge with rogue due to combo synergy.

Deeper Analysis:

Deckhand is a card you play after turn 3 when you already have a weapon.
Worgen is a Turn 1 play for tempo
Croc is a turn 2 play, or a turn 1 with coin.

At the late game. croc won't make a difference. Worgen is potential 2 damage as long as it's stealth. Deckhand is instant damage 2 damage as long as you got a weapon. Early game favours worgen. Late game favours Deckhand, but the different is small.

I would pick Deckhand if you got coldblood/Evis in the pick because of combo finisher... that's 6 damage on 2 cards.
I'm not worry about 2 drops right now that early considering you already got three 2 drops and they are all better then croc.

Worgen works better with Shado-pan Rider only because if you play the Worgen combo with rider... the worgen stays in stealth. It's the only combo card you have right now.

[Anarion]

For reference that's 2 votes for deckhand, 2 for worgen, 1 for croc. This is the most exciting pick we've had in weeks. :smalltongue:

[Mando Knight]

I would pick Deckhand if you got coldblood/Evis in the pick because of combo finisher... that's 6 damage on 2 cards.

Or Sharpsword Oil, though it's a more expensive combo.

[Blue Ghost]

I'd probably go Worgen in this case. It's a better early play and requires less setup to be good.

[Jormengand]

Puppy!

THRALL/VALEERA SANGUINAAR/ANDUIN WRYNN
Argent Commander/Cutpurse/Arcane Nullifier X-21
Gang up/Spider Tank/Boulderfist Ogre
Razorfen Hunter/Undercity Valiant/Buccaneer
Dire Wolf Alpha/Oasis Snapjaw/Tournament Attendee
Acidic Swamp Ooze/Conceal/Ogre Brute
Tournament Attendee/Amani Berserker/Reckless Rocketeer
Refreshment Vendor/Gadgetzan Jouster/Boulderfist Ogre
Bloodsail Raider/Betrayal/Shado-pan rider
Elven Archer/Gurubashi Berserker/Silent Knight
Bloodsail Corsair/Goblin Sapper/Coliseum Manager
Southsea Deckhand/Worgen Infiltrator/River Crocolisk
Burgle/Ogre Ninja/Mana Wraith

I would assume we're ninjaing?

[Anarion]

Probably ninja. I don't actually know what the average value of a burgle is though. It's basically Nefarion without the 9/9 dragon, right?

[Jormengand]

10/10 sneakiest ogre EU

THRALL/VALEERA SANGUINAAR/ANDUIN WRYNN
Argent Commander/Cutpurse/Arcane Nullifier X-21
Gang up/Spider Tank/Boulderfist Ogre
Razorfen Hunter/Undercity Valiant/Buccaneer
Dire Wolf Alpha/Oasis Snapjaw/Tournament Attendee
Acidic Swamp Ooze/Conceal/Ogre Brute
Tournament Attendee/Amani Berserker/Reckless Rocketeer
Refreshment Vendor/Gadgetzan Jouster/Boulderfist Ogre
Bloodsail Raider/Betrayal/Shado-pan rider
Elven Archer/Gurubashi Berserker/Silent Knight
Bloodsail Corsair/Goblin Sapper/Coliseum Manager
Southsea Deckhand/Worgen Infiltrator/River Crocolisk
Burgle/Ogre Ninja/Mana Wraith
Ice Rager/Windfury Harpy/Conceal

Ice rager? I can't imagine harpy's better. Conceal is, well, conceal.

[Anarion]

I think harpy, actually. Rager on an empty board where it gets to live is worse than harpy. In any other context, rager trades 1 for 1 at best and dies to tokens or random aoe at worst. Harpy at least requires that your opponent run a full card into it most of the time. Neither card is going to win you games on curve and you won't be wanting to play them on curve if you have any alternative. So I say harpy as the better overall card even though it's still pretty terrible.

[Jormengand]

Ice Rager is 3 cheaper, so I'm not sure that comparing the face they can deal directly is entirely fair, and I don't know that there are any tokens (except Baine Bloodhoof and Hogger's and Illidan's summoned creatures, which don't show up often) which can actually trade into it. Oh, there's that defias thing I guess. Still, not often that you get a token that can trade up into your ice rager.

[Mando Knight]

Yeah, Conceal can be handy if you have a super-valuable target to hide with it, but you're not likely to draft those in Arena anyway.

A 5/2 for 3 is technically the right amount of stat points for a good 3-drop (7 points), but the utility of a 2-health minion is always questionable... but the Ice Rager is probably more likely to get its value than the harpy is. With 2 health, it's probably going to either kill the enemy 2-drop (not what you want, but better than getting pinged by the opponent like Magma Rager) or if it's ignored it'll kill a Yeti.

[Gandariel]

Vote for Ice Rager.

It's a decent card, it generally trades with a 2, 3, or 4- drop depending on board position.
It won't die to hero powers (since only Mage can really do it, 5 damage is a lot for Rogues and Druids) and it will almost certainly cost a card to your opponent.

Also provides a fair amount of threat to the enemy's face.

Harpy is terrible when behind, OK when ahead, good when ahead AND you have buffs.

[Jormengand]

Rage, rage against the dying of the ice.

THRALL/VALEERA SANGUINAAR/ANDUIN WRYNN
Argent Commander/Cutpurse/Arcane Nullifier X-21
Gang up/Spider Tank/Boulderfist Ogre
Razorfen Hunter/Undercity Valiant/Buccaneer
Dire Wolf Alpha/Oasis Snapjaw/Tournament Attendee
Acidic Swamp Ooze/Conceal/Ogre Brute
Tournament Attendee/Amani Berserker/Reckless Rocketeer
Refreshment Vendor/Gadgetzan Jouster/Boulderfist Ogre
Bloodsail Raider/Betrayal/Shado-pan rider
Elven Archer/Gurubashi Berserker/Silent Knight
Bloodsail Corsair/Goblin Sapper/Coliseum Manager
Southsea Deckhand/Worgen Infiltrator/River Crocolisk
Burgle/Ogre Ninja/Mana Wraith
Ice Rager/Windfury Harpy/Conceal
Kodorider/Poisoned Blade/Sabotage

[Mando Knight]

Poisoned Blade is terrible, so that's out. Sabotage is removal, and Kodorider is a potential stampede.

I think Sabotage might be better here.

[GAAD]

KODO.PIK
Decklist:

1:

2:
Ancestral Knowledge
Annoy-o-tron
Flametongue Totem 2
Mad Bomber
Totem Golem
Whirling Zap-o-Matic 3
3:
Arcane Golem
Injured Blademaster
Ironforge Rifleman
Jungle Panther
4:
Fireguard Destroyer
Refreshment Vendor
5:
Doomhammer
Stampeding Kodo
Spiteful Smith
6:
Master Jouster
7+:
North Sea Kraken

Pick 21. Rockbiter Weapon/Blackwing Corrupter/Spiteful Smith#2

[Zevox]

Pick 21. Rockbiter Weapon/Blackwing Corrupter/Spiteful Smith#2
Rockbiter Weapon. Not only is it the best card of the three in quality terms (barring having a ton of Dragons, anyway), but you have three Whirling Zap-o-Matics, a Doomhammer, and a relatively low-curve deck, so it's a potential big finisher on top of just being a solid removal card.

[Mando Knight]

Yeah, getting Rockbiter + Windfury is a good way to push toward lethal, and you have plenty of the latter.

[Lethologica]

Kodorider/Poisoned Blade/Sabotage
Hard to pass up Kodorider, but 'remove anything' is still 'remove anything'.


Pick 21. Rockbiter Weapon/Blackwing Corrupter/Spiteful Smith#2
Rockbiter wins.

[GAAD]

rockbiter=WH666666666666
Decklist:

1:

2:
Ancestral Knowledge
Annoy-o-tron
Flametongue Totem 2
Mad Bomber
Totem Golem
Whirling Zap-o-Matic 3
3:
Arcane Golem
Injured Blademaster
Ironforge Rifleman
Jungle Panther
4:
Fireguard Destroyer
Refreshment Vendor
5:
Doomhammer
Stampeding Kodo
Spiteful Smith
6:
Master Jouster
7+:
North Sea Kraken

Pick 22. Mana Addict/Mana Tide Totem/Lava Burst

[Lethologica]

Hm. Lava Burst and Mana Tide Totem are about equal in raw quality. Lava Burst gives you even more reach, so to commit to your deck path, I'd pick it.

[Jormengand]

KILL! DESTROY!

Oh look, a weapon. Let's buttbuttinate.

Let's give my weapon a nice close shave...

Oh, COME ON!

No, seriously, can I have some good cards please? So that it's actually, say, a choice?

THRALL/VALEERA SANGUINAAR/ANDUIN WRYNN
Argent Commander/Cutpurse/Arcane Nullifier X-21
Gang up/Spider Tank/Boulderfist Ogre
Razorfen Hunter/Undercity Valiant/Buccaneer
Dire Wolf Alpha/Oasis Snapjaw/Tournament Attendee
Acidic Swamp Ooze/Conceal/Ogre Brute
Tournament Attendee/Amani Berserker/Reckless Rocketeer
Refreshment Vendor/Gadgetzan Jouster/Boulderfist Ogre
Bloodsail Raider/Betrayal/Shado-pan rider
Elven Archer/Gurubashi Berserker/Silent Knight
Bloodsail Corsair/Goblin Sapper/Coliseum Manager
Southsea Deckhand/Worgen Infiltrator/River Crocolisk
Burgle/Ogre Ninja/Mana Wraith
Ice Rager/Windfury Harpy/Conceal
Kodorider/Poisoned Blade/Sabotage
Assassin's Blade/Shiv/Dragonhawk Rider
Wisp/Undertaker/Goblin Auto-barber
Wolfrider/Gang Up/Shadowstep
Gnomish Inventor/Gang Up/Sap
Frigid Snobold/Dalaran Mage/Dire Wolf Alpha

Frickin' finally. Take your pick.

[thirsting]

Wolf, especially because you have no damage spells yet. Also you forgot to bold the epic choice.

Lava burst for GAAD, to hopefully clear out obstacles out of the way of your Zap-O-Matics.

[Lethologica]

dwaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhh

[Jormengand]

I'm hoping I'll get into the Dire Wolf Beta.

Oh look, it's the card that isn't a 2/2 for 3 or a bad hunter hero power!

THRALL/VALEERA SANGUINAAR/ANDUIN WRYNN
Argent Commander/Cutpurse/Arcane Nullifier X-21
Gang up/Spider Tank/Boulderfist Ogre
Razorfen Hunter/Undercity Valiant/Buccaneer
Dire Wolf Alpha/Oasis Snapjaw/Tournament Attendee
Acidic Swamp Ooze/Conceal/Ogre Brute
Tournament Attendee/Amani Berserker/Reckless Rocketeer
Refreshment Vendor/Gadgetzan Jouster/Boulderfist Ogre
Bloodsail Raider/Betrayal/Shado-pan rider
Elven Archer/Gurubashi Berserker/Silent Knight
Bloodsail Corsair/Goblin Sapper/Coliseum Manager
Southsea Deckhand/Worgen Infiltrator/River Crocolisk
Burgle/Ogre Ninja/Mana Wraith
Ice Rager/Windfury Harpy/Conceal
Kodorider/Poisoned Blade/Sabotage
Assassin's Blade/Shiv/Dragonhawk Rider
Wisp/Undertaker/Goblin Auto-barber
Wolfrider/Gang Up/Shadowstep
Gnomish Inventor/Gang Up/Sap
Frigid Snobold/Dalaran Mage/Dire Wolf Alpha
Coldlight Oracle/Kezan Mystic/Headcrack
Raging Worgen/Vanish/Acolyte of Pain

[Lethologica]

FWIW curve is:

1 xx
2 xxxxx
3 xxxxx
4 xxx
5 xxx
6 xx

Anyway, Raging Worgen is fine.

