What would your "A Team" be?

[TopCheese]

My A team, and this isn't about copying the originals all the close but making a super group that can handle most situations.

Leader: Sage Knowledge Cleric. Not only will this character be able to put a plan together or find the knowledge on the material plane but has all the tools to ask/find whatever you need by asking their god or other outsiders. Also can forcfully find out information. May not be the sexiest character here but has a certain charm. This character can be molded to fit almost any situation. Uses the help action so much you would think it was a cantrip.

Face: Charlatan Fey Patron Blade Pact Warlock. This basterd is the sexy face of the party. They can manipulate and destroy the mind of the enemy by bringing them on their side or at least make the enemy think twice before attacking. Can also hold their own with ranged and melee options. Slightly jack of all trades but not as much as the wild card. Primary ranged damage dealer.

Muscles: Soldier Bearbarian. Nuff said? This dude had one weakness that not a lot of people can exploit (no not flying...) but psychic/mental attacks. Make sure to kill/stop the ones that could exploit that first. However with this dude, killing things become a point and click game.

The Wild Card: Folk Hero Thief Rogue/Divination Wizard. You never know what this guy can do or WHY (though the leader does) but you learn to not question it. This person should have died more times than you can count but for some reason what should have been a crit became a total whiff, when next to a dangerous enemy this person ran away while dodging strikes that should have hit. He also always seem to have the proper spells prepared to get out of any jam. Doesn't do a lot of direct damage but helps their allies do more. Somehow can pull information out of their butt and is almost always right about things. Not to bad with weapons but not as good as Face or Muscles.

Face and Wild Card will each take the healing feats (Inspirational Leader) and (Healer) respectfully.

[Nowhere Girl]

Hm. Well, here are my first three. I'll have to think about the fourth. Someone to do tanking, maybe?

Lore Bard: Fills the roles of "face," "skillmonkey" (who needs a rogue?) and "full caster awesomeness" all at once. Brings pixie cheese in for fun times all around.

Hand Crossbow Sharpshooter Eldritch Knight: AKA The Man with No Name. As much dps Better dps overall than a Great Weapon Fighter probably, considering the +2 to hit from fighting style, and can eventually get up to five attacks per round, or six with Haste active. Doesn't need to get close to hurt you and also has access to on-demand Shield several times each day. Durable as all fighters are. Kills everything that can bleed extremely quickly.

Illusionist Wizard: Behold God, the Controller of Reality (with apologies to Treantmonk). This will get downright silly once Mirage Arcane comes online, as combined with Malleable Illusions, it basically really is, "I AM GOD HERE."

[rlc]

i'd definitely have a night elf mohawk in there.

[MaxWilson]

Muscles: Soldier Bearbarian. Nuff said? This dude had one weakness that not a lot of people can exploit (no not flying...) but psychic/mental attacks. Make sure to kill/stop the ones that could exploit that first. However with this dude, killing things become a point and click game.

Hmmm. This makes me think it would be a fun house rule to have ways to afflict PCs with vulnerabilities. I already do that with magic items (e.g. Ring of Air Elemental Command which also gives vulnerability and disadvantage vs. poison), and I can imagine doing that as a side effect of certain effects like Underdark madness, but a PC with intrinsic psychic damage vulnerability is kind of a fun concept. I'd have to come up with a way to incentivize the player to opt into it, without turning it into a min/max exercise.

One way that might work could be to offer packages of "background experience" such as "you were once captured and experimented on by mind flayers, which left you mentally scarred. Begin the game at 3rd level, and you understand the rudiments of Deep Speech, but you have a vulnerability to psychic damage and there is a blank spot in your memory two weeks wide and you don't know what they did to you. Your creature type is Aberration." Min-maxers would avoid it but a roleplayer who took it would get something out of it, plus there's a built-in DM hook.

[TopCheese]

Hmmm. This makes me think it would be a fun house rule to have ways to afflict PCs with vulnerabilities. I already do that with magic items (e.g. Ring of Air Elemental Command which also gives vulnerability and disadvantage vs. poison), and I can imagine doing that as a side effect of certain effects like Underdark madness, but a PC with intrinsic psychic damage vulnerability is kind of a fun concept. I'd have to come up with a way to incentivize the player to opt into it, without turning it into a min/max exercise.

