Pathfinder The Shadewright, a shadow-conjuring gish with multifaceted archetypes [Archive]

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Ethereal Gears

2015-09-18, 02:43 AM

Hello, folks!
So, this is a new class I've been working on called the shadewright. It's a gish-type class that, while lacking spellcasting, gets access to shadow conjuration as a spell-like ability and also gets to create weapons (and armor via an archetype) out of pure shadow-stuff. The class itself is fairly simple, but I created a whole slew of selectable abilities (called gloamings) as well as a whooping 9 archetypes to make the class more customizable.

This is a link to the Google Drive folder containing all the documents pertaining to the shadewright:

Shadewright Files (https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B8e09cD4OAF3QU9pRklsakpOOVU&usp=sharing)

If changes are made in response to critiques of the class, all documents in that folder will be updated, so that link will perennially be the place to go to find the most up-to-date versions of everything regarding the shadewright.

That being said, I would obviously advice people who find this class interesting to start with the Shadewright document, moving on to the Shadewright Gloamings document, before taking a gander at the archetypes. I would love any feedback on both the main class and the archetypes, however, as the latter feel rather integral to the class as a whole. I have toyed with the idea of dissolving some or all of them into separate "disciplines" within the class that shadewrights can select, although as of right now I think they're fine being reviewed as merely archetypes. Here is a small description of each archetype to give people an overview:

Bleak Clerk - Based around the idea of having a magical bag full of "lost items" that replaces the call shadows ability. Also gets sneak attack and some weird bureaucrat/gentleman spy abilities.

Deceiver - Based around feinting and creating debilitating effects through the Bluff skill. Gains abilities based on lies, deceit and rumors.

Dusk Mage - A casting-focused version of the class that reduces its HD and BAB as well as nixing the shade blade ability to focus solely on shadow conjuring.

Horrorist - Fear- and intimidate-focused archetype that creates a fear aura, can smite people stricken with fear conditions and gains some terror-themed powers.

Mimeomancer - Gains a shadowy copy of themselves that they can control, replacing the shadow conjuring powers of a normal shadewright. Also gains access to various gloamings based on mimicry and copycat behavior.

Night Gardener - Shadow druid-esque archetype, uses umbral vines and thorns and similar to attack people, gaining an at-will damage-over-time ability by embedding shadow splinters in enemies. Can build hedge mazes.

Shadow Warrior - A more martial-focused archetype. Gains full bab with its shade blade attacks, can make shade armor, reduced shadow conjuring and a few martial-themed unique gloamings.

Tragedian - A sort of shadowy anti-bard that debuffs with its bardic performance and gains access to various sonic- and performance-based new gloamings.

Umbramorph - Based around donning an umbral costume to gain evolutions, as well as becoming more adept at shadow summoning than a regular shadewright. Can make shade strike attacks with semi-incorporeal "shadow limbs".

So that's it. I hope that might give people an idea of which archetypes they might want to explore. As I said, I appreciate any and all commentary. Hope you enjoy!
Cheers,
- Gears

Xuldarinar

2015-09-18, 12:15 PM

Let me be the first to say, I adore the concept and the flavor you have presented with these, and the formatting serves to emphasize this. From the flavor and presentation standpoint alone, I have become interested in this.

Im still looking over the class, and the diverse and wondrous archetypes along with it, but so far I don't see anything that requires fixing. The flavors presented within allow one to explore all sorts of things within shadow, and while not all of them dazzle me, I wouldn't change a single one of them.

That being said, there is one thing I would like to add. It is rather thrown together, so it may be too weak or strong, but its an additional option to consider.

Shadewright
A character who chooses shadewright as her secondary class gains the following class features.
Shade Blade (Su) At 3rd level, she gains the shade blade and shadow reservoir class features. These function as a shadewright of her character level -2.
Gloaming At 7th level, she gains one gloaming. She treats her character level as her effective shadewright level when determining whether or not she can select a gloaming
Call Shadows (Sp) At 11th level, she gains the call shadows class feature as a shadewright of her character level -4.
Improved Gloaming At 15th level, she gains one additional gloaming
Greater Gloaming At 19th level, she gains one additional gloaming

Ethereal Gears

2015-09-18, 12:46 PM

You are too sweet (although judging from that avatar you may just be an umbral infiltrator sent here lull me into a sense of false security :P). I'm elated you like the concept, and I'm glad you found the archetypes worth looking over. It feels a bit strange, creating a class where the archetypes become such an integral part of it, but I am very proud of them. They are indeed very quirky and niche at times, and I would hardly expect the same player type to find all nine of them interesting! I would be curious to learn which archetypes you like more and why, though. They obviously differ a fairish bit in terms of both flavor, power level and overall complexity, so I could see a plethora of reasons for preferring one or another.

That being said, I'm glad the class at least looks balanced at a glance. That tells me it might not contain any glaring errors. Some of the archetypes contain subsystems I think are balanced but which, being somewhat experimental in nature, are rather hard to determine the overall power level of. This class is fresh off the assembly line, so I have not had time to playtest it thoroughly yet.

I think your VMC (clearly following the mold of the magus') seems quite balanced, if a bit on the powerful side for VMCs. One thing to keep in mind is that gloamings tend, overall, to be a bit more powerful than magus arcanas. This is because I reckon the magus' other class features to be, on the whole, superiror to shade blade/shade strike + class shadows. I'm not sure if that means your suggestion needs altering, though. If so, I couldn't think of how, because it looks like how I think I would have done it. Possibly replacing some part of it with the shady ability? I'm not sure. I think it's good as is, overall.

Anyway, thanks for taking a look and I'm glad it tickles your fancy!
Cheers,
- Gears

Aergoth

2015-09-18, 02:29 PM

I really like the shadewright, winds up being a sort of weird beguiler/soulblade//shadowdancer mash up.

I'm glad that the shadow bolt lets you apply the gloamings (just because flinging around entangling bolts of shadow is my kind of thing). I may have missed it in skimming over, but is there something that would let a shadewright get abjuration under their belt? I'm a fan of counterspells as a rule, but dispel magic is always the easiest way to deal with that, and destructive dispel is a fun idea.

Ethereal Gears

2015-09-18, 02:41 PM

Thanks for giving the shadewright a look, Aergoth! I'm glad you seem to like it.

To answer your question, I did somewhat deliberately eschew granting too many defensive abilities to the shadewright, focusing instead on stealth powers or sheer debuffing offense (with a touch of damage). Thus they do rather lack abjuration powers, though I would be willing to look into some abjuration-themed gloamings.

As for dispelling, there is the umbral dispel gloaming, which lets you dispel any spell you'd be capable of mimicking via call shadows, and later on gives you a sort of improved spell-turning. This ability would not be usable to together with Destructive Dispel, but it is activated as an immediate action. At 12th level a shadewright with the dusk mage archetype could use this ability to counterspell and turn any conjuration (restricted to creation and summoning) and also either any evocation or any necromancy spell of a spell level equal to or lower than 1/2 her class level. At 13th level, via Extra Gloaming, she could spell-turn a spell from any of those three schools (subschool restrictions included) of the appropriate level.

Hope that helps!
Cheers,
- Gears

Xuldarinar

2015-09-19, 07:54 AM

I have been thinking and I do have two ideas to offer.

1. Healing and Shadewrights: I think it would be interesting to provide a way for shadewrights, of an archetype or in general, to draw spells off the cleric spell list with their call shadows. Namely, for call shadows to become able to produce conjuration (healing) effects, though others would be of interest too. Healing, the way I figure it, would result in x% healing with any amount beyond that be a sort of temporary hit points that don't exceed one's maximum and fade after x amount of time. It would be odd, all things considered, but it is a thought.

2. Shadewrights and the occult: While i've noticed at least one archetype draws something from occult adventures, and I think the content here would sit just fine as is with the content there, I would be interested in seeing more opportunities for integration with the tools there. Now, whether that means something that makes their (Sp) count as psychic in nature rather than arcane (the default, as I understand it, given they draw from the sorcerer/wizard list), or maybe they become a sort of umbrakineticist (maybe a "shadow burn" feature, turning them con based), or there are other things they can mimic or utilize, I don't know. Its a thought.

Ethereal Gears

2015-09-19, 11:37 AM

I actually like both yours ideas, Xuldarinar. Thanks for the input!

Since healing spells, as noted, are of the conjuration school, it would indeed make sense to create an archetype focused on quasi-real curatives. I do quite like that flavor, actually. I think I'll try creating an archetype rather than just a series of gloamings, although if I cannot come up with a combination of new class features that works, I may do gloamings instead. I'll try to get something like that uploaded in the next few days.

I'm not completely sure how to do a more "Occult Adventures"-themed shadewright archetype. Since spell-like abilities famously lack components (which would include thought and emotion components as well as the normal kind, I should say?), changing them from arcane to psychic would not actually have an impact. I do however like the idea of some kind of shadowy blaster, maybe not literally using the kineticist's burn mechanic (of which I have to say I am not a fan, though I otherwise like the class quite a bit), but certainly something along the lines of an "umbrakineticist" could work. However, the kineticist has the least purely "occult" feel of all the OA classes, at least in my view, so it might make sense to also create some kind of medium/psychic/seance/commune with spirits-themed archetype as well. If I come up with something for either one or both of these ideas, I'll post it here. I may even start on this one before the healing idea if I feel inspired. I'll let you know!

Cheers,
- Gears

Aergoth

2015-09-19, 11:54 AM

Xuldarinar

2015-09-19, 04:42 PM

As far as Xuldarinar's quasi-real healing idea what if you meshed it with rules from the alchemist's infusions/extracts?
Quasi-real tonics distilled from the shadow plane.
Personally I'd throw in shades of the vivisectionist and/or the hungry ghost monk (the way it steals ki and gains temporary hit points seems particularly appropriate).
At higher levels you might be able to invert the effects of healing magic on a target (damaging people with positive energy, healing undead with positive energy).

While personally I see it more coming from a cleric approach, resulting in some sort of shadow based pseudo-cleric, the alchemical route could work integrated in. It could also be its own thing, but we'll see what gets done. What ever the case may be, I am certain it will turn out to be flavorful and contribute to fill yet another niche with shadow.

lunaticfringe

2015-09-19, 05:32 PM

Awesome stuff! I haven't gotten though all the archetypes but everything looks good so far. One of my favorite touches is the Regardless of Race favored class bonuses. I'm totally stealing that concept for my home games.

Ethereal Gears

2015-09-19, 05:43 PM

@Xuldarinar & Aergoth: Thanks for the suggestions, guys. I'm definitely taking it all under consideration. I do think both a shadow healer and a shadow alchemist could potentially exist as two distinct archetypes. We'll see what I can come up with. I'll post here as soon as I have something.

@lunaticfringe: Thanks! Glad you like it. Yeah, all my homebrew classes follow that rule; favored class bonuses are never tied to race. I've just never liked that idea, if I'm honest. It seems way too hard to balance, and doesn't really add much flavor. I mean, why do half-elf summoners have stronger eidolons? Why do ratfolk alchemists learn more discoveries while human ones learn more extracts? It has no thematic anchoring, or said anchoring is flimsy at best. Anyway, that's a rant for another thread. Steal away! Spread the gospel of the non-racist favored class bonus! :P

EDIT: Right. I just wanted to mention I made a tiny update to the night gardener archetype, clarifying that any creature adjacent to another creature with a shadow splinter embedded in its flesh can attempt to pull it out; it's not just your own shadow splinters you can attempt to pull out.

Xuldarinar

2015-09-21, 06:02 AM

Two things:

1: What is the Save DC against an effect generated by Call Shadows?

2: I offer a gift. An archetype for the shadewright I threw together on the spot, integrating a brew of my own, for those who would be interested in having a more malevolent aspect to their shadewright.

Tainted Shadewright

Intrinsic Corruption: A tainted shadewright always possesses a Taint score. If a character begins play as a tainted shadewright, they start with a taint score of 1. If not, then a character must acquire a taint score of atleast 1 before being able to become a tainted shadewright. In order to advance as a tainted shadewright, she must possess a Taint score of atleast 1/3 their level, rounded up. This applies, even when her call shadows ability would be advanced by another class. Should their Taint score fall beneath the minimum for a range of levels, for the purpose of all class features they are reduced to the greatest level they could possess with that taint score until their Taint score is increased, including spell level and the size of their shadow reservoir. If the tainted shadewright's Taint score is reduced below 1, they lose access to all class features with exception to their weapon proficiencies until their Taint score is returned to 1.

Tainted Reservoir (Su): The tainted shadewright draws her power not from pure umbral energy but from a pool of tainted energy through which she uses to siphon energy from the Shadow Plane. The tainted reservoir functions in all regards as the shadow reservoir except that it utilizes the tainted shadewright's Taint modifier in place of her Charisma modifier. Additionally, any class feature that draws points from this pool takes on the [Evil] descriptor, becoming an evil act and increasing the tainted shadewright's Taint score by +0.1 points, up to a maximum of 1, +1 for every three levels the tainted shadewright possesses beyond 1st level.

This ability alters shadow reservoir.

Malevolent Surge: A tainted shadowwright gains Malevolent Surge as a bonus feat at 1st level.

Note 1: For information on taint rules pertaining to pathfinder, follow the following link to complete taint (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?436313-System-Complete-Taint).

Note 2: This archetype is meant to be compatible with all currently existing archetypes of the Shadewright class. Given the diversity and the emphasis put upon these archetypes, the goal was to make something that could lend itself to any of them, rather than something to stand alone. If someone wanted to be a Tainted Horrorist, or a Tainted Umbramorph, they should be more than capable of doing so.

Edit: i added malevolent surge as a bonus feat at 1st level for consistency with other taint-centric archetypes. Given the potential drawbacks, I feel justified in doing it.

Ethereal Gears

2015-09-21, 07:51 AM

First of all, I've finished one of three additional archetypes I am planning for the shadewright:

The Quacksalver (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8e09cD4OAF3dFFyUThYQzFkYWs/view?usp=sharing)

This is a disease- and healing-themed archetype that turns you into a sort of mixture between an umbral plague doctor and a tricksy shadowy snake-oil salesman. I hope people like it. The above is a direct link, but the archetype is located in the Google Drive folder linked to in the OP, and there's where people will always be able to find the most up-to-date version of the quacksalver, as with all other shadewright files.

The second archetype will be a kineticist-inspired blaster archetype called the Shadefire Adept, the third will be some form of ghost/seances/spirit channeling-themed archetype inspired by Occult Adventures, yet to be named. I'll hopefully get both of these done in the coming week or two.

Second, @Xuldarinar:

1. Because call shadows is a spell-like ability (and also because of the further specification right at the end of the call shadows entry in the main shadewright document), the DC would be equal to 10 + the maximum spell level the shadewright is capable of mimicking via call shadows + the shadewright's Charisma modifier. So that at 1st level the DC would be 11 + Cha, at 4th level 12 + Cha, at 7th level 13 + Cha, et cetera. Do note that Spell Focus works just fine with spell-like abilities in the PF rules and thus Spell Focus (illusion) would be able to boost call shadows' DC further.

2. That looks really interesting! It certainly adds a very interesting dimension to the class' flavor, and one I definitely approve of it having! I'll have to give your Taint system a more thorough read-through, but I like that you made a simple archetype that seamlessly functions with all the other ones, since I daresay all of mine could benefit greatly from an extra dash of evlulz! :)

Aergoth

2015-09-21, 08:47 AM

I dig the flavour! Would love to see a gloaming to improve the quality of the healing provided though, maybe switching it up to half actual healing/half temporary?

Ethereal Gears

2015-09-21, 09:01 AM

Actually, Aergoth, I would posit that the umbral nostrum ability doesn't really need the sort of boost turning it into "true" healing would grant. Now, I wouldn't be averse to creating such a gloaming, even if I do feel the document is running a bit long as it is. But the way I see it, the quacksalver isn't really your standard healer. I.e., out of combat their healing might be rather nonexistent, but instead quacksalvers have the ability to cast healing spells as immediate actions at higher levels (even if they don't actually cure hit points), they can cast any healing spell spontaneously, and get up to 9th-level spells, and their pseudo-healing instead grants far more temporary hit points than even Greater False Life, and for the same duration. On top of this, they can provide it all for other party members to drink in potion form. Obviously, gaining hour-per-level relief from blindness is not actually as good as getting that blindness permanently removed, but in the pinch in combat it's the same thing, and a quacksalver can do this on the fly for any condition that has a (healing) spell to cure it. With all these benefits in mind (and I may well be overestimating them!) I am a bit leery of also granting the archetype access to "true" healing.

Sorry if that got a bit ramble-y. Just wanted to explain my thinking thoroughly. I'll mull it over. Glad you like the overall feel of the archetype at least. I did end up going for trying to combine Xuldarinar's idea of a traditional cleric-style healer with your more alchemist-tinged suggestion, and I think it turned out alright.

Cheers,
- Gears

Aergoth

2015-09-21, 09:22 AM

It's lovely, and I think it's as good as meshing those two concepts are going to get without losing some from one or the other.

The option for a quacksalver to function as a secondary healer along the lines of a bard, witch or paladin would help the shadewright and archetypes mesh into groups a little better. They don't have strong dedicated healing, but my concern is more with the ability to use actual magical healing which would stop certain effects that merely granting temporary hit points don't (ie. bleed).

Ethereal Gears

2015-09-21, 09:58 AM

That is a fair point about bleed damage. I hadn't thought of that actually. I'll see if I can cobble together some simple gloaming to allow them to make their healing a bit more real at a cost. I'll post here when I figure something out.

Ethereal Gears

2015-09-21, 10:33 AM

Quick update: I think I found a rather neat way to go about granting the quacksalver some "real" healing, while simultaneously granting them another ability Aergoth asked after earlier, namely the ability to heal undead with positive energy. I've added the following to the Quacksalver document in the Google Docs folder:

Umbral Remedy (Su)

By spending 1 additional shadow point as part of conjuring an umbral nostrum, the shadewright can will a bit more of both reality and warping shadowy energies into it, transforming it into an umbral remedy. An umbral remedy functions exactly like a regular umbral nostrum of the same spell, except as follows: if the umbral remedy would ordinarily grant temporary hit points, it only grants half as many temporary hit points. The rest of its healing instead functions like normal magical healing. An umbral remedy of a "cure" spell does not deal damage to undead creatures, but instead grants temporary hit points to and heals them just as it does living creatures. A shadewright must possess the umbral nostrum ability to learn this gloaming.

We'll see if anything about hurting living creatures with positive energy comes up later; this felt more relevant for the nonce, however.

Cheers,
- Gears

Ethereal Gears

2015-09-21, 03:04 PM

So, I am getting some feedback on the Paizo boards (where I have another Shadewright thread); the idea is being floated of making shade blades (and similar abilities granted via archetypes) last for 4 hours at 1st level, plus 1 additional hour at every class level after 4th (or something similar). Also considering dropping the two gloamings that give access to evocation and necromancy spells via call shadows (biting shadows and necrotic shadows) to be available at 6th level rather than 9th.

Ethereal Gears

2015-09-22, 07:16 AM

So, after mulling a few things over, I've made the following changes: the shade blade ability, and similar abilities possessed by archetypes that require a 10-minute ritual to complete (shade mail, umbral costume etc.), have had their durations changed to 4 hours plus one hour per class level after 4th.

I lowered the level prereq of biting shadows and necrotic shadows from 9th level to 6th level. I also lowered the prereq for the dusk mage's boundless shadows gloaming from 12th to 9th level.

Lastly, I extended the duration of the portable shade gloaming from 1 minute per class level to 10 minutes per class level.

All these changes are now reflected in the Google Docs files in the link in the OP.

Hopefully the shadefire adept (blasty archetype) and the twilight mystic (occult adventures-y archetype) will be done before the week runs out!

Cheers,
- Gears

Ethereal Gears

2015-09-22, 03:19 PM

Xuldarinar

2015-09-22, 03:33 PM

Alright, here it is:

The Shadefire Adept Archetype (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8e09cD4OAF3cXAtQ2dPanJPeGc/view?usp=sharing)

As always, if changes are made, the most up-to-date version can be found in the Google Docs folder linked to in the OP.

EDIT: Someone at the Paizo boards caught the fact that, as written, improved and greater shadow familiars (gained via the gloamings so named) can technically create spawn. This is not intended, so I'll be editing the Gloamings doc to reflect this.

I gotta say, this is actually something i'd use before using kineticist, and I actually really like the kineticist class. I simply love it, and I do look forward to seeing the twilight mystic.

I think the edits you have made have been sound, not without good reason. I do wish I had perceived the level prerequisite issue, but it isn't that massive and it has been changed so.. big deal.

Ethereal Gears

2015-09-22, 03:41 PM

@Xuldarinar: Glad you like it. I think both it and the Quacksalver posted above came out quite alright. I've created a lot of warlock-y blastery classes and archetypes over the years, but this one does have a sort of unique feel because of the shadow thematics. Anyway, the twilight mystic will probably require some more work and time than the shadefire adept, as I have in mind something a bit more experimental and unique mechanics-wise, but I'll post as soon as it's done!

Cheers,
- Gears

Ethereal Gears

2015-09-24, 06:22 AM

Aergoth

2015-09-24, 09:20 AM

Ranger/rogue-like archetype that makes semi-real traps from shadowstuff. This could replace the ability to gain most spells with emulating the create pit line, glyphs (maybe) and similar spells. Or heck, emulate knock with a skeleton key made of shadowstuff. (I might find myself writing this and I already have three projects on the go!)

Xuldarinar

2015-09-24, 10:27 AM

Alright, so I have now finished the twilight mystic, and here is the direct link:

Twilight Mystic (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8e09cD4OAF3YkMxdGN0cXdkTkk/view?usp=sharing)

I feel like it changes the class more than almost any archetype to date, so I hope it still balances out. Any comments would be appreciate. I thought this would be the last one, but I am now considering also creating a kyton-themed archetype that can graft bits of slain enemies onto itself to gain various abilities. I might do that one if people think it sounds cool. I'd also be open to any suggestions if people feel there are any shadow-themed niches missing that could be adequately filled by a shadewright archetype.

Cheers,
- Gears

What do I think of the Twilight Mystic? Well, unhelpful as it may be, my first thoughts were "Ooooooo".

Now to elaborate;

Shadow Seance is a flavorful and interesting class feature. This sets the stage for the archetype being medium-like in nature, and it is something I feel suits it well. The ability to cast psychic spells arguably opens feat opportunities, and even if it doesn't it still permits one to utilize skill unlocks while they have their umbral spirit. The choice in spell lists it can utilize is something I think works in its favor, and while it is this aspect that sets it apart in some ways far more than others, it isn't something I think drifts too far from the spirit of the shadewright class. I cannot speak for the balance of it, only that I don't see anything broken or that makes this a strictly superior/inferior choice in relation to the other archetypes.

Given my overt fondness for the fiends of the shadow plane, I have one thing to say: I look forward to seeing what the archetype looks like, and the spray of gore that follows in its wake.

A shadow(trap)smith type archetype is one niche not filled, and it would be an intriguing notion to see explored.

Another niche is not unlike that of a monk, be it the ascetic aspect or the punching people rapidly in the face. I do think this may best be accomplished, not with an archetype but a few gloaming, not that I oppose the notion of a unique archetype for it. Here is one gloaming though:

Shadow Ki
The shadewright may use points from his shadow reservoir and ki points from a ki pool granted by another class interchangeably.

Another might be to instead of forge a blade of shadowstuff, to envelop one's hand in it. Not sure the precise mechanics to it, but its an idea.