[GolemsVoice]

Aye, Raging Worgen is the pick.

[Infernally Clay]

Raging Worgen instead of Acolyte of Pain? Why? At its absolute worst Acolyte is a 1/3 Loot Hoarder but, at its best, it might as well have "Battlecry: Draw three cards" written on it. On the other hand, the Worgen usually dies without triggering its Enrage and you can't trigger it yourself.

Some of these picks are definitely a little weird as well. Why'd you pick Worgen Infiltrator instead of Southsea Deckhand? You're a Rogue. You're pretty much always going to have a weapon and a 2/1 with Charge is way better than a 2/1 with stealth. I'm also not sure on Ice Rager being picked over Windfury Harpy - neither are that great but a 4/5 that can hit twice will kill a lot more and demand more attention than a vanilla 5/2.

I probably would've grabbed Burgle instead of Ogre Ninja, too. Class cards are generally pretty good and the higher you go the more Mages and Paladins you'll face, so the value of Burgle only goes up I think.

[Gandariel]

Raging Worgen instead of Acolyte of Pain? Why? At its absolute worst Acolyte is a 1/3 Loot Hoarder but, at its best, it might as well have "Battlecry: Draw three cards" written on it. On the other hand, the Worgen usually dies without triggering its Enrage and you can't trigger it yourself.

Some of these picks are definitely a little weird as well. Why'd you pick Worgen Infiltrator instead of Southsea Deckhand? You're a Rogue. You're pretty much always going to have a weapon and a 2/1 with Charge is way better than a 2/1 with stealth. I'm also not sure on Ice Rager being picked over Windfury Harpy - neither are that great but a 4/5 that can hit twice will kill a lot more and demand more attention than a vanilla 5/2.

I probably would've grabbed Burgle instead of Ogre Ninja, too. Class cards are generally pretty good and the higher you go the more Mages and Paladins you'll face, so the value of Burgle only goes up I think.

Acolyte does not provide a decent body. He gives you card advantage, but loses out on tempo. If you need more tempo, playing a dude with better stats is usually better. Especially in not-mage, when you almost never get more than one draw off of him.
What happens if you play Acolyte and your opponent plays a big dude? shredder, spider tank, or whatever? You just put yourself behind on board, and that one extra card you drew isn't likely to put you back up.

Worgen Infiltrator over Deckhand.. I'd probably pick Deckhand too, but it's very debatable. The main point is that Infiltrator can be played on turn 1, and thus gives a good tempo advantage.
But then again, i like the Deckhand too.

I'm absolutely in favor of Ice Rager over Harpy.

If you play Harpy and your opponent can trade into it on his turn, you just played Yeti for +2 mana, which is horrible.
Even if you can play it and protect it, without buffs you usually can't even take much advantage of the Windfury. You generally kill two small things (Yay, six mana kill two 3/2s) or kill one and go face with the second attack.
Not impressive. Windfury harpy is a subpar card.

Ice Rager is the definition of a fair 3-drop.
Will always take a card from your opponent
Can trade up to a Yeti (very useful in Arena) or down to a 2-drop.
That's fine. decent. Perfectly acceptable.

Also, Burgle is an OK card, but it's very unreliable and most importantly slow. Ogre ninja is a 6/6 for 5 mana and some minor details. Just more useful and consistent.

Also, Do mages and Paladins have better class cards than the other classes? I didn't know.
For every Fireball and Consecration there is a Mirror Image and Eye for an Eye, you know.

[Zevox]

Raging Worgen instead of Acolyte of Pain? Why? At its absolute worst Acolyte is a 1/3 Loot Hoarder but, at its best, it might as well have "Battlecry: Draw three cards" written on it. On the other hand, the Worgen usually dies without triggering its Enrage and you can't trigger it yourself.
Drawing three cards off Acolyte in arena is a pipe dream. Hell, drawing two cards off Acolyte in arena is fairly rare. And a 1/3 for 3 that cantrips is not especially good for the format. Even in Mage you pretty much don't take Acolyte over even vanilla cards with a decent body, and Raging Worgen has a decent body and a potential upside. And hey, if we're talking about pipe dreams, Raging Worgen's upside at its best just wins you the game outright.


Why'd you pick Worgen Infiltrator instead of Southsea Deckhand? You're a Rogue. You're pretty much always going to have a weapon and a 2/1 with Charge is way better than a 2/1 with stealth.
Because you won't always have a weapon, and needing to spend 2 extra mana giving the Deckhand charge is a bit of an issue. In Rogue the Deckhand goes from bad card to an at least decent one, that's true, but it's still not as good as the Worgen, which is a solid 1-drop you can actually play on turn 1 even against classes with ping hero powers.


I'm also not sure on Ice Rager being picked over Windfury Harpy - neither are that great but a 4/5 that can hit twice will kill a lot more and demand more attention than a vanilla 5/2.
Eh, I'm not sure about that one either, though personally if I have to pick a bad card, I do generally prefer picking the cheaper one. Better to pay less for your sub-par cards than more I figure.


I probably would've grabbed Burgle instead of Ogre Ninja, too. Class cards are generally pretty good and the higher you go the more Mages and Paladins you'll face, so the value of Burgle only goes up I think.
Mages and Paladins have better common class cards than most other classes, but they certainly still have their fair share crap class cards to get. Notably many of their secrets, or things like Ethereal Arcanist with no secret, or Quartermaster in any other class, plus other garbage you see so rarely you may forget they exist like Blessed Champion, Holy Light, or Wee Spellstopper. In addition, as Gandariel said, it's slow. Meanwhile the Ogre Ninja is a big threat with a low cost for the body, a slight upside (stealth), and the downside isn't so bad considering the big body can probably absorb most minions it may accidentally hit and survive.

[Jormengand]

Maybe I'd have taken an acoheavy of pleasure over the worgen, though.

THRALL/VALEERA SANGUINAAR/ANDUIN WRYNN
Argent Commander/Cutpurse/Arcane Nullifier X-21
Gang up/Spider Tank/Boulderfist Ogre
Razorfen Hunter/Undercity Valiant/Buccaneer
Dire Wolf Alpha/Oasis Snapjaw/Tournament Attendee
Acidic Swamp Ooze/Conceal/Ogre Brute
Tournament Attendee/Amani Berserker/Reckless Rocketeer
Refreshment Vendor/Gadgetzan Jouster/Boulderfist Ogre
Bloodsail Raider/Betrayal/Shado-pan rider
Elven Archer/Gurubashi Berserker/Silent Knight
Bloodsail Corsair/Goblin Sapper/Coliseum Manager
Southsea Deckhand/Worgen Infiltrator/River Crocolisk
Burgle/Ogre Ninja/Mana Wraith
Ice Rager/Windfury Harpy/Conceal
Kodorider/Poisoned Blade/Sabotage
Assassin's Blade/Shiv/Dragonhawk Rider
Wisp/Undertaker/Goblin Auto-barber
Wolfrider/Gang Up/Shadowstep
Gnomish Inventor/Gang Up/Sap
Frigid Snobold/Dalaran Mage/Dire Wolf Alpha
Coldlight Oracle/Kezan Mystic/Headcrack
Raging Worgen/Vanish/Acolyte of Pain
Flesheathing Ghoul/Reckless Rocketeer/Dragonhawk Rider

WHY DO YOU DO THIS TO ME?

[thirsting]

Rocketeer is expensive, but it has a chance to knock something big out right away, unlike the other two.

[Zevox]

No, take the 3/3 for 3 over the overpriced not-even-Fireball and the Ghoul.

[Lethologica]

3/3 that draws removal? I'm down for that.

[Jormengand]

Inspire: Pretend you're Eragon.

Let's take some much-needed lategame, and not, say, a 1/8 for 4 or a mildly janky abusive sergeant. *Is captured.*

Oh hey there, dorf! What's it like not being really overcosted?

THRALL/VALEERA SANGUINAAR/ANDUIN WRYNN
Argent Commander/Cutpurse/Arcane Nullifier X-21
Gang up/Spider Tank/Boulderfist Ogre
Razorfen Hunter/Undercity Valiant/Buccaneer
Dire Wolf Alpha/Oasis Snapjaw/Tournament Attendee
Acidic Swamp Ooze/Conceal/Ogre Brute
Tournament Attendee/Amani Berserker/Reckless Rocketeer
Refreshment Vendor/Gadgetzan Jouster/Boulderfist Ogre
Bloodsail Raider/Betrayal/Shado-pan rider
Elven Archer/Gurubashi Berserker/Silent Knight
Bloodsail Corsair/Goblin Sapper/Coliseum Manager
Southsea Deckhand/Worgen Infiltrator/River Crocolisk
Burgle/Ogre Ninja/Mana Wraith
Ice Rager/Windfury Harpy/Conceal
Kodorider/Poisoned Blade/Sabotage
Assassin's Blade/Shiv/Dragonhawk Rider
Wisp/Undertaker/Goblin Auto-barber
Wolfrider/Gang Up/Shadowstep
Gnomish Inventor/Gang Up/Sap
Frigid Snobold/Dalaran Mage/Dire Wolf Alpha
Coldlight Oracle/Kezan Mystic/Headcrack
Raging Worgen/Vanish/Acolyte of Pain
Flesheathing Ghoul/Reckless Rocketeer/Dragonhawk Rider
Tournament Medic/Lance Carrier/Captured Jormungar
Thrallmar Farseer/Scarlet Crusader/Dark Iron Dwarf
Explosive Sheep/Kvaldir Raider/Amani Berserker

Do we enjoy raiding, or a little blood?

[Lethologica]

Curve:
1 xx
2 xxxxx
3 xxxxxxx
4 xxxx
5 xxx
6 xx
7 x

Edge to the Raider, I think.

[Zevox]

That last pick should not have been an auto-pick. Scarlet Crusader is really good, and would definitely be worth considering over Dark Iron Dwarf at times. In this case I'd say the Dwarf was correct because we have so many 3-drops already that even one of the Crusader's quality should probably be passed for good cards at other costs, but still worth noting.

For the current pick, I actually lean Amani. We currently have only four cards we want to play on turns 1 and 2: Worgen Infiltrator, Amani Berserker, Ooze, and Goblin Auto-Barber (and that last you'd often prefer to hold for a later turn). Bucaneer counts sometimes, but only against classes without damaging hero powers. That's a bit short for my tastes. And neutral Floating Watcher isn't that great even in the absence of a curve concern.

[Temotei]

I think the right choice is Amani, as well. Not sure I would pick it because Kvaldir is fun, but I think Amani is the correct choice. Kind of a tough one.

[Anarion]

Big finishers right now are shado-pan, boulderfist, and captured Jormengand Jormungar.

Reasonable early drops are alpha, alpha, ooze, amani, worgen, auto-barber. Alpha's are sub-par and better played later when their buff can affect the board instantly, though going worgen into alpha might kill some 2/3s.

I lean slightly towards the Kvaldir here, but it's really close.

[Lethologica]

Oh yeah, I forgot two of those 2s were DWAs. Definitely prefer the Berserker in that case.

[TechnoWarforged]

Kvaldir Raider is good pick if it's still early in the draft.

You are in the 25# pick and has 6 two drops. I guess that's okay.

You have the Brute, Shado-Pan, Commander, Orge Ninja, the 5/9 Wyrm as big bodies and your only win condition is having big bodies.

The Problem with Raider is that he needs hero power to activate and that sucks if you are a rogue.