One way that might work could be to offer packages of "background experience" such as "you were once captured and experimented on by mind flayers, which left you mentally scarred. Begin the game at 3rd level, and you understand the rudiments of Deep Speech, but you have a vulnerability to psychic damage and there is a blank spot in your memory two weeks wide and you don't know what they did to you. Your creature type is Aberration." Min-maxers would avoid it but a roleplayer who took it would get something out of it, plus there's a built-in DM hook.

Seems like there would eventually be either a bunch of traps or a bunch of options that min-maxers would love. 3E tried this actually, it ended up not doing so well lol.

Flaws gave you a feat, you always took as many flaws as you could.

Then there was other things that have you a penalty and a bonus...

Edit:

As a DM I allow my players to work together. To give an enemy lightning vunerability they can throw water on the target. Dex save the first time, dex save with advantage the second time, third time in same target (or other targets that saw this) it just fails.

[BoutsofInsanity]

In order to handle any situation? My A team which will be more then four characters is as follows...

A Redemption Paladin who was a former rogue. 3 ranks in rogue, with assassin as the focus. With his expertise bonus in Diplomacy, and insight. A former, rapscallion, with knightly characteristics. He will tank, blow up in damage, and sneak, along with the ability to handle charm effects.

A Guardian of Ancients Paladin, who is our nature guy, this one fires from range, and then switch hits as they close in. He stealth's and tracks people in the woods, who also helps against magic.

A Sorcerer who can bluff and intimidate focused on those skills and magic. He answers the call of arcane

A Shadow Monk, with three levels in rogue grabbing expertise on stealth and perception. He will be our roofwork man. Get in, get out, and lock up any caster.

To balance us out, a bard to hit any other areas we missed in skills and magic.

[SharkForce]

1) ancients paladin 7/ fey tome warlock 3/wild sorcerer 10. comes complete with magic weapon (you're taking shillelagh from tome lock), very reliable damage in key fights, has some healing and buffing/support, is tough and scary and annoying enough to draw enemy attacks. packs a good punch in ranged and melee combat, and is mostly cha-focused with a side of con. first level should be sorcerer, then paladin, then 3 warlock levels, then finish off paladin, and finally move on to sorcerer. at higher levels, reaction will be spent bending luck, not on opportunity attacks... by that time, the rest of the party will need to be prepared to tank for themselves (if anything can even reach them through all the control they have). no need for bonus action attacks either, he'll eventually be quickening spells for his bonus action most likely.

2) moon druid. provides a second source of control spells, blasts quite well, can be a secondary tank as needed, can be stealthy as needed. will not actually be spending the majority of time in beast/elemental form until level 18 (except for a brief period from levels 2-4 where it's kinda OP), because casting spells is frequently more scary than being a bear, although animal form is always available if needed. also can heal in a pinch. most likely has criminal background or otherwise has access to thieve's tools.

3) knowledge cleric 2/enchanter wizard 18, sage background. medium armour/shield (don't hold a weapon, you need a hand free) and crazy knowledge skill checks, plus almost all of the goodness that a wizard brings to a party. recommend the cleric levels at 1 and 11 (ie just after the wizard gets fabricate) so you can proficiently craft anything in a pinch. this guy will know just about everything there is to know about anything, and will largely have the spells to exploit that knowledge (and what spells he doesn't have, the others in the party probably do).

4) lore bard. the only reason the paladin above is not the party face. provides healing, support, even more control, and is of course the party face. most likely at some point picks up the moderately armoured feat so that everyone in the party is moderately hard to hit. bardic inspiration means that skill checks elsewhere in the party should generally succeed when necessary. if the campaign actually reaches level 20, probably splash a level of something else (bard capstone sucks royaly). maybe wild sorcerer.

[MaxWilson]

Seems like there would eventually be either a bunch of traps or a bunch of options that min-maxers would love. 3E tried this actually, it ended up not doing so well lol.

