Good Wizard Gestalts?

[The Vagabond]

What are some good classes to Gestalt with Wizard? Especially for one focused on buffing and battlefield control?

Currently, I'm thinking either Alchemist or Investigator are the best options at first glance. Assume Paizo only.

[AvatarVecna]

1. Arcanist. It casts like 5e casting, except for the part where you get more spells per day from high stats. Arcanist is almost like a mini Sorcerer//Wizard gestalt all by itself, and you can gestalt it with other things.

2. Sorcerer (Wildblooded: Sage). Int-based spontaneous casting, and you get a decent bloodline out of it. Even better if your DM allows you to use it at the same time as the Crossblooded archetype.

3. Bard. You'll have lots of skills, a great skill list, another good save, more spells to work with, Versatile Performance to enhance your skills even more, and Bardic Performance to act as a non-spell-based buff.

4. Alchemist. It's a classic fluff combo, and with good reason: Int-SAD, good item creation, good buffing, and two more good saves.

Those are just the ones I thought of that are super-awesome. As it stands, Wizard//Anything can be pretty good.

[meemaas]

I second alchemist with the infusion discovery. Hand out your extracts to the party for good single target buffs they can open their turn with so you can throw out aoe buffs or battlefield control from the start. Grab cognatogen somewhere to buff your save DCs and go to town. Bombs even make for a good backup to help finish off weakened targets or with the right discoveries even debuffs some more.

[The Vagabond]

Alright- How is the Fast Bomb discovery on a alchemist? The Grenadier archetype?
With my alchemist discovery, should I focus on my bombs to lay down giant walls of debuffs on my enemies with a full attack, or should I focus on more utility discoveries?

[legomaster00156]

Full-attacking with bombs is quite nice. It's still less powerful than a Fireball, but has the advantage of being flexible with its energy types thanks to other discoveries.

[Xuldarinar]

Might as well throw in some suggestions. If you are buffing yourself, might I suggest: Wizard//Barbarian (Unchained or standard). Mad Magic is a useful feat for this. Archetypes, such as the flesheater, are worth consideration.

Wizard//Psychic.

Wizard//Tome Eater Occultist. Just remember to not eat your spellbook.

[Akolbi]

wizard/magus could be pretty good too.

there's a magus discovery that allows you to use wizard spells as if they were magus spells for the purpose of your abilities, take that and spellblade lvl 9 spells >:)

[Xuldarinar]

Question:

Can one be a Wizard (Archetype a)//Wizard (Archetype b)?

Edit:

To expand upon that, what about Wizard with a Multiclass Archetype, or both sides being Multiclass Archetypes of the wizard?


Can you have the VMC Wizard as a Wizard? If so, and theres a yes to one or both of the previous questions, you could be a Wizard//Wizard with your secondary class being Wizard.

[legomaster00156]

No. You cannot have two of the same class, not even with different archetypes or VMC.


It is probably a good idea to use either this variant system or normal multiclassing, but it's possible for the two systems to be used together. In a game using both systems, a character can't take levels in the secondary class she gains from this variant.

[ericgrau]

Rather than picking up a second caster I'd suggest using the second half for passive benefits. After all you can't cast twice in the same turn. Though handing out extracts to conserve actions is a nice idea too. For example monk is popular for touch AC, saves and movement speed. Plus medium BAB helps slightly with ray spells at low low level, when they still miss. I'm not familiar enough with all the PF archetypes so maybe someone else will come up with a better fit than vanilla monk.

[noob]

You might use something fun like synthesis summoner for the extra HP or a few levels dip in monk for extra bonuses and if there is no fractional saves keep wizard continuously while on the other side you take as many classes as you want and try to maximize the dips for saves and try to obtain the good/fun bonuses.(depends also on the XP rules for multiclassing it works well with human)

[ericgrau]

After some quick browsing I found the sensei monk. You lose fast movement but you gain bardic music. Starting at level 7 that's a good way to dump your move actions. Which synergizes really nicely because wizards use their standards and later their swifts to cast. You can also use your ki pool and mystic wisdom to give yourself or allies a speed or AC boost each round. Allies starts at level 6. And while it uses wisdom it's not heavily wisdom dependent.