Amani Berserker wins out... only because Kvaldir is doesn't have synergy with the rogue. Any other class I'll pick Kvaldir Raider.

[Landis963]

Current Rogue Run, 1-0:


0:Backstab
1:Clockwork Gnome
Elven Archer
Gadgetzan Jouster
Southsea Deckhand
Worgen Infiltrator
2: Blade Flurry
Eviscerate x3
Cutpurse
Ironbeak Owl
3:Argent Horserider
Mind Control Tech
Razorfen Hunter
Shattered Sun Cleric
Silent Knight
4:Dread Corsair
Evil Heckler
Mechanical Yeti x2
Sen'jin Shieldmasta
5: Dark Iron Skulker
Ogre Ninja
Shado-Pan Rider
Stampeding Kodo
Venture Co. Mercenary
6: Drakonid Crusher
Sunwalker
8: Force-tank MAX

[thirsting]

One more vote for Amani Berserker. Already got decent number of big minions, and many of those other 2-drops lose a lot of their full potential if dropped on turn two, or on empty board.


Also also, the name of next thread:
"Hearthstone Arena Drafting IV: Everyone, Ignore the First Post!" :smalltongue:

[Blue Ghost]

I prefer having more good turn 2 plays, and the rogue hero power isn't one you always want to use. Amani Berserker.

[Jormengand]

Is time for a little enraging.

This is my pick, scrub!

Inspire: Pretend you're Brom.

THRALL/VALEERA SANGUINAAR/ANDUIN WRYNN
Argent Commander/Cutpurse/Arcane Nullifier X-21
Gang up/Spider Tank/Boulderfist Ogre
Razorfen Hunter/Undercity Valiant/Buccaneer
Dire Wolf Alpha/Oasis Snapjaw/Tournament Attendee
Acidic Swamp Ooze/Conceal/Ogre Brute
Tournament Attendee/Amani Berserker/Reckless Rocketeer
Refreshment Vendor/Gadgetzan Jouster/Boulderfist Ogre
Bloodsail Raider/Betrayal/Shado-pan rider
Elven Archer/Gurubashi Berserker/Silent Knight
Bloodsail Corsair/Goblin Sapper/Coliseum Manager
Southsea Deckhand/Worgen Infiltrator/River Crocolisk
Burgle/Ogre Ninja/Mana Wraith
Ice Rager/Windfury Harpy/Conceal
Kodorider/Poisoned Blade/Sabotage
Assassin's Blade/Shiv/Dragonhawk Rider
Wisp/Undertaker/Goblin Auto-barber
Wolfrider/Gang Up/Shadowstep
Gnomish Inventor/Gang Up/Sap
Frigid Snobold/Dalaran Mage/Dire Wolf Alpha
Coldlight Oracle/Kezan Mystic/Headcrack
Raging Worgen/Vanish/Acolyte of Pain
Flesheathing Ghoul/Reckless Rocketeer/Dragonhawk Rider
Tournament Medic/Lance Carrier/Captured Jormungar
Thrallmar Farseer/Scarlet Crusader/Dark Iron Dwarf
Explosive Sheep/Kvaldir Raider/Amani Berserker
Defias Ringleader/Vanish/Gnomeregan Infantry
Stoneskin Gargoyle/Gang Up/Dragonhawk Rider
Frostwolf Grunt/Spectral Knight/Acidic Swamp Ooze

Oh, look, an actual pick!

[Lethologica]

Curve:
1 xx
2 xxxxxxx
3 xxxxxxxx
4 xxxx
5 xxx
6 xx
7 x

I think it's time for Spectral Knight.

[Anarion]

In the spirit of ignoring the first post, I'm in the middle of a draft, but I had to stop here and ask what I should take for this pick.

Currently drafting mage.
In curve order
Gadzetzan Jouster
Harvest Golem
Shattered Sun Cleric
Water Elementalx2
Dragon's Breath
Blackwing Corruptor
Blizzard
North Sea Kraken

Kel'Thuzad/Justicar Trueheart/Ragnaros

[Lethologica]

Kel'Thuzad's a little more situational, but Ragnaros is a little less reliable. I don't think you can go wrong unless you pick Justicar.

[Mando Knight]

Wow, that's quite the pick. I think Justiciar is obviously the weakest of the three in Mage, and even in general: a 6/3 and +1 damage on your Hero Power the rest of the game just isn't as game-ending as KT or Ragnaros are, and I think most tier lists will put those two as being pretty close together (the raw scores for the HearthArena tier list puts KT and Rag at 90 and 92, respectively, which at that high of a score is basically "pick the one that you like better"), and there aren't any major minions that would swing it one way or another (i.e. a major Deathrattle or Taunt minion for massive KT value, though the Golem is OK with KT).

Either one can help define a win condition for the deck, but I personally feel like I'd be better off picking Kel'Thuzad in most Arena decks.

[Jormengand]

Woo! Woo! I can't be targeted by spells or hero powers! Woo! Woo! So spooooky!

THRALL/VALEERA SANGUINAAR/ANDUIN WRYNN
Argent Commander/Cutpurse/Arcane Nullifier X-21
Gang up/Spider Tank/Boulderfist Ogre
Razorfen Hunter/Undercity Valiant/Buccaneer
Dire Wolf Alpha/Oasis Snapjaw/Tournament Attendee
Acidic Swamp Ooze/Conceal/Ogre Brute
Tournament Attendee/Amani Berserker/Reckless Rocketeer
Refreshment Vendor/Gadgetzan Jouster/Boulderfist Ogre
Bloodsail Raider/Betrayal/Shado-pan rider
Elven Archer/Gurubashi Berserker/Silent Knight
Bloodsail Corsair/Goblin Sapper/Coliseum Manager
Southsea Deckhand/Worgen Infiltrator/River Crocolisk
Burgle/Ogre Ninja/Mana Wraith
Ice Rager/Windfury Harpy/Conceal
Kodorider/Poisoned Blade/Sabotage
Assassin's Blade/Shiv/Dragonhawk Rider
Wisp/Undertaker/Goblin Auto-barber
Wolfrider/Gang Up/Shadowstep
Gnomish Inventor/Gang Up/Sap
Frigid Snobold/Dalaran Mage/Dire Wolf Alpha
Coldlight Oracle/Kezan Mystic/Headcrack
Raging Worgen/Vanish/Acolyte of Pain
Flesheathing Ghoul/Reckless Rocketeer/Dragonhawk Rider
Tournament Medic/Lance Carrier/Captured Jormungar
Thrallmar Farseer/Scarlet Crusader/Dark Iron Dwarf
Explosive Sheep/Kvaldir Raider/Amani Berserker
Defias Ringleader/Vanish/Gnomeregan Infantry
Stoneskin Gargoyle/Gang Up/Dragonhawk Rider
Frostwolf Grunt/Spectral Knight/Acidic Swamp Ooze
Imp Master/Sunwalker/Shady Dealer

[TechnoWarforged]

Woo! Woo! I can't be targeted by spells or hero powers! Woo! Woo! So spooooky!

Imp Master/Sunwalker/Shady Dealer

No brainer pick here. Holy Cow!

[Jormengand]

I'm surprised that a divine shield could protect you from walking on the sun.

THRALL/VALEERA SANGUINAAR/ANDUIN WRYNN
Argent Commander/Cutpurse/Arcane Nullifier X-21
Gang up/Spider Tank/Boulderfist Ogre
Razorfen Hunter/Undercity Valiant/Buccaneer
Dire Wolf Alpha/Oasis Snapjaw/Tournament Attendee
Acidic Swamp Ooze/Conceal/Ogre Brute
Tournament Attendee/Amani Berserker/Reckless Rocketeer
Refreshment Vendor/Gadgetzan Jouster/Boulderfist Ogre
Bloodsail Raider/Betrayal/Shado-pan rider
Elven Archer/Gurubashi Berserker/Silent Knight
Bloodsail Corsair/Goblin Sapper/Coliseum Manager
Southsea Deckhand/Worgen Infiltrator/River Crocolisk
Burgle/Ogre Ninja/Mana Wraith
Ice Rager/Windfury Harpy/Conceal
Kodorider/Poisoned Blade/Sabotage
Assassin's Blade/Shiv/Dragonhawk Rider
Wisp/Undertaker/Goblin Auto-barber
Wolfrider/Gang Up/Shadowstep
Gnomish Inventor/Gang Up/Sap
Frigid Snobold/Dalaran Mage/Dire Wolf Alpha
Coldlight Oracle/Kezan Mystic/Headcrack
Raging Worgen/Vanish/Acolyte of Pain
Flesheathing Ghoul/Reckless Rocketeer/Dragonhawk Rider
Tournament Medic/Lance Carrier/Captured Jormungar
Thrallmar Farseer/Scarlet Crusader/Dark Iron Dwarf
Explosive Sheep/Kvaldir Raider/Amani Berserker
Defias Ringleader/Vanish/Gnomeregan Infantry
Stoneskin Gargoyle/Gang Up/Dragonhawk Rider
Frostwolf Grunt/Spectral Knight/Acidic Swamp Ooze
Imp Master/Sunwalker/Shady Dealer
Stampeding Kodo/Arcane Nullifier X-21/Lightwarden

[Gandariel]

Pick kodo!

Also,



In the spirit of ignoring the first post, I'm in the middle of a draft, but I had to stop here and ask what I should take for this pick.

Currently drafting mage.
In curve order
Gadzetzan Jouster
Harvest Golem
Shattered Sun Cleric
Water Elementalx2
Dragon's Breath
Blackwing Corruptor
Blizzard
North Sea Kraken

Kel'Thuzad/Justicar Trueheart/Ragnaros

Short Answer: Pick KT.

Long Answer:

Rag is more suited as a finisher, especially if you have other big stuff to draw removal.
Even if he is answered he'll shoot once immediately, which is really strong.
It is also a bit unreliable if you don't have board control and your opponent can flood with crap.
If you're ahead it's a powerful wincon, if you're behind it's... very variable. It *can* snipe off that one minion and pull you back up, it *can* lethal your opponent through taunts, it *can* trade for 3 minions if your opponent has to clear it. But it can also hit a random 1/1 or burn the opponent from 30 to 22 and not really do anything. Important thing: Rag can just be slammed on an empty board and provide a strong pressure.

KT is not easy to set up, but if you set it up properly it instantly wins you the game.
Have 2-3 creatures on board, ready to trade into theirs? You win the game.
Even if they answer him next turn, you've already gotten ultravalue and it's really hard to lose from now on.

Even if you just trade one dude, maybe a 4/4, it's still a pretty fine card.
Of course, you can't drop it on an empty board, and if you're behind it does little to help you.

Overall, KT wins out because it's not that hard to set up an insta-win with him.

[Jormengand]

All allies atta... wait, wrong game.