Flaws gave you a feat, you always took as many flaws as you could.

GURPS is much the same way with its disadvantages, and my thoughts above are informed by GURPS. That's why the benefit you get is mostly temporary ("start at 3rd level" becomes insignificant after a while) and ambiguous ("your creature type of aberration" makes you immune to Hold Person but vulnerable to Protection From Evil) instead of fungible (you get any free feat).

I'm a powergamer at heart, I know what attracts powergamers. IMO, situational benefits like being an aberration and starting with 900 XP will not suffice to induce powergamers to accept permanent psychic vulnerability in anything but a low-level campaign. The only reason you'd pick that is because you like the roleplaying aspects or because the campaign will end around 5th level.

That's not a "trap". It's a way of playing a psychically scarred mind flayer experiment. It's the same reason tieflings are in the game even though mechanically they're pretty meh compared to half-elves. Some people enjoy being demon-spawn.

[TopCheese]

GURPS is much the same way with its disadvantages, and my thoughts above are informed by GURPS. That's why the benefit you get is mostly temporary ("start at 3rd level" becomes insignificant after a while) and ambiguous ("your creature type of aberration" makes you immune to Hold Person but vulnerable to Protection From Evil) instead of fungible (you get any free feat).

I'm a powergamer at heart, I know what attracts powergamers. IMO, situational benefits like being an aberration and starting with 900 XP will not suffice to induce powergamers to accept permanent psychic vulnerability in anything but a low-level campaign. The only reason you'd pick that is because you like the roleplaying aspects or because the campaign will end around 5th level.

That's not a "trap". It's a way of playing a psychically scarred mind flayer experiment. It's the same reason tieflings are in the game even though mechanically they're pretty meh compared to half-elves. Some people enjoy being demon-spawn.

The 5E way of playing psychically scarred would be to make it a flaw and role play it.

Perhaps you won't willingly stay or get closer to the source of your fear? Perhaps when hit by pschic damage you fly into a rage and attack the source even if that's a bad idea.

You should get inspiration for that.

[MaxWilson]

The 5E way of playing psychically scarred would be to make it a flaw and role play it.

Perhaps you won't willingly stay or get closer to the source of your fear? Perhaps when hit by pschic damage you fly into a rage and attack the source even if that's a bad idea.

You should get inspiration for that.

Sure, and until I read this post in this forum (having just watched The Man From U.N.C.L.E. last night, featuring a superagent with a psychic weakness) it never would have occurred to me that it could ever be fun to have an actual, game-stats vulnerability to psychic attack. But maybe it would be.

But the "normal" 5E way would be to leave it on the roleplay tier.

[TopCheese]

Sure, and until I read this post in this forum (having just watched The Man From U.N.C.L.E. last night, featuring a superagent with a psychic weakness) it never would have occurred to me that it could ever be fun to have an actual, game-stats vulnerability to psychic attack. But maybe it would be.

But the "normal" 5E way would be to leave it on the roleplay tier.

That's the thing though, it isn't just roleplaying, you gain a mechanical advantage for doing it. Any half decent DM would recognize you working your background into your play and give you inspiration.

Advantage is nice.

The mechanical problem you gain is up to you at the time. Perhaps you won't even attack the creature or perhaps you will only use fire (even if it is a torch, very unoptimized) so you can KILL IT WITH FIRE.

[MaxWilson]

That's the thing though, it isn't just roleplaying, you gain a mechanical advantage for doing it. Any half decent DM would recognize you working your background into your play and give you inspiration.

Advantage is nice.

The mechanical problem you gain is up to you at the time. Perhaps you won't even attack the creature or perhaps you will only use fire (even if it is a torch, very unoptimized) so you can KILL IT WITH FIRE.

Oh, I get your point now. Yeah, my table always forgets about Inspiration, maybe because it feels kind of cheap. For the Out of the Abyss campaign I just started with them I told them we're going to restrict it more, so you can only spend it on things related to your bonds/ideals/etc. and you only earn it for playing up your flaws. I hope that restricting it will make them use it more, since it will feel more tied to the game instead of a cheaty random "I get advantage on this die roll just because." We'll see though.

