Being a "Jedi" without the party noticing the obvious hommage

[Spore]

Greetings playground,

I like Star Wars and I like Pathfinder (not playing Golarion) so I figured if my character would ever die I create a Jedi Knight. The whole point is for the group and the DM to find out my source of inspiration way after the character has been built. Because I dislike the break of immersion that creates. But I like the Jedi code for obvious roleplaying reasons.

A handful of ideas to start off with:
- bound to a code of solving problems with no violence
- melee character with some casting capabilities (no psionics introduced to the group but this might be a good start)
- shouldn't be crippled by recurring murderhoboism (my character will not be a perfect jedi)
- backstory will introduce some ties that are easy for my DM to anger me with (as he likes that)
- healing and protectiveness are very welcomed (yes, I thought about Oradin)

Another topic entirely so I would not want a discussion about the Jedi - and to an extent the Sith - Code. Where would you put the Jedi Code - and the Sith Code - alignment wise? Is it really as simple as LG/CE? Because the code itself is not good or evil per se. the most common interpretations are good (protector) and evil (kill weaker things). I would want for every participant to just give their quick opinion on that matter but not provoke a large-scale alignment discussion.

[Kelb_Panthera]

If I recall, the jedi code calls for serving the will of the force regardless of any moral consideration. Therefore I would peg it as very lawful. The will of the force seems to go more good than not but I'm not exactly a starwars superfan or anything so I could be wrong.

[Raven777]

The Jedi code is mostly about finding strength in reigning in one's passions, while the Sith code is about finding strength by letting loose one's passions. So there's definitely a Lawful / Chaotic dichotomy right there. But I would not automatically assign either to Good or Evil. To me, Jedi would be Lawful Neutral with a bend towards Good from the order tasking itself as diplomats and guardians, and Sith would be Chaotic Neutral with a bend towards Evil from most Sith Lords choosing that path to serve themselves first and anyone else second.

Also, don' t forget your lightsaber Brilliant Energy (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/magic-weapons/magic-weapon-special-abilities/brilliant-energy) Katana!

[El Dorado]

Kensai magus or unchained monk would seem good starting points. Not sure about divine-powered types.

[ericgrau]

I would give jedi-sith its own axis to avoid confusion when role-playing. No need to involve alignment, except briefly when you first pick one if you must. They do seem lawful-good or lawful neutral.

Do write up your code, share it with the DM, and follow it.

Psionics or a gish would be nice. Mage hand and levitate are handy before you get telekinesis. If you can somehow get wis as your casting stat it would be nice.



Also, don' t forget your lightsaber Brilliant Energy (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/magic-weapons/magic-weapon-special-abilities/brilliant-energy) Katana!

The thing with brilliant energy is that it doesn't hit undead, constructs or, most importantly, objects. Adamantine would be a better fit for cutting ability. Or maybe soulknife? Homebrew? I dunno. Also brilliant energy is a bit obvious to others. Maybe make your weapon glow, which is free on any magic weapon, and call it a day.

[Anlashok]

Seconding Magus, pretty much encapsulates the idea better than anything else in core pathfinder... though you might be able to swing inquisitor as well if you want to be more of a movie jedi with more supporty 'force powers'.

Shame about the no-psionics, gifted blade soulknives basically are jedi and their dark tempest PrC even moreso (to the point that the dark tempest they use in the book is a borderline copyright infringing dead ringer for the promotional sith assassin from star wars the old republic).

hell, DSP Psionics even has hilts that someone with a mind blade can manifest their weapon through so at that point it literally is a light saber.

But yeah, for regular Pathfinder I like Inquisitor or Magus.

[Sacrieur]

Jedi Consular, Guardian, or Sentinel? And what lightsaber form?

I'm a huge SW fan too so I'm going to help you make this work.



If I recall, the jedi code calls for serving the will of the force regardless of any moral consideration. Therefore I would peg it as very lawful. The will of the force seems to go more good than not but I'm not exactly a starwars superfan or anything so I could be wrong.

The Jedi in particular have an interesting creed. Of the many Force traditions it has splinters within itself what truly represents the Light side of the source. It is Good, but certainly not always lawful and is more about balance than liberation or order. This pegs it as strictly NG, in direct comparison with Sith users, who are very decidedly NE (As what they seek is power for its own sake, with equally interesting philosophies).