Ethereal Gears

2015-09-24, 10:28 AM

I could probably take a stab at a sort of thief/cat burglar/shadow infiltrator-style archetype, unless you'd rather do it, Aergoth?

I'm also going to add Xuldarinar's VMC suggestion to the main shadewright document.

EDIT: Xuldarinar's reply snuck in while I was writing mine. No, I think the twilight mystic is fine. Or, at least, the more I look at it, I don't feel like I would feel overly compelled to play one over a regular shadewright based on pure power level, or vice versa.

I actually think an "ascetic" archetype could be rolled into my kyton-themed idea, as kytons have this weird monk/nun/hermit-theme running through their names and such. I'll try to do one like that, adding in Xuldarinar's ki gloaming, and then some sort of shadow burglar (with traps!), again, unless someone else really wants to do that one?

Cheers,
- Gears

qazzquimby

2015-09-24, 10:39 AM

You should team up for later projects.

If you need more ideas, try theurging with homebrew classics.

Ethereal Gears

2015-09-24, 10:46 AM

That could definitely be fun! I have this massive backlog of more-or-less-finished homebrew stuff that I'm trying to post at some sort of reasonable rate, though some of it has been obsoleted a bit by recent Paizo and 3pp releases (goodbye elementalist class, we hardly knew ye!)

I do feel like I have to cap the number of archetypes somewhere, though: a ranger/rogue/trapper/thief one and a kyton/creepy umbral monk/hermit one are both good ideas. After that I may shift my focus from the shadewright for a while.

Cheers,
- Gears

EDIT: Agh! I just noticed the Nightblade (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/3rd-party-classes/ascension-games-llc/nightblade) 3pp class! Well, it does seem to be a rather different take on shadow magic from the shadewright, at least. Less weird. We'll always weirdness! :P

Aergoth

2015-09-24, 02:36 PM

I'd love to take a crack or two at the trapsmith, just to provide idea fodder if nothing else.

Ethereal Gears

2015-09-24, 02:51 PM

Sure. I've already started planning a gristly kyton-inspired shadow monk, tentatively titled "the Cenobite".

Xuldarinar

2015-09-25, 01:58 AM

Sure. I've already started planning a gristly kyton-inspired shadow monk, tentatively titled "the Cenobite".

Im sure you'll have such sights to show us.
In response to an earlier comment, I've seen the nightblade before. It works well enough and the flavor is decent. I should make a list of every path one can take that focuses on shadow magic, from classes (such as the shadow blade, shadewright, and the update to the shadowcaster) to PrCs (like the Shadowdancer) to internal class options (a wizard specializing in shadow magic, a shadow sorcerer, a shadow oracle, ect.) to other unique paths. Maybe when it reaches 50, if it hasn't already exceeded it, I'll just post somewhere the list and title it: 50 Shadows of Golarion. Bad Idea I'm sure.

Aergoth

2015-09-25, 08:38 AM

It's a little rough around the edges, but I'm fond of the idea. The Wallshadow (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tzQzt0RUoaKkOXT7_Q7aDrY4PRdy3g43by7seTFgG4k/pub)

Ethereal Gears

2015-09-25, 10:29 AM

I think the rough outline of the archetype looks good, but some of the wording is throwing me. For example, I don't quite get how a shadow trap actually works. Is the reader assumed to know some general facts about trap mechanics when they read it? I'm not very familiar with traps, but don't they have specifications like how and when they trigger, how they reset, et cetera? This is probably just my ignorance, but you mention both an attack bonus and a Reflex save DC for a shadow trap. What does this mean? Does the trap make an attack roll or does it allow a save to avoid damage? I feel like there's probably some obvious stuff here I am just being dense and missing, but could you clarify maybe?

Cheers,
- Gears

Aergoth

2015-09-25, 10:47 AM

The trigger condition is included, but I had some troubles getting the order of that information in the feature.
I'm thinking the straight attack bonus makes more sense than the reflex saves.

Let me see if I can lay this out a little better.
So instead of the shade blade, the wallshadow makes a shadow trap. It occupies a 5-foot square minimum, and can occupy a total number of 5 foot squares equal to the charisma modifier of the wallshadow (letting you place, for instance a spike strip or something across a 20 foot bridge) so long as they are all touching sides. It triggers whenever a creature enters one of those 5 foot squares, and presumably resets automatically (we want to be fair here). Assuming we stick with the attack roll, it's an attack using the wallshadow's BAB+Cha that deals damage as the wallshadow's class feature allows, of a type that the class feature allows, determined when the trap is placed. By default this means it's doing piercing, bludgeoning or slashing damage.

Ethereal Gears

2015-09-25, 11:27 AM

Alright, that makes sense. If you want to keep it more in line with how shade strike works, you could just make it automatic damage (no attack roll), and then a Will save to disbelieve it, although I'm fine with the attack roll idea as well.

I think this looks good. It might not be necessary to refer to it using the standard trap terminology, though. I mean, you're not using Craft (trapmaking) or anything like that to create it. Could just call it a shadow trap, say it's an illusion (shadow) effect with the [shadow] descriptor (a supernatural ability) that lingers for 4 hours, plus 1 hour per class level after 4th and...well, you'd have to make some kind of decision about reset time, I suppose? Takes 1 round to reset, so the trap can trigger maximally once per round? I don't know. I get how the ability works now at least. I like it!

Cheers,
- Gears

Aergoth

2015-09-25, 12:06 PM

That makes sense. And the once a round limit prevents a single trap from being used as a meat grinder. Will save to disbelieve makes sense, and categorizing it as an illusion effect makes illusory trap actually a little more on point I think. I'll update the original, see what I can do with it to make things clearer?

Aergoth

2015-09-25, 12:35 PM

And it should be updated now. Hopefully that's a little better?

Ethereal Gears

2015-09-26, 01:21 AM

Yeah, that's a lot more understandable, I think. I did come up with a few more notes, though. It would probably be useful to clarify that no two shadow traps can occupy the same space. I might also consider limiting the number of traps you can have active simultaneously to something less than 1/2 your class level, which is how it stands now. I mean, I would assume that shadow trap is meant to be able to be affected by the Shadow-Stuff Mastery feat (bottom of the main shadewright document), meaning that at 10th level you'd be able to craft one of these bad boys as a full-round action. With that in mind, I think limiting the number of simultaneous traps makes sense.

I was also thinking about your cover of darkness gloaming; I may be reading it wrong, but don't the shadow form series of gloamings (in the shadewright gloamings document) sort of make that one redundant?

Otherwise, looking good!

Cheers,
- Gears

Ethereal Gears

2015-09-26, 04:20 AM

Xuldarinar

2015-09-26, 07:31 AM

Alright so:

"There's a secret song at the center of the world and its sound is like razors through flesh. I'm here to turn up the volume."

The The Anchorite Archetype (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8e09cD4OAF3TC1KenEtUXo0ZXM/view?usp=sharing)

Hope you like!

Cheers,
- Gears

Finally, an archetype that makes me cringe in a good way. While it doesn't differ significantly in power or quality from your other archetypes, this one fulfills that exquisite niche that takes shadow from strange and exotic, to a horror to behold. The horrorist may specialize in fear, but this is the one I would be scared of most.

Aergoth

2015-09-26, 09:54 AM

I'd say there's definetly some overlap between the two, but redundancy isn't quite there yet. Cover of Darkness was intended for catching enemies flat-footed or taking cover to heal or buff in combat. It's got a short duration with hard limits but it's tricky enough to use that if someone can exploit the conditions I don't feel bad about not having capped it's use, and it's got earlier access than Shadow Form or Hide in Plain Sight.

Shadow Form's got a higher use that expands faster, so it makes more sense for out of combat applications, and will likely obsolete Cover of Darkness at some point. Cover of Darkness doesn't have the same limits on requiring dim light that Shadow Form does to trigger the invisibility, which I think is a plus.

Ethereal Gears

2015-09-27, 01:59 AM

That's a good point, actually, Aergoth. Since it only requires concealment (whether via light conditions or otherwise), I daresay it could furthermore be helpfully combined with the portable shade gloaming, which doesn't actually create darkness but merely grants the shadewright concealment.

Cheers,
- Gears

Xuldarinar

2015-09-27, 09:02 AM

I can't believe it took me this long to notice, but something is missing from all of your archetypes.

Shadow Dominion effects Call Shadows, Shade Strike, and provides a gate effect. Now, listing all currently existing archetypes for the Shadowwright:

Anchorite: Call Shadows and Shade Strike replaced. Capstone therefore is purely a gate effect.
Bleak Clerk: Call Shadows and Shade Strike replaced. Capstone therefore is purely a gate effect.
Deceiver: Shade Strike is replaced. Capstone benefits Call Shadows and provides a gate effect, but a portion of Shadow Dominion does nothing.
Dusk Mage: Shade Strike is replaced. Capstone benefits Call Shadows, although it is altered, and provides a gate effect, but a portion of Shadow Dominion does nothing.
Horrorist: Call Shadows and Shade Strike replaced. Capstone therefore is purely a gate effect.
Mimeomancer: Call Shadows and Shade Strike replaced. Capstone therefore is purely a gate effect.
Night Gardener: Call Shadows and Shade Strike replaced. Capstone therefore is purely a gate effect.
Quacksalver: Call Shadows and Shade Strike replaced. Capstone therefore is purely a gate effect.
Shadefire Adept: Call Shadows and Shade Strike replaced. Capstone therefore is purely a gate effect.
Shadow Warrior: While Call Shadows is altered, the Capstone works to full effect.
Tainted Shadewright: Call Shadows and Shade Strike are untouched. Capstone therefor works to full effect.
Tragedian: While Call Shadows is altered, the Capstone works to full effect.
Twilight Mystic: Call Shadows and Shade Strike replaced. Capstone therefore is purely a gate effect.
Umbramorph: Call Shadows is replaced. Capstone benefits Shade Strike and provides a gate effect, but a portion of Shadow Dominion does nothing.
Wallshadow: While Shade Strike is replaced and Call Shadows is altered, Shadow Dominion is addressed in the archetype.

What all but two of your archetypes have in common is that at least one of the abilities their 20th level ability effects are replaced. Now, from this point there are options. They are worth considering on a case by case bases, I think.

Add a 20th level ability to the archetype(s) that replaces Shadow Dominion.
Add a 20th level ability to the archetype(s) that alters Shadow Dominion.
Leave Shadow Dominion alone if only acquiring gate at 20th isn't a loss.

Its worth some thought. I know most don't reach 20th level so it won't effect most people's games, but.. now that it has been noticed, theres opportunity to at least address it.

On another note:

-snip-
I'm also going to add Xuldarinar's VMC suggestion to the main shadewright document.
-snip-
I am delighted in this and look forward to seeing it added when it happens.

Ethereal Gears

2015-09-27, 10:25 AM

Yeah, I'll be working on polishing all the documents and doing things like adding in your VMCs and such over the coming days. I'm also considering maybe making my own "thief/burglar"-themed archetype to add as a final archetype; I think the Wallshadow is cool, but I guess I just always like taking my own stab at a concept.

As for the capstone thing, I actually noticed that a while back but sort of ignored it. For one thing, I have very little experience with 20th-level and beyond play, and it really doesn't interest me very much. I find it thoroughly unappealing. As such, super-high-level abilities and capstones are kind of a weak point in my design capabilities.

As things stand now, I'm not really psyched about having to create unique new capstones for all these archetypes. I think I'd rather just replace the non-gate part of shadow dominion with something else, not dependent on pre-existing class features. I think the non-gate part is kind of dull, anyway. I was toying with the idea of possibly giving away the world of shadows gloaming as a capstone. I'll see what I can come up with.

Cheers,
- Gears

Xuldarinar

2015-09-27, 10:35 AM

-snip-

Im sure that will work, what ever you ultimately come up with. Devising something for each archetype for the capstone would be a fair amount of work and I'm sure a relative few would something be obvious. I'd say at least a tweak for realness to be altered similarly where relevant, but that still isn't necessarily universal and if you change Shadow Dominion then that may no longer stand as a real solution anyways. As it stands things function just fine anyways. Just, some get less for their trouble.

Ethereal Gears

2015-09-27, 11:03 AM

Xuldarinar

2015-09-27, 12:52 PM

This is my pitch for a new capstone:

Shadow Dominion (Sp or Su)

At 20th level, the shadewright gains the ability to open a portal into the heart of the umbral realm to accomplish fantastic feats of shadow magic. This ability, usable three times per day, can have one of the following two effects: it can either allow the shadewright to cast any sorcerer/wizard spell of 8th level or lower whose material components cost no more than 50 gp per class level she possesses. The spell is cast as a spell-like ability, and functions as if though mimicked via shadow conjuration (regardless of its actual school of magic). The spell's realness is considered to be 80%, and any ability affecting the realness of the call shadows ability affects the realness of this ability as well. Alternatively, the shadewright can use her shadow dominion to thin the barriers between the Material Plane and the Shadow Plane, opening an interplanar aperture connecting the two. This functions as per gate (caster level = the shadewright's class level), except it can only facilitate planar travel to or call creatures from the Shadow Plane. The planar thinning is immediately dispelled if in an area of normal or bright light, unless the shadewright succeeds on a DC 30 Will save each round, done as part of concentrating on the effect. The shadewright adds her Charisma modifier as a bonus on these saving throws. While the planar thinning consumes one of the shadewright's three daily uses of this ability, it is furthermore also only usable once per day.

I'm not sure; it's probably more powerful than the old ability. Should I maybe just have it usable once per day as opposed to thrice? I like the flavor of it, but I'm unsure of the balance. Balancing 20th-level powers is sadly not my strong suit.

I think thrice per day might be a bit much, atleast going against convention. It doesn't mean it is overpowered at 3/day, but almost certainly they could get away with using it just 1/day.

And, while I am thinking of it, a gift and an idea I may take it upon myself to flesh out, if i can figure out how.

A gloaming that gives someone access to a... different set of shadow themed options:

New Gloamings

Mysterious Shadows (Su)
The shadewright chooses a single path of shadowcaster mysteries. The shadewright can cast these in addition to mimicking conjuration spells when using her call shadows ability, provided their spell level does not exceed the maximum spell level the shadewright is able to mimic via call shadows. These are cast as mysteries cast as spell-like abilities and are just as real as they are for a shadowcaster. Every time she gains a new class level, the shadewright may exchange the path for a different one. A shadewright must be at least 6th level to learn this gloaming.

The idea, though I haven't a clue how to work it but the idea is simply this: Words of power (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/variant-magic-rules/words-of-power) blended with the Shadewright.

Ethereal Gears

2015-09-27, 02:01 PM

I'll have to look into the words of power thing more deeply, but for now I'll change the capstone to one use each of the two abilities in shadow dominion.

Xuldarinar

2015-09-27, 05:32 PM

Words of power is pretty good, if complicated. An option for compatibility would allow for an even more versatile character, provided they are quick of thought and creative with the tools they possess.

And, if i may, I do believe the Anchorite would do well to have its own capstone. Given the theme and the class it draws association with, I think it would benefit well from such a thing. Perhaps, something along the following lines:

Carnal Perfection: Through the continued mutilation of flesh and form, the anchorite achieves a state not far from the very beings that inspired him. He is forevermore treated as an outsider of the kyton subtype rather than a humanoid (or whatever the anchorite's creature type was) for the purpose of spells and magical effects. Additionally, the anchorite gains Regeneration 5. This regeneration can be neutralized by silver weapons, and by weapons and spells of an alignment (chaotic, evil, good, or lawful) chosen by the anchorite upon acquiring 20th level. This alignment must be one that opposes the anchorite's, provided the anchorite is not True Neutral in alignment, and cannot be changed. Unlike other outsiders, the anchorite can still be brought back from the dead as if he were a member of his previous creature type.

Ethereal Gears

2015-09-28, 04:45 AM

I like that idea for an ability, Xuldarinar, but I think I might add it as an option to be taken as either a carnal art (at 19th level) or a gloaming (at 18th). It could totally work as a capstone replacement, but I'm a bit leery of hard-wiring creature type changes and such into a class, even though I agree that in the specific case of the anchorite it makes a lot of sense. I think I just prefer it as a selectable option rather than a set-in-stone class feature, for those wanting to play an anchorite that's less overtly tied to the kytons. I'll work that into the archetype when I get to it as part of my fine-tuning of all the docs!

Cheers,
- Gears

Ethereal Gears

2015-09-28, 02:18 PM

Alright, so here it is:

The Midnighter (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8e09cD4OAF3MlVvM3hfZ1QwODQ/view?usp=sharing)

The idea was to make a sort of shadowy cat burglar who can steal all kinds of things. I'm still not sure about the balance of the umbral theft ability, so it may need some tweaking, but I think the central concept is solid. I guess this is basically just another one of those "can do everything the rogue can but better 'cause magic" archetypes, but I kinda like the way it turned out. Total props to Aergoth for the Shadow Trapper gloaming, which is clearly "borrowed" from le Wallshadow (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tzQzt0RUoaKkOXT7_Q7aDrY4PRdy3g43by7seTFgG4k/pub).

I don't foresee doing any more archetypes now (got two neat rows with seven in each in the archetype folder in the Google Docs link). I'll just be looking to polish things up, add a few of the awesome ideas you guys've come up with in this thread and such now, unless some really gripping idea for an archetype comes up.

Cheer,
- Gears

Xuldarinar

2015-09-28, 05:48 PM

Ethereal Gears

2015-09-28, 06:15 PM

Heh, yeah. That'd be nasty. Incidentally, though, all those classes are renowned for having good-to-fantastic Will saves, so I reckon they'd stand a decent chance against it. Otherwise, the demand for atonement castings is going to start sky-rocketing in your vicinity. :P

EDIT: I also updated the wording on Steal Innocence in the version available via the main Google Docs link in the Archetype Files folder, because I just realized it didn't explicitly say it shifted you towards evil, although that was fairly obviously the RAI.

Ethereal Gears

2015-09-29, 06:12 AM

Xuldarinar

2015-09-29, 08:47 AM

Alright, so I've added Xuldarinar's VMCs to the main Shadewright document. I've also added a gloaming called carnal transmogrification to the anchorite, which slowly but surely turns you into a kyton (including granting you an unnerving gaze). I also gave the anchorite access to a new gloaming to use mutilate to grant creatures the effects of alter self.

Lastly, I gave the quacksalver a gloaming called umbral graft that lets them grant temporary eidolon evolutions to creatures, although such creatures also take Wisdom damage while the evolutions last. That gloaming I was a bit torn about, because I felt like it suited both the anchorite and the quacksalver, flavor-wise. In the end, I figured anchorites have enough ways of warping their flesh as it is; evolutions would feel gratuitous. I do think it adds a nice, creepy buffing/offensive edge to the quacksalver though, to round out their capacities a bit more.

So that's the update on my polishing work! All this stuff is available via the Google Docs link in the OP.

The only thing I'm considering doing now is maybe adding a few more gloamings to the dusk mage, shadow warrior and umbramorph archetypes, and possibly also to the horrorist. These were the first archetypes I created for this class, and they're less expansive than latter additions. I don't want every archetype to be as long as the anchorite (9 pages!), but adding at least one more page's worth of gloamings to these archetypes may be worth considering.

Cheers,
- Gears

Well, these first archetypes could certainly use a few more tools to work with. Perhaps you'll find inspiration.

Every time I look at the shadow warrior, I keep wanting to make a paladin out of them. Is that weird?

And here is a little something that may serve some use:

Shadow Conjuration: The shaping of shadowstuff to create a semi-real creature or object.
Shadow Evocation: The shaping of shadowstuff to create things akin to energies one would draw from other planes, such as flame.
Shadow Necromancy: Taping into the shadow plane's origins and weaving negative energy with shadow, creating semi-real necromantic effects.

Shadow Abjuration: Shaping of shadowstuff to create semi-real barriers, be them physical or otherwise.
Shadow Divination: Gleaning information from the world's reflection or making targeted guesses with shadowstuff, acquiring information that may or may not be accurate in the sense you are looking for.
Shadow Enchantment: Infusing creatures with shadowstuff, attempting to illicit a mental change.
Shadow Illusion: Using shadow to accomplish illusions typically shaped without. They are no or more less real, but shadowstuff may cause them to be easier to see through.
Shadow Transmutation: Infusing creatures with shadowstuff, attempting to illicit a physical change, or at least making everyone and thing else think there has been a change.

Ethereal Gears

2015-09-29, 12:23 PM

Ethereal Gears

2015-09-29, 01:48 PM

Well, I got inspired, so I created three unique "path" options for the shadow warrior archetype:

1. Darkling Knight - grants some cavalier-like powers.
2. Gloom Reaver - grants some bestial barbarian-ish powers.
3. Murk Stalker - grants some slayer/assassin-type abilities.

Check out the Shadow Warrior (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8e09cD4OAF3R1J2WXVXc1NaeEU/view?usp=sharing) document for full info! The paths are located in the "Gloamings" section.

Cheers,
- Gears

Xuldarinar

2015-09-29, 02:57 PM

Yeah, the thought has struck me to create archetypes or gloaming trees based around shadow versions of other schools of magic besides conjuration, evocation and necromancy, but I'm thinking it might turn into too big a project. I like those conceptualizations, though, Xuldarinar! Maybe in future.

No, actually, I too kind of envision shadow warriors as somewhat akin to paladins or umbral cavaliers, or at least I like for them to have that potential. I'll see what I come up with in terms of more gloamings for the "basic" archetypes, but for the shadow warrior I would probably want to do something knight/paladin/cavalier-themed; maybe some kind of challenge-like ability. We'll see what happens.

Cheers,
- Gears

Well, I could certainly do such a thing. In fact...

Just something I cobbled together.

Deceptive Shadows (Su)
The shadewright chooses a number of sorcerer/wizard non-phantasm illusion spells equal to her Charisma modifier. The shadewright can mimic these in addition to conjuration spells when using her call shadows ability, provided their spell level does not exceed the maximum spell level the shadewright is able to mimic via call shadows. The shadewright is incapable of using an illusion cast by these means to produce noise. Every time she gains a new class level, the shadewright may exchange any of the illusion spells selected via this gloaming for different ones. A shadewright must be at least 6th level to learn this gloaming.

Defensive Shadows (Su)
The shadewright chooses a number of sorcerer/wizard abjuration spells equal to her Charisma modifier. The Shadewright can mimic these in addition to conjuration spells when using her call shadows ability, provided their spell level does not exceed the maximum spell level the shadewright is able to mimic via call shadows. Every time she gains a new class level, the shadewright may exchange any of the ??? spells selected via this gloaming for different ones. A shadewright must be at least 6th level to learn this gloaming.

Gleaning Shadows (Su)
The shadewright chooses a number of sorcerer/wizard divination spells equal to her Charisma modifier. The Shadewright can mimic these in addition to conjuration spells when using her call shadows ability, provided their spell level does not exceed the maximum spell level the shadewright is able to mimic via call shadows. Every time she gains a new class level, the shadewright may exchange any of the divination spells selected via this gloaming for different ones. A shadewright must be at least 6th level to learn this gloaming.

Enticing Shadows (Su)
The shadewright chooses a number of sorcerer/wizard enchantment spells equal to her Charisma modifier. The Shadewright can mimic these in addition to conjuration spells when using her call shadows ability, provided their spell level does not exceed the maximum spell level the shadewright is able to mimic via call shadows. Every time she gains a new class level, the shadewright may exchange any of the enchantment spells selected via this gloaming for different ones. A shadewright must be at least 6th level to learn this gloaming.