I have to say, though, that if you gain a mechanical advantage for roleplaying your vulnerability, it's no longer a mechanical disadvantage. I still think it would be interesting to have someone who is actually vulnerable to psychic attack, at the game-stats level.

[TopCheese]

Oh, I get your point now. Yeah, my table always forgets about Inspiration, maybe because it feels kind of cheap. For the Out of the Abyss campaign I just started with them I told them we're going to restrict it more, so you can only spend it on things related to your bonds/ideals/etc. and you only earn it for playing up your flaws. I hope that restricting it will make them use it more, since it will feel more tied to the game instead of a cheaty random "I get advantage on this die roll just because." We'll see though.

I have to say, though, that if you gain a mechanical advantage for roleplaying your vulnerability, it's no longer a mechanical disadvantage. I still think it would be interesting to have someone who is actually vulnerable to psychic attack, at the game-stats level.

Cheap or not the game kinda expects players to be able to get advantage easily. Punishing players for role-playing sounds like a bad idea.

It's a mechanical disadvantage that leads to you having a mechanical advantage through role-playing.

You don't need numbers to show your character is vulnerable though. That brings in finicky rules, which is something 5E want a to get rid of (though only did a half way job at it).

The way 5E was created, the player and DM come together and works something out.

Evocation Wizard "whenever I'm hit by psychic damage I can't use portent cantrips on my next turn"

The DM then makes sure not to always target the wizard but still uses it from time to time.

Adding fiddly rules to force this would just make a mess of things.

[Vogonjeltz]

Templeton Peck (Faceman): Lore Bard Charlatan
Bosco Albert (Bad attitude) Baracus: Champion Fighter soldier maybe
Maddog Murdock: Berserker Barbarian soldier
Hannibal: Battlemaster Fighter sage

[Naanomi]

I had some luck with a 'full charisma' squad recently. Everyone 1/2 elf, proficient in stealth, perception, and persuasion. Talk your way out of any problem you can't sneak past, fighting as a last resort

No one with great str or int, but passable numbers to at least attempt checks and everyone participatory in combat and social situations

Dex ancients pally, tanks and nova-smites, backup healer

Lore bard, caster, healer, and skill monkey

Fiend tome warlock, consistent damage, rituals, backup caster

Red dragon sorcerer, clear mooks, burst damage, some utility casting

[Ashrym]

Leader: Lore bard sage -- This character can have expertise in more relevant skill proficiencies than the knowledge cleric from the OP and enough skill proficiencies and peerless skill and jack-of-all-trades so that simply adding a proficiency from channel divinity doesn't seem important. Lore bard easily covers spells to support information gathering similar to the cleric design.

Face: Assassin rogue criminal -- I'm going for a couple of things here. Foremost, persuading NPC's is a DC 20 check, typically, per the DMG so expertise plus reliable talent offers the rogue an opportunity to excel in that specific area. Assassin is for a master of disguise and criminal is for the contact.

Between the sage knowing where to find information and the ex-criminal having a contact for potential information both of the above cover skill / finesse styles well.

Muscle: Bear totem barbarian soldier -- This fits well for muscle, definitely.

Wild Card: Wild sorcerer acolyte -- It's hard to add randomness with out random elements. A wild mage sorcerer adds a mechanical randomness more under DM control than just a player trying to act randomly. Acolyte can still give reasons to act oddly (possibly some oddball cult) and magic surges can be perceived by the PC as divine intervention by patron God or opposing gods.

None of the above is an attempt at optimization and I believe it's true to concept.

[Pex]

No archers. I don't want my A-Team to always miss.

I would also keep an eye on the wild card. He has a tendency to lose himself in illusions of his own creation.

[Nowhere Girl]

No archers. I don't want my A-Team to always miss.

I would also keep an eye on the wild card. He has a tendency to lose himself in illusions of his own creation.

How do you figure archers always miss?

[Dizlag]

A Human Fighter, a Dwarf Cleric, a Halfling Rogue, and an Elf Wizard. The core four. =)

Dizlag

[JoeJ]

How do you figure archers always miss?