THRALL/VALEERA SANGUINAAR/ANDUIN WRYNN
Argent Commander/Cutpurse/Arcane Nullifier X-21
Gang up/Spider Tank/Boulderfist Ogre
Razorfen Hunter/Undercity Valiant/Buccaneer
Dire Wolf Alpha/Oasis Snapjaw/Tournament Attendee
Acidic Swamp Ooze/Conceal/Ogre Brute
Tournament Attendee/Amani Berserker/Reckless Rocketeer
Refreshment Vendor/Gadgetzan Jouster/Boulderfist Ogre
Bloodsail Raider/Betrayal/Shado-pan rider
Elven Archer/Gurubashi Berserker/Silent Knight
Bloodsail Corsair/Goblin Sapper/Coliseum Manager
Southsea Deckhand/Worgen Infiltrator/River Crocolisk
Burgle/Ogre Ninja/Mana Wraith
Ice Rager/Windfury Harpy/Conceal
Kodorider/Poisoned Blade/Sabotage
Assassin's Blade/Shiv/Dragonhawk Rider
Wisp/Undertaker/Goblin Auto-barber
Wolfrider/Gang Up/Shadowstep
Gnomish Inventor/Gang Up/Sap
Frigid Snobold/Dalaran Mage/Dire Wolf Alpha
Coldlight Oracle/Kezan Mystic/Headcrack
Raging Worgen/Vanish/Acolyte of Pain
Flesheathing Ghoul/Reckless Rocketeer/Dragonhawk Rider
Tournament Medic/Lance Carrier/Captured Jormungar
Thrallmar Farseer/Scarlet Crusader/Dark Iron Dwarf
Explosive Sheep/Kvaldir Raider/Amani Berserker
Defias Ringleader/Vanish/Gnomeregan Infantry
Stoneskin Gargoyle/Gang Up/Dragonhawk Rider
Frostwolf Grunt/Spectral Knight/Acidic Swamp Ooze
Imp Master/Sunwalker/Shady Dealer
Stampeding Kodo/Arcane Nullifier X-21/Lightwarden

Now taking bets!

[GolemsVoice]

My cristall ball says: 6 wins! Go out and conquer!

[The_Jackal]

Now taking bets!

I believe in you. 12 wins.

[TechnoWarforged]

Aren't we aiming to be the 12.5%? like 0-3?

I think if you played everything right (this is a tempo rogue deck) you'll get at least 9 wins.

[Lethologica]

As the resident pessimist...4 wins.

[Anarion]

I ended up taking KT. The rest of the draft was pretty poor though. Subpar commons and a lot of picks with nothing cheaper than 5 out of all 3 choices. Ended up going 2-3, primarily as a result of not having early plays. I only got to play KT once, alas.

Jorm, I think, will get 7 wins. Guard your life total carefully, you need the game to progress without getting into burst death range.

[heronbpv]

8 wins for the captured-playgrounder.

[Jormengand]

Game 1: MALFURION STORMRAGE

Classic coin-wildgrowth opener there, and uses his turn 3 for a harvest golem, who dies to amani, DWA and worgen tag-team. A steady stream of 1/1s from a creeper and Tuskerr, and then he Mogor's Champions, which are ironically killed by ogre ninja. A few trades later, I'm sitting on a 3/3 kodo 3/2 auto-barber when wrath and troggzor happen, forcing a dorf and hero power to help the barber trade. He finally pulls a north sea kraken out of his butt for 1 under lethal, and I kill myself fighting it rather than surrender.

Game 2: JAINA PROUDMOORE

Resist temptation to coin defias due to presence of shado-pan in hand and the fact the bandit would die anyway; worgen into it on turn 3. Shado-pan lays his scene on T4, and is instantly flamelanced. Of course he was. Enemy then proceeds to counter everything I could possibly wish to play for the rest of the freaking game. Sabotage misses the LotA and hits ironforge rifleman, enemy has bloody coldarra drake, muklachamp, the works. I get steamrolled.

Game 3: JAINA PROUDMOORE.

Go the hell away, Jaina. Enemy spellslinger gives deadly shot, and I murder the smug bastard with a dire wolf rider. Boneguard dies to dorfed DWA. Azure drake? You'd better believe that's a deadly shot. So it continues. Suddenly she turns freezemage on me, and then the flamestrike happens. I suppose it was my fault for not having realised by now that she would have drafted the best cards in the OH MY GOD IS THAT ANOTHER WATER ELEMENTAL? Spellbreaker on the sunwalker, what a surprise, perfect counters to everything I do, must be Wednesday, what else is new? Drakonid crusher, how could she not? Perfectly landed goblin blastmage, par for the course. Screw this. Screw every mage with a perfect draft right now. Take your 30 dust and a TGT pack and shove it. Mate, I got a better ranked pack than that.

Honestly, I think that Tiny Knight of Evil, Master Jouster, ***Grand Crusader***, Dragonhawk Rider, Evil Heckler is arena's way of telling me how sorry it is. You'd better be.

[Lethologica]

Whoa. That actually happened.

So, technically I'm next, but Techno's timing is impeccable. :smallamused: So he can take the spot if he wants it. (Or maybe we'll both go, I bet one of us will finish before GAAD does. :smalltongue:)

[GAAD]

Speaking of my molasses drafting (sorry)
I lava this card
Decklist:

1:

2:
Ancestral Knowledge
Annoy-o-tron
Flametongue Totem 2
Mad Bomber
Totem Golem
Whirling Zap-o-Matic 3
3:
Arcane Golem
Injured Blademaster
Ironforge Rifleman
Jungle Panther
Lava Burst
4:
Fireguard Destroyer
Refreshment Vendor
5:
Doomhammer
Stampeding Kodo
Spiteful Smith
6:
Master Jouster
7+:
North Sea Kraken

Pick 23. Fire Elemental/Unbound Elemental/Forked Lightning

[Gandariel]

I see a fire Elemental and two non-fire elementals.

[TechnoWarforged]

Whoa. That actually happened.

So, technically I'm next, but Techno's timing is impeccable. :smallamused: So he can take the spot if he wants it. (Or maybe we'll both go, I bet one of us will finish before GAAD does. :smalltongue:)

No. You can have next Lethologica. You can only go up from here! :) Reclaim the honour of the GITP Forum!

I'm kinda surprised that draft actually went 0-3. Then again Jormengand could have just ran into three 12 wins decks. I mean... coin wild growth is pretty sick in arena... it saved me from going 2-3 yesterday! In game 2: I would have coin, Our town scrub/Yeah beat it on Turn 1. Sure you 2/1 will get pinged but each ping means the mage isn't playing a card and you are playing Tempo Rogue. Shado-pan is a greed play and could also win you the game.. I guess the Flamelance is unfortunate :(



P.S. I wonder if we could purposely screw some playgrounders on a draft and see how far he'll go ( Shredder/Yeti/wisp?, Ofcourse Wisp for the zero cost value! )


I also might be a bit late on the KT vs Rag scenario... If it's late in the draft and you have a tempo deck... I'll pick KT because KT is a win more card and definitely a win condition if you got a board. Just play KT and trade everything in and it'll all come back at the end of the turn. In an empty board KT will be just very sad. However it is the 9th pick and Rag... while random... it's 8 random damage guarantee... and and turn the game around via YOLO Rag! I would have picked Rag instead.


GAAD: Agree with Gandariel. it's Fire Elemental or go home.

[Lethologica]

Pick 23. Fire Elemental/Unbound Elemental/Forked Lightning
One of these cards is not like the others, one of these cards just doesn't belong~


No. You can have next Lethologica. You can only go up from here! :) Reclaim the honour of the GITP Forum!
Alrighty then, I'll have first pick up by t'morrow mornin'.

[Yana]

I seek the advice of the lunatics who run the asylum!

Valeera/Thrall/Jaina

[Lethologica]

Mage is canonically 'best' and we have a Shaman ongoing and just finished a Rogue, so that's my vote.

[Yana]

Valeera/Thrall/Jaina

1: Argent Commander/Sunfury Protector/Secretkeeper

[Lethologica]

Sunfury is on-curve with minor benefits, Secretkeeper sucks outside a really weird draft. Argent Commander is reach, removal, and often a 2-for-1. Clear winner.

[Fleeing Coward]

I like Techno's idea and I volunteer to be the guinea pig on my Europe account.

Pick the worst card draft:
Going Warlock/Mage/Paladin because the other 2 classes are good in arena :smalltongue:

Arcane Golem/Jeeves/Ravenholdt Assassin

[Lethologica]

Jeeves loses, and therefore wins.

[Zevox]

Just because you're Warlock I'd say Jeeves. In any other class I think I'd be inclined say Arcane Golem is worse, since when Jeeves gets to use his effect he can be great. But Warlock already has tap, which makes Jeeves worse.

[Fleeing Coward]

Pick the worst card draft

Warlock/Mage/Paladin
Arcane Golem/Jeeves/Ravenholdt Assassin
Clockwork Knight/Dancing Sword/Dread Corsair

Another easy pick I think.

[Lethologica]

Dread Corsair is overcosted with no hope of providing return on investment.

(I think Arcane Golem can be great off-curve. It's only early game that he's terrible.)

[Fleeing Coward]

Pick the worst card draft

Warlock/Mage/Paladin
Arcane Golem/Jeeves/Ravenholdt Assassin
Clockwork Knight/Dancing Sword/Dread Corsair
Core Hound/Loot Hoarder/Ironfur Grizzly

I think a certain beast is going to be happy he's finally going to see some play (If we last long enough to play him :smalltongue:)

[Yana]

Valeera/Thrall/Jaina

1: Argent Commander/Sunfury Protectory/Secretkeeper
2: Mana Wyrm/Frigid Snobold/Ogre Magi

0
0
0
0
0
0
1
0

Gotta be the Wyrm, right?

[Lethologica]

Here, doggy, doggy...

And yes, Wyrm for the Mage.

[GAAD]

Ah Set Firrrrrrre to the Raaaaaaaaaaain!
Decklist:

1:

2:
Ancestral Knowledge
Annoy-o-tron
Flametongue Totem 2
Mad Bomber
Totem Golem
Whirling Zap-o-Matic 3
3:
Arcane Golem
Injured Blademaster
Ironforge Rifleman
Jungle Panther
Lava Burst
4:
Fireguard Destroyer
Refreshment Vendor
5:
Doomhammer
Stampeding Kodo
Spiteful Smith
6:
Fire Elemental
Master Jouster
7+:
North Sea Kraken

Pick 24. Windspeaker/Argent Squire/Amani Berserker

[Fleeing Coward]

Wyrm for Mage
Berserker for Shaman

Pick the worst card draft

Warlock/Mage/Paladin
Arcane Golem/Jeeves/Ravenholdt Assassin
Clockwork Knight/Dancing Sword/Dread Corsair
Core Hound/Loot Hoarder/Ironfur Grizzly
Flame Imp/Shieldbearer/Flame Juggler
Captured Jormungar/Clockwork Knight/Jungle Panther


Skipped easy Shieldbearer pick. Now for a choice between 3 reasonable cards.

[Zevox]

Pick the worst card draft

Warlock/Mage/Paladin
Arcane Golem/Jeeves/Ravenholdt Assassin
Clockwork Knight/Dancing Sword/Dread Corsair
Core Hound/Loot Hoarder/Ironfur Grizzly
Flame Imp/Shieldbearer/Flame Juggler
Captured Jormungar/Clockwork Knight/Jungle Panther


Skipped easy Shieldbearer pick. Now for a choice between 3 reasonable cards.
I think Clockwork Knight. The effect isn't likely to go off, so it's a vanilla 5/5 for 5, which strikes me as a bit worse than the other two.

[Yana]

Valeera/Thrall/Jaina

1: Argent Commander/Sunfury Protectory/Secretkeeper
2: Mana Wyrm/Frigid Snobold/Ogre Magi
3: Murloc Tidehunter/Nightblade/Dragonkin Sorcerer

0
1
0
0
0
0
1
0

I know the Nightblade is bad and Tidehunter isn't much better, but mage doesn't have many spells that target its own minions, right?

[Zevox]

I know the Nightblade is bad and Tidehunter isn't much better, but mage doesn't have many spells that target its own minions, right?
I'm not completely sure I'd say Tidehunter is better than Nightblade at all, actually, but that's kind of irrelevant to this easy pick. Dragonkin Sorcerer's effect is a non-issue: it's a 3/5 for 4, which is perfectly fine and far and away better than the garbage it's up against here.

[Lethologica]

Amani for Shaman. Eat your 2-drops, they'll make you strong.

