Halfling the best Barbarian build?

[Thurmin]

Okay, so I am probably horribly mistaken, but from all I have read the Halfling melee smasher is king. Over all other races. For one very simple feat, Risky Striker.

Risky Striker (combat, halfling)

Prerequisites: Base attack bonus +1, halfling.

Benefit: You can choose to take a –1 penalty to AC to gain a +2 bonus on melee damage rolls against creatures two or more size categories larger than you. When your base attack bonus reaches +4 and every 4 levels thereafter, the penalty increases by –1 and the damage bonus increases by 2. The bonus damage is multiplied in the case of a critical hit. You can only choose to use this feat when you declare that you are making an attack action or a full-attack action with a melee weapon. The effects last until your next turn.

Add that with Power Attack, and the fact that a significant portion of your foes will be at lease Large, I see Halflings as being the supreme barbarian damage dealer. Well and above any other race.

Am I mistaken? Because every guide, every advice column I read constantly down plays the Halfling for a melee smashing build.

[Remedy]

Let me answer your question with two questions. How often do you use all of your BAB when Power Attacking beyond the low levels? Of those times, how many times have you thought you needed more?

Because, I mean, this feat sort of just seems to be a partial power attack. It's not useful unless you would've been pushing your BAB to its limit anyway, which implies a rather low AC foe, or at least that you're far too optimized for the foes your DM is bringing out, in which case the damage boost was probably unneeded.

[Namfuak]

To expand on what Remedy said, I am currently using a level 16 duskblade with power attack, and decided to run some expected value calculations against monsters we had recently fought to try to get more damage out of power attack. As far as I can tell, even against enemies with AC significantly lower than my total attack bonus, the optimal amount to power attack for was 8 - against enemies with more AC, it dropped to 3-5. This didn't even consider any bonus damage dice, at which point power attacking was no longer the optimal option. The reason for this seems to simply be that hitting the enemy with more of your lower order iterative attacks adds more damage than adding a bit of extra damage on the end of your higher iterative attacks. Since this is effectively a way of increasing the total amount you can power attack for, it's probably going to be a bad decision to use it in addition to your full power attack unless you are combining it with shock trooper or have boosted your total attack bonus insanely high. The niche case would be to use it during turns where you cannot full attack, but it would probably be wiser to invest in ways to avoid those situations altogether.

[grarrrg]

How often do you use all of your BAB when Power Attacking beyond the low levels?


To expand on what Remedy said, I am currently using a level 16 duskblade with power attack

*points to PATHFINDER tag*
Power Attack works differently in Pathfinder, it is a scaling progression, you do not get to "choose" how much/little to use.



Probably because Damage is not the be-all-end of all builds.
First off, just by going Halfing you take around -2 to damage (-1 from weapon size decrease, -1 from Race STR penalty). So for the first how many levels Risky Striker is just "catch up" damage.
Also, Halfing Racial stats/bonuses really don't synergize all that well with Barbarian, -STR is bad, +CHA is usually worthless (it is possible to make Intimidate builds, but even then a Half-Orc has a built in +2 to Intimidate, which is better than +2 CHA), most of their traits are "meh" at best for a Barbarian, their Favored Class bonus is poor.
And most all the rest of their Racial Feats are not very Barbarian-y either.

Risky Striker is really _all_ they have going for them.
Still better than Gnomes though.

[(Un)Inspired]

Remember that as a small race it's much more difficult for halfling to get to large size (or even bigger) which is an incredibly important tactic for melee characters.

You even point out that most of the enemies you'll face will be at least large. Getting in under their reach is gonna be a pain in the arse.

[Ravens_cry]

Hmm, go for a mounted Barbarian build? Barbarians are one of the few things that can get pounce easily (it takes dedication but it's simple) and that, combined with those sweet, sweet x3 damage multipliers should help keep you ahead.
Also, there is Barbarian archetypes dedicated to mounted combat, which helps.

[Spore]

Also without Swift Foot the 30 ft base speed is just harsh for a melee character.