The Jedi code is mostly about finding strength in reigning in one's passions, while the Sith code is about finding strength by letting loose one's passions. So there's definitely a Lawful / Chaotic dichotomy right there. But I would not automatically assign either to Good or Evil. To me, Jedi would be Lawful Neutral with a bend towards Good from the order tasking itself as diplomats and guardians, and Sith would be Chaotic Neutral with a bend towards Evil from most Sith Lords choosing that path to serve themselves first and anyone else second.

The Jedi Code isn't about finding strength at all, but rather peace. The Sith are the ones who concern themselves with strength. As for the Lawful/Chaotic dichotomy, there really isn't one, as each side of the force has acted lawfully and chaotically, depending on the circumstances.

[Andezzar]

IMHO Psychic Warrior (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/classes/psychicWarrior.htm) is pretty much a jedi in a can. There is even an ACF (Soulbound Weapon) (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070214a) that gives a greater connection between the character and his weapon and it augments it. This should give you the cutting properties (metalline, transmuting etc.) of a lightsaber. If you want to make the homage obvious give him some prop to "summon" the blade, if not skip that.

[zergling.exe]

Jedi Consular, Guardian, or Sentinel?

I'm a huge SW fan too so I'm going to help you make this work.

The Jedi in particular have an interesting creed. Of the many Force traditions it has splinters within itself what truly represents the Light side of the source. It is Good, but certainly not always lawful and is more about balance than liberation or order. This pegs it as strictly NG, in direct comparison with Sith users, who are very decidedly NE (As what they seek is power for its own sake, with equally interesting philosophies).

The Jedi Code isn't about finding strength at all, but rather peace. The Sith are the ones who concern themselves with strength. As for the Lawful/Chaotic dichotomy, there really isn't one, as each side of the force has acted lawfully and chaotically, depending on the circumstances.

The Sith Code seems to go against your interpretation:


Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.

No part of this code is inherently evil. No hurting, oppresing or killing others. It does say chaotic things; namely that the Force will free the user, a distinctly chaotic view.

Most Sith definitely have evil views, but the Sith outlook itself is CN. Look out for #1.


The Jedi Code has two distinct version: one good, the other fairly lawful.


There is no emotion, there is peace.
There is no ignorance, there is knowledge.
There is no passion, there is serenity.
There is no chaos, there is harmony.
There is no death, there is the Force.


Jedi are the guardians of peace in the galaxy.
Jedi use their powers to defend and protect, never to attack others.
Jedi respect all life, in any form.
Jedi serve others, rather than rule over them, for the good of the galaxy.
Jedi seek to improve themselves through knowledge and training.


The good version of the code is about 5,000 years younger than the lawful version.

Now I'm not an expert on these things by any stretch, so I may be wrong.

[Sacrieur]

The Sith Code seems to go against your interpretation:

No part of this code is inherently evil. No hurting, oppresing or killing others. It does say chaotic things; namely that the Force will free the user, a distinctly chaotic view.

Most Sith definitely have evil views, but the Sith outlook itself is CN. Look out for #1.

While that is the Sith code, no Sith, regardless of their intention, has ever not turned to evil. The Dark Side makes them evil.

From the NE excerpt:

Neutral evil characters care only for themselves, and do whatever they think they can get away with. They place no stock in the ability of laws or codes to protect them, and thus don't bother to follow them. At the same time, they're less spontaneous and prone to whimsy than chaotic evil characters. In some ways, neutral evil is the purest form of evil, unburdened by any other tropes or tendencies. Whether a neutral evil character has chosen to practice evil for its own sake or—more often—simply has no empathy for others, the result is the same: cold, unfeeling cruelty.

Sounds pretty much like the Sith in its entirety.



The Jedi Code has two distinct version: one good, the other fairly lawful.

The good version of the code is about 5,000 years younger than the lawful version.

Now I'm not an expert on these things by any stretch, so I may be wrong.

While the Jedi very often sided with the law, it actually ended up undermining their entire order. Qui-Gon Jinn believed in the "living force" and is probably the truest version of a Jedi there is. It's theorized that the Jedi lost their way which led to the lapse in foresight that caused their collapse.

There's a huge controversy surrounding the use of Clones by the Jedi in the Clone Wars, in specific exactly how un-Jedi it was. The Order turned a blind eye to the use of slave soldiers and let Palpatine have his way with things for years before finally acting chaotically and attempting to put an end to him, after learning his true nature. This was a massively chaotic act, as Palpatine was the lawful Supreme Chancellor and the Jedi's assault on him was a treasonous act. Basically, the use of Order 66 was completely legitimate.

[Andezzar]

Whether jedi and sith are lawful or chaotic is very hard to answer, because those words aren't defined well in the rules. Can someone who rigidly follows a code be chaotic? What if that code amounts to don't care what others think, do whatever you feel like?