Jormungar is the best card in a vacuum, but I have to wonder if optimizing for curve wonkiness will actually do more than just picking the slightly worse card. Eh, I'll go with Clockwork Knight anyway.

Dragonkin Sorcerer for Mage. 3/5 for 4 isn't amazing, but not bad, either. Tidehunter is a ping magnet. Nightblade is, perhaps, even worse.

[Yana]

Valeera/Thrall/Jaina

1: Argent Commander/Sunfury Protectory/Secretkeeper
2: Mana Wyrm/Frigid Snobold/Ogre Magi
3: Murloc Tidehunter/Nightblade/Dragonkin Sorcerer
4: Mirror Image/Piloted Shredder/Priestess of Elune

0 -0
1-1
2-0
3-0
4-1
5-0
6-1
7+-0

Elune is obviously out. I know the shredder is sticky, but the Mirror Image is good a delaying and it also helps pad my wyrm in the early game. I lean towards the image just because knowing my luck, a doomsayer will jump out of the Shredder.

[Lethologica]

Piloted Shredder is the best non-class common, period. Pick it. Card synergy is almost irrelevant, and corner-case bad luck is completely irrelevant. Mirror Image is a mediocre card, and you wouldn't pick it over Shredder even if you had three Wyrms.

[TechnoWarforged]

4: Mirror Image/Piloted Shredder/Priestess of Elune



Shredder! It's so early so you have to think in term of value



Pick the worst card draft



OMG that's such a bad idea and I didn't suggest you dump 150 Gold down the drain!

However I also went 0-3 with rogue today... and my pack has Cabal Shadow Priest and two uncommon! I'm not sure if getting 0-3 means you'll get better pack.

[Yana]

Valeera/Thrall/Jaina

1: Argent Commander/Sunfury Protectory/Secretkeeper
2: Mana Wyrm/Frigid Snobold/Ogre Magi
3: Murloc Tidehunter/Nightblade/Dragonkin Sorcerer
4: Mirror Image/Piloted Shredder/Priestess of Elune
5: Bloodfen Raptor/Worgen Infiltrator/Reckless Rocketeer

0 -0
1-1
2-0
3-0
4-2
5-0
6-1
7+-0

Rocketeer is out since I have better removal options. Worgen is ping-bait once it decloaks and any aoe will end it. That leaves the Raptor?

[Zevox]

Elune is obviously out. I know the shredder is sticky, but the Mirror Image is good a delaying and it also helps pad my wyrm in the early game. I lean towards the image just because knowing my luck, a doomsayer will jump out of the Shredder.
Oh no, not even a consideration. Shredder is the best neutral common in the game. There are maybe three Mage commons I'd consider taking over Shredder: Flamestrike, Fireball, and Water Elemental. And even the latter two are iffy.

Mirror Image is a bad card barring niche cases. Zero attack means it goes 0-for-1 every time, acting as nothing but a minor speed bump. You need to get pretty lucky to happen to be in a situation where it's worth a card, and incredibly lucky for it to be near as valuable as Shredder is most of the time.


Rocketeer is out since I have better removal options. Worgen is ping-bait once it decloaks and any aoe will end it. That leaves the Raptor?
Worgen slightly edges out the Raptor. You simply don't attack with it unless you're trading or up against a class that doesn't have a 1-damage hero power. That stealth makes it the second best neutral 1-drop in the game (after Chow, of course), because it can wait and be used when it has a favorable trade, and if played on 1 shuts down opponents trying to play a 3/2 on 2.

[Lethologica]

You don't need to worry about Infiltrator's second attack--he has one health! But he's invulnerable to targeted removal, so he's very likely to trade up. And having a good turn 1 play is super good for tempo. Raptor is decent, but Infiltrator is the pick.

[Fleeing Coward]

I'd take the infiltrator over Raptor.



OMG that's such a bad idea and I didn't suggest you dump 150 Gold down the drain!

However I also went 0-3 with rogue today... and my pack has Cabal Shadow Priest and two uncommon! I'm not sure if getting 0-3 means you'll get better pack.

I have over 3k saved up on all 3 servers so 150 gold for an experiment is no big deal :smallbiggrin:
Only chose Europe cause I got runs going on my Asia and NA accounts atm.

Pick the worst card draft

Warlock/Mage/Paladin
Arcane Golem/Jeeves/Ravenholdt Assassin
Clockwork Knight/Dancing Sword/Dread Corsair
Core Hound/Loot Hoarder/Ironfur Grizzly
Flame Imp/Shieldbearer/Flame Juggler
Captured Jormungar/Clockwork Knight/Jungle Panther
Silverback Patriarch/Darkbomb/Ironforge Rifleman

Another easy pick I think.

[Yana]

Valeera/Thrall/Jaina
1: Argent Commander/Sunfury Protectory/Secretkeeper
2: Mana Wyrm/Frigid Snobold/Ogre Magi
3: Murloc Tidehunter/Nightblade/Dragonkin Sorcerer
4: Mirror Image/Piloted Shredder/Priestess of Elune
5: Bloodfen Raptor/Worgen Infiltrator/Reckless Rocketeer
6: Injured Kvaldir/Flamewalker/Arcane Nullifier X-23

0 -0
1-2
2-0
3-0
4-2
5-0
6-1
7+-0

Kvaldir is essentially the same as Worgen without stealth which makes him useless. Flamewalker'd be great if I have spells, but I don't yet. The Nullifier has good health and can't be nuked or polymorphed, but likely won't trade well due to low damage. Probably between the Flamewalker and the robut.

[Zevox]

Silverback Patriarch/Darkbomb/Ironforge Rifleman

Another easy pick I think.
A monkey!


Kvaldir is essentially the same as Worgen without stealth which makes him useless. Flamewalker'd be great if I have spells, but I don't yet. The Nullifier has good health and can't be nuked or polymorphed, but likely won't trade well due to low damage. Probably between the Flamewalker and the robut.
In that it's the Flamewaker. The Nullifier's sub-par attack stat for its cost isn't worth the anti-spell effect. Flamewaker is a 2/4 for 3 at worst, which is decent enough, even if not preferred, and it becomes good if you get to use its effect. Easy pick.

[Mando Knight]

Serve the Firelord. Wake the flames.

[Yana]

Valeera/Thrall/Jaina

1: Argent Commander/Sunfury Protectory/Secretkeeper
2: Mana Wyrm/Frigid Snobold/Ogre Magi
3: Murloc Tidehunter/Nightblade/Dragonkin Sorcerer
4: Mirror Image/Piloted Shredder/Priestess of Elune
5: Bloodfen Raptor/Worgen Infiltrator/Reckless Rocketeer
6: Injured Kvaldir/Flamewaker/Arcane Nullifier X-23
7: Cone of Cold/Kvaldir Raider/Water Elemental

0 -0
1-2
2-0
3-1
4-2
5-0
6-1
7+-0

Weak Aoe is weak and is of no consequence, Kvaldir is a minion that obviously benefits from being on the board for a few turns. Sadly, I don't know enough about this deck yet to insure he'll stay on long enough. Water Elemental is... the mage minion. Seems like an easy choice, but I could be mistaken.

[GAAD]

I guess it's time for a little blood?
Decklist:

1:

2:
Amani Berserker
Ancestral Knowledge
Annoy-o-tron
Flametongue Totem 2
Mad Bomber
Totem Golem
Whirling Zap-o-Matic 3
3:
Arcane Golem
Injured Blademaster
Ironforge Rifleman
Jungle Panther
Lava Burst
4:
Fireguard Destroyer
Refreshment Vendor
5:
Doomhammer
Stampeding Kodo
Spiteful Smith
6:
Fire Elemental
Master Jouster
7+:
North Sea Kraken

Pick 25. Mechwarper/Abusive Sergeant/Drakonid Crusher

[Lethologica]

Water Elemental, Drakonid Crusher, Silverback Patriarch, do yo' thang.

[Zevox]

Weak Aoe is weak and is of no consequence, Kvaldir is a minion that obviously benefits from being on the board for a few turns. Sadly, I don't know enough about this deck yet to insure he'll stay on long enough. Water Elemental is... the mage minion. Seems like an easy choice, but I could be mistaken.
Yep, easy Water Elemental. Much like Shredder, there's not much you should consider over it unless you're late in the draft and have serious curve issues.

[Yana]

Valeera/Thrall/Jaina

1: Argent Commander/Sunfury Protectory/Secretkeeper
2: Mana Wyrm/Frigid Snobold/Ogre Magi
3: Murloc Tidehunter/Nightblade/Dragonkin Sorcerer
4: Mirror Image/Piloted Shredder/Priestess of Elune
5: Bloodfen Raptor/Worgen Infiltrator/Reckless Rocketeer
6: Injured Kvaldir/Flamewaker/Arcane Nullifier X-23
7: Cone of Cold/Kvaldir Raider/Water Elemental
8: Wolfrider/Nightblade/Silver Hand Knight

0 -0
1-2
2-0
3-1
4-3
5-0
6-1
7+-0

Two Nightblades in the same draft, I think the arena is trying to tell me something. Again with the charge creatures acting as removal. With the Silver Hand as a 6/6 for 5, I'd call it the best choice, but I'm starting to worry a bit about my mana curve.

[Zevox]

Two Nightblades in the same draft, I think the arena is trying to tell me something. Again with the charge creatures acting as removal. With the Silver Hand as a 6/6 for 5, I'd call it the best choice, but I'm starting to worry a bit about my mana curve.
Not only is it much too early to worry about your mana curve, there's nothing wrong with it at this point anyway. Silver Hand Knight is indeed the pick. It's not really a 6/6 for 5, but it's close enough that it's a good arena card nonetheless.

[Fleeing Coward]

Pick the worst card draft

Warlock/Mage/Paladin
Arcane Golem/Jeeves/Ravenholdt Assassin
Clockwork Knight/Dancing Sword/Dread Corsair
Core Hound/Loot Hoarder/Ironfur Grizzly
Flame Imp/Shieldbearer/Flame Juggler
Captured Jormungar/Clockwork Knight/Jungle Panther
Silverback Patriarch/Darkbomb/Ironforge Rifleman
Kvaldir Raider/Priestess of Elune/Acidic Swamp Ooze

Should probably skip this one too, another no brainer.

[Zevox]

Pick the worst card draft

Warlock/Mage/Paladin
Arcane Golem/Jeeves/Ravenholdt Assassin
Clockwork Knight/Dancing Sword/Dread Corsair
Core Hound/Loot Hoarder/Ironfur Grizzly
Flame Imp/Shieldbearer/Flame Juggler
Captured Jormungar/Clockwork Knight/Jungle Panther
Silverback Patriarch/Darkbomb/Ironforge Rifleman
Kvaldir Raider/Priestess of Elune/Acidic Swamp Ooze

Should probably skip this one too, another no brainer.
I was going to say her play dialogue, but honestly I've seen Priestess of Elune so rarely that I can't remember what it is.

[Fleeing Coward]

I am the blade of the Goddess. I see it every now and then.