Mutative Shadows (Su)
The shadewright chooses a number of sorcerer/wizard transmutation spells equal to her Charisma modifier. The shadewright can mimic these in addition to conjuration spells when using her call shadows ability, provided their spell level does not exceed the maximum spell level the shadewright is able to mimic via call shadows. The shadewright cannot decrease their size through the use of any transmutation spell cast in this way. Every time she gains a new class level, the shadewright may exchange any of the transmutation spells selected via this gloaming for different ones. A shadewright must be at least 6th level to learn this gloaming.

Well, I got inspired, so I created three unique "path" options for the shadow warrior archetype:

1. Darkling Knight - grants some cavalier-like powers.
2. Gloom Reaver - grants some bestial barbarian-ish powers.
3. Murk Stalker - grants some slayer/assassin-type abilities.

Check out the Shadow Warrior (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8e09cD4OAF3R1J2WXVXc1NaeEU/view?usp=sharing) document for full info! The paths are located in the "Gloamings" section.

Cheers,
- Gears

Fascinating. I think you did a very good job in that. Im tempted to throw together a antipaladin/paladin-esque one, but I think whats there is sufficient and can be role-played as such. Besides, I can only think of bestowing a smite class feature and a shadow version of lay on hands/touch of corruption.

Ethereal Gears

2015-09-29, 03:16 PM

Yeah, I think getting a paladin/antipaladin + shadewright-flavor would be better done by creating a shadewright-y archetype for either of those two classes; that's my hunch, anyway.

As for your gloamings; yeah, I suppose that could work. If I'm honest, though, I do believe the RAW of my shadewright capstone is rather hazy, and would require a fairish bit of GM interpretation, and the same would probably go for your suggestions. Maybe I just have a lot of vague worries that won't actually pan out, but I feel like there should be a lot of spells whose effects would be very difficult to translate into being, say, 30% real.

For example, what would a shadow transmutation of baleful polymorph be like if the target managed to disbelieve it? I mean, obviously you could just say that size change effects simply do not happen, and I notice you specifically ruled out shrinking in your mutative shadows gloaming. I do suppose a reasonable ruling, other than nixing the size change part, would be that there's a 30% chance from round to round that the creature suffers all the other penalties of the spell, but that sort of thing would have to be spelled out.

I'm not saying it couldn't be done for every school of magic with clarifications and such, it just seems like a fairish bit of work. I'm also not entirely convinced the class really needs it. Thematically, I kind of like shadewrights being limited to conjuration, evocation and necromancy. I do suppose enchantment could be worth looking into from a flavor standpoint, but I think that would almost be more fun to handle through like a shadow temptress archetype or something. I also think the horrorist's umbral illusions gloaming covers "shadow illusions" quite well. Arguably that gloaming could be granted to shadewrights of any archetype.

Anyway, I'm not against your idea as such. If you try it out in a game or something and it seems to work fine, that'd be awesome. I'm just a bit daunted by the idea of writing up a thing like that in detail.

Cheers,
- Gears

EDIT: I'll have to look into it, or maybe Xuldarinar or someone else can tell me whether I'm wrong or not, but if it turns out it wouldn't require loads of clarifications and exceptions to allow you to shadow-mimic every school of magic, I will say that those gloamings would be an excellent idea for filling out the dusk mage archetype. It seems more logical to me to restrict these expanded call shadows' options to those shadewrights specializing uniquely in shadow calling.

Xuldarinar

2015-09-30, 01:34 AM

Exceptions, well... lets walk this down, starting with the description of Shadow Conjuration, from which we will be working from;

Spells that deal damage have normal effects unless the affected creature succeeds on a Will save. Each disbelieving creature takes only one-fifth (20%) damage from the attack. If the disbelieved attack has a special effect other than damage, that effect is only 20% likely to occur. Regardless of the result of the save to disbelieve, an affected creature is also allowed any save that the spell being simulated allows, but the save DC is set according to shadow conjuration's level (4th) rather than the spell's normal level. In addition, any effect created by shadow conjuration allows spell resistance, even if the spell it is simulating does not. Shadow objects or substances have normal effects except against those who disbelieve them. Against disbelievers, they are 20% likely to work.

A shadow creature has one-fifth the hit points of a normal creature of its kind (regardless of whether it's recognized as shadowy). It deals normal damage and has all normal abilities and weaknesses. Against a creature that recognizes it as a shadow creature, however, the shadow creature's damage is one-fifth (20%) normal, and all special abilities that do not deal lethal damage are only 20% likely to work. (Roll for each use and each affected character separately.) Furthermore, the shadow creature's AC bonuses are just one-fifth as large.

Alright. Now lets consider each school. Lets try to find a damaging and a non-damaging ability from each, working from the 20% above. Where possible anyways. These wouldn't be cases where one could and most certainly would voluntarily throw their Will saves if required of them.

Abjuration:
Shock Shield: Creatures disbelieving the shock shield will only take 20% damage from it being dismissed, and treat the AC bonus as being only 20% of what it normally would provide.
Hold Portal: Creatures disbelieving the door is being held only have a 20% chance of treating it as such.
Divination:
Discern Next of Kin: You have a 20% chance of getting accurate information, or even information at all, regarding the names and locations of the target's living relatives as well as the attitude of the target towards those relatives. (Failure may provide no information, false names, incorrect attitudes, and so on, decided by the DM.)
Enchantment:
Charm Persion: Whats to disbelieve? Your charm person works or it doesn't. Perhaps even if they fail the save you only have a 20% chance to charm the person?
Illusion:
Blurred Movement: Creatures who disbelieve have a 20% chance to perceive your movement being blurred. Shadows may trail around you, but.. nothing else really occurs.
Transmutation:
Enlarge Person: Anyone disbelieving in the effect only have a 20% chance of treating the creature as having been enlarged.

I can see where maybe a few conditions may need laid out, enchantment and transmutation most of all I think, but.. I think it is usable for most as is. Could be wrong though.

edit:

On other notes;

I do believe a shadewright-esque paladin/antipaladin would be suitable for an archetype. I'd be the one to do it, and do so gladly, but i've settled on my blackguard (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?391784-Antipaladin-Paladin-Archetype-Blackguard-Champions-of-Vice) being my ultimate take on the shadowy paladin and I'll leave it there. Blackguards of Gluttony still scare me..

I really wish there were a shadow centered qlippoth, just so I could produce some qlippoth centered content for the shadewright. Im in that outsider frame of mind at the moment. I might just have to create one..

Ethereal Gears

2015-09-30, 05:01 AM

Yeah, as I said, it was more like a nebulous gut feeling I got. The more I start looking through the sorcerer/wizard spell list and comparing spell effects to shadow conjuration, the more I am starting to feel you could probably write up a few brief general clarifications for each school without needing to rattle off a lot of specific or niche exceptions. I'll see if I can implement something like that for the dusk mage. I don't think I would consider it for a general shadewright gloaming though. That would make the default class too "caster"-y in my book, which is not what I'm going for.

I'm thinking a balanced way to do shadow enchantment might be that it simply allows two consecutive Will saves, one to disbelieve the shadow aspect and one to resist the actual charm or compulsion. If the former save succeeds (they disbelieve the shadow part), but the latter fails (the enchantment part still takes hold) you then roll a percentile dice. If your effect is 20% real and you roll 80 or less, the entire spell simply fails; otherwise it works as normal. You could possibly make it so that immunity to mind-affecting effects only works for creatures who succeed in disbelieving the shadow part but fail on the enchantment part. That may be too good; non-mind-affecting enchantments at the cost of granting two saves to avoid it. I'm not sure. It's a thought though.

Anyway, I'll see what I come up with! I'll slip over to the blackguard thread and have a gander.

Cheers,
- Gears

Vorata

2015-10-01, 06:59 PM

I'm thinking a balanced way to do shadow enchantment might be that it simply allows two consecutive Will saves, one to disbelieve the shadow aspect and one to resist the actual charm or compulsion. If the former save succeeds (they disbelieve the shadow part), but the latter fails (the enchantment part still takes hold) you then roll a percentile dice. If your effect is 20% real and you roll 80 or less, the entire spell simply fails; otherwise it works as normal. You could possibly make it so that immunity to mind-affecting effects only works for creatures who succeed in disbelieving the shadow part but fail on the enchantment part. That may be too good; non-mind-affecting enchantments at the cost of granting two saves to avoid it. I'm not sure. It's a thought though.

Granting two saves does allow for a school that has potential to fall to the way side, due to many monsters possessing immunity, a considerable buff. Is that too good? I know I wouldn't mind Charm Monster being more reliable/useful/maybe too strong as a player. On the other hand, there are cases such as Feeblemind. Feeblemind comes in late in the game, e.g. 13th level, so is removing the mind-affecting portion of a spell that reduces the Intelligence and Charisma of a being to 1 too much? I'm just as on the fence as you are. Not too much help, eh?

My first thought is to allow it, but I have a soft spot for Enchantment magics. Is it too much for the Gloaming to have the spells function as normal, with an added Gloaming that removes the Mind-affecting portion when creatures fail the shadow portion? It would allow the Shadow Enchantment to function well enough, but provides the option, albeit through a Gloaming tax, to possibly overcome the inherent problem in those spells.

Xuldarinar

2015-10-02, 01:35 AM

A question that just occurred to me, not that it is necessary to address this but; Have you given any thought to Shadewright-PrC interactions? For instance, can Call Shadows (or archetypal abilities that similarly imitate or allow one to cast spells) be used to meet casting prerequisites? Can it be advanced by "+1 level of existing spellcasting class"? If so, would it alone be advanced or would the shadow reservoir also be advanced?

Edit: Also, looking over some of the things the shadefire adept can get for gloamings, theres a template (http://archivesofnethys.com/MonsterDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Shadowfire%20Fire%20E lemental%20(Large)) I think might interest you.

Ethereal Gears

2015-10-02, 06:43 AM

Xuldarinar

2015-10-02, 12:18 PM

I honestly rarely think about PrCs. I find them to be rather an outdated design paradigm. I tend to prefer to create archetype options or similar instead when possible. That being said, I think any PrC progressing spellcasting should progress both call shadows and the shadow reservoir.

Its something I think of rarely as well, but I do find such things worth consideration. For instance, Flowing from Shadewright into Hellknight Enforcer, or Diabolist, or Demoniac, or Souleater, or... the list goes on really.

This shadowfire thing seems like it tackles a similar fluff to shadefire but from a different mechanical angle. I'm not sure if there's much in there the shadefire adept needs though. I might possibly create a gloaming to let you somehow heal damage or recover shadowburn damage when subjected to fire/cold attacks or similar.

My thought actually is something along the lines of maybe a gloaming that uses Shadow Servitor as a prerequisite that throws that template on the creature summoned; whether it increases cost or not.

My group is actually gonna play Emerald Spire soon, so it's cool to know this stuff is from that module, anyway. I am definitely playing a shadewright in that one, and had even been considering a shadefire adept.

Cheers,
- Gears.

If you do play that, I think there may be some interesting opportunities and associations to come from the origins and associations of the shadowfire elemental creatures, but I'll not delve into that. I do hope that you have a blast with it.

Ethereal Gears

2015-10-02, 03:04 PM

Hmm. I hadn't actually thought of applying the template to the shadow elementals, but that's obviously a very logical step to take. I did, for some reason, not want to create "shadefire elementals" when I made this archetype. I.e., the shadefire form gloaming, while functioning as per elemental body, merely states it turns your body into shadefire, not that it transforms you into a creature called a shadefire elemental. A small distinction, perhaps, but important in how I conceptualized the archetype.

Similarly, when I created the shadow servitor gloaming, I was very consciously letting the shadefire adept summon shadow elementals, not "sharefire elementals". My basic idea is that somehow the shadefire adept manipulates primal shadow-stuff, and shadefire is merely one facet of that; I do realize this makes the archetype name slightly misleading, concept-wise, but that's how my thinking ran.

Sorry if that got a bit navel-gazing, but as to your suggestion I do suppose it could make sense to allow you to upgrade your shadow elementals to "true" shadefire elementals. Although, in order to do that, you couldn't simply apply the shadowfire creature template to my shadow elementals; it would have to be applied to a fire elemental base to make sense. Still, that's perfectly doable, though. I'll look into creating such a gloaming. I think with the opportunity cost of having to spend an additional gloaming on it, simply increasing the shadow point cost by 1 to summon a fire elemental with the shadowfire creature template instead of a shadow elemental should be balanced.

Also, thanks! I'm really looking forward to Emerald Spire. We'll be running that side-by-side with a Rappan Athuk campaign and a more regular "adventure path" that I've created and am GMing, all set in our homebrew world. So I'm not sure when we'll get to play it or how frequently, but it seems like a really cool module and it having thematic resonance with the shadewright is just gravy! :)

Cheers,
- Gears

EDIT: Alright, so I think I managed to create two pretty neat new gloamings for the shadefire adept, called "shadow and flame" and "umbral overflow", respectively. Here is a direct link to the updated shadefire adept:

Shadefire Adept Archetype (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8e09cD4OAF3Z0piM0JidXUwZ2c/view?usp=sharing)

As always, this latest version can also be reached via the link in the OP.

EDIT II: Right, I forgot to mention this: I created a few new gloamings for the dusk mage (should be easy to spot), as well as for the horrorist (namely darkest fears, haunt sleep, welcome to my nightmare and world of horror). The documents for these two archetypes have been updated in the Google Drive folder. Probably gonna look to create a couple of new ones for the umbramorph as well.

Ethereal Gears

2015-10-03, 08:20 AM

So, I've been mulling over how or if to implement Xuldarinar's ideas for shadow versions of each school of magic, and while I'm not quite prepared to just create a gloaming for every school, I think I am going to grant some shadow transmutation abilities to the umbramorph when I get around to padding out that archetype's gloaming list.

In the meantime, to cover shadow enchantment and shadow illusions, I bring you the shadewright's 15th archetype:

The Dark Beguiler (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8e09cD4OAF3QXZzNDlIVmk1NkU/view?usp=sharing)

This one is rather along the lines of the dusk mage archetype, being very caster-focused and decreasing the class's HD, BAB, et cetera. I do think it seems balanced, but if anyone notices anything off, do let me know. Otherwise, hope folks enjoy!

Cheers,
- Gears

Xuldarinar

2015-10-03, 08:33 AM

What a wondrous addition to the array of archetypes already present.
It makes me think, perhaps it would be interesting to see a campaign run in which all characters are shadewrights, though with the option of the archetypes for diversity. All the roles are filled, though not necessarily every possible niche.

Ethereal Gears

2015-10-03, 10:27 AM

Thanks, Xuldarinar. Glad you like it! :)

Yeah, I've been toying with that idea too. I've been thinking about asking my fellow players whether we might consider doing an all-shadewright party for Emerald Spire, though I'm not sure whether they'd go for that or not.

I do feel like a lot of design space is reasonably well-covered by all these archetypes, and I have been toying with ideas for a few more.

I had this notion that a "shadow zealot" who gets inquisitor casting instead of call shadows and a bunch of divine caster/priest-flavored gloamings and possibly some sort of smite/judgment mechanic in place of shade strike could be rather cool. While we do have a serviceable healer archetype in the quacksalver, we don't actually have one with a divine feel.

I also have this weird idea for an archetype that carries around a spooky lantern that casts "anti-light" and gets freaky abilities that mix and combine the [darkness], [light] and [shadow] descriptors in interesting ways. It's a bit out there, but if I can pull it off I feel like it could be neat.

Another idea would be to create a proper pet archetype that gets something beyond both the mimeomancer's shadow surrogate and the various "shadow pet" gloamings. Something akin to an eidolon, but preferably with a unique set of mechanics since the umbramorph is already doing evolutions and can grant these to a shadow familiar if they have one via a gloaming. I'd have to come up with a proper flavor for such an archetype to make it worth writing though. I have had this vague notion of a creepy umbral puppeteer/toymaker and making the pet a shadow-infused construct. I think that might actually be the way to go with that one.

Well, anyway, there's those three archetypes to look forward to, hopefully. I'll see when and how I can get them done, and whether I start working on any of them before I flesh out the umbramorph's gloamings, a task with regards to which I've been procrastinating rather heavily lately.

Cheers,
- Gears

Xuldarinar

2015-10-03, 04:52 PM

Im all for the "Shadow Zealot" concept, and I had thought before of a light or anti-iight archetype. The pet archetype seems unnecessary, given all the tools presently available, between call shadows and various gloamings, but it wouldn't hurt to create something to that end.

By the way, a few questions regarding the Warshade.

1. In essence, do you use a familiar creature but toss them to a animal companion advancement, or is there a bit more to this?

2. Is it compatible with Improved Familiar? If it isn't, would one then require to take that feat prior to it to have such a creature for that purpose?

Ethereal Gears

2015-10-03, 07:13 PM

Well, let me just say, if I do go ahead with my "toymaker" idea, I don't foresee it being quite a traditional "pet class", although I can't say more than that at this stage.

As for warshade, I just reread it (and noticed it's misplaced alphabetically, argh!); I do suppose it's a bit vaguely worded. It's late over here, so I won't have time to fix the wording until tomorrow, but the idea is not that you keep your familiar animal but start progressing it as an AC, but rather that you exchange it for a brand new "animal companion" (i.e. a big cat, an ape, a t-rex, etc.) that gains the shadow creature template. So improved familiars would never enter into it. I'll make sure this is properly expressed in the wording.

Cheers,
- Gears

Xuldarinar

2015-10-04, 10:17 AM

I've been poking around, seeing what different interactions I can find between the Shadewright (and its archetypes) with various PrCs, and I have to say this:

Out of those i've looked at, the Dusk Mage archetype with the Hellknight Signifier has been by far my favorite. I do, though, look forward to seeing the "Shadow Zealot" to see what sorts of things I can come up with using that.

Ethereal Gears

2015-10-04, 03:10 PM

Xuldarinar

2015-10-04, 03:35 PM

Alright, fresh off the assembly line and probably a bit rough around the edges, so expect various details to be corrected and for this link to quickly become outdated (look via the OP link instead), but I think the broad outline and the abilities are good to go:

Gloom Zealot Archetype (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8e09cD4OAF3cmFnR2dkX3FLbWc/view?usp=sharing)

Cheers,
- Gears

Well, i've now found my favorite divine spellcasting class in the game. At an initial glance I can only fault it for its flexibility in mechanics and flavor, considering gloamings with it, but being limited to 6th level spells, this leaves oracles and clerics still having their edges. Im gonna have to toy with this one.

Ethereal Gears

2015-10-04, 04:03 PM

Well, the idea was that the inquisitor spell list isn't terribly flexible, and you get such a small number of spells each day, but it is true you do get to exchange them daily. I'm still considering whether the mechanic is too powerful and needs to be toned down or simply exchanged for regular inquisitor casting.

EDIT: One idea too restrict the flexibility somewhat would be to make the spells be change-able every full moon instead of every midnight, and possibly also moving the domain spells into a gloaming (selectable twice to also gain the domain powers) rather than just giving them away for free. I might also simply scrap Forbidden Prayers and exchange it for something more flavorful and less powerful.

EDIT II: I got a rather sudden rebalancing flash for this archetype, so this is what I did: I changed midnight prayers to be usable at midnight once every seven days (or the first midnight after gaining a new class level) instead of each night, and you have to pray for 8 hours to change out your spells. I like this from both a balance and a flavor standpoint, although if once a week still seems to often I could go with the full moon idea mentioned in the first edit. I also made midnight prayers replace both call shadows and lesser shadows, so you gain Cha mod spells known, plus three orisons of your choice that you can swap out whenever your use midnight prayers. I kept the domain spells in there though, but I restricted the domain list. You can either choose a domain appropriate for your deity or you can choose Darkness, Death, Evil, Law, Trickery or Void.

I also changed the forbidden prayers gloaming to only open up the witch spell list (seemed more thematically appropriate too). It's still possible the archetype needs further tweaking, but I think these changes make a lot of sense. As I said, I posted this one in rather a rougher state than I usually do with these, so I expected it to need some fine-tuning.

Xuldarinar

2015-10-04, 09:46 PM

As ultimate arbiter of RAI, I have a question on the Gloom Zealot.

Lets suppose I have access to 2nd level Inquisitor spells via Midnight Prayers. Lets suppose my charisma score is 12. Do I have to choose between having a 1st level inquisitor spell or a 2nd level inquisitor spell, or do I get 1 1st level and 1 2nd level? This is, of course, not including the domain provided spells.

Ethereal Gears

2015-10-04, 10:05 PM

I'm not sure I understand your question. Let me clarify how things would, and could you please tell me if what I type out here isn't clear from midnight prayers' description? That'd be really helpful!

Each time you perform your midnight prayers, you pick 3 orisons plus a number of spells of 1st level or higher equal to your Charisma modifier. These become your "spells known" until you perform your midnight prayers again. These spells known can be freely mixed and matched, so if your Charisma is 18 and you have access to 3rd-level spells, you could pick four 1st-level spells, four 2nd-level spells, three 2nd-level and one 1st-level, two 3rd-level, one 2nd-level and one 1st-level, et cetera. Your domain spells are not added for free to your list of "spells known"; they're simply added to your options. So if you have access to 3rd-level spells and your Charisma is 18 and you have the Darkness domain, you can choose your four "spells known" from among all 1st-3rd-level inquisitor spells, plus the first three spells on the Darkness domain's spell list.

Now, having explained this, I'd also like to ask if this seems fair, or would it be more balanced to automatically grant your domain spells as bonus spells known, in addition to the Cha mod number of spells you pick out for each midnight prayers session? Since I've now changed midnight prayers to only being usable once every seven days, I could imagine implementing a buff like that to balance that nerf out.

EDIT: I'd also be curious to learn if the nerf to 1/week instead of 1/day for midnight prayers seems fair? Sometimes when I look at it i think "it's only your Cha mod spells; that's so few it's only fair you should get to change them out every day." But then sometimes I feel I'm underestimating the versatility of that, even with so few "spells known slots", and that makes me think the nerf is justified. I'm going to have to come to a decision on this eventually.

Xuldarinar

2015-10-04, 11:40 PM

Ethereal Gears

2015-10-05, 05:44 AM

Thanks for the input.

Yes, it is a rather strange ability, mechanically, and I can understand how it would strike a lot of people as odd, but I rather like the flavor, personally, of getting this sort of a melange of strange spells whenever you pray to your shadowy god.

Having said that, I think I'm starting to agree with you that the number of spells known is a bit wonky. Obviously, because the ability is rather non-traditional compared to normal casting, balancing it is a bit difficult. If it turns out too tricky to balance, I may have to scrap the whole concept. However, I hope it won't come to that.

What I'll do now is return midnight prayers to being usable every midnight, and make it one spell per spell level (including 0th-level spells), and then a number of bonus spells equal to Cha mod. This is a gish class after all, and so pumping Charisma through the roof to gain more spells known won't really be an option. Although I will note that with the whole shade blade mechanic, shadewrights are a lot more SAD than your average gish, which is always important to keep in mind. A lot of the time they can get by with a little bit of Dex and Con, and then a whole lot of Charisma.

The only other thing I'm considering is changing the shadow-blessed weapon gloaming into a static class feature replacing shade blade and shade strike (obviously increasing its duration). I'll see if that happens or not. My instinct is it's fine as a gloaming, but we'll see.

EDIT: I'm just going to mention that the next archetype concepts are a creepy puppeteer/toy-maker, the darklantern anti-light archetype, the crepuscularch which is a vile scheming member of an umbral court. That might let me out, although I have thought before that I've finally come up with my last archetype idea, and then a new one pops up, so we'll see!

Xuldarinar

2015-10-05, 12:05 PM

Given a bout of boredom, and a brief burst of inspiration, I decided to create a few things to fill a particular niche. Names and details subject to change, of course.