[DMVerdandi]

Well, here is my 2 cents.
Within the Jedi and Sith orders, there was a large amount of abilities, individual talents and what-have-you, so If there was one thing tying together at least the force users, it would be the philosophy and their use of the force itself.

It wasn't until much later that the two sects began to generalize their learning curriculum, so really, you could tackle force adepts from multiple directions. so here we go.

Divine Direction:
The force is a conscious entity that influences the lives of those who are attuned to it. While it is nothing like the creator, it is definitely the sustaining power of the galaxy.

Doing it this way, you could easily pick up a cleric or a shaman[nature fang archetype], and it would work perfectly. In star wars there are two ideas of the nature of the force, one being the living force, and the other being the unifying force.
You could choose either one and kind of show how the force has a connection to the natural world, or the spiritual world.


Arcane Direction:
The force is a cosmic energy that can be manipulated for the benefit of a user.
Honestly, arcane magic is something far closer to that of how the sith use it. For them it is a tool to be wielded, and they are supposed to dominate the force, rather than unify with it.
The sith in particular are renowned for actually using the force as a source of energy for actual sorcery.

A couple of people have said magus. Other options, blade adept arcanist


Psionic Direction:
"The force is an energy field that is created by all living things. it surrounds and penetrates us, and binds the galaxy together[obi-wan kenobi]"

Probably the easiest to flat out do [Although cleric is probably equal in ease].
Again, there are different roles and such in the jedi order and amongst force users, so one could be a marksman, another a psychic warrior, a tactician and vitalist still.

Psychic warrior is good for the melee, but Psychic Mage is probably best of all.
You get to prepare psion powers as a wizard.
Finding how to translate that into melee shouldn't be TOO hard.

But if that's crazy, again, psychic warrior, which is even improved in 3.5


I wouldn't worry too much about like, the lightsaber thing.
So many people get wrapped up in it and plead for the soul-knife.
Meh. I say just enchant your weapon and keep it moving.
Or buy a null-blade



But yeah, there are options.

[Andezzar]

What's a null-blade?

[Nizaris]

If Spheres of Power is in play, use it in place of psionics or regular arcane magic, using either the Eliciter (try to change Intelligence use for Wisdom) or replace the Magi's (Kensai) casting with SoP. I'd focus on Telekenesis, Diviniation, and then a dip in Mind/Time/Protection as needed (Drawbacks when possible) for Mind Trick, Force Speed, and extra defense.

While each individual use might not be as strong, (near) infinite uses means you can reliably use whatever you want every round. Eliciter gives a flat speed and AC bonus but Magi's combat casting is really useful.

[Kurald Galain]

- melee character with some casting capabilities (no psionics introduced to the group but this might be a good start)
- healing and protectiveness are very welcomed (yes, I thought about Oradin)

Well, I was going to suggest Magus as well (guide linky (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?423754-Myrrh-Frankincense-and-Steel-Kurald-Galain-s-Guide-to-the-Magus)), however it doesn't do so well at healing and protecting. However, it does give you a lightsaber at level 5+, so there's that.

In terms of jedi'ism, how would you like a sentient blade that reminds you of your code?

[Seto]

The Jedi code is mostly about finding strength in reigning in one's passions, while the Sith code is about finding strength by letting loose one's passions. So there's definitely a Lawful / Chaotic dichotomy right there. But I would not automatically assign either to Good or Evil. To me, Jedi would be Lawful Neutral with a bend towards Good from the order tasking itself as diplomats and guardians, and Sith would be Chaotic Neutral with a bend towards Evil from most Sith Lords choosing that path to serve themselves first and anyone else second.

I think this is spot-on. Part of Anakin's problem, for example, is that he was always too chaotic to function in the Jedi Order (because he wasn't brainwashed trained young enough). What is theoretically at most a bend towards G/E practically always manifests, though.

As for the mechanics, I second Soulknife for the lightsaber (which is in my mind the most Jedi-y thing about Jedis), and you might want to dip Psion (for weak mind control and telekinesis).

[Spore]

While I think Sith would be great Magi, I feel the raw offensive power of Magi isn't well utilized with a Jedi. A Jedi could even be a bard utilizing his mind affecting spells rather than a Magus that kills his first resistance using a Shocking Grasp. Of the most effective spells, I think Shocking Grasp is best used on a Sith.