Pick the worst card draft

Warlock/Mage/Paladin
Arcane Golem/Jeeves/Ravenholdt Assassin
Clockwork Knight/Dancing Sword/Dread Corsair
Core Hound/Loot Hoarder/Ironfur Grizzly
Flame Imp/Shieldbearer/Flame Juggler
Captured Jormungar/Clockwork Knight/Jungle Panther
Silverback Patriarch/Darkbomb/Ironforge Rifleman
Kvaldir Raider/Priestess of Elune/Acidic Swamp Ooze
Fel Reaver/Big Game Hunter/Demonheart

Yay, I get a 5 mana Giant or a 5 mana removal spell. Win-win situation :smallbiggrin:

[GAAD]

For Blackwing!
Decklist:

1:

2:
Amani Berserker
Ancestral Knowledge
Annoy-o-tron
Flametongue Totem 2
Mad Bomber
Totem Golem
Whirling Zap-o-Matic 3
3:
Arcane Golem
Injured Blademaster
Ironforge Rifleman
Jungle Panther
Lava Burst
4:
Fireguard Destroyer
Refreshment Vendor
5:
Doomhammer
Stampeding Kodo
Spiteful Smith
6:
Fire Elemental
Master Jouster
7+:
North Sea Kraken

Pick 26. Stormforged Axe/Fen Creeper/Windspeaker

[Zevox]

Fel Reaver/Big Game Hunter/Demonheart

Yay, I get a 5 mana Giant or a 5 mana removal spell. Win-win situation :smallbiggrin:
Overpriced removal is worse than underpriced big beatstick. Demonheart is my vote.

[Mando Knight]

Easy Axe for GAAD. Windspeaker is terrible, Fen Creeper is only OK-ish, but the Axe is a weapon, and one that can remove a decent amount of stuff before it breaks.

[TechnoWarforged]

Fel Reaver/Big Game Hunter/Demonheart

I guess another vote for Demonheart....
(PS I don't have the heart of a demon... really!)



Pick 25. Mechwarper/Abusive Sergeant/Drakonid Crusher
Pick 26. Stormforged Axe/Fen Creeper/Windspeaker

I was going to say that Mechwarper is a valid pick. Crusher is pure value and if your game is great he could go 9/9.

However you have 4 mech (and early mech too, in AnnoyTron and 3 Spinning up) Mechwarper can ensure you have a great early game. Also technically you have less 2 drops then you think because flametongue isn't a two drop.

You shouldn't even need to AXE about pick 26 :)



8: Wolfrider/Nightblade/Silver Hand Knight

Two Nightblades in the same draft, I think the arena is trying to tell me something. Again with the charge creatures acting as removal. With the Silver Hand as a 6/6 for 5, I'd call it the best choice, but I'm starting to worry a bit about my mana curve.

You are on the 8th pick. It's still early in the draft. I would start worrying when you get to the 15th pick.

[Yana]

Valeera/Thrall/Jaina

1: Argent Commander/Sunfury Protectory/Secretkeeper
2: Mana Wyrm/Frigid Snobold/Ogre Magi
3: Murloc Tidehunter/Nightblade/Dragonkin Sorcerer
4: Mirror Image/Piloted Shredder/Priestess of Elune
5: Bloodfen Raptor/Worgen Infiltrator/Reckless Rocketeer
6: Injured Kvaldir/Flamewaker/Arcane Nullifier X-23
7: Cone of Cold/Kvaldir Raider/Water Elemental
8: Wolfrider/Nightblade/Silver Hand Knight
9: Flesheating Ghoul/Dragonkin Sorcerer/Fireball

0 -0
1-2
2-0
3-1
4-3
5-1
6-1
7+-0

So let's see, minion with growth potential but dies easily, another slightly overpriced minion that I can't activate yet, or... removal. I would pick fireball, but opinions appreciated.

[Gandariel]

Ghoul is below average.

Sorcerer is OK, but nothing crazy (noob trap: it's terrible because I can't activate it! No, 3/5 for 4 is already decent for Arena purposes)

Fireball is the second best Common card you could get (first is Flamestrike)

@pick the worst card: what if we pick Fel Reaver and then make the deck super slow so that playing Fel Reaver is actually terrible?

[Zevox]

(noob trap: it's terrible because I can't activate it! No, 3/5 for 4 is already decent for Arena purposes)
This should definitely be emphasized. Dragonkin Sorcerer is not overcosted in the slightest. It's a fine card for arena regardless of your class or whether you've drafted buffs, because the base stats are good - or at least, good enough.

It's up against Fireball though, so pick Fireball.

[Yana]

Valeera/Thrall/Jaina

1: Argent Commander/Sunfury Protectory/Secretkeeper
2: Mana Wyrm/Frigid Snobold/Ogre Magi
3: Murloc Tidehunter/Nightblade/Dragonkin Sorcerer
4: Mirror Image/Piloted Shredder/Priestess of Elune
5: Bloodfen Raptor/Worgen Infiltrator/Reckless Rocketeer
6: Injured Kvaldir/Flamewaker/Arcane Nullifier X-23
7: Cone of Cold/Kvaldir Raider/Water Elemental
8: Wolfrider/Nightblade/Silver Hand Knight
9: Flesheating Ghoul/Dragonkin Sorcerer/Fireball
10: Lil' Exorcist/Ancient Mage/Blizzard

0 -0
1-2
2-0
3-1
4-4
5-1
6-1
7+-0

I feel this is skewed slightly in favor of the exorcist. The mage has a tempermental battle cry and has health but not much else. Blizzard isn't worth the cost unless I'm undervaluing the freeze effect. It really comes down to how common deathrattle is and how likely I am to fight someone with a bunch of those minions in the early game.

[Gandariel]

Blizzard may be a bit over costed, but it's still AoE.
AoE is rare and precious, and Blizzard is still a good card. Pick it.

FYI, Cone of cold isn't that bad either. It's not GOOD, but it has its uses. Clearing some small minions or blocking a huge dude for a turn can be very helpful.

Ancient mage is bad (and counter intuitively, spell damage isn't great in Mage)

Exorcist is... ok

[Zevox]

Blizzard may be a bit over costed, but it's still AoE.
AoE is rare and precious, and Blizzard is still a good card. Pick it.
This exactly. Also, freeze definitely has its uses at times, too.

Plus, the Exorcist just doesn't hit as often as you'd think, despite deathrattles being so good, and it's poor when its effect doesn't go off.

[GolemsVoice]

Yeah, Exorcist. A reasonable body with taunt is ok even if you don't trigger the effect.

[Lethologica]

Turns out real life is gonna get in the way, I can't take a spot. Which is fine, since there's plenty of activity as it is.

Yana: Blizzard is value.
GAAD: Axe is value.
Fleeing Coward: Fel Reaver is the high-risk high-reward pick from an anti-value perspective.

[Zevox]

Yeah, Exorcist. A reasonable body with taunt is ok even if you don't trigger the effect.
If Exorcist's body was reasonable that would be true. But it's not. It's a 2/3 for 3. That's worse than Ironfur Grizzly, which itself is a pretty low pick in arena.

[Fleeing Coward]

I think that's 2-1 in Demonheart's favour.

Pick the worst card draft

Warlock/Mage/Paladin
Arcane Golem/Jeeves/Ravenholdt Assassin
Clockwork Knight/Dancing Sword/Dread Corsair
Core Hound/Loot Hoarder/Ironfur Grizzly
Flame Imp/Shieldbearer/Flame Juggler
Captured Jormungar/Clockwork Knight/Jungle Panther
Silverback Patriarch/Darkbomb/Ironforge Rifleman
Kvaldir Raider/Priestess of Elune/Acidic Swamp Ooze
Fel Reaver/Big Game Hunter/Demonheart
Nerub'ar Weblord/Darkbomb/Clockwork Knight
Argent Commander/Fist of Jaraxxus/Target Dummy
Voodoo Doctor/Frostwolf Warlord/Worgen Infiltrator
Dragonkin Sorcerer/Dragonhawk Rider/Wrathguard

Skipped 3 easy pick. I think this set should also be an easy pick but let's just see if anyone disagrees with me.

[Mando Knight]

Probably the Wrathguard. Sure, it's a 4/3 for 2, but that effect makes it potentially far worse than the boring "good enough" of Dragonhawk Rider or Dragonkin Sorcerer.

[Lethologica]

I think it's important to have the curve on hand early for this one since we want to screw it up, right?

0 x
1 x
2 xx
3 x
4 xx
5 xx
6 x
7 x
8
9
10

Wow, this curve is deplorably decent. Screwing it up might be trickier than we thought. (What if we just picked the most expensive card from each pack?)

In that spirit, I think it's better to pick a mediocre 4 than a mediocre 3 here.

[Zevox]

Probably the Wrathguard. Sure, it's a 4/3 for 2, but that effect makes it potentially far worse than the boring "good enough" of Dragonhawk Rider or Dragonkin Sorcerer.
The effect only matters in the case of it taking significant overkill damage, which doesn't seem to happen often. Otherwise it's just Flame Imp's big brother, and I'd be inclined to say Dragonhawk Rider is worse than that.

[Gandariel]

Dragonkin Sorcerer/Dragonhawk Rider/Wrathguard

think this set should also be an easy pick but let's just see if anyone disagrees with me.

I'd say the worst one is Rider, but not by much

[Fleeing Coward]

Well, my initial thoughts were that Rider was the worst of the lot too so picking that. The curve is looking worryingly decent though if you ignore how badly some of those cards are stated.

Pick the worst card draft

Warlock/Mage/Paladin
Arcane Golem/Jeeves/Ravenholdt Assassin
Clockwork Knight/Dancing Sword/Dread Corsair
Core Hound/Loot Hoarder/Ironfur Grizzly
Flame Imp/Shieldbearer/Flame Juggler
Captured Jormungar/Clockwork Knight/Jungle Panther
Silverback Patriarch/Darkbomb/Ironforge Rifleman
Kvaldir Raider/Priestess of Elune/Acidic Swamp Ooze
Fel Reaver/Big Game Hunter/Demonheart
Nerub'ar Weblord/Darkbomb/Clockwork Knight
Argent Commander/Fist of Jaraxxus/Target Dummy
Voodoo Doctor/Frostwolf Warlord/Worgen Infiltrator
Dragonkin Sorcerer/Dragonhawk Rider/Wrathguard
Dread Corsair/Abusive Sergeant/Antique Healbot


0:X
1:XX
2:X
3:XX
4:XX
5:XX
6:X
7:X

Another obvious one I think since one of the 3/3's effect isn't that bad despite it's cost especially in Warlock.

[Lethologica]

Dread Corsair again. (I still think having an on-curve 3 is more valuable than having an on-curve 4 when the goal is to be terrible, simply because it reduces the deadness of a given opening hand.)

[Fleeing Coward]

1 vote's all I need there.

Pick the worst card draft

Warlock/Mage/Paladin
Arcane Golem/Jeeves/Ravenholdt Assassin
Clockwork Knight/Dancing Sword/Dread Corsair
Core Hound/Loot Hoarder/Ironfur Grizzly
Flame Imp/Shieldbearer/Flame Juggler
Captured Jormungar/Clockwork Knight/Jungle Panther
Silverback Patriarch/Darkbomb/Ironforge Rifleman
Kvaldir Raider/Priestess of Elune/Acidic Swamp Ooze
Fel Reaver/Big Game Hunter/Demonheart
Nerub'ar Weblord/Darkbomb/Clockwork Knight
Argent Commander/Fist of Jaraxxus/Target Dummy
Voodoo Doctor/Frostwolf Warlord/Worgen Infiltrator
Dragonkin Sorcerer/Dragonhawk Rider/Wrathguard
Dread Corsair/Abusive Sergeant/Antique Healbot
Floating Watcher/Blackwing Technician/Taz'dingo


0:X
1:XX
2:X
3:XX
4:XXX
5:XX
6:X
7:X

Unfortunately, the worst card here would further help our curve look reasonable if we pick it...

[Zevox]

Eh, I'm not completely sure whether Blackwing Tech or Floating Watcher is worse, actually. Blackwing tech is decent-ish even without the buff, while Floating Watcher is poor without his buff but potentially very big if unanswered. I guess I'd say Blackwing Tech, but there's an argument to made for the Watcher too, I think.

