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View Full Version : Help needed to solve hard problem (What would you do?)



Zid
2007-05-15, 03:45 PM
I play as a character in a PBEM campaing that has been going on for five years. We do not use D20-system, but another generic RPG system tweeked by our GM. The following problem has arisen:

For a long time our characters have been investigating an ancient dungeon complex situation in a large forest. It was supposed to be abandoned, but was full of goblins. We convinced the king of the human realm to send troops to the complex and drive out the goblins. He agreed, but only because the goblins were destoying the trade through a nearby river that served as an important trade route. A small elven enclave is nearby, and they are hard pressed by the goblins. This is the scenario:

1 PC (a decent dwarf warrior) is with the human troops. They have taken a small nearby pallisaded settlement and pushed inward into the forest and further into the complex. The complex has one large entrance and one small hidden (that we know of. I do not belive any other exit exsists.) The large entrance leeds into a room with a small bridge across. Further back is a very large (~150 feet diameter) room with three exits. The troops have pushed into this room, and attacked the goblins in a massive battle. More than 100 goblins died, but many human troops were wounded or killed. We now hold this great hall. From it, a further two exits:

A) A exit leading to minor halls and corridors. This also lead to the hidden entrance.

B) Leads further up, to the top of the rock. If you could get further in here, you could use archers on some of the goblins in A), as there are a few overhead passages. This only leads to the top of the rock. The enemy has at least one arship, but it hasnībeen seen for a long time. So itīs basically a dead end.

These are the troops:

1 decent PC dwarf warrior

50 human spearmen. Well trained and good discipline

4 other dwarfs. They are elite warriors, but only observers sent from the dwarf king to investigate the threat. However, they are dwarfs, and will happily fight.

10 elven archers sent from the elven enclave. They will not enter the dungeon complex, under orders from their elven princess. Excellent stealth and scouts.

Perhaps 20-30 sailors, undisciplined, sent from a noble familiy as a token force.

As for the enemy:

In entrance A

we have an unknown number of goblins, at least 50 still. They are rabble, and die very fast on an open battlefield against the humant troops. They are good archers, and we have very few archers of our own. They are dependent upon leadership not to break in battle.

About 20 goblin guard. They are more skilled, but not equal to a human spearman.

A handful of orcs, some of them carry a small ballista that have killed many of our troops.

The evil leader, a half-orc half-ogre (actually, Iīm not sure, but thatīs my guess). Skilled fighter and leader.

An unknown champoin of evil. He came and broke the guard we had placed on the small entrance. He had a retinue of ten orcs, but basically killed about five humans by himself while taking very little damage. Seems like a very though opponent.


In entrance B) we have about 40 orcs warriors, that we did not think were there. They seem to lack ordered leadership, but are though warriors, and probably about equal to a human soldier.


******

The humans hold the large hall, thereby separating the two different groups of enemies. A small barricade has been built to bar off exit A).

Can this battle be won? How would you act? I can supply you with any other tactical information that you need and I know of as a PC. There must be thousands of hours of gaming experience out there. Someone of you must have a good idea.

PS. This is not a superhero PBEM. The PC cant solo the 40 orcs by himself.

/Cd

DreamOfTheRood
2007-05-15, 03:51 PM
Do you have any magic-users at all?

Are the orcs enemies of the goblins?

EagleWiz
2007-05-15, 04:02 PM
Well you need to

#1: Kill the BBEG (s)
#2: Get the balista. It seems like if you could destroy it or better yet take over it that would help

A handfull of orcs guarding the balista is just asking for you (or your troops to take controll of it)

Now what i would do.

#1: Send a few humans to attack the Evil Leader and Champion. Yes they will die but at least you will know how powerfull the leader is.

#2: Use Elf squad to assanate the biggest threat (Whoever wipes out say 5 humans first)

#3: Send the Dwarves and some humans against big evil guy #2

#4: Have the rest attack the orcs

The goblins should flee. Maby send the saliors to distract goblins.

Zid
2007-05-15, 04:04 PM
Do you have any magic-users at all?

Are the orcs enemies of the goblins?

No magic users (though I play one, my PC is a weeks journey from the action) A few druids (skilled healers, but not by magic) sent from the elves.

As far as I know, the goblins and orcs get along well and fight beside each other. I do think that the orcs consider themselves superior though.