[Abithrios]

*points to PATHFINDER tag*
Power Attack works differently in Pathfinder, it is a scaling progression, you do not get to "choose" how much/little to use.



Probably because Damage is not the be-all-end of all builds.
First off, just by going Halfing you take around -2 to damage (-1 from weapon size decrease, -1 from Race STR penalty). So for the first how many levels Risky Striker is just "catch up" damage.
Also, Halfing Racial stats/bonuses really don't synergize all that well with Barbarian, -STR is bad, +CHA is usually worthless (it is possible to make Intimidate builds, but even then a Half-Orc has a built in +2 to Intimidate, which is better than +2 CHA), most of their traits are "meh" at best for a Barbarian, their Favored Class bonus is poor.
And most all the rest of their Racial Feats are not very Barbarian-y either.

Risky Striker is really _all_ they have going for them.
Still better than Gnomes though.

To expand on the "this is pathfinder" thing, one should note that this is almost exactly the same as power attack with a one handed weapon, but penalizing AC instead of attack. I guess this is pathfinder's shock trooper...


Also, now I want to make a joke build that focuses on this and something like reduce person to become tiny and use it on medium enemies... There is still the problem of not having any reach. Also, it would be hard to qualify for power attack while tiny but not raging.

[Eldonauran]

Joke build? Halfling barbarian is no joke build! :smallwink:

I put together a Halfling Barbarian* that was fairly effective at what he did (damage & hitting stuff).

Halfling
-Fleet of Foot
-Underfoot
Barbarian 4
-Titan Mauler
Fighter 16
-Viking
Cavalier (VMC)
-Order of Eastern Star

Feats of interest:
Big Game Hunter (you can retrain later)
Power Attack
Furious Focus
Risky Striker
Combat Expertise
Chain Challenge (pick this up when you retrain)

Rage Powers of Interest:
Reckless Abandon
Witch Hunter
Superstitious


Wait, what!? Combat Expertise? Why? Guarded (Ex) and Pierce the Guard (Ex) (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/cavalier/orders/paizo---cavalier-orders/order-of-the-eastern-star) is why. Combine that with the dodge bonuses gained from the Challenge itself, you have an overall net gain of damage.

Static Effects:
Big Game Hunter (feat): +1 Hit, +2 Dmg
Big Game Hunter (class): +1 Hit, +1 AC
Underfoot (racial): +1 AC
Rage: +2 Hit, +3 Dmg, -2 AC (more with greater rage)
-------------------------------
Total Static: +4 Hit, +5 Dmg, 0 AC

Variable Effects:
Power Attack: - Hit, + Dmg, 0 AC
Reckless Abandon: + Hit, 0 Dmg, - AC
Witch Hunter: 0 Hit, + Dmg, 0 AC
Risky Striker: 0 Hit, + Dmg, - AC
Combat Expertise: - Hit, 0 Dmg, + AC
Challenge: 0 Hit, +Dmg, + AC
Pierce the Guard: + Hit, 0 Dmg, 0 AC
-----------------------------------
Total: 2(-Hit), 2(+Hit), 4(+Dmg), 2(-AC), 2(+AC)
Simplified Total: 0 Hit, 4(+Dmg), 0 AC

Guarded: DR #/- (For when AC fails)

So, this all works out fairly well. You can argue that Pierce the Guard doesn't come into play until late, but that is what Furious Focus is for, to ignore some of the penalty to hit until we can get that ability. Most things you will fight at higher levels will have spells or spell-like abilities, so witch hunter is a great investment.


For those of you wondering what this would look like at 20th level:

Big Game Hunter (class): +1 Hit, +1 AC
Big Game Hunter (feat): +1 hit, +2 Dmg
Underfoot: +1 AC
Greater Rage: +3 Hit, +4 Dmg, -2 AC
Power Attack: -6 Hit, +18 Dmg
Reckless Abandon: +5 Hit, -5 AC
Witch Hunter: +5 Dmg
Risky Striker: +10 Dmg, -5 AC
Combat Expertise: -6 Hit, +6 AC
Challenge: +18 Dmg, +5 AC
Pierce the Guard: +6 Hit (actually negates penalty)
Furious Focus: +6 Hit (actually negates penalty)

Hit: +10
Dmg: +57
AC: +1

This does not take into account any other bonuses to hit (BAB, enhancement bonus to weapons, ability scores, etc). Damage listed above assumes a two handed weapon. Effective Barbarian level is 17 for Rage powers. Effective Cavalier level for Challenge is 18, for Guarded and Pierce the Guard it is 20.