[Lethologica]

We're going to have to do this multiple times to hone our deck-ruining strategies. :smallbiggrin:

Watcher is strictly better than Kvaldir Raider, and Kvaldir Raider is pretty good. I'm okay with Technician here.

[Fleeing Coward]

Pick the worst card draft

Warlock/Mage/Paladin
Arcane Golem/Jeeves/Ravenholdt Assassin
Clockwork Knight/Dancing Sword/Dread Corsair
Core Hound/Loot Hoarder/Ironfur Grizzly
Flame Imp/Shieldbearer/Flame Juggler
Captured Jormungar/Clockwork Knight/Jungle Panther
Silverback Patriarch/Darkbomb/Ironforge Rifleman
Kvaldir Raider/Priestess of Elune/Acidic Swamp Ooze
Fel Reaver/Big Game Hunter/Demonheart
Nerub'ar Weblord/Darkbomb/Clockwork Knight
Argent Commander/Fist of Jaraxxus/Target Dummy
Voodoo Doctor/Frostwolf Warlord/Worgen Infiltrator
Dragonkin Sorcerer/Dragonhawk Rider/Wrathguard
Dread Corsair/Abusive Sergeant/Antique Healbot
Floating Watcher/Blackwing Technician/Taz'dingo
Wisp/Stranglethorn Tiger/Stormwind Champion
Southsea Deckhand/Wolfrider/Burly Rockjaw Trogg
Clockwork Knight/Hellfire/Pit Fighter


0:XX
1:XXX
2:X
3:XXX
4:XXX
5:XX
6:X
7:X

Have to pick Wisp in a worst card draft.
Southsea is also an obvious pick since neither of the other 2 is that expensive that it'd ruin our curve.
Next pick I'm not sure about at all. Hellfire would help us alot when we inevitably lose board control, Pit Fighter is the benchmark for 5 cost vanilla and we already have 3 mechs so Clockwork Knight is beginning to look like it might actually be synergistic.

[Zevox]

I'd say Clockwork Knight. AoE is a big deal in arena, so I don't think we should be picking it. And between Pit Fighter and Clockwork Knight, I think the Knight is easily worse even with a few mechs in the deck.

[Fleeing Coward]

Makes sense I guess. We could always avoid picking more mechs if necessary.

Pick the worst card draft

Warlock/Mage/Paladin
Arcane Golem/Jeeves/Ravenholdt Assassin
Clockwork Knight/Dancing Sword/Dread Corsair
Core Hound/Loot Hoarder/Ironfur Grizzly
Flame Imp/Shieldbearer/Flame Juggler
Captured Jormungar/Clockwork Knight/Jungle Panther
Silverback Patriarch/Darkbomb/Ironforge Rifleman
Kvaldir Raider/Priestess of Elune/Acidic Swamp Ooze
Fel Reaver/Big Game Hunter/Demonheart
Nerub'ar Weblord/Darkbomb/Clockwork Knight
Argent Commander/Fist of Jaraxxus/Target Dummy
Voodoo Doctor/Frostwolf Warlord/Worgen Infiltrator
Dragonkin Sorcerer/Dragonhawk Rider/Wrathguard
Dread Corsair/Abusive Sergeant/Antique Healbot
Floating Watcher/Blackwing Technician/Taz'dingo
Wisp/Stranglethorn Tiger/Stormwind Champion
Southsea Deckhand/Wolfrider/Burly Rockjaw Trogg
Clockwork Knight/Hellfire/Pit Fighter
Succubus/Soulfire/Dread Inferno


0:XX
1:XXX
2:X
3:XXX
4:XXX
5:XXX
6:X
7:X

So pick the Succubus and make the curve look even better? :smalltongue:

[Zevox]

I think I'd rather just pick the worst cards and ignore the curve, myself. I vote Succubus.

[Fleeing Coward]

Succubus it is.

Pick the worst card draft

Warlock/Mage/Paladin
Arcane Golem/Jeeves/Ravenholdt Assassin
Clockwork Knight/Dancing Sword/Dread Corsair
Core Hound/Loot Hoarder/Ironfur Grizzly
Flame Imp/Shieldbearer/Flame Juggler
Captured Jormungar/Clockwork Knight/Jungle Panther
Silverback Patriarch/Darkbomb/Ironforge Rifleman
Kvaldir Raider/Priestess of Elune/Acidic Swamp Ooze
Fel Reaver/Big Game Hunter/Demonheart
Nerub'ar Weblord/Darkbomb/Clockwork Knight
Argent Commander/Fist of Jaraxxus/Target Dummy
Voodoo Doctor/Frostwolf Warlord/Worgen Infiltrator
Dragonkin Sorcerer/Dragonhawk Rider/Wrathguard
Dread Corsair/Abusive Sergeant/Antique Healbot
Floating Watcher/Blackwing Technician/Taz'dingo
Wisp/Stranglethorn Tiger/Stormwind Champion
Southsea Deckhand/Wolfrider/Burly Rockjaw Trogg
Clockwork Knight/Hellfire/Pit Fighter
Succubus/Soulfire/Dread Inferno
Frost Elemental/Ancient Brewmaster/Fen Creeper


0:XX
1:XXX
2:XX
3:XXX
4:XXX
5:XXX
6:X
7:X

3 reasonably costed cards for their abilities.

[Yana]

Valeera/Thrall/Jaina

1: Argent Commander/Sunfury Protectory/Secretkeeper
2: Mana Wyrm/Frigid Snobold/Ogre Magi
3: Murloc Tidehunter/Nightblade/Dragonkin Sorcerer
4: Mirror Image/Piloted Shredder/Priestess of Elune
5: Bloodfen Raptor/Worgen Infiltrator/Reckless Rocketeer
6: Injured Kvaldir/Flamewaker/Arcane Nullifier X-23
7: Cone of Cold/Kvaldir Raider/Water Elemental
8: Wolfrider/Nightblade/Silver Hand Knight
9: Flesheating Ghoul/Dragonkin Sorcerer/Fireball
10: Lil' Exorcist/Ancient Mage/Blizzard
11: Duplicate/Argent Squire/Nerub'ar Weblord

0 -0
1-2
2-0
3-1
4-4
5-1
6-2
7+-0

Aside from the Weblord being terrible, I don't quite know where this falls. While it'd be nice to clone my minions, I don't know how well relying on that tactic would work. Sadly, the squire isn't all that useful by itself without the ability to buff.

[Lethologica]

Frost Elemental is the most expensive, the least cost-efficient, and the most dependent on having some kind of board presence to make the ability worthwhile.

EDIT: I personally think Duplicate is a cool card, so I would pick it over the Squire, but Squire's a reliable pick.
Nerub'ar is right out.

[Yana]

Valeera/Thrall/Jaina

1: Argent Commander/Sunfury Protectory/Secretkeeper
2: Mana Wyrm/Frigid Snobold/Ogre Magi
3: Murloc Tidehunter/Nightblade/Dragonkin Sorcerer
4: Mirror Image/Piloted Shredder/Priestess of Elune
5: Bloodfen Raptor/Worgen Infiltrator/Reckless Rocketeer
6: Injured Kvaldir/Flamewaker/Arcane Nullifier X-23
7: Cone of Cold/Kvaldir Raider/Water Elemental
8: Wolfrider/Nightblade/Silver Hand Knight
9: Flesheating Ghoul/Dragonkin Sorcerer/Fireball
10: Lil' Exorcist/Ancient Mage/Blizzard
11: Duplicate/Argent Squire/Nerub'ar Weblord
12: War Golem/Maiden of the Lake/Explosive Sheep

0 -0
1-2
2-0
3-2
4-4
5-1
6-2
7+-0

Nerfed Dr. Boom, cheap hero power, or 3 cost 2 damage aoe?

[Mando Knight]

Mage's Consecrate Sheep.

[Yana]

Valeera/Thrall/Jaina

1: Argent Commander/Sunfury Protectory/Secretkeeper
2: Mana Wyrm/Frigid Snobold/Ogre Magi
3: Murloc Tidehunter/Nightblade/Dragonkin Sorcerer
4: Mirror Image/Piloted Shredder/Priestess of Elune
5: Bloodfen Raptor/Worgen Infiltrator/Reckless Rocketeer
6: Injured Kvaldir/Flamewaker/Arcane Nullifier X-23
7: Cone of Cold/Kvaldir Raider/Water Elemental
8: Wolfrider/Nightblade/Silver Hand Knight
9: Flesheating Ghoul/Dragonkin Sorcerer/Fireball
10: Lil' Exorcist/Ancient Mage/Blizzard
11: Duplicate/Argent Squire/Nerub'ar Weblord
12: War Golem/Maiden of the Lake/Explosive Sheep
13: Duplicate/Flame Lance/Mechanical Yeti

0 -0
1-2
2-1
3-2
4-4
5-1
6-2
7+-0

Well, this one seems more than slightly obvious. Roboyeti is one of the most highly valued minions in arena, isn't it?

[Fleeing Coward]

Yeah, take Mech Yeti.

Frost Elemental wins 1-0 I guess.

Pick the worst card draft

Warlock/Mage/Paladin
Arcane Golem/Jeeves/Ravenholdt Assassin
Clockwork Knight/Dancing Sword/Dread Corsair
Core Hound/Loot Hoarder/Ironfur Grizzly
Flame Imp/Shieldbearer/Flame Juggler
Captured Jormungar/Clockwork Knight/Jungle Panther
Silverback Patriarch/Darkbomb/Ironforge Rifleman
Kvaldir Raider/Priestess of Elune/Acidic Swamp Ooze
Fel Reaver/Big Game Hunter/Demonheart
Nerub'ar Weblord/Darkbomb/Clockwork Knight
Argent Commander/Fist of Jaraxxus/Target Dummy
Voodoo Doctor/Frostwolf Warlord/Worgen Infiltrator
Dragonkin Sorcerer/Dragonhawk Rider/Wrathguard
Dread Corsair/Abusive Sergeant/Antique Healbot
Floating Watcher/Blackwing Technician/Taz'dingo
Wisp/Stranglethorn Tiger/Stormwind Champion
Southsea Deckhand/Wolfrider/Burly Rockjaw Trogg
Clockwork Knight/Hellfire/Pit Fighter
Succubus/Soulfire/Dread Inferno
Frost Elemental/Ancient Brewmaster/Fen Creeper
Demolisher/Fist of Jaraxxus/Dragon Egg
Zombie Chow/Sacrificial Pact/Dread Inferno
Mortal Coil/Nerub'ar Weblord/Wrathguard
Clockwork Gnome/Lowly Squire/Fen Creeper


0:XXX
1:XXXX
2:XXX
3:XXX
4:XXX
5:XXX
6:XX
7:X

Skipping Dragon Egg pick.
Sacrificial Pact is totally going to get me that win against Jarraxus.
Nerub'ar Weblord is the ultimate tech against my own deck.
Considering we're almost certainly picking another 1 drop here, Jeeves is looking like the best card for pick one :smalltongue:

[Blue Ghost]

I'd probably go Gnome here, though I guess Squire is an option as well. I've gotten some value out of Squire's inspire, so he's probably not as bad as Gnome.

[Zevox]

Lowly Squire. 1 mana 1/2 or 3 mana 2/2? Not good either way. Clockwork Gnome is actually good against non-ping classes, and the Spare Part provides some use even against those.

[Fleeing Coward]

I actually think squire is worse but since I want to try to get the matches started today, Gnome wins.