Zid
2007-05-15, 04:07 PM
Well you need to

#1: Kill the BBEG (s)
#2: Get the balista. It seems like if you could destroy it or better yet take over it that would help

A handfull of orcs guarding the balista is just asking for you (or your troops to take controll of it)


The orcs are with the main goblin troop in A). The leader (his name is Budo) is here as well. How do you suggest we kill them? A headon charge MIGHT work, but the evil champion might break us.

EagleWiz
2007-05-15, 04:08 PM
Look at my poast above.

Sailors may be good for a distraction.

EagleWiz
2007-05-15, 04:12 PM
A head on charge NEVER works. And the Evil Champion sounds like either:

1. A magic user
2. A skilled warrior
3. A powerfull creature

Jacob Orlove
2007-05-15, 04:21 PM
You might want to consider your non-combat options here. Specifically, I'm thinking of either finding a way to burn (or just smoke) them out, or else barricade them in and lay siege to the place (attempting to run them out of water and/or food).

You currently have them split, though, which seems like a strong advantage. What you might consider doing is barricading in the orcs (to be starved out much later), and then sending some of your troops out to attack the goblins and such in A from both sides. It sounds like they're the major threat (or at least, their leadership is), and if you can take them out, the orcs won't be much of a threat. The big danger seems to be that the leaders could united your opposing forces, which would leave you severely outnumbered and outclassed.

Neon Knight
2007-05-15, 04:24 PM
My view:

I'd say fall back. You're outnumbered, out gunned, and outflanked. Press A and B will slam into your rear. Assault B and A will take the opportunity to strike. This is not a divide and conquer situation.

Fall back to the entrance and create a bottleneck there. After you cross, destroy the bridge behind you, you can always rebuild it later. That way if they come at you, they can't use their superior numbers immediately. Send the elves to watch the secret entrance; you may wish to lay an ambush there.

As tempting as it may be, avoid battle. Powerful leaders, superior numbers; I don't care how good the human troops are, unless this is 300 (the movie) they are going to be overrun by superior numbers, especially if they have to fight in two directions.

Send a runner for reinforcements; you'll want heavy infantry to clear this place out. Spears are good and all, but I believe some dismounted knights would fit the storming job much better. Or any equivalent sword infantry.

Meschaelene
2007-05-15, 04:52 PM
Kill the elves. Then leave.


OK -- if you have the enemy split, then kill the less-powerful half while holding off the other.

If you are hard-pressed, retreat out the entrance (or across the bridge), and ambush when they follow.

Neon Knight
2007-05-15, 05:01 PM
Let me repeat my warning: Do not engage unless you can be absolutely sure you will be fighting only one force at a time. If you ignore this, you will get flanked, and fighting in two directions is a bad thing for any infantry unit. It is even worse for spear men, who need to present a unified front to the enemy.

goat
2007-05-15, 05:27 PM
Fall back, trash the bridge. Maybe set a big fire at entrance B first to annoy the Orcs (Some of those present are dwarves after all).

Leave some people to observe the now trashed bridge/kill anyone who tries to jump the gap. Guard the "hidden" entrance with the elves and spearmen. The only ways out now from your desciption are the roof and this hidden door.

The spearmen and elf archers should be able to slaughter any normal troops bottlenecking out of the small door, and if a BBEG tries to come through, your PC and dwarf "observers" can haul him off for a "chat".

Leave spot guards (probably the sailors) to watch your flanks/back. There might be more than one door. Send the rest for supplies, oil, explosives and building materials. If they get back before a counter attack, seal them inside with a few large lit fires to smoke them out. Have the elves shoot them when they come out of the top.

Fax Celestis
2007-05-15, 06:00 PM
Start a cave-in, with explosives or even simple damage to support structures. Couple this with destroying and guarding the exits to the cave, including the bridge.

Aramil Liadon
2007-05-15, 07:32 PM
Advice part 1: Give us a map! Any map, as long as I can see it!

Part 2: If I understood the description correctly, then I too recommend the falling of back, followed by blockading the larger entrance (fallen trees, stone walls, etc) and lying in ambush at the other, possibly combined with smoking them out or flaming logs, rolling boulders, diverted lakes, caveins, ... I'm just throwing out ideas here. Starve them out, and get reinforcements.