[Aleolus]

Its not technically from Pathfinder, but I'm a fan of the Wizard//Archivist route. You get ALL the spells!

[legomaster00156]

Its not technically from Pathfinder, but I'm a fan of the Wizard//Archivist route. You get ALL the spells!*

* That the DM feels like giving you.
Fixed that for you.

[robgrayert]

I have a player who is currently gestalt-ing Wizard/Brawler. He's a "workout wizard", as he puts it. Perfection of body *and* mind. Sigh.

[Chromascope3D]

I have a player who is currently gestalt-ing Wizard/Brawler. He's a "workout wizard", as he puts it. Perfection of body *and* mind. Sigh.

Or perhaps a muscle wizard? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYdBV-6bH60)

[Xuldarinar]

For the muscle wizard route, one could always consider a certain 3.x third party feat; Lost Tradition. Sure, you'd still need int to some extent but to cast from Strength would be something.


Actually... then suddenly the Wizard//Barbarian route becomes even more effective. You can pick up the Mad Magic feat and then your spells even can get a boost from rage.

[Psyren]

Though Investigator was mentioned, I'm surprised nobody suggested the Empiricist archetype (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/hybrid-classes/investigator/archetypes/paizo---investigator-archetypes/empiricist) yet.


Fixed that for you.

Actually, both classes get 2 free spells per level of their choice. So even if you never find a single scroll or book, you won't be empty-handed.

[Brova]

Actually, both classes get 2 free spells per level of their choice. So even if you never find a single scroll or book, you won't be empty-handed.

But the Archivist is getting those level up spells off of the Cleric list. And the individual spells on the Cleric list blow. Particularly at low levels. Seriously, bless? cure light wounds? The reason Clerics are sweet is that they make respectable frontliners and can use all the weird and niche utility spells on their list at no cost. That's a pretty good deal, but the Archivist gets shafted on basically every part of it.

[Psyren]

But the Archivist is getting those level up spells off of the Cleric list. And the individual spells on the Cleric list blow. Particularly at low levels. Seriously, bless? cure light wounds? The reason Clerics are sweet is that they make respectable frontliners and can use all the weird and niche utility spells on their list at no cost. That's a pretty good deal, but the Archivist gets shafted on basically every part of it.

That's their tradeoff for being able to learn every domain spell, druid spell, Divine Bard spell, Adept spell etc. in the game, including spells that are lower on those other lists. I'd say it's a fair trade.

And many of those niche spells you mention can be obtained from wands and scrolls, which an archivist has no more trouble using than a cleric does. They don't need UMD to be the CLW wand guy for instance.

[Brova]

That's their tradeoff for being able to learn every domain spell, druid spell, Divine Bard spell, Adept spell etc. in the game, including spells that are lower on those other lists. I'd say it's a fair trade.

The specific scenario was an Archivist stuck with just what he's guaranteed to get. And as legomaster pointed out, the Archivist is only able to learn those spells if the DM lets them. That's very, very different from the Wizard and Cleric who simply know enough good spells to compete without having to do anything in particular. And frankly, the DM is totally able to shut down your learning of those spells without sounding unreasonable. Divine Bard? Really?

[Anlashok]

And as legomaster pointed out, the Archivist is only able to learn those spells if the DM lets them.
Well yeah, but that doesn't feel like a particularly compelling argument against the class because the DM can shut down anyone he wants to whenever he wants.

[Psyren]

The specific scenario was an Archivist stuck with just what he's guaranteed to get. And as legomaster pointed out, the Archivist is only able to learn those spells if the DM lets them. That's very, very different from the Wizard and Cleric who simply know enough good spells to compete without having to do anything in particular. And frankly, the DM is totally able to shut down your learning of those spells without sounding unreasonable. Divine Bard? Really?

Divine Bard is niche, sure, but there's no need to narrow your focus to that. Paladin spells, ranger spells, druid spells and even domain spells are readily available instead.

And even just sticking with the cleric list, with no scrolls at all - in which case I would question to the DM as to why he bothered allowing Archivist in the first place if he was just going to troll the player of that class, but I digress - there are still plenty of good spells on the cleric list you can pick as your automatics from leveling. It just takes a little basic understanding of the cleric class. As for the situational ones to e.g. remove status ailments - again, that's what scrolls are for.