Path of the Enshadowed Templar†
The shadewright belongs to a tradition that stands for, and against, a particular moral concept alignment. The shadewright must possess a corner alignment (Lawful Good, Lawful Evil, Chaotic Evil, or Chaotic Good) and must select one of their two alignments to exalt. The shadewright gains the following; an aura consistent with their chosen alignment, a code of conduct appropriate to that alignment, the ability to detect the alignment directly opposed to their chosen alignment like a paladin's detect evil so long as they possess at least 1 point in their shadow reservoir, and they lose the benefits of this gloaming should they violate the code or change alignment. By atoning, they may regain the benefits of this gloaming and change the alignment specific benefits and requirements if they so choose. Each time the shadewright selects this gloaming, she chooses one of the three benefits listed below to gain. This gloaming can be selected a total of three times, but each benefit can only be gained once.

Shaded Hand (Su): By expending 1 shadow point as a standard action, the shadewright can heal or harm a creature with a touch by an amount equal to the damage their shade strike deals, depending upon whether the shadewright is good or evil aligned respectively. Healing provided by this ability is bestowed in the form of temporary hit points that do not stack with temporary hit points gained from any other sources. If this is normally able to heal, it deals damage to undead creatures, and visa versa. Regardless of whether this is used to heal or harm, healing or damage vanishes after 1 hour per class level has passed. This ability is modified by any feat, spell, or effect that specifically works with the lay on hands paladin class feature, along with any effect that would modify the shadewright's shade strike.
Smiting Blade (Su)*: At the shadewright's discretion, any shade blade she forges can be attuned to smite their foes. By expending 1 shadow point as a swift action, the shadewright can select one target within sight to smite. This functions identically to the paladin's smite evil except as follows; This effects creatures directly opposed the the shadewright's chosen alignment and is enhanced against outsiders of that alignment subtype and creatures possessing an aura like that of a cleric of that particular alignment, this only functions on attacks made with a shade blade, the deflection bonus only functions if the shadewright is wearing shade mail, and this effects only lasts for 1-hour per class level.
Shadow-Blessed Weapon (Su): This functions identically to the gloom zealot gloaming by the same name.

Channel Umbral Energy (Su)
By expending 2 shadow points as a standard action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity, the shadewright can release a wave of shadowy energy by channeling such power through their shade blade. This energy can be used to cause or heal damage, depending upon which is done by the shadewright’s shaded hand ability and following the same changes and limitations as shaded hand.

Channeling umbral energy causes a burst that affects all creatures of one type (either undead or living) in a 30-foot radius centered on the shadewright. The amount of damage dealt of healed is based on the damage dealt by shadewright’s shade strike. Creatures that take damage from channeled umbral energy receive a Will save to disbelieve, halving the effect. The DC of this save is equal to 10 + 1/2 the shadewright’s class level + the shadewright’s Charisma modifier.

The shadewright must be able to present her shade blade to use this ability. This ability is modified by any feat, spell, or effect that specifically works with channel positive energy if it heals living creatures, or channel negative energy if it deals damage to living creatures, along with any effect that would modify the shadewright's shade strike. In spite of requiring the shadewright to present their shade blade to use this ability, this does not modify the nature of the shadewright’s shade blade. A shadewright must possess the Shaded Hand ability from the Path of the Enshadowed Templar gloaming to learn this gloaming.

Ethereal Gears

2015-10-05, 02:47 PM

Xuldarinar

2015-10-05, 05:29 PM

I like the flavor of your shadow warrior path, but I'm a bit sceptical of its balance. I think that the smite + shadow-blessed weapon combo feels a bit excessive in its offense-boosting capacity. I would prefer expanding on shaded hand and grant you access to cruelties/mercies or similar.

I'll give you that. Alright, a replacement for gaining access to the shadow-blessed weapon gloaming, in the form of two mutually exclusive ones:

Merciful Shade (Su): Upon selecting this, the shadewright gains a number of paladin mercies equal to her Charisma modifier, up to a maximum of the shadewright's level divided by 3. For the purpose of determining which mercies they can select from, the shadewright uses their class level as their effective paladin level. These mercies are cumulative and are applied whenever the shadewright uses shaded hand to heal. These mercies do not truly remove effects, but rather inhibit them until the temporary hit points granted by shaded hand are removed, via damage or from the passage of time. Whenever the shadewright gains a new gloaming, they may replace any number of their mercies with new ones, provided they qualify for them. A shadewright may only access and utilize this if they are good aligned. If their alignment turns evil and they atone, they may exchange this for Cruel Shade.

Cruel Shade (Su): Upon selecting this, the shadewright gains a number of antipaladin cruelties equal to her Charisma modifier, up to a maximum of the shadewright's level divided by 3. For the purpose of determining which cruelties they can select from, the shadewright uses their class level as their effective antipaladin level. These cruelties are not cumulative, and as such only one applied is whenever the shadewright uses shaded hand to deal damage, chosen from those known to the shadewright at the time they used shaded hand. These cruelties are not entirely real effects, and as such their effects can end before their duration is completed if the damage dealt with that use of shade hand is removed, via healing or from the passage of time. Whenever the shadewright gains a new gloaming, they may replace any number of their cruelties with new ones, provided they qualify for them. A shadewright may only access and utilize this if they are good aligned. If their alignment turns to good and they atone, they may exchange this for Merciful Shade.

Ethereal Gears

2015-10-05, 06:03 PM

Yeah, I like that a lot better. Personally, if I were to create something paladin-esque for the shadewright (and I may still do), I probably wouldn't bind them to an alignment-based code. I would create something entirely new based around secrecy and lies and such (a shadow templar can never willingly reveal a secret, et al). However, I know a lot of people love them some paladins/blackguards and an LG shadewright with these gloamings would certainly make for a very compelling conflicted champion of good, so I still think this fulfills a niche of its own.

Cheers,
- Gears

Ethereal Gears

2015-10-06, 03:31 PM

A small update, but I thought it rather neat.

I created the following new gloamings for the shadefire adept:

Shadefire Splash (Su)

When launching a shadefire bolt, the shadewright can instead lob the bolt like a splash weapon, transforming it into an amorphous globule of shadefire that has a range increment of 20 feet and uses the throw splash weapon special attack. The target of a direct hit from a shadefire splash is affected as normal for a shadefire bolt, while creatures in the splash radius take minimum damage, with a Reflex save to halve this damage. A shadefire splash affected by the enhanced shadefire gloaming only applies its ancillary effects to the target of a direct hit and to those creatures in the splash radius that failed their Reflex saves to halve the splash damage. A shadewright must possess the shadefire ability to learn this gloaming.

Shadefire Whip (Su)

By spending 1 shadow point as a swift action, the shadewright can conjure a sinuous whip of pure shadefire that lasts for 1 minute per class level and requires a free hand to wield. A shadefire whip cannot be sundered, but it may be disarmed. While wielding a shadefire whip, the shadewright increases her reach when using her shadefire to make shadefire slams by 5 feet, plus an additional 5 feet at 12th and 18th level. The shadewright is considered to threaten squares within the reach of her shadefire slams while wielding a shadefire whip, and can make an attack of opportunity with the shadefire whip by expending either 1 shadow point or an immediate action. A shadewright must be at least 6th level and possess the shadefire ability to learn this gloaming.

The document in the Google Drive folder has been updated to include these.

Cheers,
- Gears

Xuldarinar

2015-10-06, 06:37 PM

What a wonderful update. I honestly never would have thought of the splash weapon approach.

I do have a question in terms of interactions. I was fiddling around with the Horrorist and seeing how it worked with VMC Sorcerer (Aberrant bloodline), and figured I'd ask this one:

Suppose a character picks up both the Shadow Familiar Gloaming, and the Aberrant Tumor feat. What happens? Do the effects result in two distinct familiars, or one that is advanced by both sources?

Ethereal Gears

2015-10-06, 07:26 PM

Xuldarinar

2015-10-06, 11:47 PM

Thanks. I thought the splash idea was kind of neat.

Now this is rather a convoluted issue (the one of multiple familiars), but it's purely a PF rules question and not an issue unique to the shadewright. The RAW states that all classes granting familiars stack their levels to determine its abilities. This means that a horrorist with an aberrant tumor familiar would progress her shadow familiar much faster. Now, I know a common house rule is to instead simply grant two familiars, both progressing separately, and I can see the point of that in certain cases. But that would be completely up to the GM. As the creator of the shadewright, considering that shadow familiars can become quite powerful when they advance to greater shadows, I would not advise letting a shadewright player stack multiple familiar progressions to gain a super-shadow familiar, but it is undoutedly RAW and the fix, granting multiple separate-advancing familiars, is pure house rule, but a house rule that makes a lot of sense in this case.

Hope that helps!

Cheers,
- Gears

That makes sense. With stacking we get into too much fun trouble.

Shadewright + Shadow Familiar + VMC Sorcerer (Aberrant) + Aberrant + Eldritch Heritage (Arcane) = Familiar at Character level times 4, minus 2. Get up to Greater Eldritch Heritage and that becomes Character level x4. Lets face it, I would most likely be more scared of the Horrorist's familiar than I would be of him.

I do have a question, with the house-ruled route, would you say the tumor familiar would remain entirely separate, or to benefit from Improved Shadow Familiar? Looking at the wording, given you specified [B]shadow familiar, so I would assume not.

Ethereal Gears

2015-10-07, 06:36 AM

Yes, it gets pretty crazy. I'm not sure, but I think it works the same way if you, say, are a druid and could somehow wrangle a second animal companion with an "effective druid level" via a feat or something. I don't think such a combination exists in the current 1st-party rules, but there you go. The only thing I would note is that technically there are no rules for advancing a familiar beyond 20th level, so your 4x-character level familiar would still cap out at 5th level (if you could achieve quadruple wizard level by then).

Now, as the for the improved shadow familiar gloaming and other gloamings, I think it's pretty clear-cut and shouldn't require any RAI. If a gloaming says it affects your shadow familiar, it doesn't affect creatures other than your shadow familiar, your shadow familiar being defined as the familiar you acquired via the shadow familiar gloaming. Is your tumor familiar from the Aberrant Tumor feat your shadow familiar? No. In that case, it does not benefit from any gloamings or other abilities that specifically affect your shadow familiar. You similarly could not transform one of your other familiars into a warshade.

Hope that clears that up!

Cheers,
- Gears

Ethereal Gears

2015-10-07, 08:37 AM

So I did my own take on a "shadow templar" path for the shadow warrior. Now, obviously this shouldn't be seen as a replacement for Xuldarinar's enshadowed templar. I just wanted a slightly different flavor. Both concepts are totally viable. After all, rules bloat is a beautiful thing, and I for one refuse to believe there is such a thing as too many options. Otherwise we wouldn't have both champion of the divine warpriests and paladins. :)

So here it is:

Path of the Orphic Templar†

The shadewright belongs to a tradition of umbral templars. Each time the shadewright selects this gloaming, she chooses one of the three benefits listed below to gain. This gloaming can be selected multiple times, but each benefit can only be gained once.
• Orphic Touch (Su): When in an area of dim or less light, the shadewright can spend 1 shadow point to use lay on hands, as the paladin ability, or touch of corruption, as the antipaladin ability, using her class level as her effective paladin/antipaladin level.
• Shadow Boon (Su): The shadewright gains either one paladin mercy or one antipaladin cruelty, using her class level as her effective paladin/antipaladin level to qualify for these. These mercies/cruelties can be delivered via the orphic touch ability. The shadewright can gain this benefit more than once, granting her a different mercy or cruelty each time.
• Umbral Grace (Ex): The shadewright gains a bonus equal to her Charisma modifier on saving throws against divination effects, as well as any effect with one of the following descriptors: cold, darkness, death, evil, good, light, pain and shadow. When in an area of dim or less light, this bonus instead applies to all the shadewright's saving throws.
In order to qualify for this gloaming the shadewright must uphold the code of conduct of an orphic templar. Violating this code of conduct causes the shadewright to lose access to all her class features except weapon and armor proficiencies until she receives an atonement spell. The orphic templar's code of conduct consists of the following three precepts:
I. An orphic templar must succeed on a Bluff check to tell a far-fetched or impossible lie to a creature whose HD equals at least 1/2 her own once every seven days.
II. An orphic templar may never willingly reveal a secret entrusted to her by another.
III. An orphic templar may never willingly reveal her true name to a creature. If she does so, she must kill that creature within 24 hours to uphold her code of conduct.

Cheers,
- Gears

Xuldarinar

2015-10-07, 12:09 PM

Ethereal Gears

2015-10-07, 01:32 PM

Yeah, I've noticed this alloprax thread of yours and been meaning to give it a thorough look-through. The concept looks really cool. Big into cosmic horror myself, as may not come as a very big surprise. I'll review the alloprax before the week is out, and I definitely think it could be cool to integrate it with the shadewright. If you have ideas for stuff, go ahead and create; I'm sure I'll want to join in once I've read it.

Cheers,
- Gears

SkipSandwich

2015-10-07, 03:15 PM

I first want to say I really love what you've done here, the mechanics and flavor for the base class and across the archetypes is amazing. In particular I love the ideas behind the Bleak Clerk, however, the Bag of Needful things seems quite underpowered compared to either Call Shadows or the other archetypes's replacements. Call Shadows can emulate a 7th level spell with a single action while costing only 1 shadow point, for the Bleak Clerk to do the same, they have to spend 1 minute pulling out a 7th level scroll and then an action to activate it, spending a total of either 4 or 5 shadow points (depending on if 4.5 rounds down or up). I would propose the following adjustments;

non-magical gear is as normal, with the extra caveat that items with a cost less then 1/10th your gp limit and weight less then 1/10th your weight limit may be drawn without spending shadow points, so long as you have at least 1 point remaining in your pool. This takes only a Full-Round Action to complete (compared to the normal 1 minute).

Drawing magical items also takes only 1 shadow point, but the time required increases as the spell level increases as follows: 1 Full-Round action (0th level spells), 1 min (1st-2nd level spells), 5 min (3rd-4th level spells), 10 min(5th-6th level spells) 30 min (7th level spells). You may spend additional shadow points to speed up the search, each point spent reduces the time by one step, to a minimum of 1 Full-Round Action.

With this, it still takes a minimum of 2 actions and 5 shadow points for the Bleak Clerk to draw and cast a 7th level spell mid-combat, but they don't have to devote a 1/3rd or more of their entire pool on out-of-combat utility.

Ethereal Gears

2015-10-07, 03:37 PM

@SkipSandwich: I'm glad you like the stuff!

The bleak clerk is my own favorite archetype, and probably the one I've fiddled with the most. I'm really happy someone took the time to critique it, because it has a lot of variables and I did have to do a lot of thinking when I was balancing it. Since the bag of needful things can do such a potentially vast number of things in the hands of a creative player, I did choose to err on the side of caution a bit when deciding how it functions. You do have some good points, though, so let me respond to the critique and suggestions:

There is a feat at the bottom of the main shadewright document called Shadow-Stuff Mastery, which speeds up various abilities possessed by regular shadewrights as well as those possessed by some of the archetypes. A bleak clerk with this feat can pull an item out of her bag of needful things as a full-round action, and at 10th level can do so as a move action. This is my solution to the problem of the long "pull item from bag" time, and I think I rather prefer it to your suggestion, which strikes me as a bit too complicated. I could however imagine having a quicker starting activation time and letting Shadow-Stuff Mastery boost that yet more.

I think you may be slightly unfair when comparing the bag of needful things to call shadows. Call shadows can, initially, only mimic conjuration spells of the summoning and creation subschools, with the added penalty that when these spells are cast they are only partially real. A bleak clerk, by contrast, can pull almost literally any spell out of her bag of needful things, including healing spells, "there's an app for that" spells to circumvent various adventuring hurdles, et cetera. Now, that being said, I do agree with you that it's possible the shadow point costs are a bit steep. I also think you're right about saying that very cheap items should be retrievable at no cost. That was a very good catch.

Here's my proposed fix: I'll cut the standard activation time for needful things down to a full-round action, and we'll keep referring people to Shadow-Stuff Mastery to speed things up (initially standard action, then move action at 10th level). As for scrolls and potions, I'll cut the cost down to 1/2 spell level (minimum 1). It is worth remembering that in PF rounding down is always assumed unless it is specifically stated otherwise, so that's not necessary to point out in rules text. For items costing less than 10 gp per class level, withdrawing them does not expend shadow points. For the lost wonders gloaming I'll cut the cost down to 3 shadow points. I'll also reduce the time expenditure for lost wonders to 10 minutes. Would these things make the archetype more playable in your eyes?

Cheers,
- Gears

SkipSandwich

2015-10-07, 04:28 PM

Thanks for pointing out Shadow Stuff Mastery, since I did miss that the 1st time around.

Your changes look good, though is it now intended that 0th-1st level scrolls and potions have a base cost of 0? I think it could bear clarifying that magical items should have a minimum cost of 1 shadow point, and are not covered by the 10gp/level free summoning limit on non-magical items, (so 0th-3rd = 1pt; 4th-5th = 2pts; 6th-7th = 3pts). I think we can agree that potentially having unlimited uses of ALL 1st level spells by 3rd-5th level (30-50gp free summon) would be a bit much.

Dropping the ritual time down to 10 minutes for Lost Wonder is a good idea as well, since as I read it it still issues a 'soft' suppression on your Bag of Needful Things while active, making it less universally useful then it could be.

:EDIT: ignore the struckthrough text, serves me right for trying to throw out a quick response right before leaving for my lunch break. I no brain while hungry.

Ethereal Gears

2015-10-07, 04:52 PM

I also changed the return item gloaming to just take 1 minute, but upped the Profession (clerk) DC from 10 + your class level to 15 + your class level. Initially Profession (clerk) was not as useful to the class as it is now, and the rather low DC for that ability was an artifact of this. Otherwise, I implemented the changes as noted in my previous post, and the document in the Google Drive folder has been updated.

I'm very glad you gave me these notes. Especially the free low-cost nonmagic items thing is something I'm flabbergasted I hadn't thought of myself. It makes so much sense and makes the archetype a lot more fun. I do remember thinking my playtest bleak clerk feeling like it didn't quite have the power level I wanted, but I couldn't figure out where the snags lay. With these changes I feel a lot more enthused about playing one of these guys (which I may in an upcoming adventure with my home group) myself!

Cheers,
- Gears

SkipSandwich

2015-10-07, 05:39 PM

I'm glad you appreciate the feedback, it's always nice when you can help something cool become even cooler.

As for the Return Item DC, I would say to put the DC at 15 + 3x spell level for magical items and DC 10 + gp value/100 for non-magical items. This makes the highest DC 36 for 7th level scrolls and 30 for a 2,000gp mundane item. This keeps the DC for magical items at just under 50% success rate for the highest level of magic items assuming minimal build investment, while making it easier to return weaker items.

A 1st level Clerk likely has a +6 modifier vs DC 18 (1st level scroll) and would need to roll a 12 or higher to return.
A 6th level Clerk (minimum level to take Return Item Gloaming) has about a +11 modifier vs DC 21 (2nd level scroll) and would need to roll a 10 or higher to return
A 20th level Clerk has at least a +25 modifier vs DC 36 (7th level scroll) and needs to roll an 11 or higher to return.

Ethereal Gears

2015-10-07, 06:12 PM

Your suggestion would certainly fine-tune the ability's balance more exactly, but it strikes me as overly fiddly. A simple progressing DC is a lot easier to keep track of than having to look up the market prices of your items. I also actually think you're underestimating the sort of Profession (clerk) bonuses most bleak clerks will be aiming for.

For instance, my playtest bleak clerk at 7th level has a +26 modifier when making Profession (clerk) checks. This does however include the love lost trait (+2), a masterwork tool for Profession (clerk) checks (+2), and a Circlet of Persuasion (+3). Some of these might not be available in all campaigns, but even so a bonus closer to +20 than +10 is hardly unreasonable at such levels. In fact, a bleak clerk requires rather a high Profession (clerk) bonus if she wishes to be able to reliably use scrolls from the bag of needful things. Since she lacks a spell list, and by definition a lot of her scrolls will require emulating an Int or Wis score, she needs to pump Profession (clerk) to keep up with the UMD checks its subbing for. It is important not to forget that bleak clerks use Charisma, not Wisdom, for Profession (clerk) checks.

With this in mind, I think the DC as it stands now is fine. I'm not saying your suggestion (or some variation thereof to account for slightly higher skill bonuses than you estimated) wouldn't work or even wouldn't be a bit more balanced, but it just strikes me as too complex for such a small ability. A difference in tastes, I'd wager.

Cheers,
- Gears

SkipSandwich

2015-10-07, 07:44 PM

@ Gears

Fair enough. My main concern with the DC flat-scaling by class level however is running into the Truenamer problem where they either never get better at the things they are supposed to specialize in or actually become worse at them if they don't invest enough resources into it.

You could just say that mundane items are a flat DC 15 to return and only scale DC for magical items at 15 + 4x spell level or however high you need for the numbers to look right for you. It's to my taste though that a minimal investment (Max Skill Ranks + average ability mod + native boosts from class) should result in a ~50% success rate , and that choosing to invest further in something should be rewarded rather then required.

If a character invests their limited resources such as feats and wealth (for + skill items) to the point where they have a 100% chance of making that check at any given level, I think that's fantastic and they should feel good about their build choices.

That's just my 2cp though.

Ethereal Gears

2015-10-07, 08:27 PM

Well, the reason bleak clerks will invest a lot in Profession (clerk) has nothing to do with the internal mechanics of this archetype, and everything to do with how the Use Magic Device skill works. It's not this little selectable gloaming that will be pushing a bleak clerk to max out Profession (clerk), but rather her desire to be able to reliably succeed on her Profession (clerk) checks to activate scrolls from her bag of needful things (since she makes Profession [clerk] checks in place of UMD checks).

Now, I agree that a 50% success chance is desirable when you've made a "minimal" or "average" investment in a skill. Luckily, I think this ought to be the case with the gloaming as things stand now. A bleak clerk at 6th level who has a Charisma modifier of +5 (not unreasonable; they don't really need a lot of ability scores except Dex and Cha thanks to targeting touch AC with their shade blades), has invested 6 skill ranks in Profession (clerk) and gains a +3 bonus due to it being a class skill has a skill bonus of +14 vs. a DC of 15 + 6 = 21. They need to roll 7 or higher in order to successfully return an item. Even if we assume a Charisma modifier of only +3, we still have a greater than 50% chance to return an item successfully. As class levels increase and Charisma naturally rises via items and ability score increases, the success chance just keeps on growing. At 20th level the DC is 35, and a minimally invested bleak clerk with a, say, +6 Charisma modifier has a bonus of +29. If anything, I think one could argue for raising the DC further, but I don't think the gloaming is overpowered, so I don't mind most bleak clerks succeeding on returning an item most of the time.

Hope that clears things up!

Cheers,
- Gears

EDIT: This may just be me worrying over nothing, but I do hope I'm not coming off as too argumentative about this. It's only a small class feature, after all, and possibly not worth harping on for too long. I do really appreciate you taking the time to analyze the class. I like erring on the side of excessive politeness on the Internet, because, well, the Internet is awful. :)

Ethereal Gears

2015-10-08, 09:18 AM

Alright, so I've finished a rather crazy and complicated archetype, but I love the concept, so I'm really hoping it's balanced, or, if not, that it can be made balanced. I give you:

The Crepuscularch (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8e09cD4OAF3dExMTVlKZXY3OG8/view?usp=sharing)

The concept behind this one is basically letting you play an eccentric umbral nobleman/noblewoman who lures enemies into your spooky shadow mansion. It has a lot of moving parts and the mechanical core of it is very unique and (I think!) powerful, so I would be extremely grateful if anyone would care to take a look and tell me if anything immediately jumps out as unbalanced or wonky.