Maybe I should have worded my endeavor clearer. While I enjoy the fluff of an actual Jedi I just wanted to translate the philosophy and typical (onehanded) fighting style into Pathfinder. Be it a lawful neutral Paladin (houserules allow LN and NG), a LG inquisitor (has healing, is almost supernaturally skilled in many things) or a Qi-Gong Monk using a Kama.

I don't even care or know about the lightsaber styles (and the styles cease to make sense with physical blades they have significantly more momentum.

No lightsabers needed.

[N. Jolly]

And here I figured Kineticist would be a good fit for this, telekineticist particularly. You've got plenty of telekinetic powers to feign being the chosen one, kinetic blade with a 1 handed weapon you could make glow for your lightsaber, and really you could go aerokineticist afterwards for sith lightning as well as suffocate for force choke, although those are only for sith, but basic telekineticist should be solid enough with things like foe throw to rag doll opponents.

[noob]

Play a wizard or cleric.
Well now you are omnipotent and so you can look like a jedi if you want.

[LudicSavant]

Cleric of the Silver Flame in Eberron. You worship something rather like the Force. It has a Light and Dark Side and everything. You even get to say "If you strike me down, I'll become stronger than you can ever imagine."

[Jormengand]

Inquisitor? You have a sorta-code (inquisition) and you can heal and protect, you're a melee character with casting capabilities, and when the chips are down you can declare Judgement and start a fight.

[DMVerdandi]

What's a null-blade?

It's in the technological weapons section in the PFSRD.
Essentially, it's a construct bane bastard sword that cuts as if it's adamantium, and dispels magic.
Might not exactly be like a lightsaber, but it is perfect for the older sith swords that used to be around.

[Red Fel]

While that is the Sith code, no Sith, regardless of their intention, has ever not turned to evil. The Dark Side makes them evil.

I think this boils down to a writing issue.

The language and doctrine of both groups seems to be fairly strong. The classical Jedi texts are strongly Lawful, Sith are strongly Chaotic, and newer Jedi seem to lean Good. It doesn't sound like you're arguing that this isn't the case, but rather that the practical effect of being Sith is that, even if you only start off at Chaotic, the Dark Side makes you go Evil at some point.

And that, I chalk up to a writing issue. Specifically, the writers functionally equating Sith with Evil, despite the fact that nothing about their code is inherently Evil.

Now, different depictions have shown that not all Jedi are Good. Some over-emphasize Law to the point of stagnation and amorality. Some, however, are Good. What that says to me, however, is not "Jedi are Good," but "Jedi are Lawful, and some Jedi are Good." And if some Jedi are Good, that really doesn't do much to support a "Jedi = Good" hypothesis.

But the writers clearly wanted the Sith to be Evil. That's obvious. Despite the fact that there's nothing inherently Evil about the Sith code, the writers wanted to make them the bad guys. (As a fan of the Middle Path, this bothers me.) However, even taking into account this bias, there's no real support for it other than "because we said so, that's why." It's not that the Sith code encourages cruelty, slavery, brutality or heartlessness. It encourages freedom (Chaotic) and power (no charge). It's just that so many people take that, and take it in an Evil direction.

I'd argue that Jedi are LN with occasional LG leanings, and that Sith are CN with frequent CE leanings. But I see Sith Evil the same way I see Jedi Good - the Code encourages it, but doesn't mandate it.

Back to the OP, it boils down to how strong an homage you're making. "Guy with a brilliant energy weapon" could be accused of being Jedi-inspired, but absent more he really isn't. Guy with telekinesis, same thing. Guy with a glowing sword that makes touch attacks, uses telekinesis and telepathy, wears a robe, dipped Monk for Wis-to-AC, and spouts homilies about all life being spiritually connected? That's a freaking Jedi and everyone can see it. It's not a question of "How can I build this and not have people notice," it's a question of "How far am I willing to go with the parallel?" Because the further you go, the more obvious the comparison.

So that's my question. How far?

[Grod_The_Giant]

Unchained Monk looks about right. Jedi fluff and Monk fluff always seemed to mesh well, and the revamped class looks pretty stylish.

[kalasulmar]

Magus with a custom spell list would probably be the easiest, if DM approval is easy to get.

[zergling.exe]

Good stuff

As always Red Fel knows evil.

On a tangent, it scares me that our resident master of the dark corners of the heart and mind likes the Middle Path. I shudder to imagine the horrors unleashed if one were to fall from such a lofty goal.

[Aleolus]

I think I can offer a solution, at least in part, to the whole "jedi=good, sith=evil" issue being talked about.

