Maybe Durkula's Not Totally Faking It? (Also Why He Killed the Ushers)

[Vrock_Summoner]

You know, a lot of people have been saying that Durkula is only talking about independence and freedom of action just to convince Roy that he's Evil Durkon rather than a separate entity, and that the killing of the ushers was either part of the plan or a mistaken act on his urges that he didn't realize would conflict with the plan... But I wanted to consider another possibility.

What if, aside from saying it in a way that it sounds like he's really Durkon, Durkula is telling the truth?

In other words, Hel herself didn't predict a reaction from one of Durkula's bodyguards, but Durkula did... And he killed the ushers explicitly to give himself time to have this clash of both ideologies and abilities with Roy?

His dialogue in strip 1005 (at the time of this forum post, the most recent strip) seems a bit... Disheartened, almost? For a guy willing to risk permanent oblivion to fulfill Hel's desires, he doesn't seem awfully fanatical about supporting her side. He's putting even less emotion into this than the High Priest of Sunna did when saying he'd side with the vampire if anybody helped Roy. Maybe that's just because he doesn't care what Roy has to say, but I'm wondering if it's something deeper... Like he wants to hear Roy out. As silly as this may sound given what seems to obviously be an encouragement for Roy to give into domination, I think Durkula wants to talk to Roy.

So yeah, I guess that's my wildcard theory here. Durkula isn't just a mound of quips and evil plots, he's curious, maybe even trying to find himself as much as Roy is telling him to, just in a different way. Maybe he even wants Roy to prove that he can stop him? I don't know, that's pushing it since he was apparently quite willing to unceremoniously off Roy back when they found Veldrina. Then again, that might have turned out similarly, even if it wasn't tabled to happen at such a dramatically appropriate time.

I'm not saying he isn't Evil, or even that he cares about the world at all. I think he just wants to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that Roy's ideals, the spirit behind his blade and his words, doesn't add up compared to the faith he's found in Hel.

Even if everything else I said was completely off, though, I do think there's a decent chance that the reason he killed the usher was to give him the full time to fight Roy, but if it's not an emotionally charged reason like the above then it will probably be for some nefarious continuation of his scheme.

[Mithrandir]

It's not conversation he's after, he's stalling for time.

He doesn't need to kill Roy. He just has to live/unlive long enough for the priests of the demi-gods to come in and vote.

[Vrock_Summoner]

It's not conversation he's after, he's stalling for time.

He doesn't need to kill Roy. He just has to live/unlive long enough for the priests of the demi-gods to come in and vote.
... Which would, have course, have happened faster if he hadn't killed the ushers.

I'm saying we shouldn't discount the possibility that his plans and Hel's only mostly converged, and that the HPoH has under his own will decided he wants to clash with Roy.

[NerdyKris]

He might not have realized that he was shooting himself in the foot by doing so. That or the ushers are acting under orders to move the demigod clerics who would vote against Hel out of the temple, then only bringing in the ones who would vote with her.

[Bulldog Psion]

I'm going to classify this personally as "an interesting idea, but insufficient information thus far to tell if it's true or false."

The thing is, any resistance to Hel ... what is Lurky's motivation? He has very little investment in the world -- he's only been in it a few days. He seems to dislike both Durkon and Durkon's body. If the world is destroyed, he'll either end up in the halls of Hel ( a familiar place) or he'll be part of the new world that's made, where he probably won't be a bloodsucker inside the itchily-bearded corpse of a tiresome dwarf.

[SlashDash]

... Which would, have course, have happened faster if he hadn't killed the ushers.


Objection your honor! Assuming facts without evidence!


We don't know the ushers are dead or that Durkula is responsible.

It could also be that they decided to run away knowing that they will take part in destroying the world.

Or that Belkar came by and killed them to prevent them from calling the demigods or just warned them and got them aside to help fight the actual mini vamps.

After 1000+ strips, I wouldn't be in such a hurry to bet on the most obvious explanation.

[Trillium]

That's an interesting idea. I like it.

However, I'm afraid someone said something about "undead never learn, never change", though I might be wrong.

[Quild]

... Which would, have course, have happened faster if he hadn't killed the ushers.

Wouldn't it be for Hel's line about having "a certain rapport with some of them", I'd say that Hel had no idea about how the demigods were to vote if they were to vote and just managed to have them not to vote.
What happens if there is still a tie after the demigods step?

Now, with Hel's line... Maybe having their representants killed is a certain rapport?

[theasl]

Wouldn't it be for Hel's line about having "a certain rapport with some of them", I'd say that Hel had no idea about how the demigods were to vote if they were to vote and just managed to have them not to vote.
What happens if there is still a tie after the demigods step?

Now, with Hel's line... Maybe having their representants killed is a certain rapport?

Considering Loki knows and agrees with Hel, I'd say that it's not that kind of a surprise. It would make sense that since they have been without decision-making power like she has, she has made deals with them to give them more power if they vote yes.

