Pathfinder - Gunslinger vs Musket Master - Can you combinen them?

[Greenfeuer]

Well as the title says, what are the difference in advantages and disadvantages between the two. I use a musket atm, on my dwarf character. But I am not sure I ready to give up on the gunslingers many different firearm types, cause I like some variation. But is it very bad not to go musket master, if my main is musket?

And is it even possiable to combine the two? Level 5 here, though of three levels in musket master then gunslinger 2 levels. Is it any good? :)

[Fable]

You can't combine the two because they both replace or modify the same ability ( gun training at level 5 ). If you want to switch between weapon types I would suggest against taking either and going vanilla slinger.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Assuming you mean the Musket Master archetype? No, you can't multiclass between Gunslinger and Gunslinger (Musket Master). A Musket Master is a Gunslinger, just with a slightly different set of class features.

If you want to use a musket, you'll really want the Archetype. Rapid Reload at first level is a godsent for gunslinger, Fast Musket at third is super-important if you want to actually attack regularly, and Musket Training is actually more versatile than Gun training, since it works for all two-handed firearms. You can get pistols back with either a feat or-- and this would be my choice-- a level in Swashbuckler with the Picaroon archetype, which also nails you a bit of extra Grit.

[Greenfeuer]

Assuming you mean the Musket Master archetype? No, you can't multiclass between Gunslinger and Gunslinger (Musket Master). A Musket Master is a Gunslinger, just with a slightly different set of class features.

If you want to use a musket, you'll really want the Archetype. Rapid Reload at first level is a godsent for gunslinger, Fast Musket at third is super-important if you want to actually attack regularly, and Musket Training is actually more versatile than Gun training, since it works for all two-handed firearms. You can get pistols back with either a feat or-- and this would be my choice-- a level in Swashbuckler with the Picaroon archetype, which also nails you a bit of extra Grit.


I see, I will really miss being able to use a pistol tho, along with uility shot. Is it really that bad to go gunslinger vanilia?


And is it worth for a Musket Master to take one handed firearms aswell as a feat? I like to be able to use pistol/one handed firearms for backup, along with roleplay flavor. And it would be nice to get that dex + damge bonus on pistols too.

[Grod_The_Giant]

I see, I will really miss being able to use a pistol tho, along with uility shot. Is it really that bad to go gunslinger vanilia?


And is it worth for a Musket Master to take one handed firearms aswell as a feat? I like to be able to use pistol/one handed firearms for backup, along with roleplay flavor. And it would be nice to get that dex + damge bonus on pistols too.
If you want to use Muskets, as I said, the Musket Master's ability is incredibly valuable-- it brings the reload time all the way down to a move action, or a free action with alchemical cartridges. Without it, you'll have no way to make full attacks with your main weapon, which would be very sad. It's probably not worth a feat to add in pistols, but it won't hurt you too badly-- especially since Musket Master gives you an otherwise-necessary feat for free. Dex to Damage for them as well would be hard, though... maybe take a three level dip in Fighter (Trench Fighter)? The feats would be useful as well. In fact, if you go Gunslinger (Musket Master) 5/Swashbuckler (Picaroon) 1/Fighter (Trench Fighter) 3 you can potentially get Dex to damage with two-handed firearms, pistols, and light melee weapons.

[Greenfeuer]

If you want to use Muskets, as I said, the Musket Master's ability is incredibly valuable-- it brings the reload time all the way down to a move action, or a free action with alchemical cartridges. Without it, you'll have no way to make full attacks with your main weapon, which would be very sad. It's probably not worth a feat to add in pistols, but it won't hurt you too badly-- especially since Musket Master gives you an otherwise-necessary feat for free. Dex to Damage for them as well would be hard, though... maybe take a three level dip in Fighter (Trench Fighter)? The feats would be useful as well. In fact, if you go Gunslinger (Musket Master) 5/Swashbuckler (Picaroon) 1/Fighter (Trench Fighter) 3 you can potentially get Dex to damage with two-handed firearms, pistols, and light melee weapons.


Is Gunslinger vanilla viable at all then? If I go musket master I am really thinking of still getting the feat one handed firearms, for backup and flavor. Even though I can't add dex damge to them, it would be great to have for backup. Again roleplay flavor too, makes good sense for a marksman with rifles to have a backup pistol :)

[Grod_The_Giant]

Is Gunslinger vanilla viable at all then? If I go musket master I am really thinking of still getting the feat one handed firearms, for backup and flavor. Even though I can't add dex damge to them, it would be great to have for backup. Again roleplay flavor too, makes good sense for a marksman with rifles to have a backup pistol :)
Oh, for sure. It's just... harder to use a musket as your main weapon, since you'll get, at best, move action reloads (Full round -> standard -> move). Unless Advanced Firearms are on the table; a rifle can be reloaded as a free action with Rapid Reload or alchemical cartridges, in which case you don't need the musket master ability at all.

[Greenfeuer]

I see, I wondered about this too.



Instead of proficiency with all firearms, a musket master only gains proficiency with two-handed firearms. She must take the Exotic Weapon Proficiency (firearm) feat to gain proficiency with one-handed firearms and firearm siege engines.Instead of proficiency with all firearms, a musket master only gains proficiency with two-handed firearms. She must take the Exotic Weapon Proficiency (firearm) feat to gain proficiency with one-handed firearms and firearm siege engines. -

Does this mean I need two or a single feat to get both one handed firearms and siege engines?

[Grod_The_Giant]

I think the feat applies to all firearms-- it's not EWP (One-handed firearms), after all.

[Greenfeuer]

http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2sya9?Pathfinder-Gunslinger-vs-Musket-Master#12 - Seemse suggested otherwise here. I hope its firearms all really.

[Greenfeuer]

Firearm Proficiency: The Exotic Weapon Proficiency (firearms) feat allows you to use all firearms without penalty. A nonproficient character takes the standard –4 penalty on attack rolls with firearms, and a nonproficient character who loads a firearm increases all misfire values by 4 for the shots he loads.

Even though the Exotic Weapon Proficiency (firearms) feat grants you proficiency with all firearms, anytime you take a feat that modifies a single type of weapon (such as Weapon Focus or Rapid Reload), you must still pick one specific type of firearm (such as musket, axe musket, blunderbuss, pistol, or double pistol) for that feat to affect.

All firearms are part of the same weapon group for the purposes of the fighter's weapon training class feature.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Proficiency: Siege engines are exotic weapons. A creature with the Siege Engineer feat is proficient with all siege engines, including siege firearms. A creature that is proficient in firearms is also proficient in siege firearms, but not other siege engines.
EWP (Firearms) gets you all firearms, which includes "siege firearms."

[Greenfeuer]

EWP (Firearms) gets you all firearms, which includes "siege firearms."

Perfect! I think I go Musket Master then :)