The Sith code is all about gaining power.
Power tends to corrupt people (so much so I actually have been wanting to houserule that characters need to roll will saves as they go up in levels against alignment shifts)
Therefore, since power corrupts, and the Sith are about acquiring power, nearly all sith will fall into evil. Though this interpretation does leave the door open for someone to play a non-evil sith character...

[MyrPsychologist]

I feel like the most iconic Jedi are going to be some gish build. I feel like the knee-jerk reaction is to jump on the magus because of the blade abilities but I feel like you're not locked into this if you don't want to. Jedi aren't dependent on their swords and can use other weapons if you so desire. So any real gish will work and you should select them based on your personal tastes. Personally, i'd probably lean towards an oracle or sorcerer but that is my personal preference.

However. If you want to build a Jedi there are a lot of different ways and different styles of Jedi that you can explore if you are so inclined.


There are examples of some Jedi following the "way of the gun" and the 3rd party classes of Marksmen, Cryptic (following the Grammaton archetype) would fit really well into this mindset. You could even use some of the archetypes for the traditional classes that give access to guns and gun abilities to replicate this approach.

You could explore the concept of unarmed Jedi and play a monk or other such unarmed builds. You don't even NEED to pick up magic if your goal is to play an order bound expert fighter (kind of like a Jedi Sentinel).

I feel the need to make special mention of the alchemist class. Sith alchemy is a thing in the star wars universe and these individuals pursued strange manipulations of themselves and others. I feel like this has a lot of potential for interesting developments and characters if you are inclined to follow the dark side.

Also, you can super reflavor any of the Path of War classes as a jedi and just pursue the ones that you are most interested in.



Second question:

I would probably place the Jedi code as ranging from LN to NG. It depends on the time period you're coming from and your own personal view of the organizations you work with and for. It would also depend on who you are and what you do within the order. A sentinel that is true to the code would behave very differently than a scholar and researcher.

The same variance is going to be seen in the Sith code as well. I would place it anywhere from LN, LE, NE, or even CE depending on the type of sith you are and when you were trained in the timeline. If it's at a time when there actually is a "sith academy" and rigid hierarchy it would probably lean more towards the lawful side and depending on the perception of betrayal, lies, and murder will dictate whether it is evil or neutral. But i would argue that the original sith, the guys that just thought emotion was something to be integrated into the order and utilized instead of feared, would be LN but walk a VERY difficult path.

[Sacrieur]

I think this boils down to a writing issue.

The language and doctrine of both groups seems to be fairly strong. The classical Jedi texts are strongly Lawful, Sith are strongly Chaotic, and newer Jedi seem to lean Good. It doesn't sound like you're arguing that this isn't the case, but rather that the practical effect of being Sith is that, even if you only start off at Chaotic, the Dark Side makes you go Evil at some point.

I suppose it is true that while the Jedi are LG (Compassion is a highly regarded virtue), the Light Side of the force is purely a force of Good.



And that, I chalk up to a writing issue. Specifically, the writers functionally equating Sith with Evil, despite the fact that nothing about their code is inherently Evil.

While true, Darth Sidious and Darth Vader were both very Lawful Evil. So it's not like being a Sith equates to being chaotic.



Now, different depictions have shown that not all Jedi are Good. Some over-emphasize Law to the point of stagnation and amorality. Some, however, are Good. What that says to me, however, is not "Jedi are Good," but "Jedi are Lawful, and some Jedi are Good." And if some Jedi are Good, that really doesn't do much to support a "Jedi = Good" hypothesis.

Best to think of them from a Paladin like perspective, really. They do rely on the Light Side of the force.



But the writers clearly wanted the Sith to be Evil. That's obvious. Despite the fact that there's nothing inherently Evil about the Sith code, the writers wanted to make them the bad guys. (As a fan of the Middle Path, this bothers me.) However, even taking into account this bias, there's no real support for it other than "because we said so, that's why." It's not that the Sith code encourages cruelty, slavery, brutality or heartlessness. It encourages freedom (Chaotic) and power (no charge). It's just that so many people take that, and take it in an Evil direction.

It's true there's a debate about whether those who turn to the Dark Side are just susceptible to that sort of thinking or whether the Dark Side itself causes it, or maybe a combination of the two. IIRC in Jedi history the two sides were one in the same, until war broke out and the Order fractured over the use of the Dark Side. But there certainly are Middle Path force using traditions.