Anyway, I hope people enjoy!

Cheers,
- Gears

SkipSandwich

2015-10-08, 10:49 AM

@Crepsularch

I love it! Now I want to design a Halfling Crepuscularch and his Tiefling Bleak Clerk butler.

"Wellcome to my home, I promise you'll have a hell of a time."

More comments to come later when I've had more time to dig into it, but nothing yet jumps out as particularly over/under powered.

:EDIT:

This class is obviously strongest inside their demesne, with limited options outside of it. Perhaps it could use an ability similar to the Menacing Manor's Little Plot (an abberation homebrew PrC from these boards designed around transforming your body into an extradimensional haunted house). The Little Plot ability let the Menacing Mannor designate a patch of real world to be a 'inside' it's body for the purposes of manifesting features. Perhaps a "Patio/Porch" room type that has a wall on which the front door to the demesne is placed, with the remainder of the room being the deck and front lawn which overlaps the natural terrain of the area with shadow foliage. In addition to giving her a target for things such as Booby Trap or Makeshift Oubliette, it could also give her a Umbral Verdure or even a Hedge Maze type effect as the Night Gardener abilities.

I also feel the archetype is begging for a way to incorporate the benefits of the World of Shadow Gloaming into the Demesne, both for the planar traits as well as the possibility of being able to create a semi-permanent doorway that must be fixed to a real-world door but grants at-will access to the Demesne. (This could be a door or gateway attached to a real-world building, but more mobile Crepuscularch may designate the door of a wooden wagon or a doorway on a ship or similar large vehicle.)

:EDIT#2: A link to the Ozodrin (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?320374-Tooth-and-Tentacle-Remix-3-P-PEACH&highlight=ozodrin+pathfinder) base class (pathfinder edition) on which the Menacing Manor PrC (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?390719-Fang-and-Pseudopod-Ozodrin-3-5-update/page2&highlight=ozodrin) is based.

Ethereal Gears

2015-10-08, 11:38 AM

I'm glad you like the concept, and relieved nothing looks wildly out of whack. Having rather an obsession with playing against type, I would probably make both my crepuscularch and the bleak butler LG and go for a whole umbral Jeeves & Wooster angle. :P

EDIT: Already found two tiny things to fix. You don't need to be within 30 feet of your target to affect them with the switch rooms gray eminence power (it already has enough range restrictions), and the demesne mastery power allows you to unlock doors when opening them telekinetically, but not to lock them again when closing them. This seems necessary since every time you open a new doorway into the shadow demesne all doors start out locked. Just to keep people updated! :)

Ethereal Gears

2015-10-08, 12:16 PM

I suppose some sort of porch gloaming could be doable. Although, I mean, you already have the ability to sneak into your shadow demesne and then just summon anyone into it (Will save negates) if they are within 30 feet of the doorway. That seems to me to already have some of the functionality you're after, no? Booby traps can already be set within 30 feet of the doorway as per the gloaming, and it wouldn't be hard to grant the same benefit to the makeshift oubliette gloaming.

Since the archetype is already so intricate, I think it would be ideal to find fixes that don't add on further slews of rules text, if at all possible. I feel like between being able to send household guards out to 30 feet beyond the doorway, being able to booby trap out to the same range, and being able to pull people into the shadow demesne, you do have some options. I would, as noted, be open to letting makeshift oubliette function within this radius too. I could even imagine just extending the whole baseline radius to 60 feet (although in my experience 30 feet is usually rather a larger radius than one imagines).

One other small fix I could think of would be to let you pull people into any room within the shadow demesne from within 30 feet of its doorway, rather than just being able to pull them in past the door. This is how the ability originally worked, but I thought it was too powerful. I wouldn't be against it though. Thoughts?

Cheers,
- Gears

EDIT: I could definitely imagine doing something to integrate this archetype with world of shadows and shadow dominion, although I'm not sure how necessary it is. I mean, I think just having an umbral cloister, a shadow demesne and a world of shadows as three separate abilities would work out just fine, without requiring additional gloamings to synergize them. The class is sort of balanced around there never being any truly permanent doorways into the shadow demesne, so that might be a little tricky to pull. Not undoable, though. If I can think of some way to do it I may create a gloaming or two towards that end.

EDIT II: So, just to keep things up to date, I have now implemented the following changes: the switch rooms ability can now move a creature into any space within your shadow demesne, as long as it doesn't contain a trap or hazard. This ought still to allow you to teleport an enemy right into your aquarium underwater, but probably not within the reach of your sharks with frickin' laser beams on their heads; expect table variation on this as, while "hazard" is a technical term in PF with a specific definition, I wouldn't fault a GM for interpreting it on a case by case basis; the crepuscularch is that kind of class.

I extended the radius for all effects that used to be able occur within 30 feet of the doorway to the shadow demesne to 60 feet. I think this is fair, since it is a static radius. I also allowed makeshift oubliettes to be opened within this radius.

I would like to keep it at this level without needing to create a "porch" gloaming, because I like the idea of your primary focus being to drag foes into the shadow demesne to sort of "divide and conquer" in combats with lots of enemies. Will this drag combat out a bit? For sure, and the fact that the class gains access to summons compounds this; this is one of those archetypes you want a well-prepared, organized player who likes fiddling and keeping track of stuff to play.

So, I'd be interested to hear any views with these changes. I could still imagine adding more gloamings if it still feels like the crepuscularch is too screwed when not inside her shadow demesne. I will also start looking into at least creating a gloaming to integrate this archetype with world of shadows and possibly making creating a permanent doorway possible (still iffy about that; but if it won't require too much rewriting I won't mind).

That's it for now. Pardon the rather lengthy post. I just thought adding a second edit seemed better than triple-posting.

SkipSandwich

2015-10-08, 07:56 PM

I think switch rooms was fine with dragging outsiders to just inside the door, since "inside a room" is going to be within 1 move action from the door for the majority of targets snatched anyway. I do approve on increasing the range, since the ability needed it. (Personally I would have just slapped on a range of Close [25ft +5ft/2 class levels] and been done with it.)

On further reflection, i'll agree with you on a "poarch gloaming' being unneeded, a Crepuscularch who wants more universal battlefield control can still pick up Shadow Form -> Shadow Tendrils or Woebegone Aura just like any other shadewright, and with the increased range, summoned guards become more useful as well.

Kitchen is pretty lackluster though, Cook People takes an hour to prepare and only effects a single target, giving it one more upgrade to emulate hero's feast at an appropriate level seems fitting.

Having the Boudoir generate an Attraction aura while the door is open and the Crepuscularch is inside would be pretty neat as well, with the Attraction effect ending as soon as some poor sap walks inside and the door slams shut behind him.

Integrating World of Shadows and the Demesne could be a simple as a few lines under the World of Shadows Gloaming that a Shadewright with the Shadow Demesne ability instead applies the benefits to her existing Demesne instead of creating a new demi-plane, and listing Shadow Demesne as an alternate prerequisite to Shadow Cloister (since that ability is entirely redundant to the Crepuscularch)

Ethereal Gears

2015-10-09, 01:41 AM

Thanks. Those are some really useful notes!

After a bit of fiddling, I've now restated switch rooms to work like this:

Switch Rooms: By expending one use of her gray eminence as a standard action, the crepuscularch becomes aware of all creatures located inside her shadow demesne or within 60 feet of its doorway (if she could normally perceive them). As part of the same standard action, the crepuscularch can then teleport any one such creature to either just inside or just outside the shadow demesne's doorway. If the target is already located within the shadow demesne, she can also teleport it to any other space on the inside. Creatures gain a Will save (standard gloaming DC) to resist the effects of this ability.

I also updated the boudoir and kitchen gloamings to look like this:

Boudoir (Su)†

When the shadewright designs her shadow demesne, she can designate one area of it as her boudoir. This area must occupy at least three 10-foot cubes and be enclosed on all sides by walls and floors, accessible via exactly one door. When the shadewright enters her boudoir alone, all other creatures within her shadow demesne must succeed on a Will save or else do all they can to enter the boudoir, feeling drawn to do this as per reckless infatuation. Any creature entering the shadow demesne while the shadewright is alone in her boudoir must also make this save. This effect ends as soon as a creature enters the boudoir, after which the boudoir's door automatically closes and locks. While alone in her boudoir with one other creature, the shadewright can spend one use of her gray eminence to affect that creature as per charm person for as long as it remains alone or together with the shadewright within her boudoir. At 6th level this ability can instead be made to function as charm monster by spending two gray eminence uses. At 12th level the ability can be made to function as dominate person by spending three gray eminence uses. This improves to dominate monster at 18th level if the shadewright spends four gray eminence uses. A shadewright must possess the shadow demesne ability to learn this gloaming.

Kitchen (Su)†

When the shadewright designs her shadow demesne, she can designate one area of it as her kitchen. This area must occupy at least three 10-foot cubes. While inside her kitchen, the shadewright can spend two uses of her gray eminence to summon an umbral chef to cook a delectable meal. This takes 10 minutes and functions like a casting of create food and water (caster level = the shadewright's class level), except the food is delicious and umbrally exotic rather than bland, and it vanishes when the doorway into the shadow demesne does if not eaten before then. Beginning at 12th level, by spending four uses of her gray eminence while inside her kitchen, the shadewright's chef can instead prepare a banquet as per heroes' feast, using her class level as the caster level. A shadewright must be at least 6th level and possess the shadow demesne ability to learn this gloaming

I also created three new gloamings:

Crepuscular Hauteur (Su)

Once per round, the shadewright can make an Intimidate check to demoralize a foe as a free action. By spending two uses of her gray eminence, the shadewright can make an Intimidate check to demoralize every foe within her shadow demesne. A shadewright must be at least 6th level and possess the shadow demesne ability to learn this gloaming.

Disinvite (Su)

By spending 2 shadow points as a standard action, the shadewright can disinvite a creature into her shadow demesne. The creature must make a Will save or else lose the ability to enter the shadewright's shadow demesne. This ability otherwise functions as per bestow curse. A shadewright must be at least 9th level and possess the shadow demesne ability to learn this gloaming.

Umbral Heir (Su)

The shadewright counts as possessing both the shadow walker and umbral cloister gloamings for the purposes of qualifying for the world of shadows gloaming. If she possesses the world of shadows gloaming, the shadewright's shadow demesne can, at her discretion, gain all the planar traits of the world of shadows; this choice is made each day when the shadewright refreshes her shadow reservoir. In addition, while within her world of shadows, the shadewright can open a doorway into her shadow demesne without expending any shadow points, although when doing this she cannot gain gray eminence from opening the doorway. A shadewright must possess the shadow demesne ability to learn this gloaming.

The document in the Google Drive folder has been updated to reflect all these changes.

Cheers,
- Gears

SkipSandwich

2015-10-09, 09:17 AM

Looks good!

The Disinvite gloaming reminds me of an idea I had though, of a "Guest Key" Gloaming where the Crepuscularch can invest Shadow Points into creating a guest key she can give to others. This requires a 1-hour ritual and costs 2 shadow points.
Those holding the key gain the following benefits;

Once per day the Keyholder can use the key to open a doorway into the Crepuscularch's Demesne. This does not interfere with any existing doorways the Crepuscularch has opened on her own, but otherwise functions identically to any other door and the Crepuscularch alone retains the ability to dismiss such doors as a swift action on her turn. While within the Demesne, Keyholders also benefit from the effects of her Defend Property Gray Eminence.

The Shadow points spent remain invested with the key until such time as the Crepuscularch decides to deactivate it (a Swift action on her turn), at which point the points return to her the next time she refreshes her shadow pool.

KitsuneBoxing

2015-10-09, 10:37 AM

Ok, first of all, i love the class. I think it is really fun and it seems balanced (allthough with all the archetypes it is so large at this point that i'm sure it has certain minor inbalances).

I love the Crespularch. It has a really unique flavor and i love the idea.

My first thought when reading it was that there is no reason that the demesne could not be larger than it is. While it ends up being rather big at later levels of course it is still very small in the beginning, and it don't think there is a necessary balance reason for this. While i realise it cannot be enormous in the beginning it could at the very least in my opinion be 4 10 ft. squares per level, rather than 3. With switch rooms working the way it does i don't see any balance problems with this, especially if you change all the special "room gloamings" to needing a space of 4 10 ft squares, rather than 3. Anyway, that's my first thought, and i'm sticking to it.

I also think that some of the abilities that grant the crespularch knowledge of what goes on inside the demesne should be granted automatically at later levels. I especially think that the switch rooms ability of being aware of where everyone is should become constant and not require any points spent. Allthough this should possibly only happen at later levels (level 6? level 9?).

I also think that the crespularch should be able to use the secure doorway gloaming to disguise the door into her demesne as a regluar door, as well as making it invisible.

I also think that the demesne mastery gloaming should allow her to open doors anywhere within the demesne as a free action, not just within 5 feet.

I would also suggest instituting a rule that the switch rooms ability must teleport creatures directly onto a floor, removing the falling idea entirely. Maybe there should also be a rule that the creature can only be teleported a certain number of rooms away from the opening (increasing as you increase in level)? My thought here is that allthough your special warning/suggestion at the end of the document will certainly be necessary to think about i also think there's an idea to instituting rules against these things. With those rules i would maybe feel that my options as a player increases, so if i want to use my crespularch to create a mad super prison consisting of rooms within rooms and pitfalls everywhere i could do so without feeling unfair, since the rules help limit my opportunities to do so.

I also think it is necessary to put into rules how a creature would find its way out of the demesne. Do spells like "know direction" work? I assume not, but i dont know. I imagine the situation where i as a player is telerported into the demesne of an enemy crespularch. After being teleported from the doorway i find myself in a locked room, and i have no idea how it connects to the other rooms, so there is a real danger of me going in the wrong direction. I like this about it but i would also think it fun if there was opportunity for someone with survival or good perception to find its way out easier. Obviously you cant write rules for everything but something should be adressed, i feel.

Finally, i came up with some ideas for new gloamings.

Haunted Demesne: By spending 1 additional shadow point to open a doorway into her shadow demesne, the shadewright can choose to create a strange spirit within the demesne that stalks its rooms, inflicting terror and pain upon those within them. The shadewright selects any number of rooms within the demesne to be haunted. The spirit can either deal damage or inflict fear (shadewright's choice). If the spirit deals damage it deals 1d4 damage/shadewright level to the creature it affects. If the spirit inflicts fear it makes the affected creature shaken, or frightened if it is allready shaken. A creature is allowed a will save to halve the damage or avoid the condition. The spirit teleports randomly between its designated rooms. If it is in the same room as a creature it attempts to attack that creature. If there are several creatures in the same room as the spirit it chooses one creature at random. The spirit can only affect one creature per round. At level 12, the shadewright can choose to have the spirit both deal damage and inflict fear. This is a phantasm effect. The shadewright must be at least level 6 and have the shadow demesne ability to select this gloaming.

Garden: When the shadewright designs her demesne she can designate one area of it as her garden. This area must occupy at least three 10-foot cubes. The shadewright can designate any squares she wishes within her garden as difficult terrain. The garden is strange and it is hard do determine how large it is, no other rooms are visible while within the gardens, no matter how close they are. Any creature within the garden must attempt a will save or a survival check any time it attempts to move in any direction. If it fails the will save it simply moves around in a small circle, ending up in a random square adjacent to the one it started in. The shadewright can move freely through the garden without attempting any checks to do so. The shadewright can also ignore all difficult terrain within the garden. The shadewright must have the shadow demesne ability to select this gloaming.

Prison: When the shadewright designs her demesne, she can designate one area of it as her prison. This area must occupy at least three 10-foot cubes and be enclosed on all sides. Teleporting a creature into the prison using switch rooms requires two uses of grey eminence, and if the creature fails its will save it is imprisoned inside the room. The creature is bound by shackles to the wall. The DC to break out of the shackes is equal to 10 plus the shadewrights standard gloaming DC and the strength check to break the shackes has a DC equal to the standard gloaming DC. If the demesne is ended while a creature is imprisoned in the prison, the creature gains a will save to leave the demesne as would normally happen. If it fails this will save it continues being imprisoned, even though the demesne does not exist. During this time, escaping from the shackles or the demesne is impossible. When the shadewright creates a new demesne, the imprisoned creature remains within the prison. If the demesne is redesigned to remove the prison, the imprisoned creature is automatically free and teleported out of the demesne. Only one creature at a time can be imprisoned within a single prison. The shadewright must be level 12 and have the shadow demesne ability to select this gloaming.

Worlds within Worlds: By spending 1 additional shadow point to open a doorway into her shadow demesne, the shadewright can choose to create an additional doorway anywhere within the shadow demesne that leads to yet another shadow demesne, that is an exact copy of the original. In addition, when doing this she can choose to spend 2 additional shadow points to create yet another additional doorway within this additional demesne that leads to yet another additional demesne that is an exact copy of the original. She can continue doing this, spending double the amounts of shadow points for each additional demesne. Each additional demesne is only accessible from the demesne that it exists within. The shadewright cannot teleport anyone more than one demesne in with a single use of switch rooms. Also, these demesnes have the same rules as the original, when a creature is teleported into them they are teleported adjacent to the doorway. The shadewright can be no more than one demesne away from any creature to target it with an ability. These demesnes are created identical, but any changes made to them after they are created is individual. The shadewright does not gain any additional grey eminence by creating additional demesnes. The shadewright must be level 10 and have the shadow demesne ability to select this gloaming.

Yard: When the shadewright designs her demesne, she can designate one area of it as her yard. There is nothing special about this area, but it can be much larger than other areas in the demesne. When designing her demesne, the shadewright can spend one 10-foot cube worth of space to create four 10-foot cubes worth of space in her yard. The yard can not have any walls within it, and while it can have furnitures or similar things it can only have furniture that occupies a total of one 5-foot cube for every four 10-foot cubes of the yard. If the yard is placed in connection to the doorway into the demesne, the shadewright can choose to make the doorway larger than it would normally be. The shadewright can create a doorway that is 15 ft wide/30 ft high, 20 ft wide/40 ft high, 25 ft wide/50 ft high or 30 ft wide/60 ft high. The shadewright must have the shadow demesne ability to select this gloaming.

There. Quite a lot of feedback, which does mean that i really really like the archetype.

Cheers

Ethereal Gears

2015-10-09, 11:49 AM

@Skip Sandwich:

How's this for a new gloaming then?

Umbral Lodger (Su)

Once per day, the shadewright can perform a 1-hour ritual together with another willing creature to form an agreement to designate that creature as an umbral lodger. This permanently drains 2 shadow points from the shadewright's shadow reservoir, which are invested in the creation of a shadowy skeleton key. This is a black key wrought wholly from shadow-stuff, considered of masterwork quality and immune to the broken condition. As long as the shadewright's umbral lodger possesses the skeleton key, he can use it once per day as a full-round action to open a doorway into the shadewright's shadow demesne. This doorway lasts for a number of hours equal to the umbral lodger's Charisma modifier (minimum 1), and does not interfere with other doorways opened into the shadow demesne. If multiple doorways exist, creatures can freely enter or exit the shadow demesne through any of them. The shadewright can furthermore cause an umbral lodger's doorway to vanish prematurely as a swift action, as if though she had opened it herself. While his doorway remains open, the umbral lodger benefits from the defend property power granted by the shadewright's gray eminence. The shadow points invested in creating a skeleton key via this ability remain drained from the shadewright's shadow reservoir as long the key remains in the umbral lodger's possession. If the skeleton key is lost, or if the shadewright spends a swift action to dissolve her agreement with the umbral lodger, these points are regained, destroying the skeleton key. The shadewright can possess one umbral lodger at 6th level, plus an additional one at 9th, 12th, 15th and 18th level. A shadewright must be at least 6th level and possess the shadow demesne ability to learn this gloaming.

@KitsuneBoxing: Thanks for the extensive feedback. I'll try to go through it point by point.

1) I actually originally had the shadow demesne at four 10-foot cubes per class level, and the reduction to three cubes per level is not something I feel passionately about. It was one of those vague gut feeling decisions, and I certainly don't have a problem with creating more space. We'll change everything to be based around sets of four 10-foot cubes, including the minimum sized of obelisk-marked rooms.

2) Actually, while the idea is certainly for the crepuscularch to have dominion within her shadow demesne, it is also meant to be a bit umbral and vague. Thus, I don't really feel like giving them "panopticon" overview of the place at will. I could possibly imagine removing the gray eminence cost for getting a complete overview via switch rooms, perhaps via a gloaming that ultimately makes this omniscience permanent. I'm a little torn on the issue so I'll have to mull it over.

3) Secure doorways to disguise as a regular door could certainly be an idea. I may add that in, cheers!

4) I wouldn't mind granting the door opening via demesne mastery unlimited range within the demesne. It's not a super-powerful ability, so a boost won't make it over-the-top. I do suppose I've been trying to limit abilities that give the crepuscularch sort of creepy telekinetic mastery of her shadow demesne. Although it is spooky and strange, I want it to, to some extent, feel like a "normal" (albeit freaky) house, rather than some extension of her consciousness. But I think this would be a reasonable change.

5) Actually, that's just an editing error in the switch rooms ability. It used to say:

"As part of the same standard action, the crepuscularch can then teleport any one such creature to either just inside or outside the shadow demesne's doorway or, if the target is already located within the shadow demesne, to any space therein that is not directly harmful. Creatures gain a Will save (standard gloaming DC) to resist the effects of this ability."

That got lost in a flurry of edits, but I'll add it back in. Thanks for the catch! This isn't super-specific, but I think "directly harmful" is clear enough to give GMs a good guideline while providing some freedom.

6) Actually, there is no intention to allow creatures an easier way of navigating the shadow demesne. Since it would require two rounds and two failed Will saves for the shadewright just to move an unwilling enemy into a room of her choosing, I say once that happens the creature is on their own. Know direction couldn't help you much, even if the shadow demesne did have a "north". Now, perhaps one could argue that this is a balance concern for the class, but it is intentional that the shadow demesne can be tolerably labyrinthine. I wouldn't be averse to changing this for balance reasons, but I don't think it's required for the purposes of clarification.

7) These are really neat gloaming ideas. If the archetype wasn't already rather bloated, I'd probably just want to throw them all in there.

I think I like the haunt one the best, as it is simple, fun and flavorful. I'm still not sure if I want to expand the document beyond 10 pages, but if I do, I'll nab that one first.

While obviously I would want any shadow demesne to be able to contain a garden, a dungeon/prison or a courtyard, I think it might be a bit much to create unique gloamings for them when the archetype is already so long. I feel like you could just create such spaces when designing the demesne. Since we have already established that it's quite easy to get lost once locked up inside, I think that makes the "getting lost" function of the garden a bit excessive. I could possibly imagine doing a garden room, though, full of difficult terrain and vines that entangle you or similar.

The worlds within worlds one is really cool, if a bit crazy. The mechanics are elegant and streamlined though, so I don't think I would mind implementing it. I'll have to make sure it doesn't have any unforeseen implications I'm missing while gushing over it.

The yard one is nice. It's the sort of gloaming I myself would personally love to select, because it's utilitarian and simple. It's not exactly vital, but if I do expand the gloaming list I think it would make a fine addition right towards the end there.

I'm really grateful for all the notes and suggestions. We'll see exactly to which extent it's all implemented. I'm glad you like the archetype, anyway!