[Novawurmson]

Random idea I thought of today:

Halfling medium favored class bonus: Increase the bonus the medium gains from its seance boon by 1/3 point.

Champion seance boon: You gain a +2 bonus on all non-spell damage rolls.

Champion Spirit Bonus: +6 attack rolls, non-spell damage rolls

So a +6 to attack rolls, +14 to damage rolls at level 20. A barbarian's mighty rage grants a +4 to attack rolls and a +6 to damage rolls (assuming a two handed weapon).

Now, the barbarian will be MUCH tankier (+10 to Con assuming Raging Vitality, plus the difference between a d8 and d12 HD, innate DR instead of needing to pull in Guardian), but the medium can do fun things like Trance of Three/Astral Beacon+Trickster for 6d6 "sneak attack" or +Marshall for +6 competence to attack and damage rolls for 1 round as a swift action (i.e. +12 attack rolls/+20 damage rolls) or bind another spirit for the day and gain access to ANY sorcerer/wizard spell or any cleric spell of 6th level or lower.

[StreamOfTheSky]

To expand on the "this is pathfinder" thing, one should note that this is almost exactly the same as power attack with a one handed weapon, but penalizing AC instead of attack. I guess this is pathfinder's shock trooper...


Also, now I want to make a joke build that focuses on this and something like reduce person to become tiny and use it on medium enemies... There is still the problem of not having any reach. Also, it would be hard to qualify for power attack while tiny but not raging.

Actually, there already was a "Pathfinder Shock Trooper" (trade AC for attack bonus, which you can then sacrifice to the power attack gods) and it was coincidentally...a rage power. Reckless Abandon, I think? So you could double up on the AC-killing to get damage from this feat and power attack without losing any attack bonus at all, as a Halfling Barbarian.

Still, there's a trait to just count yourself as another humanoid race...I think (Adopted), so that might be the better way to do this, with a race other than halfling. You'd still want to be small sized to get the benefit often, but maybe you can find a small race w/o a strength penalty. Ideally one that's still humanoid for reduce person, so you can use this even on medium foes.

Does Pathfinder have any races with the "slight build" of 3E (web enhanced) kobolds? Then you could count as tiny for the feat while still being small for everything where it'd be better.

In any case, the reach issue is a real problem with pathfinder's nerf of tumble. So even more reason to do a mounted lance charge build (lance has reach), then.

[Thurmin]

If you go Titan Mauler, you are able to negate 5ft of reach, making that point less of an issue.

In the game I'm playing, my friend is playing a far from optimized Halfling Barbarian and is still cranking out 30+ damage a round, wielding a medium sized Earthbreaker. The damage add from Risky Striker is sufficient enough to where I can't seem to build a character that will put out that same kind of damage, when highly optimized, and I love the barbarian class and am constantly trying to build one that will wreck stuff consistently.

[Sir Chuckles]

If you go Titan Mauler, you are able to negate 5ft of reach, making that point less of an issue.

In the game I'm playing, my friend is playing a far from optimized Halfling Barbarian and is still cranking out 30+ damage a round, wielding a medium sized Earthbreaker. The damage add from Risky Striker is sufficient enough to where I can't seem to build a character that will put out that same kind of damage, when highly optimized, and I love the barbarian class and am constantly trying to build one that will wreck stuff consistently.

30+ damage a round at what level?

[Thurmin]

Sorry, level 7. I don't even know his stat or build. The only feats he's taken that I'm aware of are Power Attack and Risky Striker. His rage powers are Battle Cry, Elemental Fury and Strength Surge.

I believe his strength is now 19, but I can't be certain.