Back to the OP, it boils down to how strong an homage you're making. "Guy with a brilliant energy weapon" could be accused of being Jedi-inspired, but absent more he really isn't. Guy with telekinesis, same thing. Guy with a glowing sword that makes touch attacks, uses telekinesis and telepathy, wears a robe, dipped Monk for Wis-to-AC, and spouts homilies about all life being spiritually connected? That's a freaking Jedi and everyone can see it. It's not a question of "How can I build this and not have people notice," it's a question of "How far am I willing to go with the parallel?" Because the further you go, the more obvious the comparison.

So that's my question. How far?

I definitely agree that more clarification is needed. For instance we need to know the kind of Jedi he's making. Not all Jedi are proficient in all forms of Force powers. Some are weak at telekinesis or mind-influencing but strong with blade skills, and of course the reverse is true.

---

This hasn't been suggested yet, but there's a few options here. The Stalker's Ki Pool and Stalker Arts are actually very Jedi like, if you can trade out one or two of the disciplines, depending on what you can get away with. Things like Combat Precognition, Murderous Insight, Alacrity, and Mind Bending have Jedi written all over the. You can take it one step further by selecting a Rogue Talent to select Ninja Tricks. From there you can get Acrobatic Master, Feather Fall, and High Jumper.

Selection of disciplines is really a matter of your lightsaber form.

Also if you choose to go psionic, prestige in Awakened Blade as soon as you can with Sleeping Goddess.

[Spore]

Back to the OP, it boils down to how strong an homage you're making. "Guy with a brilliant energy weapon" could be accused of being Jedi-inspired, but absent more he really isn't.[...]

So that's my question. How far?

I am basically asking how a character or organization with the (old) Jedi Code would be implemented in a world where the "Force" is no power but believing in a concept, having special blood or arcane studies gives you spells or SLAs.

The Jedi mindset of tranquility and serene thought should just be reflected by the choice of spells, class or feats. I could see myself playing a class with a Wis penalty (and investing in high Wis) just to reflect how calming the training could be. Something like a towering Orc or a ferocious Catfolk who is calm to the point where their silence and disconnectness to emotion feels like they don't care.

Concepts:
Jedi Knight with Saber Throw and Knowledge as the ultimate goal: Champion of the Faith Warpriest (Lawful or Good; LN, Magic and Knowledge blessings)
Sith "Assassin": Arcane Bloodrager
Jedi Sentinel: Destined Bloodrager (refluff the "rage" as a higher state of concentration)
some variation on a Cleric is also very possible
Monk with varying "Force" powers.
Inquisitor with a wide variety of domainlike Inquisitions.

I very much like the idea of a character with a heavy wisdom focus. I also like Charisma gishes but I feel they're more suited for a formal approach to the organization (they get their powers from emotion and blood and would struggle to keep within the light side guidelines).

[Honest Tiefling]

I honestly would not be surprised if the Light side of the Force is good, and the Dark side is Evil, but the Jedi/Sith have interpreted them and made orders that lie more upon the Lawful/Chaotic side of things, and enforce it thanks to the orders and customs they have. But I'm not a big EU fan, honestly. I think I do have problems with a force of good saying it is totes okay to rip small children from their families, however and forcing them into a life of celibacy. Unless this force of good allows evil to prevail because good is stupid. (Given that they let Jar-Jar be on the senate and hang around at all, this is a possibility.)

If you want your party not to notice, drop or change unimportant details. I am not getting the vibe that you care for the vows of celibacy and no love business, so chuck that into the trash. Wear some blue, make that the color for your new order. People come to the order, they are not found and dragged back. Make it so it was matriarchal in the past. Use an ax or scimitar. Make up some rituals for the order and have the character perform them for flavor.

[Mehangel]

You know after re-reading the Sith and Jedi Codes, I cannot help but feel that I am surprised that more Jedi dont tend to become sociopaths, as opposed to Sith who seem to be real-world empathic individuals. I then was forwarded this page (http://screenrant.com/star-wars-villains-jedi-sith-history/) and this page (http://www.cracked.com/article_22320_6-weird-ways-star-wars-had-us-rooting-psychopaths.html) from an acquaintance, which just goes further to confirm this belief.

[jesterjeff]

My suggestion is a blade adept arcanist with a level in swashbuckler (inspired blade) and then finish with eldritch knight.
Rapier for the black blade, but you gain spells trike so just enjoy the touch spells.

[Spore]

I am not getting the vibe that you care for the vows of celibacy and no love business

I do not want to insist on a vow for that order. But knowing my entirely vile entity of an DM he will target any acquaintances, love interests and family my character has to invoke emotion. I would even write a background that pushes my character towards a calm and serene mind because he can't take the actions of his loved ones otherwise - without resorting to violence and manslaughter. Maybe she was held back from killing her unfaithful husband by a member of the order, maybe the hero was a drunk wreck of a purposeless ex soldier before he found his new purpose in following the cult and defending the weak.