Cheers,
- Gears

KitsuneBoxing

2015-10-09, 01:08 PM

Since we have already established that it's quite easy to get lost once locked up inside, I think that makes the "getting lost" function of the garden a bit excessive. I could possibly imagine doing a garden room, though, full of difficult terrain and vines that entangle you or similar.

That's a fair point, and i agree. But in my opinion, the garden should instead contain a plant creature in the same way that the aquarium contrains a sea creature. Just a thought.

The worlds within worlds one is really cool, if a bit crazy. The mechanics are elegant and streamlined though, so I don't think I would mind implementing it. I'll have to make sure it doesn't have any unforeseen implications I'm missing while gushing over it.

I really don't think it has, which was what i liked about ut, allthough i could have missed something of course. If anything i would guess that its not a particularly powerful gloaming. It could be a great hiding place, i suppose, but that's hardly the most powerful thing.

Anyway, thanks for your feedback feedback. Glad you liked it.

Ethereal Gears

2015-10-09, 03:01 PM

Alright, so after mulling things over, I've come to a few conclusions. Here is the latest changelog:

1) Shadow demesne size is increased to four 10-foot cubes per class level, and the minimum size for obelisk-marked rooms is four 10-foot cubes. I just think this makes things more fun at lower levels, and I don't believe it's an unconscionable buff at later levels.

2) A creature lost within the shadow demesne can now make a Survival or Knowledge (nobility) check as a full-round action to learn the direction of the shadow demesne's exit. This feels fair, I think. It's still totally possible to trap people deviously inside the shadow demesne, but this gives creatures a fighting chance to make their way out.

3) To reiterate what I indicated above, switch rooms now reads like this:

Switch Rooms: By expending one use of her gray eminence as a standard action, the crepuscularch becomes aware of all creatures located inside her shadow demesne or within 60 feet of its doorway (if she could normally perceive them). As part of the same standard action, the crepuscularch can then teleport any one such creature to either just inside or outside the shadow demesne's doorway or, if the target is already located within the shadow demesne, to any space therein that is not directly harmful. Creatures gain a Will save (standard gloaming DC) to resist the effects of this ability.

4) I couldn't help myself, so I implemented all of KitsuneBoxing's wacky gloaming ideas, albeit with some twists of my own:

Umbral Gaol (Su)†

When the shadewright designs her shadow demesne, she can designate one area of it as an umbral gaol. This area must occupy at least four 10-foot cubes and be enclosed on all sides; it need not contain a door. Within the umbral gaol, the light level is that of complete darkness (as per darkness). To teleport a creature into the umbral gaol via the switch rooms gray eminence power takes a full-round action rather than a standard action and expends two gray eminence uses. A creature teleported into the umbral gaol is chained to the floor by umbral shackles that manifest as part of the teleportation. A creature is prone and cannot get up or move from its space while shackled (but is not considered helpless), and cannot leave the umbral gaol before its shackles are broken. This happens automatically if another creature is teleported via switch rooms into the umbral gaol, or the shackled creature can free itself. This cannot be done via Strength checks or by damaging the shackles, but the shackled creature must instead succeed on a Will save, performed as a full-round action, to break them. Once the umbral shackles are broken, the creature can leave the umbral gaol normally. When the doorway into the shadow demesne vanishes, a creature still within the umbral gaol is only moved outside it (as normal) if it succeeds on a Will save; otherwise it is stuck alone within the shadow demesne. However, the next time a new doorway is opened into the shadow demesne, such a creature gains a new Will save to be brought outside it, regardless of whether its shackles are broken or not. A shadewright must be at least 12th level and possess the shadow demesne ability to learn this gloaming.

Umbral Garden (Su)†

When the shadewright designs her shadow demesne, she can designate one area of it as her umbral garden. This area must occupy at least four 10-foot cubes. Within the umbral garden grow strange shadowy plants that bloom stark and beautiful without requiring sunlight. While inside the umbral garden, any ally of the shadewright can use a move action to coax the murky plant life into shielding it, gaining concealment until the beginning of their next turn. If a creature instead uses a standard action to coax the plants, it can gain total concealment for the same duration. The shadewright herself can spend one use of her gray eminence as a standard action while inside the umbral garden to turn a number of 5-foot squares therein equal to her class level into difficult terrain for 1 minute. By selecting this gloaming a second time, the shadewright can acquire a loyal umbral plant creature that dwells within her umbral garden. This creature has the statistics of a treesinger druid's plant companion, using the shadewright's class level as her druid level to determine its statistics. The umbral plant creature possesses the shadow creature template and fast healing 5 while inside the umbral garden, but is also restrained from moving beyond the umbral garden's space. If it does so it takes 10 points of pure umbral damage (automatically ignoring DR, energy resistance and canceling all fast healing and regeneration) each round until it dies or returns to the umbral garden. If the umbral plant creature is slain, the shadewright can start growing a new one by performing a 1-hour ritual expending 100 gp per class level in ritual components inside the umbral garden. One week after this ritual, a new umbral plant creature emerges, which can be of a different kind than the old one. A shadewright must be at least 6th level and possess the shadow demesne ability to learn this gloaming.

Umbral Overseer (Su)

While she has a doorway into her shadow demesne opened, the shadewright can spend a standard action to become aware of all creatures located inside her shadow demesne or within 60 feet of its doorway, if she could normally perceive them. Beginning at 9th level, the shadewright is constantly aware of all creatures inside her shadow demesne while she has a door into it opened, but not creatures within 60 feet of the doorway. A shadewright must be at least 6th level and possess the shadow demesne ability to learn this gloaming.

Umbral Specter (Su)

By spending 1 additional shadow point to open a doorway into her shadow demesne, the shadewright can manifest an umbral specter therein to haunt the premises. The specter remains until the doorway into the shadow demesne vanishes. The specter is not a creature, but a necromancy effect with the [shadow] descriptor that haunts any number of 20-foot cubes within the shadow demesne, as designated by the shadewright each time she designs it. Once every 1d4 rounds, the umbral specter randomly teleports to an unoccupied 5-foot square within one of its designated 20-foot cubes, and there assaults one random creature within line of sight (if there are any). Also chosen randomly, this creature is either rived by spectral claws, taking 1d6 points of negative energy damage per odd-numbered class level of the shadewright (this cannot heal undead creatures), or harrowed by umbral wails, becoming shaken for 1 round per class level. A Will save negates either of these effects. A creature already shaken by the umbral specter's umbral wail becomes frightened if harrowed by it again, but the duration of the effect is not extended. A shadewright must be at least 6th level and possess the shadow demesne ability to learn this gloaming.

Worlds Within Worlds (Su)

By spending 1 additional shadow point to open a doorway into her shadow demesne, the shadewright can choose to open a secondary nested doorway anywhere inside the shadow demesne. This nested doorway leads to a secondary nested shadow demesne, that is an exact copy of the original (although damaging or moving furnishings, et cetera, may subsequently alter this). By instead spending 2 additional shadow points when using this ability, the shadewright can also choose to open a second nested doorway within the secondary nested shadow demesne, leading in turn on to a tertiary nested shadow demesne that is also an exact copy of the original. The shadewright can continue doing this, doubling the amount of additional shadow points expended for each nested doorway she opens. Each nested shadow demesne created via this ability is only accessible from the shadow demesne that it is contained within. When using the switch rooms gray eminence power, the shadewright cannot teleport a creature further into or out of these nested shadow demesnes than to move it to just inside the doorway of one which is accessible from her current "level". The shadewright can be no more than one nested shadow demesne away from a creature to target it with an ability. The shadewright furthermore cannot gain grey eminence uses by opening nested doorways via this ability. A shadewright must be at least 9th level and possess the shadow demesne ability to learn this gloaming.

Yard (Su)†

When the shadewright designs her shadow demesne, she can designate one area of it as her yard. The yard can be much larger than other areas in the shadow demesne. When designing her shadow demesne, the shadewright can spend one 10-foot cube's worth of space to create four 10-foot cubes of space within her yard. The yard cannot have any internal partitions (but may be enclosed as normal), and while it can contain furnishings these can only occupy one 5-foot cube per four 10-foot cubes of the yard's space. If the yard contains the location within the shadow demesne to which doorways into it connect, the shadewright can open larger doorways than normal. She can choose to open a doorway that is 15 ft. wide/30 ft. high, 20 ft. wide/40 ft. high, 25 ft. wide/50 ft. high or 30 ft. wide/60 ft. high. A shadewright must possess the shadow demesne ability to learn this gloaming.

The document in the Google Drive folder has been updated to reflect all these changes. (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8e09cD4OAF3MktMQkVoQ0c4YUk/view?usp=sharing)

Well! This archetype is a whooping 12 pages now (13 if you include my pesky little author's note), but I think it's just so damned fun and flavorful that I don't mind it basically having branched out into its own alternate class. It has a ton of options, admittedly, but still only gains so many gloamings across its career that I don't think it has a power level issue due to that. I'm sure there'll be a few nitpicks and such to sort out, but overall I think (and hope!) that this is starting to look more or less finished. For every iteration of this we've completed, I've felt more and more psyched to play one of these crazy mofos. Hope y'all feel the same way!

Cheers,
- Gears

KitsuneBoxing

2015-10-09, 03:45 PM

Oh, cool!

I love the umbral garden (i've always loved the plant companions). And i really like the changes you made to umbral gaol.

It's a great archetype!

Ethereal Gears

2015-10-09, 03:54 PM

SkipSandwich

2015-10-09, 04:26 PM

Thanks!

Yes, I think it turned out rather nice, actually. Next up, a lowly Umbral Commoner who farms shadow potatoes on the vast serf-laden estates funding the very existence of the crepuscularch's magic mansion!

And then the Gloom Experts who whip the Umbral Commoners into servitude! :)

Cheers,
- Gears

I know you're joking but I've actually had ideas about designing a "Heroic Commoner/Servant" class that would basically be a skillmonkey paladin who derives supernatural powers through upholding a ritual oath of servitude.

Ethereal Gears

2015-10-09, 04:30 PM

Oh, no, Skip, it only started out as a joke! Because now I've got the name "Uncommoner" in my head, and I have to make it.

I know, It definitely sounds like too good a class name to not already have been taken, but I don't wanna start googling it and break my own heart. :P

And yeah, I know the feeling. Been working on my Civilian base class on and off for a bit now, not really getting anywhere.

Ethereal Gears

2015-10-10, 06:06 AM

In case anyone thought I was bluffing with my last post...

UFOs? Bigfoots? Cattle mutilation?!

CHUPACABRAS!

This lady has seen them all, but not necessarily of her own volition.

I give you my latest debased archetype for the shadewright:

The Uncommoner (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8e09cD4OAF3Z2JyNGxUX0VPZ0U/view?usp=sharing)

It's somewhat a WIP, but PEACH, to use this fancy new-fangled forum slang. I'm fully open to tweaking it, but I think the core concept is solid enough to show off. Hope y'all enjoy!

Cheers,
- Gears

Ethereal Gears

2015-10-11, 10:28 AM

A minor update.

Just in case anyone's read the uncommoner and been a bit flabbergasted, I've looked through it and made some tweaks. Mostly these were just to clarify the ranges and such of some unexplained phenomena, and also to put a limit on how often you can use certain unexplained phenomena each day which used to be usable any number of times as long as you had daily uses left. These changes are now reflected in the Uncommoner document available via the link in the OP.

I also amended a section of the bleak clerk archetype's bag of needful things ability to read as follows:

"Retrieving a nonmagical item costs 1 shadow point, or 0 shadow points for items worth less than 10 gp per class level (or 1 gp per class level for alchemical items)."

It's a small change, but it will prevent bleak clerks from being able to pull out endless flasks of acid before 10th level.

Cheers,
- Gears

SkipSandwich

2015-10-11, 11:55 AM

I don't think the change for alchemical items was needed. A flask of acid is a ranged touch attack with range inc of 10 ft that deals 1d6 points of damage, usable at most once every other round before 10th level with Shadow Stuff Mastery (to reduce the draw time down to 1 move action). 1d6 damage at will on a ranged touch attack is nothing to worry about. Now at-will tanglefoot bags every other round at 5th level are potentially more useful, but it's nothing that a Dirty Trick maneuver focused character couldn't replicate or a spellcaster couldn't completely outclass x times per day with a 3rd level spell, nevermind the 5th levels spells said spellcasters will have access to at 10th level when it becomes usable every round.

If you are worried about the bleak clerk 'stockpiling' a ton of consumables between engagements, it would be simpler and more balanced to say that only a single item can be drawn from the bag at a time and drawing a new item causes the previous item to vanish, which Is probably better supported by the fluff anyway since 'lost' items could potentially be 'found' at any time, it's only the Shadewright's own umbral power that sustains the shadow copy pulled from the bag. In fact, I would say that the Lost Wonder Gloaming, which currently functions like this, should actually be an exception to the 1 item at a time rule with the same caveat that it cannot be returned via Return Item.

Ethereal Gears

2015-10-11, 12:29 PM

I like that idea, actually, although I think it might be a bit too strict a nerf. In truth, the only thing we need is some rule to limit stockpiling; we don't need to cut it down to just one item at a time, I think. I've amended the text to this instead:

"If the bleak clerk has an amount of items simultaneously retrieved from her bag of needful things exceeding 3 + 1/2 her class level, older items go missing prematurely as new ones are retrieved."

With that change, I think all worries are solved, and I think it relates better to the fluff of the bag.

Cheers,
- Gears

EDIT: In other news, I am considering adding one more page of custom gloamings to the bleak clerk. I'm not positive I'll do this; it'll happen if more wacky bureaucracy/butler/spy/Terry Pratchett-esque "dark clerk"-themed abilities spring to mind.

SkipSandwich

2015-10-11, 03:01 PM

Sounds good!

Also, thought i'd mention that the text for the Shadow Stuff Mastery feat on the primary Shadewright file still references the original long draw time for the Bleak Clerk.

Ethereal Gears

2015-10-11, 03:33 PM

Thanks! Good catch. Fixing straight away.

Ethereal Gears

2015-10-11, 05:08 PM

A bit fresh off the assembly line, but here's my racial archetype for Xuldarinar's awesome alloprax (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?345917-Alloprax-Spawn-of-the-Dark-Tapestry-PEACH) race:

The World Deformer (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8e09cD4OAF3WWdaZy1oYV9zdkE/view?usp=sharing)

Cheers,
- Gears

Ethereal Gears

2015-10-13, 06:14 AM

I made it so that food and drink retrieved from a bag of needful things cannot sate hunger or slake thirst. I didn't want to go into detail about the bodily mechanics of this (ew...), but it seems fitting that shadow-touched foodstuffs sort of just turn to ashes in your mouth or whatever. I'll leave it up to individual GMs to decide, or tactfully opt out of describing, the fluff relating to this mechanic.

Cheers,
- Gears

Xuldarinar

2015-10-13, 03:58 PM

Just as one gloaming provides interaction with ki (Umbral Ki), I do believe we could use things for any or all of the following:

Arcane Pool/Psychic Pool (Magus, and Mindblade Magus)
Grit (Gunslingers)
Inspiration/Luck (Investigators, and Sleuth Investigators)
Ki pool (Ninja specifically; because shadow ninjas. Though... A karsite ninja already is feasible.. I'll have to roll one up sometime.)
Panache (Swashbucklers; because shadow pirates)

And, any other pool we can think of to that effect.

Also: Im considering making an archetype that swaps atleast antipaladin casting with a small shadow pool and doing some other tweaks. I could of course expand this to a rule set for adding a bit of shadow to a number of classes, but we'll see.

Ethereal Gears

2015-10-13, 04:16 PM

Those are certainly all viable ideas, but I'm wondering if approaching them from the perspective of creating gloamings and other shadewright material is the way to go?

I mean to say, wouldn't creating a shadeslinger archetype for the gunslinger, an umbral ninja archetype, a shadow pirate swashbuckler, etc., be a more logical and elegant way of going about it? Then instead of creating an "umbral panache" gloaming, etc., you could just give those archetypes class features that allow their various point pools to stack with a shadow reservoir.

I say this because, I don't think I would create gloamings like that except in the context of an archetype, like I did with the anchorite. And I don't think the shadewright needs a "gunslinger archetype", a "ninja archetype", etc.. For all intents and purposes, a baseline shadewright is already kind of a ninja in a lot of ways, and a deceiver shadewright is arguably one even more so. Similarly, I think shadewright archetypes focused around specific martial fighting styles (like firearms or finesse weapons) seems too narrow to tickle my creative fancy.

That being said, I would totally love to see shadow magi, shadow ninjas, etc., created by making archetypes for those classes.

Cheers,
- Gears

Xuldarinar

2015-10-13, 11:03 PM

I had an idea.. so Im following it through, rough as it may be.

SHADEWROUGHT (ARCHETYPE)
Shadewrought characters are members of conventional classes attuned to shadow. Drawing from shadow instead of, or as well as, conventional sources, shadewrought characters tow a line between that of true shadewrights, and that of other training. Unlike individuals who have secondary training as shadewrights, shadewrought characters represent the weaving of shadow with their primary training and not a distinct set of skills. Shadewrought characters possess the following class features;

Special: In order for shadewrought to be applied to a class, it must have a definitive pool from which it draws. This can be akin to spell caster's spell slots, or a definitive pool of points, such as grit or an arcane pool.

Shadow Reservoir (Su): Shadewrought characters possess a shadow reservoir instead of their conventional resource. This reservoir contains a number of shadow points as a shadewright would of the same number. Levels in multiple classes, including multiple ones bestowed the shadewrought archetype, stack for this purpose. This reservoir replaces spell slots and all point based pools available to a given class, such as an arcane pool, grit, luck, panache, or ki. A class reliant on a mental ability score other than Charisma for the purpose of bonus spells or determining the number of points in the pool replaced by this class feature is instead dependent on that ability score for the purpose of determining the number of shadow points they possess in their shadow reservoir. If the shadewrought character possesses more than one class that provides a shadow reservoir, the levels stack, and the shadewrought character uses the highest mental ability score between those that would provide him bonus shadow points to his shadow reservoir. A class that provides more than one thing replaced by shadow reservoir does not grant separate pools. A shadewrought character cannot possess an effective shadewright level for the purpose of shadow reservoir greater than their character level. This does not replace, or function as, a summoner's evolution pool Abilities normally drawing from these pools draw instead from the shadow reservoir, and abilities granted as part of the class features of these pools remain.

Shadecasting (Spellcasters only): Shadewrought characters that belong to classes that depend upon spellslots are changed the most by walking down this path. Rather than obtaining spell slots, a shadewrought character expends shadow points from their shadow reservoir to cast spells. Prepared spellcasters, when they prepare their spells, invest these points to prepare a spell, where as spontaneous spellcasters can expend this on the fly. To cast a spell, one must expend a single shadow point from one's shadow reservoir. For the purpose of metamagic feats, a character must expend an additional number of points equal to the level increase required by the feat. Spells are learned as normal for the class, and spells are otherwise cast as normal. If another class would advance spellcasting, it also will advance the shadewrought character's shadow reservoir. This alters spellcasting, but can be applied after any archetype that alters or replaces spellcasting in a class, but not if the alteration specifically reduces the number of spells per day the character has access to. This also functions with an alchemist's extracts and other similarly structured class features.

Gloaming Access: At 3rd level, a shadewrought character acquires the gloaming class feature. Unlike true shadewrights, a shadewrought character does not obtain gloamings as part of natural progression, but must instead must acquire the Extra Gloaming feat to obtain gloamings. Classes that provide bonus feats may choose to take Extra Gloaming as a bonus feat normally granted. If the shadewrought character's shadow reservoir is based on an ability score other than Charisma, then so too are the shadewrought's gloamings. If the shadewrought character as levels in multiple classes providing this feature, they stack for the purpose of granting access, and the shadewrought character uses the highest mental ability score between those that would be used by each class.

Unless I am mistaken, of course:

Adept
Antipaladin
Arcanist
Bard
Bloodrager
Cleric
Druid
Gunslinger
Hunter
Inquisitor
Investigator
Magus
Medium
Mesmerist
Monk
Ninja
Occultist
Oracle
Paladin
Psychic
Ranger
Shaman
Skald
Sorcerer
Spiritualist
Summoner
Swashbuckler
Unchained Monk
Warpriest
Witch
Wizard

Ethereal Gears

2015-10-14, 03:58 AM

Cool stuff!

I may have to re-check it to make there's nothing in the wording that needs tidying up, but I think the shadewrought archetype looks really good. I've always liked the idea of archetypes that can be applied to any class, a la the archetype packages released by SGG (now RGG) back before (I think) the Advanced Players' Guide was even out.

Man, this does kind of make me want to play a shadewrought hexcrafter magus...

I'm thinking, in order for this to be appealing to classes like inquisitor, magus, hunter, etc., it should be possible to base your shadow reservoir on Int or Wis instead of Charisma? I mean, otherwise you're stuck being Cha-based with 2 + Int skill ranks per level, or stuck being Cha-based but with Wis-based daily uses of your teamwork feat class feature, etc.

Cheers,
- Gears

Xuldarinar

2015-10-14, 08:52 AM

Ethereal Gears

2015-10-14, 08:59 AM

Xuldarinar

2015-10-14, 09:23 AM

Hmm. That's a good question. I think you could just say that if your spellcasting or any point pool granted by your original class is based on an ability score other than Charisma, the shadow reservoir and the gloaming saving throw DCs may be based on this ability score as well, rather than Charisma.

Cheers,
- Gears

Inserted text to both Shadow Reservoir and Gloaming Access. I rooted it in Bonus Spells and things that determine the size of the replaced pools.

Edit: I am considering something. Theres casting, but nothing to interact with the Blade gloamings. I could do something for that, but I'd need to list class features it interacts with explicitly, come up with some sort of criteria that covers things, or create an ability that amounts to: Spend 1 shadow point as part of a ritual that takes (x amount of time) and you can apply the effects of a single 'blade gloaming' of your choice to melee attacks for (y amount of time). Enemies are entitled to a will save.

Ethereal Gears

2015-10-14, 09:45 AM

Xuldarinar

2015-10-14, 09:54 AM

That sounds perfect. As I said, I really like this initiative. Shadow pirates and umbral gunslingers ho! Can you literally draw faster than your own shadow when you share your spot in the initiative order? Who knows! :P

In other news, this now exists:

The Nobody Archetype (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8e09cD4OAF3dTJEOWpSMTBYd00/view?usp=sharing)

It's basically a spooky shadewright who slowly but surely stops existing in some macabre, umbral fashion, and can cause the same to temporarily happen to her foes in the process. Enjoy!

People might notice it uses the old iconic originally used for the uncommoner. Since I changed the uncommoner's picture but I thought this one seemed so appropriate for the nobody's theme, I decided to put it in instead of hunt down a new pic! :)

Cheers,
- Gears
I can't be the only one who is thinking Kingdom Hearts right now.
What a pleasant surprise. I've approached some of those aspects before, even thought to create a class that revolved on the concept, but I could never think of how to get it to work. Seems you've gotten it down pretty solidly with the archetype. At a glance it looks good, but i'll poke around, see if I can't find some critical flaw in its design.

Ethereal Gears

2015-10-14, 10:13 AM

Xuldarinar

2015-10-14, 11:47 AM

Thanks! Yeah, I've poked around with similar design ideas when creating bloodline powers for my blood scion class (https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B8e09cD4OAF3fmFieWRrNzBJZEFPVXVqX1p yZHBVbVM1blVLU0Y0bEpCenZ4MEpRbXR4Rlk&usp=sharing). I was also partly inspired by your Lovecraftian horror class, Xuldarinar, (now I've forgotten the name), that I believe is yet to be finished? I just remember it too lost its creature type and alignment at some point. This archetype is more heavily focused on literally losing more and more parts of what makes them a person, I suppose, up to gaining crazy stuff like being able to take the missing essence gloaming at 15th level. I feel a lot more certain about this archetype than I did the uncommoner or world deformer. It feels securely balanced. But it is fresh off the assembly line, and there's always the possibility I've missed one or more crucial things. It's been known to happen in the past. :P

Cheers,
- Gears

Im glad it provided some inspiration. I do need to work on it, but I keep getting some serious writer's block on it. When I finish it, if I do, I hope it is suitable. It may be some time before it is, however.

Also, an observation of my archetype: Shadewrights technically qualify, but it replaces the Shadow Reservoir with a Shadow Reservoir, and grants them access to gloamings at the same level they gain access to gloamings. So.. A shadewrought shadewright is awfully redundant.

Ethereal Gears

2015-10-14, 02:25 PM

Yeah I know how it is. I'm still stuck on making my "shadewright archetype that gets a spooky lantern that can shed light, darkness and shadow" work. The concept is solid, but thus far the mechanics feel very lackluster.

Also, yeah, I hadn't thought of that. Shadewrought shadewrights. Yo dawg. I heard you like shadewrights so I put some shadewrights on your shadewrights so you can shadewright while shadewrighting. :)

EDIT: In other news, since I keep fiddling with all these archetypes, tweaking things here and there when I come up with something that needs improvement, the uncommoner's uncanny allies ability now reads like this:

Uncanny Allies (Ex): By expending one use of her unexplained phenomena, the uncommoner can suddenly find herself in the midst of a small crowd of inscrutable, cloaked figures that bear an uncanny resemblance to herself. For 1 round per class level, the uncommoner gains the troop subtype. She acquires all the traits of this subtype, except her troop only occupies a number of 5-foot squares equal to her Charisma modifier; the troop's area is completely shapeable, but all its component squares must remain contiguous. The uncommoner also doesn't gain immunity to spells and effects that target a specific number of creatures, but does gain a bonus on saves against them equal to 1/2 her class level. Once this ability's duration elapses, the strange figures vanish mysteriously, leaving behind no items or other tokens of their existence. This also happens if the uncommoner is reduced to 0 or fewer hit points, which instantly ends all effects of this ability. While she has the troop subtype, the uncommoner adds a morale bonus equal to 1/2 her class level on attack rolls made with her troop attack. If the uncommoner is wielding a melee weapon while using this ability, the cloaked figures wield identical ones, and her troop attack gains the weapon's damage type (slashing, etc.), as well as its enhancement bonuses and enhancements (flaming, etc.). If the weapon is made of a special material, the troop attack also counts as an attack made with such a weapon for all relevant effects. This unexplained phenomenon can happen to the uncommoner a number of times per day equal to her Charisma modifier. The uncommoner must be at least 5th level to use this unexplained phenomenon.

I think it feels both more balanced, as well as more flavorful and fun, this way. I imagine the little uncanny bastards pushing you to the front of the troop when a single-target spell is in the offing. :)

Ethereal Gears

2015-10-14, 06:20 PM

So this seems somewhat relevant. I found this old "in-world" handbook to the Shadow Plane I wrote for my campaign setting, detailing how the Shadow Plan works in our campaign. It does include some references to places and people within the campaign setting that will make no sense to people unfamiliar with it, but these are few and far between and understanding them is not necessary to grasp the bulk of the document's contents. I've posted the whole thing in the spoiler below if anyone's interested. This is certainly the stuff that's informed a lot of the shadewright's fluff in my mind.

The Amorartine Adventuring Guild's Handbook to the Shadow Plane

Written by Dan Sandh and Lakshmir Ohanzee-Panjab

Aside from codified spells, there are many means of transporting oneself from what planar theorists call the Prime Material Plane (the reality we inhabit) and its dark twin the Shadow Plane. Such travel is never without its hazards, and is deserving of a volume of its own in order to discuss its intricacies in sufficient detail. Therefore, this guide will deal with adventuring opportunities and pitfalls with the assumption that the reader has already established a relatively reliable means of entering the Shadow Plane and, more importantly, getting back home from there in a safe and timely fashion. For information about rituals and tricks to slip between our two worlds, please reference the exhaustive yet accessible Gateways of the Inner Planes by Crone Emeritus Zotheca Darklantern, published by the Academy of Witchery and the Forbidden Arts in Coscara, Uath Leng.

This text will take the form of a simple, concise list of bullet points to help new adventurers begin to gain a grasp of the basic dynamics, both cultural and natural, of the Shadow Plane. This handbook should not be viewed as an all-inclusive explanation of the myriad enigmas and mysteries that comprise the realm of Shadow. At best it should be able to aid adventurers in avoiding committing the more elementary sorts of mistakes and giving them a general sense of what manner of environments and denizens to expect in this realm. In many ways the Shadow Plane is not so different from our own world, and to an Amorartine citizen many parts of it may well feel more familiar and "like home" than some of the more outré locales of our own Prime Material Plane. Yet this similarity can be deceptive, like a caterpillar camouflaged to bear the visage of a poisonous snake. It is the authors' ambition and hope that this text will help reveal the caterpillar for what it really is and, more importantly, to ward against cunning serpents attempting to reverse the trick. For a more in-depth analysis of the culture and history of Shadow and its interactions with our world throughout the millennia, Nythuan Carcoi's Of Enslaved Gods and Worlds Unending: A Trans-Planar History of Colossia, Muropis and the Taphionic Isles is a fine starting point containing many valuable references to sources of deeper knowledge on the subject. Otherwise, Lakshmir Ohanzee-Panjab's own travelogue Shadow Walk with Me, detailing the lengthy conjoined honeymoon and research expedition she undertook in the company of her husband Rodrik also provides a more personal but still arguably insightful view of the general ambiance of the plane. Now, without further ado, the handbook itself:

• The first thing a traveler from Prime Material who sets foot upon Shadow will notice is the desolation. A world possibly as large or even larger than our own, Shadow is nevertheless far more empty. There are enormous patches of sand wastes, sprawling ruins larger than any of the inhabited settlements, seemingly grown out of the landscape itself, perhaps never lived in or even truly built. There is only one known ocean, which laps against the Poignant Shores to the south. Cardinal directions are fickle on Shadow, but the south is constant. The farther south one moves, the greater become the empty spaces. Along the Poignant Shores are only scattered fishermen's huts and strange, isolated villages. It corresponds roughly to the northern expanses of Colossia, the Vertebrae Isles and northern Deshret. This is a dangerous terrain, full of roaming undead of unimaginable might and worse and less-documented horrors besides. Otherwise there are great swathes of stark pine barrens, the trees dark sentinels growing spitefully out of the sandy soil. Very few hills, and only a handful of known mountain ranges, the most prominent being the Foreboding Peaks in the far northwest which shield the peaceful kayal lands from the realms of the evil kytons. There are deep dark lakes of cool water inhabited by unwholesome creatures, and in the middle of the inhabited lands there is the legend-shrouded Inland Sea with its myriad archipelagoes. Three moons cycle through the eternally twilit sky of Shadow, called the Lover, the Acquaintance and the Stranger. These are worshipped by some of the more primitive natives, and it is a common saying about Shadow that these are the only real social relations that exist here. This is an exaggeration of course, but it is true that Shadow's denizens do not tend to make many friends or enemies. Oblivion is preferable to hatred, and there are stories of whole villages coming together to forget one of their number out of existence altogether as punishment for some unforgiveable crime. People forget things easily on Shadow, but they rarely forgive.

Things that grow on Shadow grow by moonlight and do not require the sun, and thirsty roots of pale or inky plants are fed by frequent bouts of heavy rain from pitch black clouds. There is never any thunder or lightning except on special occasions. Nothing on Shadow is accidental, not even the weather. Rain only happens to mark a sad occasion, a wild wind only blows to foretell of some calamitous event. Luckily for the native farmers, such occurrences are never few or far between. Shadow contains many labyrinths, and great enclosures in the barren places where animals are kept not quite domesticated, but eerily cordoned off and enclosed as if by quiet consent. Minotaurs are quite fecund here, though they are morose and philosophical when compared to their hot-blooded counterparts on Prime Material. Nothing ever moves in a flock or herd on Shadow. Horses might saunter in cliques across vast plains of grayish-blue grass, but they keep a reserved distance and respect one another's personal space. Crows only fly in murders when they have been contracted by destiny to serve as an omen. There are plenty of insects, but no bees or other jolly communal creatures. The moths have long since outfought the butterflies for dominion in this realm. We have no busy ants, only gnawing, vicious termites. Sometimes there is a solitary wasp, drinking tears from the eyes of sleepers.

• The most populous race on Shadow are the kayal, called fetchlings by the first Prime Material wizards who captured and enslaved them, forcing the poor wretches to run errands for them across the Planes. Such practices have long since been abandoned with a few tragic exceptions, and there are now kayal settlements that have friendly trade relations with some of Prime Material's more magically savvy nations, our own home city of Amorarte not being the least of these. The kayal inhabit great cities, mostly empty, close-knit towns with dark secrets and isolated villages vary of strangers. There are no nations, no kings or dukes; every man and woman and child is a tiny tyrant in its own life, and warfare or territorial squabbles are rare. Food and water is easy to come by but not much appreciated or cared for. There are no real seasons and people have nothing to fear from volcanoes or earthquakes. There is the occasional flood, but they are rarely a threat. Melancholy is a far more serious hazard, as is boredom in the more remote regions.Little is built on Shadow; a kayal couple will often find the house they end up living and dying in while taking a stroll through an abandoned field, or they will happen upon it hidden away in a wood where no one ever goes. Sometimes towns will be built by scavenging from the ever-present Ruins. It is deeply ingrained in kayal culture, for all it varies just as much as that of humans on the Material Plane, never to question the existence of the Ruins. It is considered impolite. There is also an almost pathological lack of interest in researching how the kayal themselves first came to Shadow, for it is well-known they were originally Prime Material humans who somehow got stranded in this other world and altered to adapt to its sensibilities. It is widely believed the shriveled wayang who live in the Performing Isles amid the Inland Sea know exactly the secret origin of their taller kayal brethren. Out of respect for tradition, however, they have never divulged this information to anyone.

Possibly, with increased interchange between Prime Material and Shadow, more inquisitive and less polite denizens of the hot-blooded Blazing World (as many Shadow-dwellers call Prime Material) will one day unearth this secret and greatly scandalize the larger kayal community. Despite having barely any polities larger than a city, the kayal are nevertheless, with a few exceptions, all members of the Great Global Conspiracy, an open secret society which spans much of the explored lands of Shadow and acts as a sort of clandestine international trade network and diplomatic organ, mostly working to solve issues the traditionally isolationist kayal city-states and hamlet-empires cannot tackle on their own. The Conspiracy is ostensibly run by a secretive cabal of civic-minded kayal, wayang and other umbral beings working to ensure the safety of kayalkind and its allies both from internal threats (such as rampaging undead, the dreadful kytons and vicious umbral dragons) and from possible foes emerging out of the Blazing World. This committee, dubbed the Linchpin Group, is the subject of many legends, rumors and outright lies.

• Religion is a rare delicacy on Shadow, whose natives tend to view the garish smorgasbord of gods, demigods, spirits, outsiders and monsters which the peoples of the Blazing World seem to leap at the chance of worshiping with such ferocity with at least a soupcon of distaste and suspicion. There is only a single god on the Shadow Plane, and unlike those worshipped on Prime Material he is manifest in the flesh in this realm. Chained up in an alcove in a forbidden cathedral hidden somewhere in the Eastern Pine Barrens the Alcove God, also called the Nameless One, the Reflecting God and the Lord of Diffuse Sorrows, writhes and whimpers. He worships all the mortals of Shadow, or so it is said, and people who find his hidden cathedral and manage to brave the various traps and strange guardians around it can gain great boons by beating or smiting or cursing him. It is said (though wildly disputed by various scholars) that the Alcove God was once the prince of the kytons, the twisted pain-devils who dwell in the Beneathlands beyond the Foreboding Peaks. One of the reasons why the Great Global Conspiracy and kayalkind at large is always at risk from kyton attacks is, according to these theories, because those evil fiends desperately want to free their god so that he can be worshipped instead of worship, and that then the kytons can rule all of Shadow. The story of how the Alcove God came to be chained up is full of holes and contradictions, and there are many who believe that his constant prayers and obeisance towards the people of Shadow are not the result of some terrible curse woven into the very stones of his cathedral but are in fact made out of his own free will, and that he loves his chains and would cease to be without them.

Otherwise there is of course the recondite philosophy of the Dissolution, practiced by the abstruse wayang and by some kayal and other Shadow denizens as well. Primitive kayal tribes, umbral gnolls and other bestial beings that dwell on the blasted heaths and in the haunted hills worship the Three Moons, and countless orders of shadowdancers are fascinated with the undead shades that serve as their companions in a fashion that often borders on veneration. Faith is not highly prized on Shadow, as lies, riddles and confusion tend to be seen as more virtuous than trust, belief or enlightenment. A common saying among the kayal of Odiarte, the Shadow twin of our own great city Amorarte, is that "Faith is wasted on things that are true; only the incredible is worth believing in". Whether this is just a nonsensical play on words or if it conveys some deeper truth about the psyche of the average Shadow denizen the reader will have to decide for herself. Secret societies of all stripes abound on Shadow, cults and sects and clandestine siblinghoods. They are rarely if ever devoted to anything overtly divine, but tend instead to focus on puzzles and games, forbidden books and secret songs that drive their listeners mad. In one small burgh in the foothills of the Foreboding Mountains there is a seemingly bottomless well. Generation after generation, the citizens keep sending daring climbers down to seek the hypothetical floor of this strange shaft, made out of solidly mortared yellow brick. Various ludicrous devices of no apparent practical use keep being found, embedded in the walls or resting in little niches and horizontal side tunnels along the main shaft. The people of the burgh cherish these trinkets in an almost religious fashion, and they have begun to be used as a major currency in the region. There is an abandoned church in Odiarte where, once every decade, a faceless fiend will dance for his supper and sell scandalous secrets about angels and archons and agathions and azatas to the highest bidder. This event always draws enormous crowds from all over, much like a pilgrimage.

• Culture is distinct from society on Shadow to a large extent, as of the latter there is infinitely less than of the former. Since this handbook assumes the reader will find a comparatively non-fatal entry point from Prime Material, and since such points exist almost wholly within those parts of the plane inhabited and controlled by kayalkind and its allies, it seems appropriate to discuss the mores and customs of fetchlings rather than those of Shadow's more exotic dwellers. At any rate fetchling culture is hegemonic, and by and large what is true for the shadowmen is also true for the rest of this reality, to the extent that truth enters into it. Many aspects of kayal culture revolve around metaphysical facts woven into the very fabric of the plane. It might seem strange to outsiders that Shadow-dweller by and large do not ascribe these to the workings of gods or other supernatural entities, but it simply is not in their nature to come to such elaborate conclusions about existence. Instead, these facts are taken at face value, much the same way as a man will not wonder why he has to bend down in order to tie his shoes or lick his lips when they are dry.

• Odd numbers are lucky on Shadow. The fewer even-numbered collections of objects, persons and places one surrounds oneself with, the less likely one is to run afoul of awful accidents.

• Coincidences do not exist. Everything that happens on Shadow happens for a reason, though it is a rarity among kayalkind to wonder too much about these reasons. They are not dictated by the Moons or the will of the Alcove God; they are merely the customs of existence. Storms portend catastrophes, rain ushers in sadness, children are born malformed as a sign of some deeper moral evil in society. Other things are more obscure. Why do people never remember their birthdays? Why does everyone see the same nondescript woman's face at least once every year when they dream? Why does this frighten them so? Why is no one except the wayang ticklish? Why is there a universal longing after a bright red cottage on a white sandy beach, even among desert tribes that have never even heard of the ocean? These are questions many denizens of Shadow may well ask themselves, but few would hope to ever gain an answer.

• We love riddles on Shadow. We are less thrilled about answers. Confusion is almost universally considered pleasurable, and rarely does a lack of understanding perturb people. Some things have to be known, it is true, and hard-won and forbidden knowledge is indeed a prized commodity; yet for every ounce of knowing one acquires, it is recommended to attain and equal amount of ignorance to keep one's vital fluids and general state of mental and physical well-being in balance.

• Laughter is both beautiful and horrible. No man or woman would ever scandalize themselves so utterly as to laugh in public, at least not in the civilized lands. Children laugh without knowing and it is an embarrassment. The only proper avenue for laughter should be behind closed doors between consenting adults. The black seagulls on Shadow have no voice.

• Shadows do not follow their owners but live their own secret lives. People who die on Shadow commonly rise as undead, and most frequently as shadows themselves. There are magicians here who can tame shadows and work marvelous conjurations and summonings with their aid. If you travel from Prime Material to Shadow and then back again, you may find your shadow sullen and uncooperative for months to come afterwards. It will have made countless new interesting acquaintances and might even have fallen in love. It has dwelt in the realm that originally birthed it, and some shadows will forever resent their owners for having shown them such a paradise and then yanked them away from it. Dwell on this.

• Mirrors often work strangely on Shadow. They can show erroneous reflections or only a black and blood-freezing void. Sometimes people become trapped in them, and it is rumored they journey to some world that is as strange to Shadow as Shadow is to Prime Material. It's been unanimously decided upon the by Great Global Conspiracy that this matter does not warrant further looking into and that questions about it should be met with harsh, briskly hushed-up punishments of various kinds.

• Almost everyone on Shadow who is not undead or evil loves children. The wayang especially adore putting up great mystical performances for visiting youngsters from Prime Material, shadow puppetry and shadowworks (like fireworks but the other way around) and sundry frightening and thrilling games and capers. This is in stark contrast to their otherwise somber worldview and mode of life. Kayal couples rarely manage to procreate naturally, but orphans are often found inexplicably left on doorsteps or heard wailing desolately out in the woods or in the middle of a lifeless saltpan. Sometimes entire abandoned mansions are found in remote and hostile mountain regions, populated by entire clans of children who have made up their own strange societies. They all speak Aklo, which is the secret language of children on Shadow, forgotten upon reaching adulthood. It is not known whether it was here or on Prime Material that tongue was first birthed. The riddle of how and why children come to be on Shadow at all is yet another issue the Great Global Conspiracy has deemed it highly immoral to dwell on, and citizens within its hegemony are strongly advised to desist from such on pain of being disappeared or reprogrammed or similar. This is generally considered only sensible as an approach by the public at large.

• Beware the Man in the Corner of the Room. He exists in almost every building in the whole of the plane, with exceptions being the Inland Unpire, the kyton lands and the more remote and undead-infested regions. You can only see him out of the corner of your eye. Try to ignore him and don't look at him. Secret, horrible things happen to those who stare at him directly or even glimpse him for too long. A DC 10 Autohypnosis check is sufficient to ignore his presence for the duration of one's stay in any particular building. Is he a kyton lord of ineffable power? A strange and awful messenger of the Alcove God? Something even odder still? No one knows, and accounts of his hastily glimpsed appearance wary wildly, usually only agreeing on a general state of extreme physical mutilation. The Linchpin Group have reported that they are undertaking inquiries regarding the Man, and that they might have to start disappearing people who happen to see him.

• One thing has gone mostly unmentioned in the bullet points above, and for good reason too, because it is a subject matter many kayal feel uneasy about. The Shadow Plane is a place of intrigue and obfuscation, charm and darkness, solemnity and poise. As mentioned earlier, science as understood by Blazing Worlders is typically not well-received here. Nor is the idea of hierarchies and rulership, of republics and kingdoms and magistrates. Yet there is at least one glaring exception to these axioms of Shadow, and it is a power that not only flouts the traditions of our umbral world, but also one which lies outside of the controlling influence of the Great Global Conspiracy. The Inland Unpire, occupying the shores of the Great Inland Sea and the majority of the islands nestled therein, is an anomaly among kayalkind and upon the face of Shadow at large. Around and within the still indigo waters of the Inland Sea, this so-called empire has raised up a great many towering and desolate cities, populated by the descendants of conquest-hungry kayal tribes drawn from the surrounding Razor Plains. The Inlanders serve as protectors of the wayang of the Performing Isles, and also possess a strange and suspect relationship with that most blazing of Blazing World polities, the United Rajes of Cheslong. Inlanders are irreligious as a rule, and spurn much of the mysticism which other Shadow-dwellers embrace in lieu of proper faith. They are instead devoted to the scientific study of what they call the Triune Lunar Anomaly, another name for our three sacred moons.

Known for conducting strange experiments in classified locales scattered on the multifarious Inland archipelagoes, and for being ruled by the reclusive Unperor, the dwellers of the scattered settlements of the Unpire are queer creatures indeed. They have formed paladin orders dedicated to unraveling the riddle of the Anomaly, the exact nature of which is not entirely clear. They are convinced that the triple moons hold the key to understanding and decoding the manifest enigma that is Shadow, and that once they have done so they will be able to eradicate the kytons and the malicious undead from our Plane and in so doing become its rightful rulers. The Alcove God they also believe to be connected to our lunar triplets, and they furthermore conjecture that the Conspiracy is secretly behind the Alcove God's creation. According to Unpirical evidence-princelings, our world should have but one moon, just like Prime Material, and also a pitch-black anti-sun which somehow has gone missing. Again, this hypothetical solar misplacement is firmly blamed on the Conspiracy, with which the Unpire wages a silent war of social snubbing, political cartoons, sanctions against luxury imports and the occasional mass poisoning. Many kayal, however, including half of this handbook's authors, have grown up in the Inland region and see no difficulty whatsoever with reconciling the Unpire's exciting lust after verities and revelations with the more withdrawn and piously detached attitudes towards truth common among the kayal majority within the Conspiracy. While it is doubtful whether all the wild theories the scientific elite within the Unpire nurture will turn out to contain any truths, it is also appreciably true that to some extent perhaps kayalkind at large has been too comfortable with its secrets, and certain stones might be worth not leaving unturned, for the good of the race and for the good of Shadow as a whole. It is worthy to note that a majority of Shadow's murderous umbral dragons dwell either in the Foreboding Peaks or among the ill-documented islands of the Inland Sea, and while it cannot be proven these awful brutes are in cahoots with the bull-headed extremists that rule the Inland Unpire, it is a highly probable conjecture and worth investigating! There! Take that!

• Shadow cuisine is rather dull. Though there is a small town on the outskirts of the Wending forest that specializes in edible literature; deep-fried diaries, sautéed sonnets, broiled ballads and even the odd novel noisette. This place comes highly recommended, for all the settlement lacks a name and instructions on how to get there are impossible to put to paper. If you do find it, though, make sure not to miss the adjectival wine. It is, allegedly, beyond description.

Xuldarinar

2015-10-15, 02:14 AM

I have to share something I've noted while looking over the different archetypes. While the flavor of the class and its archetypes are great for shadow in of themselves, I have found they also make for fantastic characters tied to elements of the dark tapestry.

For instance; the Night Gardener for a "druid" devoted to Shub-Niggurath.

On another note; I do hope you get some ideas for the Dark Lantern. If i get any ideas, I'll be sure to throw you something. Though in the mean time, heres something that might give some ideas. (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20041001a&page=2)

Ethereal Gears

2015-10-15, 09:38 AM

Yeah, the Master of Radiance looks cool. Man, sometimes when I look at all these wacky 3.5 prestige classes I kind of feel bad I didn't start playing until Pathfinder was already out and so leapt onto that bandwagon straight away. I think overall I prefer Paizo's approach of creating archetypes and flexibility within the base classes, but there is something seductive about cool multiclassing options.

I think you're especially right about the night gardener. That's actually a really cool idea for a Shubby-Dubby druid! I've been thinking of maybe creating a few extra gloamings for it; sometimes when I look at it I'm unsure about its power level. I'm definitely not sure though; I sometimes start fretting about these things needlessly. Ideally all archetypes should be equally balanced, but I daresay there will always be a few discrepancies. No one's touching the dark beguiler and dusk mage in terms of power level, but that's fine, I think.

Obviously, the anchorite could also be profitably refluffed to have a Dark Tapestry feel, and I daresay there's something in there for the umbramorph (I will get to giving you more gloamings one day! :P), twilight mystic, and quacksalver as well. The horrorist goes without saying, I'd say, and the uncommoner could possibly be really fun to play as a sort of classic bewildered Lovecraft protagonist, pursued by eldritch forces beyond her understanding.

Cheers,
- Gears

Xuldarinar

2015-10-15, 11:03 AM

Mechanically the night gardener fills an interesting niche in that their focus is on a damage over time effect rather than a direct and instantaneous damaging effect.

Between its class features and its gloamings, it feels fairly solid. If we want to approach it as an umbral druid, which it is in a sense, then there isn't much we are missing that the druid possesses. Really the only primary mechanic I can think of we don't fill at all for is Wild Shape, and I don't think theres a loss there.

On the snub-niggurath worshiping night gardener: I really wish there was a way for aberration animal companions. Sure, being able to add tentacles to something helps (Evolved Companion), and there are plant companions (though accessible to 1 archetype), but I'd love to be able to have at a sufficiently high level a dark young of shub as a companion, perhaps starting with a moit of shub.

Ethereal Gears

2015-10-15, 12:36 PM

Yeah I hear you. Companions of types other than animal are always available via strange and flavor-wise very niche and cumbersome ways. Like, you can either be a druid who has to be an elf, or you can be a summoner summoning an outsider and then "pretend" it's a dragon or an aberration or a magical beast or whatever. There really ought to be more options for druids, rangers and hunters to get other cool creature types (at a cost of reducing other class features, of course). It's also BS when people refer you to leadership to get a monstrous cohort because a) that feat is really problematic for all kinds of other reasons and b) you want something integral to your class that scales as you level and gains feats and tricks and evolutions and such which you get to pick out, not just a prefab monster you have to change out when its CR no longer matches the APL.
Anyway, that rant aside, I think you're right about the night gardener. I looked through it again, and I remember now that I did actually make its gloamings intentionally quite powerful to compensate for the fact that, while shadow splinter may be equal to shade blade + shade strike as a trade, dark verdure is hardly comparable to call shadows in terms of power level. I did buff the briar armor's armor bonus to improve by +2 at 6th, 12th and 18th level rather than +1, though. That seemed really paltry. But yeah, call the umbral wilds, hedge maze, splinter husk and splinter swarm are all potentially very good abilities, so I daresay it's fine.

Also, in re weirdo companions, at least the night gardener can nab a little shadow animal familiar at 3rd level and then trade it out for a shadow tyrannosaurus or shadow tiger at 9th level, at the low-low cost of only a pair of gloamings. In order to create a truly Shub-focused night gardener, you'd have to create some kind of new series of gloamings, to get an AC that has the aberration creature type, and then a second gloaming to grant it a small evo pool (maybe Cha mod or something, and you could spend 2 shadow points via a 1-hour ritual ritual to change its evos out for 24 hours, or such).

Also, I've actually started working on the shadebright (new name for the lantern archetype), and I think it's starting to look pretty good. I'll post it here as soon as I feel finished.

Cheers,
- Gears

EDIT: In other news, the nobody lost access to the umbral usurpation gloaming it had cribbed off the mimeomancer, but gained access to the following new gloamings: disappear forever, missing number, missing presence and unobtrusive. I also gave them access to a slightly altered version of the world deformer's unrealize gloaming. Lastly, the missing visage power now allows a Will save instead of an Int check to remember the nobody's face. Seemed more fair. The updated version is available via the Google Drive link in the OP, as per usual.

Xuldarinar

2015-10-15, 03:43 PM

VOIDWRIGHT (SHADEWRIGHT)
Drawn from the bitter darkness lying between the stars, rather than the shadows of the material's reflection, voidwrights are shapers of madness, servants of the tapestry, and seekers of oblivion. Voidwrights acquire the following class features.

Drawn from the Void: Rather than calling from shadow, a voidwright draws from the tapestry. As a result, a number of changes are made from their abilities in how they manifest;

Creatures called or created through the use of a class feature, be it Call Shadows, a Gloaming, or a component provided by an archetype, do not acquire the shadow creature template. In all instances they would acquire such a template, creatures called take on the alien template instead. If the Alien template is not available, the advanced template can be applied instead. All creatures called or created by a voidwright's class features take on the aberration type, unless their type is normally ooze or outsider, in which case they retain their original type.
Abilities that relate to travel to and from the shadowplane instead are used to cross the gap between worlds; functioning as Interplanetary teleport. If this ability comes from a gloaming, it requires 18th level.
All references to the Shadow Plane are changed to that of the Dark Tapestry; be it the place or a powerful being that is from the tapestry such as an Outer God or a Great Old One. Generally this has no game impact, but there are cases that there is a mechanical difference.

Although this alters an assortment of the shadewright's abilities, the voidwright archetype is comparable with all other shadewright archetypes.

A shot in the dark on something. Is it perfect? No, but... I felt like doing it. It is a start anyways.

Ethereal Gears

2015-10-15, 04:01 PM

I like it, although the change to Shadow Plane-related travel abilities will make a few archetype abilities a bit wonky. Like, a 12th-level crepuscularch can open a doorway to the Shadow Plane via a gloaming, and she'd now lose this option, instead being able to take it at 18th level, when the doorway would (presumably) transport creatures as per interplanetary teleport. I'm not necessarily saying that's bad or imbalanced, but it could be a concern, and in some cases it may require quite a bit of GM adjudication. Then again, I play with an extremely harmonious, empathetic home group where we all know each other well and try to resolve rules debates as amicably as possible, so I'm usually not averse to creating fairly interpretation-heavy abilities now and again, even though I imagine in certain groups those would cause a lot of arguments and headaches.

The only other thing that struck me was that I feel like there has to be some more fun and fitting template to give creatures than the advanced creature template, to replace the shadow creature template. I can't think of one off the top of my head, so I could be wrong, but it feels worth looking into.

Otherwise, great initiative!

Cheers,
- Gears

EDIT: By the way, of relevance to this: in the latest iteration of the world deformer archetype, when they grant animated objects and plants the shadow creature template (which I by the way clarified they can do despite that template normally only being applicable to living creatures), they change their creature type to aberration rather than outsider. Yay being more in tune with alloprax' flavor! :)

Xuldarinar

2015-10-15, 04:18 PM

As I said, it is a start, and of course there are some issues to consider. I think it works out all in all in that case, but I could be wrong, and there are bound to be cases that problems do arise that don't have easy/obvious solutions.

Suddenly I feel like opening a door to Carcosa, kicking people through it, and promptly closing the door.

Now, as far as the more fitting template, there is. The alien template, which is 3rd party and found in Beyond the Void. I think it is wonderful. It is along the lines of the fiendish and celestial templates, and does turn a creature into an aberration. My reasoning for the advanced template, however, is not only accessibility but also it is from the Dark Tapestry Subdomain's ability "It came from beyond":

Once per day, when you cast a summoning spell, any one creature you summon is more powerful than normal. The creature gains the advanced creature simple template. If you summon more than one creature with a spell, only one of the summoned creatures gains the advanced creature simple template. A summoned creature that gains the advanced creature simple template in this manner appears unnervingly deformed or unnaturally hideous, bringing with it a whiff of the emptiness of the void. This ability works only on spells you cast as a cleric—it does not work on spellcasting abilities gained from any other spellcasting classes you might have.

Also, that is fantastic on the World Deformer. I'll take a look at the change in a bit.

Ethereal Gears

2015-10-15, 04:30 PM

Yeah, "voidwrighting" a crepuscularch definitely opens up a lot of wonderful creepy King in Yellow associations. Deadly decadence and all that.

Also, frankly, I think that domain power is just Paizo being boring. I would prefer the alien template, I think, even though it's not readily available on the SRD (or d20pfsrd.com). Let's plug this Beyond the Void book, I say! It sounds really cool. Just my 2 cp though.

And yes, the world deformer feels really finished now. Here's a direct link: World Deformer (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8e09cD4OAF3X3kwU1FKd3E3OXM/view?usp=sharing) if you want to put it in the Alloprax thread. I'm not sure, but I don't think other people can access direct links to the files in my shared folder? Unless it's just my ignorance of how Google Drive works. But there's the link just in case.

Cheers,
- Gears

Xuldarinar

2015-10-15, 05:23 PM

Plugging Beyond the Void:

The Alien template is fantastic and versatile, creating alien creatures from the mundane.
The Embryonic template allows for youthful versions of various creatures, usually bursting out of chests (later).

One feat allows for the summoning of tapestry creatures, modifying summon monster heavily, and it is wonderful in it allows you to apply the alien template in place of celestial and fiendish.

Another feat improves your capacity to sneak around, if I recall correctly.

The archetypes are for the Summoner (summoning alien creatures, woo), the Alchemist (diving into the ocean to find things in the depths, typically associated with the tapestry), and the Wizard (an eye centered wizard).

Some of the spells added are also wondrous, providing alien versions for Planar Binding and Contact other Plane, along with a spell that allows you to implant an embryonic creature to burst out of someone's chest in a matter of hours, days, months, or years (great for assassinations!).

The content isn't limited to that, but its a portion of it. The flavor is wonderful, almost a must have for campaigns that have the dark tapestry as a thematic element, blatantly or subtly.

Also; I've edited the Voidwright so the default template is alien, but the advanced template can be used in absence of access.

Ethereal Gears

2015-10-15, 05:41 PM

Sounds cool!

And the change to voidwright sounds good. I'm tentatively working on my own "flavor-changing" archetype, though it may be less generally applicable than yours. It changes the shadewright into an Epic Mickey-style ink mage who draws things and creatures with mysterious ink instead of weaving them out of shadow stuff. As things look now though it will probably have more mechanical implications than the voidwright. Instead of "ink conjurations" being less real and granting Will saves to disbelieve like shadow conjurations, they will probably have HP and AC based on your level so people can cut them to bits to dispel them. For instantaneous effects, I think they will instead grant a Fort save (as opposed to a Will save) to take a reduced percentage of the effect.

Ethereal Gears

2015-10-16, 07:55 AM

For those who enjoy a bit of modularity in their classes, I've created a pair of simple alternate class features for the shadewright:

The Shadow Sage and the Shadow Scholar (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8e09cD4OAF3aGg2RzI0WHpudzQ/view?usp=sharing)

These basically let you play a Wisdom- or Intelligence-based shadewright rather than a Charisma-based one. These are two alternate class feature options available to shadewrights of all archetypes (or none of them) except for uncommoners, who don't get access to this option because of balance reasons and due to their flavor.

Hope y'all enjoy!

Cheers,
- Gears

Ethereal Gears

2015-10-22, 08:49 AM

So, this is just a small update, but I thought it worth mentioning. I've created a new gloaming for the world deformer:

Worldmaw (Su)

The shadewright can use her warp reality ability to open up a worldmaw anywhere within 60 feet. This functions as per create pit, using the shadewright's class level as her effective caster level. The worldmaw remains for up to 1 round per class level, although the shadewright must spend a move action each round after the one wherein it was created to concentrate on the worldmaw. Otherwise, the worldmaw's duration is canceled prematurely. Beginning at 6th level, the shadewright can spend 1 additional shadow point when using this ability to instead have it function as per spiked pit. At 9th level, she can have it function as per acid pit by spending 2 additional shadow points, although unlike acid pit, this version of the worldmaw deals cold damage rather than acid damage. Beginning at 12th level, by spending 3 additional shadow points when using this ability, the shadewright can have it function as per hungry pit. If the shadewright expends a standard action instead of a move action to concentrate on her worldmaw, she can move it up to 30 feet as part of concentrating on it. Note however that moving the worldmaw further than 60 feet away from the shadewright immediately cancels its duration. A shadewright must possess the warp reality ability to learn this gloaming.

I thought it suited the archetype's flavor rather neatly, and I also think it interacts quite well with the move earth version of the warp reality ability which, while it can create "pits" of a sort, would merely lower creatures down into them harmlessly, rather than the more aggressive effects of the create pit line of spells.

Anyway, I hope people like it! The Google Drive document has been updated to reflect this addition.

Cheers,
- Gears

EDIT: Oh! I also created a new gloaming for the crepuscularch, because the idea of those guys not being able to somehow gain access to guards and wards was simply too much to bear:

Ward Demesne (Su)

By spending 2 additional shadow points as part of opening a doorway into her shadow demesne, the shadewright can gain the effects of guards and wards within the shadow demesne until the doorway into it closes. This ability can affect the entirety of the shadow demesne's interior, as well as a 60-foot radius centered on its doorway on the outside. The guards and wards effect otherwise treats the shadewright's class level as her effective caster level, and all saving throws against this ability's effects use the shadewright's standard gloaming DC. This ability does not affect nested shadow demesnes if used in conjunction with the worlds within worlds gloaming (see below). A shadewright must be at least 12th level and possess the shadow demesne ability to learn this gloaming.

Xuldarinar

2015-10-27, 11:19 PM

I had an idea that I figure'd I would share. A single versatile feat, or a set of feats around a single theme.

You would require the shadow reservoir class feature. You gain a toned down version of a class feature ascribed to one of the shadewright archetypes (or an ability typically replaced), allowing you to utilize it and qualify for appropriate gloamings. Just a thought.

Im inclined towards either a single feat, or a set of mutually exclusive feats. Regardless it would take some work, but it could spread out the potential options exponentially.

Ethereal Gears

2015-10-28, 05:07 AM

This would essentially be the Eldritch Heritage line of feats, except for shadewright archetypes rather than sorcerer bloodlines, correct? Or, I mean, I think that's how I would do it. I think you would have to create a series of feat trees (or at the very least one feat per archetype), because the various class features of the different archetypes are so markedly different that grouping it all under one feat would just get clunky.

I personally think something like Shadow Path (Horrorist), and then Improved Shadow Path (Horrorist) and lastly Greater Shadow Path (Horrorist), and doing the same, in three steps, for each archetype you want to create a shadow path for would probably be the best way of going about it. Just my two cp, though.

In other news, I went crazy and decided to expand the world deformer archetype I created for shadewrights belonging to Xuldarinar's crazy alloprax race into a full-blown base class. The archetype still exists, of course, but this base class takes the concept one step further. No longer tied to any specific race (although obviously very thematically appropriate for alloprax), the nihilurge is a Lovecraftian reality warper, a spell-less d6 HD 1/2 BAB monstrosity that hopefully will be hitting these forums this week or the next. I'm inclined to think people who like the shadewright may quite possibly enjoy it. :)

Cheers,
- Gears

Xuldarinar

2015-11-11, 04:13 AM

A gift, harkening from a bit of mad inspiration;

Shadow Cerebrant
Some shadewrights have found a way to draw strength from madness, their powers further waining away at their minds and their madness further opening the door to greater power.
A shadewright with the shadow celebrant alternate class feature uses her total penalty to Will saves plus 10 as an ability score in place of her Charisma to calculate all class features normally dependent upon Charisma, ignoring any bonuses applied to her Will save for this purpose. A shadow cerebrant furthermore begins play with a random insanity. While she may become cured of this insanity, the Will penalties levied upon her by most insanities can prove to be greatly beneficial to her. In addition, at 1st level, a shadow cerebrant may choose a single Charisma-based shadewright class skill. The shadow cerebrant can use her Wisdom penalty in place of her Charisma bonus when making skill checks of those kind. This choice is set once made.

Edit; And an additional one.

Scarred Shadow
Some shadewrights are marred with scars, drawing their strength from vitality in place of any force of will.
A shadewright with the scarred shadow alternate class feature uses her Constitution in place of her Charisma to calculate all class features normally dependent upon Charisma. A scarred shadow furthermore possesses a good Fortitude save, but poor Reflex and Will saves, each advancing as the other would have. In addition, at 1st level, a scarred shadow may choose a single Charisma-based shadewright class skill. The scarred shadow can use her Constitution in place of her Charisma when making skill checks of those kind. This choice is set once made.

Ethereal Gears

2015-11-11, 04:47 PM

I think these are great suggestions thematically, but I am a bit uncertain about the mechanical execution. The standard insanities in PF don't seem to come with a Will save penalty, so I don't quite see how that would interact with the shadow celebrant idea. I like the theme of this one, but in a sense I feel like it's already being partially represented by the world deformer archetype's ability to incur Wisdom drain in order to gain bonus shadow points.

As for the scarred shadow, I think it has potential, but it seems a bit wonkily balanced. "Casting" off of Con is really strong, and I don't think it pays a hefty enough price for this boon. I would suggest only granting these guys a good Reflex save, since it is objectively the least important save (especially since these guys will be getting hit points up the wazoo). I also think they ought to be reduced to 2 + Int mod skill ranks per level, so they need to invest in Int if they want skills, making them less SAD. I still think it would be a bit OP as an option, and would have wonky interactions with the shadefire adept archetype, but at a minimum that's what required in my view.

Just my initial notes.

Cheers,
- Gears

Xuldarinar

2015-11-11, 07:15 PM

Well, what I refer to in terms of insanities are found here (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/gameMasteryGuide/sanityAndMadness.html). Amnesia is a -4, Multiple Personality Disorder is a -6, Paranoia is a -4, and Schizophrenia is also a -4. I do see your point on the world deformer, but this approaches from a differing vector and could be used with it, I think.

For the Scarred shadow, how about this;
Con based casting.
Poor saves.
2 + Int skill points.

I get Con casting is very solid, just look at the scarred witch doctor. Perhaps things there could be used as a precedent.

Ethereal Gears

2015-11-11, 08:15 PM

Aha. I had somehow missed that some of those insanities do come with Will save penalties. All the same (and maybe I'm missing something really obvious here), it seems really strange balance-wise. I mean, you incur a random insanity, meaning you will have an effective Charisma score for your class features somewhere between 14 and 16, right? And then there's no really dependable way of raising your effective Charisma score like with an actual ability score, and it just seems terribly unbalanced and hard to play. And then the skill part works off a Wisdom penalty rather than a Will save penalty, which is a completely different thing, of course, and that just complicates matters further. Honestly, I think I need to have it properly laid out for me how this alternate class feature would work in play, because I'm just not seeing it. I would love for it to work out, though, because I think the concept is very cool flavor-wise.

As for the scarred shadow, I think your suggested change is probably the only reasonable approach. I think it would be alright if they get to use Con for a single Cha-based shadewright class skill.

Once we get these sorted I'll incorporate them into the document currently housing the shadow sage and shadow scholar, renaming it something like "Shadow Paths" or something, so we have a cohesive rubric to file these kinds of alternate class features under.

Cheers,
- Gears

Xuldarinar

2015-11-11, 08:41 PM

Well, lets have a look at the shadow cerebrant.

Will penalty sources;

Insanity: One can possess a -0, -4, or -6 via a free insanity. One can incur more than one, which would stack (I believe) but thats not out the gate.

Wisdom: One can possess a -0 to -5 via low Wisdom score.

Conditions: The following conditions place a penalty to one's Will saves (all instances are to all saves, so it should count); Frightened, Panicked, Shaken, and Sickened.

Between these, your starting ability score will range from effectively being 10, to 21. If you take on all possible insanities and have a Wisdom score of 1, your casting ability score will be a 33, but you have a -23 on Will saves before any bonuses to be added. If you take on one of the above status effects, its a temporary +2 boost to said ability score, but again.. saves are lower. This is perhaps easiest to utilize if you have a phobia, as you would need to fail a will save when you encounter the source of your phobia to become frightened, but then you are forced to flee unless you have no other choice.

One could put in text to allow ability score increases to work as decreases, I think i did that somewhere before, and/or even turn the whole thing to work off of Wisdom but the lower the better. Not dissimilarly, one could apply a +1 bonus in place of the normal ability score increase to this "casting stat", but it serves no other purpose.

Now, as far as Wisdom penalty to a skill, there is a precedent in that with Chaositech, but beyond that.. yeah, it is a bit weird.

Ethereal Gears

2015-11-12, 10:54 AM

Thanks a lot for clarifying and elaborating, Xuldarinar. I have a much clearer picture of the shadow celebrant now. Wait, is it cerebrant or celebrant? I was first thinking "celebrant", but I suppose that doesn't make much sense. "Cerebrant" is obviously a neologism; I assume it alludes to "cerebral"? Reminds me of cerebrates from Starcraft. The latter, ironically, is not getting attacked by the forums' spell checker. :P

Anyway, things seem a bit more balanced now that you've explained them. I'm still a little leery of the concept as it's not capped in the same fashion as traditional ability scores are. I mean, if a fighter could achieve a 33 Str score as easily as these guys can their virtual "casting stat", but to do so he would have to incur a -23 penalty on Fort saves (seems a resonable comparison; Fort saves can potentially be every bit as destructive as Will saves when failed, and sometimes even more so), my question is would he do it? Does it all balance out so that most shadow cerebrants will try for some kind of reasonable penalty (equivalent to a Cha score above 10 but below 20 at 1st level)? I don't know. It still really makes my head hurt trying to figure out, but I suppose I wouldn't mind adding it in as an alternate class feature option. I don't think I would ever want to play or GM for someone using this, though. It just seems way too wobbly power-level-wise. I suppose it's fitting that this mechanic you've dreamt up is literally driving me insane, anyway. :P

Cheers,
- Gears

Xuldarinar

2015-11-12, 01:08 PM

It is cerebrant. In reference to cerebrosis, which is in reference in this case to the Dragon Magazine article as well as the condition of the same name.

As for, would one do it, I think that does depend upon the player. In the character, they may not realize they are falling further into madness, but if they came to it for power, or make the connection, they are likely to consider it if it doesn't simply happen by chance. For the player, its a personal assessment of risk and reward. The higher the penalty, the more powerful they are, but the easier any Will based effect can get to them. Granted, they possess a good Will save progression to help counteract this, but they will need to invest a great deal to be powerful and over all have a positive modifier to their Will saves, let alone one that can succeed regularly on their Will saves against the things they would encounter of their level.

Im glad to know the function is at least fitting. I know I come up with ideas, and favor others, that don't make the table any easier but largely that is their point. Its like with horror campaigns; Someone is likely to die for their pursuit of power, or suffer a worse fate, but that is the point.

Ethereal Gears

2015-11-12, 01:22 PM

I totally get where you're coming from. I generally applaud complex subsystems if they have great flavor, although sometimes something will just turn me off for arbitrary reasons. I do do it myself, though. I mean, heck, the shadewright itself is a class which requires enemies to roll a save each time you strike them with your main offensive ability, requiring dual rolls (one to hit, one to save against) for each attack. That's certainly something which complicates play, but I do think it feels balanced, and therefore I've kept it even if it will slightly bog down play.

Anyway, I'll work these two into the shadow sage + scholar document when I've got the time. I'm rather juggling several homebrew projects simultaneously right now.

Cheers,
- Gears

umbrapolaris

2016-09-12, 12:00 AM

hi, im late but i love the work very flavorful for those like who like shadow-based stuff !

Maybe i missed something, but i don't see any Shadowcaster related stuff, quite weird for a shadow-themed class :p
Almost all the core class were covered (wizard, paladin, monk, etc...) except the Shadowcaster lol