I think that might be a reference to the show, which probably set a world record for the most number of shots fired without anybody getting hit.

[Pex]

I think that might be a reference to the show, which probably set a world record for the most number of shots fired without anybody getting hit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOP-2ulq2bk

:smallbiggrin:

[Tarvil]

IMO, the most universal and safe team would be something like this:


Frontline: AKA self-healing, opportunity attack meat grinder. Paladin heal and smite, Battlemaster protect and give Paladin more attacks. It contain:

Vengeance Paladin with great weapon - Buff'n'Smite machine and make sweet Combo with another guy, which is...

Battlemaster with polearm - guy have maxed STR, CON and he is stuffed with feats like Resilient, Sentinel, Polearm Master, GWM.


Backline: Crazy utility and good damage:

Charlatan Lore Bard - Skillmonkey with great combat utility. He is perfect party face too.

Illusionist Wizard - Every Wizard is useful, with rituals, crowd control, utility spells and god damage. But this one is so ridiculously powerful on higher levels... it's almost like cheating.

[JAL_1138]

Four to five level-10+ bards, at least two being Valor to handle melee and ranged weapon combat and at least two being Lore to handle cleric/wizard/out-of-combat-rogue roles.

Built properly, it could be hard for an observer to tell they're not actually a paladin, a ranger, a cleric, and a wizard.

[DireSickFish]

Strongheart Hafling Wolf totem barbarian to tank the front line and provide advantage to two classes that heavily benefit from it.

Dragonborn Oath of Ancients paladin. Smiting on every crit and providing half damage to all spells to his two other mele bros. I'd also max Cha first to provide increased saves as the advantage wolf totem is providing should make me hit, he can also provide bless so the 3 of them are hitting even more often.

Human Thief Rogue should be critting all day on sneak attack and can bring up downed members with a bonus action with a medicin kit plus that feat. Outside combat can be recon.

Those 3 would be my core team I could see having any number of casters as support if we wanted a 4th member but these 3 together fit together so well.

[1Forge]

Bard face of the party and the paladins partner
Paladin tanking with truth, justice, and some bard backup
Bard#2 for healing, subterfuge, theivery, reconnisance, barding...

[Corey]

If we're actually imitating the A-Team:

Hannibal's most distinguishing features are that he makes fanciful plans that work and that he leads a group of oddballs. Also, explosions tend to happen around him.

The obvious choices for Hannibal, I think, are Divination Wizard and Fiend Pact Warlock. Or you could multiclass the two. Fiend Pact depends a bit on who you think he was working for. High CHA is good, Face's role notwithstanding.

B. A. is a Barbarian. Period. He rages, and he's negative about one important aspect of modern technology.

Face is a Bard, first and foremost. Multiclass him with Ancients Paladin because somebody in the group should be, and to give him some additional martial chops.

Whatever his class, Murdock is polymorphed rock gnome. :) He's a Wizard from whatever that added school is in the Modern Magic Unearthed Arcana. I'd probably resist the temptation to say that his nuttiness makes him a GOOlock.

[Ardantis]

Burst team! The squad that can take care of ANY problem, once per long rest. They also don't seem to be able to fight their way out of a paper bag, which is hilarious.

The Face- A Performer Half-Elf Wild Magic Sorcerer- Appears to be a hapless entertainer until the boss fight. Keeps the party fed and in good lodging when in town.

The Muscle- An Outlander Half-orc Frenzy Barbarian- A classic. He pities the fool who causes him to go full-on with the frenzy.

The Leader- A Soldier Variant Human Valor Bard- Apparently just a mercenary archer, he takes divination spells with his Magical Secrets to be the ultimate information broker. Somehow manages to actually get the party hired.

The Wild Card- A Charlatan Lightfoot Halfling Thief Rogue- The action man who gets things done, the world is convinced he is a cheap con man with a number of failed rackets to his name. Has access to the underworld, a sharp wit, and a reputation as a bumbler who's always in the right place at the right time.

The team broke out of a secret military dungeon, and has been battling dragons and other menaces for the people ever since.