[Cyrocloud]

I think your best bet is probably with psychic magic from Occult adventures, if DSP isn't allowed. Personally I'd go either Mindblade Magus (a more defensive magus who uses psychic spells (no somantic or verbal components, intimidate can really mess up your ability to cast/focus) and makes their own lightsabers on demand), Battle Host Occultist (Maybe regular, but I like this one better, you will have an indestructible sword, that you use for your spells, probably focusesing on Illusion (jedi mind tricks), Transmutation (Using the force to fortify oneself), divination and abjuration.), or a Psychic Investigator (an investegator so a skilled diplomat, with decent martial skill and some decent casting abilities).

[Strigon]

You know after re-reading the Sith and Jedi Codes, I cannot help but feel that I am surprised that more Jedi dont tend to become sociopaths, as opposed to Sith who seem to be real-world empathic individuals. I then was forwarded this page (http://screenrant.com/star-wars-villains-jedi-sith-history/) and this page (http://www.cracked.com/article_22320_6-weird-ways-star-wars-had-us-rooting-psychopaths.html) from an acquaintance, which just goes further to confirm this belief.

That first one can be argued with, but the second is flat-out wrong in quite a number of points.
In essence, the Jedi are a lot like highly organized Paladins, and while there are quite a few arguments over the Paladin's Code here, I don't see anyone arguing that Paladins aren't actually Good.

[NightbringerGGZ]

So let me toss out a few ideas and see if any of them work for you.

1) Races
For a Strength build, go with a male Lashunta. You get +Str and +Int, Telepathy within 30 feet, Daze and Mage Hand at will and Detect Thoughts 1/day.

For a Dex build Elf is one of my favorite options due to the good racial weapons and good casting bonuses. But there are a ton of +Dex races, so your casting class will affect this a ton.

2) Magus (Bladebound, Kensai)
This build gives you a super special weapon via Black Blade, which you can use a couple times per day as a pure energy weapon. You are completely unarmored but will have good defenses after a few levels. You get very good offensive magic, and some other options. This is more of a Jedi Guardian or Sith build. Note, I have played this build with a Strength/Int focus and the character was a ton of fun. I dealt a ton of damage, even without using Shocking Grasp and was able to spend my cash on Pearls of Power, giving me a long battery life.

3) Investigator (Psychic Detective)
You don't get a fancy blade, but the class emulates most of the other aspects of a Jedi. Psychic magic is closer to Force powers, and the balance of Thought and Emotion components could make for some fun role playing. The spell list gives you a good mix mental manipulation, telekinetic abilities and defensive abilities. You'll also have a ton of skill points and get all the Investigator's power behind skill usage. Toss on Focused Combat and you'll do decent damage. This makes for a good Jedi Sentinal or Jedi Counselor.

4) Kineticist
So, while this is a lower tier class, you do get a lot of what you'll want in a pretty easy to use package. Start off with Kinetic Blade and manifest it as a lightsaber. You'll want to mix in or even start off with Aether to get your telekinetic powers. These abilities let you emulate options like Force Push/Pull and all the attacks that Jedi can make by throwing objects around. Ranged attacks with energy can be flavored as the move where a Jedi throws his lightsaber then pulls it back. You even get some limited healing options.

5) Spiritualist (Ectoplasmacist)
Ok, this one is a little odd but here my out. You're filled with the power of an unknown Force (or ghost in this case). At level 1 you can manifest a weapon (either 2 light weapons, a one handed weapon or a 2 handed weapon) at will. As you level the weapon gets automatic enhancements bonuses, extended reach that doesn't prevent attacking adjacent targets (throwing your saber), and even get a bit of an emotional component thrown in.

At level 3 you basically get Spell Combat & Spell Strike, but by another name and without any Magus class features. Still, this is a very useful ability. The spell list provided is also great, giving you Cure spells, some offensive spells and some psychic themed spells. With very minimal refluff this build is almost exactly a Jedi.

6) Warpriest
So your Deity and Blessings will affect this build a lot, but you get scaling weapon damage, limited usage bonuses to your weapon and any of the alignment blessings even make your weapon take on a glowing color. Good healing potential, great buffing potential and a good spell list make this class a solid choice. It's also a great way to mask your concept form other players.