[The Pilgrim]

I think the removal of the ushers could be more related to the fact that Hel's real plan may nor be to get the world destroyed in this voting.

[Quild]

Considering Loki knows and agrees with Hel, I'd say that it's not that kind of a surprise. It would make sense that since they have been without decision-making power like she has, she has made deals with them to give them more power if they vote yes.

When Hel throws a line like "I am most curious how the demigods will vote. Aren't you?" with a snarky smile after having exposed her plan knowing that even with her vote, it's a tie and she needs more than that... Well, you don't need to roll high on sense motive to understand that she has something planned about it.

Loki knew nothing and agreed nothing.

Heimdall would change his vote if he can, because he'd rather take a risk with the Snarl than having Hel ruling. Not every demigod is going to accept to work for Hel in exchange of more power.

What Hel can do is having a discussion with Demigods and eliminate the representants of those that are not willing to vote as she would herself.

[Enran]

We don't know the ushers are dead or that Durkula is responsible.
I suppose you're technically correct because the plurality of ushers, but we have ample evidence that Durkula killed Gontor. We saw his fangs in him, there was no timeskip during which something else could've finished the job, and we saw the x's in his eyes. Durkula killed Gontor beyond a reasonable doubt.

(Remember, he was an usher too.)

[137beth]

Objection your honor! Assuming facts without evidence!


We don't know the ushers are dead or that Durkula is responsible.

It could also be that they decided to run away knowing that they will take part in destroying the world.

Or that Belkar came by and killed them to prevent them from calling the demigods or just warned them and got them aside to help fight the actual mini vamps.

After 1000+ strips, I wouldn't be in such a hurry to bet on the most obvious explanation.

Yea, these ones. We are already seeing Roy make a difference in stopping this vote from ending the world. I think Belkar will also play a role, though, and that could involve stalling the ushers. Of course it could also mean Belkar is the first one to here the cry for help, and goes to directly assist Roy in the fight.

[Gift Jeraff]

That's an interesting idea. I like it.

However, I'm afraid someone said something about "undead never learn, never change", though I might be wrong.

In the comic? That's never been stated.

[littlebum2002]

In the comic? That's never been stated.

I imagine he's talking about Redcloaks "undead are tools (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0830.html)" speech

[martianmister]

In the comic? That's never been stated.

If I remember correctly, it's something Rich said in forums. :smallconfused:

[martianmister]

Found it! But it's about dead souls in afterlife.
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=19683417&postcount=34

[grandpheonix]

You know, a lot of people have been saying that Durkula is only talking about independence and freedom of action just to convince Roy that he's Evil Durkon rather than a separate entity, and that the killing of the ushers was either part of the plan or a mistaken act on his urges that he didn't realize would conflict with the plan... But I wanted to consider another possibility.

What if, aside from saying it in a way that it sounds like he's really Durkon, Durkula is telling the truth?

In other words, Hel herself didn't predict a reaction from one of Durkula's bodyguards, but Durkula did... And he killed the ushers explicitly to give himself time to have this clash of both ideologies and abilities with Roy?

His dialogue in strip 1005 (at the time of this forum post, the most recent strip) seems a bit... Disheartened, almost? For a guy willing to risk permanent oblivion to fulfill Hel's desires, he doesn't seem awfully fanatical about supporting her side. He's putting even less emotion into this than the High Priest of Sunna did when saying he'd side with the vampire if anybody helped Roy. Maybe that's just because he doesn't care what Roy has to say, but I'm wondering if it's something deeper... Like he wants to hear Roy out. As silly as this may sound given what seems to obviously be an encouragement for Roy to give into domination, I think Durkula wants to talk to Roy.

So yeah, I guess that's my wildcard theory here. Durkula isn't just a mound of quips and evil plots, he's curious, maybe even trying to find himself as much as Roy is telling him to, just in a different way. Maybe he even wants Roy to prove that he can stop him? I don't know, that's pushing it since he was apparently quite willing to unceremoniously off Roy back when they found Veldrina. Then again, that might have turned out similarly, even if it wasn't tabled to happen at such a dramatically appropriate time.

I'm not saying he isn't Evil, or even that he cares about the world at all. I think he just wants to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that Roy's ideals, the spirit behind his blade and his words, doesn't add up compared to the faith he's found in Hel.

Even if everything else I said was completely off, though, I do think there's a decent chance that the reason he killed the usher was to give him the full time to fight Roy, but if it's not an emotionally charged reason like the above then it will probably be for some nefarious continuation of his scheme.

Also gonna point out, Destruction means he never, ever wants Roy to come back.

That requires either True Resurrection, Wish, or a limited wish then normal resurrection.

[Psyren]

Undead never learn is patently false:

"He does this sometimes. Disappears, only to return with some new trick." (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0704.html)

Rich's line is about souls in the afterlife never learning, changing or growing. For undead to be subject to the same restriction would defeat the allure of undeath at all - assuming your afterlife wasn't abjectly terrible, there would be no incentive to stick around if you get the same outcome anyway.