Pick the worst card draft

Warlock/Mage/Paladin
Arcane Golem/Jeeves/Ravenholdt Assassin
Clockwork Knight/Dancing Sword/Dread Corsair
Core Hound/Loot Hoarder/Ironfur Grizzly
Flame Imp/Shieldbearer/Flame Juggler
Captured Jormungar/Clockwork Knight/Jungle Panther
Silverback Patriarch/Darkbomb/Ironforge Rifleman
Kvaldir Raider/Priestess of Elune/Acidic Swamp Ooze
Fel Reaver/Big Game Hunter/Demonheart
Nerub'ar Weblord/Darkbomb/Clockwork Knight
Argent Commander/Fist of Jaraxxus/Target Dummy
Voodoo Doctor/Frostwolf Warlord/Worgen Infiltrator
Dragonkin Sorcerer/Dragonhawk Rider/Wrathguard
Dread Corsair/Abusive Sergeant/Antique Healbot
Floating Watcher/Blackwing Technician/Taz'dingo
Wisp/Stranglethorn Tiger/Stormwind Champion
Southsea Deckhand/Wolfrider/Burly Rockjaw Trogg
Clockwork Knight/Hellfire/Pit Fighter
Succubus/Soulfire/Dread Inferno
Frost Elemental/Ancient Brewmaster/Fen Creeper
Demolisher/Fist of Jaraxxus/Dragon Egg
Zombie Chow/Sacrificial Pact/Dread Inferno
Mortal Coil/Nerub'ar Weblord/Wrathguard
Clockwork Gnome/Lowly Squire/Fen Creeper
Mogu'shan Warden/Demonfuse/Ironforge Rifleman
Silent Knight/Ogre Brute/Jungle Panther


0:XXX
1:XXXXX
2:XXXX
3:XXX
4:XXX
5:XXX
6:XX
7:X

Demonfuse wins because we have all of 1 demon.
Now for a choice between 3 decent 3 drops.

[Zevox]

Silent Knight, I think. Maybe that's just because I've not played with it and the Panther would actually be worse, but that's my initial impression.

[Fleeing Coward]

Silent Knight it is, I think Jungle Panther's slightly worse but it's pretty close.

Pick the worst card draft

Warlock/Mage/Paladin
Arcane Golem/Jeeves/Ravenholdt Assassin
Clockwork Knight/Dancing Sword/Dread Corsair
Core Hound/Loot Hoarder/Ironfur Grizzly
Flame Imp/Shieldbearer/Flame Juggler
Captured Jormungar/Clockwork Knight/Jungle Panther
Silverback Patriarch/Darkbomb/Ironforge Rifleman
Kvaldir Raider/Priestess of Elune/Acidic Swamp Ooze
Fel Reaver/Big Game Hunter/Demonheart
Nerub'ar Weblord/Darkbomb/Clockwork Knight
Argent Commander/Fist of Jaraxxus/Target Dummy
Voodoo Doctor/Frostwolf Warlord/Worgen Infiltrator
Dragonkin Sorcerer/Dragonhawk Rider/Wrathguard
Dread Corsair/Abusive Sergeant/Antique Healbot
Floating Watcher/Blackwing Technician/Taz'dingo
Wisp/Stranglethorn Tiger/Stormwind Champion
Southsea Deckhand/Wolfrider/Burly Rockjaw Trogg
Clockwork Knight/Hellfire/Pit Fighter
Succubus/Soulfire/Dread Inferno
Frost Elemental/Ancient Brewmaster/Fen Creeper
Demolisher/Fist of Jaraxxus/Dragon Egg
Zombie Chow/Sacrificial Pact/Dread Inferno
Mortal Coil/Nerub'ar Weblord/Wrathguard
Clockwork Gnome/Lowly Squire/Fen Creeper
Mogu'shan Warden/Demonfuse/Ironforge Rifleman
Silent Knight/Ogre Brute/Jungle Panther
Force-Tank MAX/Oasis Snapjaw/Silver Hand Knight


0:XXX
1:XXXXX
2:XXXX
3:XXXX
4:XXX
5:XXX
6:XX
7:X

Snapjaw right?

[Zevox]

I'd say so, yes.

[Fleeing Coward]

Pick the worst card draft

Warlock/Mage/Paladin
Arcane Golem/Jeeves/Ravenholdt Assassin
Clockwork Knight/Dancing Sword/Dread Corsair
Core Hound/Loot Hoarder/Ironfur Grizzly
Flame Imp/Shieldbearer/Flame Juggler
Captured Jormungar/Clockwork Knight/Jungle Panther
Silverback Patriarch/Darkbomb/Ironforge Rifleman
Kvaldir Raider/Priestess of Elune/Acidic Swamp Ooze
Fel Reaver/Big Game Hunter/Demonheart
Nerub'ar Weblord/Darkbomb/Clockwork Knight
Argent Commander/Fist of Jaraxxus/Target Dummy
Voodoo Doctor/Frostwolf Warlord/Worgen Infiltrator
Dragonkin Sorcerer/Dragonhawk Rider/Wrathguard
Dread Corsair/Abusive Sergeant/Antique Healbot
Floating Watcher/Blackwing Technician/Taz'dingo
Wisp/Stranglethorn Tiger/Stormwind Champion
Southsea Deckhand/Wolfrider/Burly Rockjaw Trogg
Clockwork Knight/Hellfire/Pit Fighter
Succubus/Soulfire/Dread Inferno
Frost Elemental/Ancient Brewmaster/Fen Creeper
Demolisher/Fist of Jaraxxus/Dragon Egg
Zombie Chow/Sacrificial Pact/Dread Inferno
Mortal Coil/Nerub'ar Weblord/Wrathguard
Clockwork Gnome/Lowly Squire/Fen Creeper
Mogu'shan Warden/Demonfuse/Ironforge Rifleman
Silent Knight/Ogre Brute/Jungle Panther
Force-Tank MAX/Oasis Snapjaw/Silver Hand Knight
Dread Corsair/Mechanical Yeti/Soulfire
Drakonid Crusher/Corruption/Dalaran Mage


0:XXX
1:XXXXX
2:XXXX
3:XXXX
4:XXXXX
5:XXX
6:XX
7:X

The Corsairs must have heard I was hiring.
Worst removal ever or bad Spell Damage?

[Zevox]

I think I'm going to say Dalaran Mage, since Corruption will at least kill something, while the Mage probably just dies for free.

[Lethologica]

Dalaran Mage is least likely to accomplish anything of value, especially since we aren't even picking good damage spells.

[Fleeing Coward]

Pick the worst card draft

Warlock/Mage/Paladin
Arcane Golem/Jeeves/Ravenholdt Assassin
Clockwork Knight/Dancing Sword/Dread Corsair
Core Hound/Loot Hoarder/Ironfur Grizzly
Flame Imp/Shieldbearer/Flame Juggler
Captured Jormungar/Clockwork Knight/Jungle Panther
Silverback Patriarch/Darkbomb/Ironforge Rifleman
Kvaldir Raider/Priestess of Elune/Acidic Swamp Ooze
Fel Reaver/Big Game Hunter/Demonheart
Nerub'ar Weblord/Darkbomb/Clockwork Knight
Argent Commander/Fist of Jaraxxus/Target Dummy
Voodoo Doctor/Frostwolf Warlord/Worgen Infiltrator
Dragonkin Sorcerer/Dragonhawk Rider/Wrathguard
Dread Corsair/Abusive Sergeant/Antique Healbot
Floating Watcher/Blackwing Technician/Taz'dingo
Wisp/Stranglethorn Tiger/Stormwind Champion
Southsea Deckhand/Wolfrider/Burly Rockjaw Trogg
Clockwork Knight/Hellfire/Pit Fighter
Succubus/Soulfire/Dread Inferno
Frost Elemental/Ancient Brewmaster/Fen Creeper
Demolisher/Fist of Jaraxxus/Dragon Egg
Zombie Chow/Sacrificial Pact/Dread Inferno
Mortal Coil/Nerub'ar Weblord/Wrathguard
Clockwork Gnome/Lowly Squire/Fen Creeper
Mogu'shan Warden/Demonfuse/Ironforge Rifleman
Silent Knight/Ogre Brute/Jungle Panther
Force-Tank MAX/Oasis Snapjaw/Silver Hand Knight
Dread Corsair/Mechanical Yeti/Soulfire
Drakonid Crusher/Corruption/Dalaran Mage
Mortal Coil/Darkscale Healer/Demonfuse
Young Priestess/Void Terror/Fist of Jaraxxus


0:XXX
1:XXXXX
2:XXXXX
3:XXXXX
4:XXXXX
5:XXX
6:XX
7:X

Maybe we'll win on the back of a big double Demonfused Succubus :smalltongue:
Overcosted random damage spell?

[Yana]

Valeera/Thrall/Jaina

1: Argent Commander/Sunfury Protectory/Secretkeeper
2: Mana Wyrm/Frigid Snobold/Ogre Magi
3: Murloc Tidehunter/Nightblade/Dragonkin Sorcerer
4: Mirror Image/Piloted Shredder/Priestess of Elune
5: Bloodfen Raptor/Worgen Infiltrator/Reckless Rocketeer
6: Injured Kvaldir/Flamewaker/Arcane Nullifier X-23
7: Cone of Cold/Kvaldir Raider/Water Elemental
8: Wolfrider/Nightblade/Silver Hand Knight
9: Flesheating Ghoul/Dragonkin Sorcerer/Fireball
10: Lil' Exorcist/Ancient Mage/Blizzard
11: Duplicate/Argent Squire/Nerub'ar Weblord
12: War Golem/Maiden of the Lake/Explosive Sheep
13: Duplicate/Flame Lance/Mechanical Yeti
14: Murloc Tidehunter/Boneguard Lieutenant/Ship's Cannon

0 -0
1-2
2-1
3-2
4-5
5-1
6-2
7+-0

And I thought the last one was straightforward. Boneguard Lieutenant for value and health!

[Lethologica]

Boneguard Lieutenant for Yana. 3/2 that gains health off using the best hero power.

Fist of Jaraxxus for Fleeing Coward. Raise dat curve.

[Fleeing Coward]

Fist of Jaraxxus takes the final spot in this horrible deck:
http://i.imgur.com/cYo0XKL.png
Anyone think I can get to 3-3 with this pile of trash? :smallbiggrin:

[TechnoWarforged]

Anyone think I can get to 3-3 with this pile of trash? :smallbiggrin:

I'm guessing 1 win. Maybe you should record it and put it on youtube for the lolz. Good luck!



14: Murloc Tidehunter/Boneguard Lieutenant/Ship's Cannon


Another vote for Bonerguard Lieut. He's gonna guard his you know what.

[Fleeing Coward]

Too lazy to record it but here's what happened:

Game 1 v Rogue:
Curved out Dragon Egg into Nerub'ar Weblord into coin-Coarsair into Corsair + Wisp into Clockwork Knight.
Corsair 1 killed by a Harvest Golem with Raid Leader, Weblord killed by Damaged Golem + dagger, Corsair 2 killed by charging Stormwind Knight, Wisp got shot by a Elven Archer, Clockwork Knight got sapped and he dropped Imp Master same turn. Things just went further downhill from there since I had no way to kill Raid Leader.
Drew both Clockwork Knights so I could have had a Hellfire stabiliser if we drafted properly.

0-1

Game 2 v Mage
I drew all stars like Voodoo Doctor, Target Dummy, Southsea Deckhand, Shieldbearer and even the wisp eventually.
They were playing aggro mage with Wyrm into Mirror Image + Arcane Missile and played 2 Frostbolts plus 2 Flamecannon before the game ended.

0-2

Game 3 v Paladin
Wild Pyromancer + Equality when I had board control with Oasis Snapjaw and Clockwork Knight, followed by double Truesilver and double Murloc Knight. That is all.

0-3

30 Dust + 40 Dust pack.
Its funny that the decks I faced actually got better rather than worse on my way to 0-3 :smalltongue: