Xykon's Plan

[Trillium]

Soo, I was thinking. Why would Xykon care so much about them Gates. Sure, they are a way towards ruling the world, but 1) they are risky, with Snarl and everything; 2) a sorcerer of Xykon's power could probably just conquer the world, old-fashioned way. It would've been more fun anyway. Instead, he manages to keep his normally short attention on the Gates for a loooong time. And he probably knows he would get bored of ruling the world the second week after his triumph.

Now let's remember, who told him about the Gates? A goblin cleric, whose deity ascended from being mortal to godhood. That might've put an idea in Xykon's head.

I suspect Xykon want to use either the Gate itself or the leverage it gives to somehow ascend to godhood. Becoming an undead god? Now that would be FUN for him! And maybe, having become a god, he would be able to taste coffee again...

[Quild]

That last line seems to indicate that you've readed SoD. You should then have most of your answers :smallconfused:

Xykon failed several times to be a conqueror. Until he met Redcloak, he had been a second rate villain. Can't come up with a plan, just has his power.

As a lich, he managed to be defeated by the Sapphire Guard and was only saved by Miko, somehow. Tarquin can barely control a continent but need to hide that he's doing so.
As a human, he lost to Lirian.

The Plan that Redcloak told him does make a difference with Xykon's own abilities.

[Trillium]

That last line seems to indicate that you've readed SoD. You should then have most of your answers :smallconfused:

Xykon failed several times to be a conqueror. Until he met Redcloak, he had been a second rate villain. Can't come up with a plan, just has his power.

As a lich, he managed to be defeated by the Sapphire Guard and was only saved by Miko, somehow. Tarquin can barely control a continent but need to hide that he's doing so.
As a human, he lost to Lirian.

The Plan that Redcloak told him does make a difference with Xykon's own abilities.

Ye, but I read it long time ago, so remember only important parts (like coffee).

But now, being a lich, having a bazillion of hobgoblins at his command, having crushed one of the strongest nations in the world and outlived perhaps the only character capable of taking him one-on-one (i.e. Soon), it should be much easier.

[AvatarVecna]

Not to mention what he went through to accomplish this plan. He gave up his mortality (he wanted/needed to anyway), his morality (what little he had), and his ability to taste (which caused him to murder someone and attempt to murder a second person when he found out). He's made sacrifices, both physically and mentally, to accomplish this plan; he's literally invested his blood, sweat, and tears into it. Now, whether he decides to cut his losses or not is another matter entirely.

[hroþila]

Mobilizing the entire hobgoblin tribe gave him some 30,000 soldiers who are loyal to Redcloak, not to him (and a third of those died in the battle of Azure City). What makes you think that'd be enough to conquer the world, even if Redcloak was on board with the idea? And how would he keep the conquered territories in check without the threat of releasing the Snarl on them?

[Ramien]

To put it simply, it's because Xykon doesn't plan. He's not inclined to plan, and when he does, he gets caught 'dead to rights'. Until meeting Redcloak, he drifted, not really accomplishing a lot or even becoming particularly well known despite his power. His approach to power was and is always of the 'bigger hammer' variety - witness his speech to Dorukan during that battle. Sure, he gets flashes of inspiration (Super ball with symbol of insanity), but it's not a sustained thing.

For further proof, look at the time he spent in Azure CityGobbotopia. He accomplished nothing beyond finding new ways to torture O-Chul while Redcloak built the foundations of the goblin nation. He only started doing things on his own accord again after V's attack gave him a threat to respond to, and even then, his actions boiled down to yelling at Redcloak to find his phylactery, then disappearing to create his tomb-fortress in the Astral Plane.

To sum up, Xykon is superb at responding to immediate threats and coming up with a good (uncomplicated) idea now and then - but he doesn't plan. Redcloak is the impetus behind the current plan, and while Xykon has the most overt power, he needs at least some form of outside direction to best know when to apply his favorite combinations of Force and Style.

And I'm sure there's people who could challenge Xykon one-on-one quite handily, if it were their story. Julio Scoundrél, if he had a bone to pick with the lich, could do quite well, for example - If he didn't have some means of protection from energy drain to deal with succubi and vampires, I'd be surprised. Tarquin (Or possibly another Vector Legion member) probably could as well, if he actually understood the story. But it's not either of their stories, with good reason.

(And those bazillion hobgoblins are under Redcloak's command, not Xykon's. The most Xykon would do with them is have them kill each other for his amusement.)

[The Pilgrim]

But now, being a lich, having a bazillion of hobgoblins at his command, having crushed one of the strongest nations in the world and outlived perhaps the only character capable of taking him one-on-one (i.e. Soon), it should be much easier.

The merit of recruiting that army, organizing it, marching it to battle, leading it to success in battle, and organizing the conquered lands, goes to Redcloak, not Xykon.

Xykon lacks the personal skills to actually govern an organization large enough to build an organization large enough to take over the world by methodic conquest. He needs Redcloak for it, and Redcloak's plan is the Gates, not conventional conquest.

Grabbing a Doomsday Device and use it to blackmail everyone under his will for fear of being unmade, now that's something he is more qualified to accomplish.

The Giant here is playing straight from the main difference between a Lawful Evil villiain and a Chaotic Evil villiain in D&D:

- A CE villiain is dangerous because he is unpredictable and unrestrained, like Xykon. But is only capable of coming with loose plans and unformal small groups of people bend toghether by fear and naked brute force.

- A LE villiain is dangerous because he can deploy a large power base to serve him, and has the personal discipline to planify and execute carefully thought schemes, which take much more effort to twart or even realize. Like Redcloak, or Tarquin. But he is predictable, and limited by laws and rules, be those of his God, King, Tradition, or those he made himself.

[factotum]

I think it's for the same reason that people do the Lottery. Yes, their chances of winning are absolutely minimal, but it doesn't take much effort to do so and the possible rewards are enormous! Xykon has the same mindset. If he tags along with Redcloak's Plan then he doesn't need to exert himself much, but he has the potential reward of ruling the world and finally being able to stick it to all those wizards who are a deal too full of themselves for his liking. If it all fails, well, what does he lose? He doesn't realise the Gods might end the world because of the damage being done, so he thinks he'll just go and try it the old-fashioned way if the last Gate blows up in his face. It's not like he doesn't have all the time in the world for this now...

[dancrilis]

I think a lot of people underestimate Xykon's ability to plan and focus.

Xykon left Redcloak for twenty years found the key to all there plans, deciphered a location he could take and than showed up at Redcloaks door (after tracking him down without any issue) and said ... 'plan is on lets go'.


As such while it is possible that Xykon is merely the muscle that Redcloak is manipulating the idea that he has more up his sleeve regarding the plan is not actually far fetched.

An actually far fetched pet theory of mine is that the whole Gate thing is really just Xykon's downtime, he has his own adventuring party at a planer level and he goes on adventures with them during the times he goes missing - and these are adventures that actually provide him with experience so epic level stuff.
Should Xykon actually aquire the world it will simply be about bragging rights with his friends but he has no actually interest in it other than the badassness of owning a world - Redcloak is merely his cohort (via the leadership feat) who is left to manage his personal affairs while he is adventuring and the treat of Jirix being given the mantle was a very real one - with Xykon's charisma he can afford the -2 to the leadership score.

[Quild]

Xykon left Redcloak for twenty years found the key to all there plans, deciphered a location he could take and than showed up at Redcloaks door (after tracking him down without any issue) and said ... 'plan is on lets go'.


I've always been surprised that Xykon managed to decipher Serini's diary.
He only deciphered Dorukan's gate though (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0196.html).
However, he had for him:
- Time (awakes 24h a day, hadn't much else to do, can craft only 8 hours per day, spent years while maybe not twenty)
- The location of Lirian's gate, so he could proceed backwards from it. And he knew what he was looking for. Locations were ciphered, not the diary itself.

He also may have researched spells that allows to decipher some text. The same way V researched spells of detection. We know Xykon has his own spells.

Maybe the code wasn't that hard to break, but Xykon spent more time than required on it. Maybe because he god bored.
He got the 3 other location between #197 and #300. Which is either long (considering he should have the deciphering key by now), or short (considering how much time it took to have Dorukan's one).

[dancrilis]

I've always been surprised that Xykon managed to decipher Serini's diary.
He only deciphered Dorukan's gate though (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0196.html).
However, he had for him:
- Time (awakes 24h a day, hadn't much else to do, can craft only 8 hours per day, spent years while maybe not twenty)
- The location of Lirian's gate, so he could proceed backwards from it. And he knew what he was looking for. Locations were ciphered, not the diary itself.

He also may have researched spells that allows to decipher some text. The same way V researched spells of detection. We know Xykon has his own spells.

Maybe the code wasn't that hard to break, but Xykon spent more time than required on it. Maybe because he god bored.
He got the 3 other location between #197 and #300. Which is either long (considering he should have the deciphering key by now), or short (considering how much time it took to have Dorukan's one).


We also don't (to memory) know how long he spent looking for the diary - cause other than 'gates exist' he had nothing to go on to find it/them.
He also figured out the relationship between Dorukan and Lirian to memory from that same book.


Edit: Removed a memory issue I had.

[dps]

Tarquin can barely control a continent but need to hide that he's doing so.


Not sure what that has to do with Xykon, or SoD.

[littlebum2002]

As a lich, he managed to be defeated by the Sapphire Guard and was only saved by Miko, somehow.
LOL I just flipped through the entire SoD trying to remember this scene when I realized that you didn't mean that this particular scene was in SoD.