Part 3: Again, if I understand correctly, then taking (b) would give you a strong defensive position, coupled with eliminating the smaller of the two forces? You could try that, preferably with the aid of smoke, fire, or something else that avoids losses on your part. Then blockade well (think The Hobbit) and STAY AWAY FROM THAT BALLISTA! Continue throwing rocks over the blockade, combined with alchemist's fire if you have it, to keep their heads down while you find a way to eliminate the threat. Raids; sudden holes in the blockade that rain arrows, then close; rolling boulders; it's all good. If you can get your own ballista, do so.

Zid
2007-05-17, 08:49 AM
Thanks for all the advice. I think that the best way of handling this will be trying to block the smaller exit (there is a nearby small river that maybe could be diverted, the exit is a hole int the ground). Then weīll blockade BOTH exits in the great hall and try to starve them out, or force them to attack into a well-defended obstacle. Thanks for all the helpful advice.

TranquilRage
2007-05-18, 08:11 AM
Use the expertise of the dwarves to safely collapse entrance B.

Gather wood for a fire in the main chamber, lots of it. Set the blaze and then retreat collapsing the entrance to that main hall. Send the elves out to scout for signs of escaping smoke or bad guys. They can then converge on the area with the rest of your troops, providing overwhelming power at the point of exit. This would use your spearmen effectively and allow you to utilise the elves for ranged support. The sailors can be used as scouts to keep an eye out for Orcs escaping from the roof. However since you didn't list this as a possible entry point I would imagine the climb down would be a tough and slow one.

Remember, the total power of each force never matters. Its the power focused at the point of engagement. In an all out battle each engagement is generally personal, and the better equipped and trained troops win. In this example. ambushing the hidden entrance, you will have many spearmen vs one or two bad guys as they emerge from the exit.

The optimal positioning, I would imagine, is a double or triple layered semi circle around the hidden exit using all your troops. With the elves in elevated positions sniping and the druids providing area effect/denial spells and healing as required. The dwarves and PC can fill any breaches in the line. This however should allow at least a 3 to 1 odds for any individual fight. With no risk of being out flanked.

Also remember to position scouts at the main entrance in case anyone manages to shift two rock falls. And to stay out of direct line of sight up the hidden passage, in case you get a ballista round in the face.

###| |###
:smallannoyed: :smallannoyed: :smallbiggrin: :smallannoyed: :smallannoyed:
:smallannoyed: :smallannoyed: :smallannoyed: :smallannoyed: :smallannoyed:
:smallwink: :smallannoyed: :smallannoyed: :smallannoyed: :smallwink:

^^ Surrounded.

You could then pay the dwarves to restore the tunnels afterwards and turn it into a useful structure, maybe an Airship Depot, Trade station, Emergency Store, Embassy, whatever.

Relations FTW

TranquilRage
2007-05-18, 08:16 AM
Use the expertise of the dwarves to safely collapse entrance B.

Gather wood for a fire in the main chamber, lots of it. Set the blaze and then retreat collapsing the entrance to that main hall. Send the elves out to scout for signs of escaping smoke or bad guys. They can then converge on the area with the rest of your troops, providing overwhelming power at the point of exit. This would use your spearmen effectively and allow you to utilise the elves for ranged support. The sailors can be used as scouts to keep an eye out for Orcs escaping from the roof. However since you didn't list this as a possible entry point I would imagine the climb down would be a tough and slow one.

Remember, the total power of each force never matters. Its the power focused at the point of engagement. In an all out battle each engagement is generally personal, and the better equipped and trained troops win. In this example ambushing ,the hidden entrance, you will have many spearmen vs one or two bad guys as they emerge from the exit.

The optimal positioning, I would imagine, is a double or triple layered semi circle around the hidden exit using all your troops. With the elves in elevated positions sniping and the druids providing area effect/denial spells and healing as required. The dwarves and PC can fill any breaches in the line. This however should allow at least a 3 to 1 odds for any individual fight. With no risk of being out flanked.

Also remember to position scouts at the main entrance in case anyone manages to shift two rock falls. And to stay out of direct line of sight up the hidden passage, in case you get a ballista round in the face.

:smallannoyed: :smallannoyed: :smallbiggrin: :smallannoyed: :smallannoyed:
:smallannoyed: :smallannoyed: :smallannoyed: :smallannoyed: :smallannoyed:
:smallwink: :smallannoyed: :smallannoyed: :smallannoyed: :smallwink:

Telonius
2007-05-18, 10:22 AM
What other assets do you have at your disposal? Caltrops, traps, a wheelbarrow, a holocaust cloak?