[Andreaz]

Mighty fine homebrew. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?169532-Esper-Knight-Essentia-meets-The-Force)

[stack]

If sphere casting was on the table I would suggest a symbiat with stats switched from intelligence to wisdom. Casting stat to AC when not wearing armor, telekinesis, and mind abilities built in - a good start. Otherwise, psychic warrior seems like a good place to start, but I don't really have anything to add to previous suggestions. Gifted Blade soulknife?

[Baroncognito]

I like Bard.

I'd probably go with an Archaeologist bard, because rogue talent would let you pick up a Ki pool and a few Ninja abilities that would thematically fit.

That and Bard spells are much closer to Jedi mind tricks. At first level you can have Mage Hand, Unwitting Ally, Call Weapon, and Charm Person.

[Vogie]

Actually an Oracle with the Ancestor Mystery would give you most of what you're looking for, and explain how your weapon disappears from your hand (An elegant weapon, from a more civilized age). You can use Spiritual weapon rather than throwing your saber, gain telekinesis & unseen servant off the base, and Spirit Shield for a defensive move.

Otherwise, if you choose a martial class, you'll want to dip into at least a level or two of Wizard/Sorcerer/Bard to get the requisite flavor abilities. Most of them are level 0 or 1, but you could also make good arguments to go higher.

The best part about the Jedi is they have a specific attitude and outlook that can be easily played by just about any class or race. Unless you start speaking like Yoda, it won't be easily identifiable.



The thing with brilliant energy is that it doesn't hit undead, constructs or, most importantly, objects. Adamantine would be a better fit for cutting ability. Or maybe soulknife? Homebrew? I dunno. Also brilliant energy is a bit obvious to others. Maybe make your weapon glow, which is free on any magic weapon, and call it a day.

I don't think there's any one weapon that would really fit. It will look like a blend of a Brilliant Energy Katana blended with a Spectral Knife (dagger? I can't rememeber). It will act more like a Flaming Force sword. You could also invest in a Scabbard of Many Blades and just have a collection of semi-lightsaberish swords, for specific instances. One brilliant energy, one flaming, one returning, one double bladed polearm, et cetera

Alternatively, one of the tropes in the SW universe is the creation of one's own lightsaber. If you work with the DM, that could be a subarc is the creation of said weapon (if you don't go the Ancestral Weapon route above, of course)

[Ninjaxenomorph]

I had an idea; a Mindblade magus and give the character a sort of code, and focus on battlefield control rather than blasting. Different fighting styles are built into the archetype (or at least given considerations), you are a psychic caster, and you are regularly poaching spells from the Psychic list. Only light armor (but you aren't limited to it like arcane gishes are), and you summon a glowing blade. Or multiple. Take the arcana to get Ghost Touch and Brilliant Energy on your list and there you go! Since you won't be focused on crit-fishing you could go for more iconic weapons to make, depending on what you want/the situation at hand)

Your spell load out can be stuff like thunderstomp, bladed dash, jump, personal buff spells and other non-flashy ones that could be seen as similar to force powers. Pick up some divination from the Psychi list and you're good to go!

[Aletheides]

I'm not sure how useful this will be to the OP's number-crunching, but if I were to put the Force (and its users) into a 3.5/PF context, I'd consider making it a divine caster (cleric or inquisitor), and treat the Force as two linked, but separate deities.

Maybe something like this:

DEITY: The Force (Light side)
ALIGNMENT: Neutral Good - Since the Jedi pursue peace, harmony and ideally, justice... This by definition tends to favor good over evil. This also sets a precedent for most of the Jedi in canon, both the strong-society types and independent do-gooders. Also some room for a true neutral "Gray Jedi" (though I hate the concept personally.)
DOMAINS: Community, Good, Knowledge, Luck, Protection
Since Jedi tend to use their abilities indirectly in a fight, most domain abilities focus on inspiring others, fighting defensively, and self-enhancement. You can't blow up the Death Star with Force Lightning, but who needs a targeting computer when you have True Strike? :smallbiggrin:

DEITY: Dark Side of the Force
ALIGNMENT: Neutral Evil - As above, plenty of room for most flavors of Sith/Dark side nastiness, though I imagine many Sith would default to NE...Perfectly fine with using either law or chaos as a means to an end, but not devoted to either.
DOMAINS: Charm, Evil, Liberation/Revolution subdomain, Trickery, Force Lightning (Fire domain switched to Electricity)
Where the light side emphasizes harmony and knowledge, the dark side emphasizes empowering the self and dominating others, be it physically or spiritually.

There would have to be some wrangling of codes of conduct, though one could factor in "falling to the dark side" as opposed to atoning in the usual manner.