Not to mention what he went through to accomplish this plan. .... Now, whether he decides to cut his losses or not is another matter entirely.

Are you sure you're talking about Xykon here?



And I'm sure there's people who could challenge Xykon one-on-one quite handily, if it were their story. Julio Scoundrél, if he had a bone to pick with the lich, could do quite well, for example -

Lol a "bone" to pick.


I think a lot of people underestimate Xykon's ability to plan and focus.

Xykon left Redcloak for twenty years found the key to all there plans, deciphered a location he could take and than showed up at Redcloaks door (after tracking him down without any issue) and said ... 'plan is on lets go'.



There's a SLIGHT bit of difference between "can plan and focus enough to find and decipher a diary" and "can plan and focus enough to take over the world."

Just a LITTLE bit bigger scope on the latter.

[Kish]

There's a SLIGHT bit of difference between "can plan and focus enough to find and decipher a diary" and "can plan and focus enough to take over the world."

Just a LITTLE bit bigger scope on the latter.
Clearly the halflings in your world use much simpler codes for their diaries than mine!

[Ramien]

I think a lot of people underestimate Xykon's ability to plan and focus.

Xykon left Redcloak for twenty years found the key to all there plans, deciphered a location he could take and than showed up at Redcloaks door (after tracking him down without any issue) and said ... 'plan is on lets go'.



Except that isn't planning. That's following the last bit of information he had regarding the existing plan - without, I might add, letting Redcloak know what was going on.



And considering what happened with both Right-Eye and Redcloak after that, not only did that omission of forethought possibly lose him time (I bet Redcloak could have deciphered the diary faster), but it might still in some way cause him further trouble, either from Right-Eye's Daughter, or just as setting the seeds for Redcloak's eventual betrayal.

And considering how long it took him, and the fact that it all happened offscreen, leaves the question of how much 'focus' he had regarding the matter wide open. For all we know, he spent most of those (three, not twenty) years causing trouble after getting bored, then looking for Redcloak since he was the only one who actually knew the rituals.



Xykon is very good at improvising and going with the flow, but Redcloak does the planning. Xykon's just got enough power that he doesn't usually need to plan, which suits the skeleton just fine.

[Werbaer]

I think a lot of people underestimate Xykon's ability to plan and focus.

Xykon left Redcloak for twenty years found the key to all there plans, deciphered a location he could take and than showed up at Redcloaks door (after tracking him down without any issue) and said ... 'plan is on lets go'.


It was three years, not twenty.

Right-Eye asked Redcloak what they had done in the 18 years since he quit. Redcloak told that they were searching for other gates, and that three years ago, Xykon left.

[Psyren]

Soo, I was thinking. Why would Xykon care so much about them Gates. Sure, they are a way towards ruling the world, but 1) they are risky, with Snarl and everything; 2) a sorcerer of Xykon's power could probably just conquer the world, old-fashioned way. It would've been more fun anyway.

I'm not sure how you're so certain of #2. Even if we set aside the Order themselves, there are lots of power players in the world aside from Xykon - if this whole Godsmoot thing with its bevy of high priests isn't making that abundantly clear, Tarquin and his collection of kingdoms should be.

Xykon knows it too. If he simply went to conventional war, he might do very well - but the more threatening he becomes, the more likely all the remaining nations (even the ones that don't get along) would gang up and throw all their military and magical might right at his face; it would be the Tarquin scenario, but on a global scale, and even Tarquin himself might end up throwing his hat in the ring if Xykon got too uppity. After all, he sees himself as the world's ideal ruler and Xykon as an afterthought, a viewpoint Xykon would be unlikely to agree with.

But I digress. Xykon is sticking to The Plan because he needs a trump card - a WMD to that he can brandish against the first nation to defy him, and thus cow the others into falling in line by making an example. If no one moves first, Xykon gets to consolidate his power and wins the pot. And Xykon is likely feeling especially vulnerable given how close he came to dying (again) when fighting Soon, which would only recommit him to The Plan.

Then there's Redcloak. Xykon trusts him less by the day, but worse, Redcloak is getting stronger by the day too. And Xykon needs him, both for the details of The Plan that Xykon doesn't know, and for his brilliant tactical mind. Without Redcloak, he's in deep trouble. Soon and even Vaarsuvius might have killed Xykon without Redcloak there, and he knows it. Until he has what he thinks is his ace in the hole, he'll need to continue relying on Redcloak, and that thought is likely making him feel more vulnerable than ever.

And lastly, there's the notion that if he doesn't control the Gates, somebody else might be able to. Without the Plan, they become a loose end, one that could come back to bite his bony posterior if he's not careful. Whatever else they might do, he knows they have enough power to potentially challenge his rule, even if he doesn't know exactly how they might be used.

("What do all men with power want? More power." -Oracle, the Matrix)