Dungeons: the Dragoning Without the World of Darkness System

[JBPuffin]

Hi all. I flipped through Dungeons: the Dragoning today, both the 2 core and the Big Bunch of Brew, and while the idea is exactly what I've wanted in a tabletop RPG for who knows how long, using Exalted/Scion/Werewolf's mechanics as the baseline put me off (too elaborate for me). Is there a game like this that uses, I dunno, d20? I know there are a lot of generic/universal systems out there, but is there something that specifically glues a bunch of worlds together and puts some mechanics to it? Rifts comes to mind as an option, but I've been down that rabbithole already.

[Anonymouswizard]

Hi all. I flipped through Dungeons: the Dragoning today, both the 2 core and the Big Bunch of Brew, and while the idea is exactly what I've wanted in a tabletop RPG for who knows how long, using Exalted/Scion/Werewolf's mechanics as the baseline put me off (too elaborate for me). Is there a game like this that uses, I dunno, d20? I know there are a lot of generic/universal systems out there, but is there something that specifically glues a bunch of worlds together and puts some mechanics to it? Rifts comes to mind as an option, but I've been down that rabbithole already.

Ummm... the core of the World of Darkness system is no more complex than d20, and nWoD is actually simpler. In fact, I think d20, especially 3.X, is the most complex system I own. GURPS would beat it, but most of the complexity comes from the advantage and skill lists, and L5R has an annoying die system but past that is no more complex than GURPS past that.

I don't know which WoD system DtD uses, as it's been ages since I read it, but the steps for d20 are:

1) Select Stat/Skill/Derived attribute to roll.
2) Add in applicable modifiers.
3) Roll 1d20 and add your bonus.
4) Compare to DC.

Old World of Darkness:

1) Select appropriate Attribute and Ability.
2) Set difficulty and determine dice pool modifiers.
3) Roll your d10s and count those that beat the difficulty.
4) If you have at least one success you have passed most rolls, occasionally you might need as many as 3.

The Trinity/Exalt/Scion version is even easier, skipping step 2 unless you use a power and just requiring successes equal to your action's difficulty.

New World of Darkness:

1) Select appropriate Attribute+Attribute or Attribute+Skill combination.
2) Determine Dice Pool modifiers.
3) Roll that many d10s and count how many beat 8. Was it at least 1? You succeeded!

[JBPuffin]

It's not dice, it's character creation. Too many steps and not enough explanation from my perspective.

[Anonymouswizard]

:smallconfused:

WoD character creation (old):

1) pick character concept.
2) Add in supernatural template, pick splats (clan, tribe, tradition ect.)
3) Assign Attribute Points
4) Assign Ability Points.
5) Assign Background Points.
6) Assign supernatural powers points.
7) Assign other points (e.g. Virtues, Rage and Gnosis, etc.)
8) Spend Freebie Points.

new:

1) Pick character concept.
2) Assign Attribute Points.
3) Assign Skill Points and 3 specialties.
4) Add template and sub templates.
5) Assign Merit points.
6) calculate final statistics.

D20:

1) Roll and assign scores.
2) Pick Race.
3) Pick Class.
4) Spend Skill Points.
5) Pick Feats.
6) Buy Equipment.
7) Calculate final statistics.

WoD isn't that elaborate for character creation.

[JeenLeen]

It's not dice, it's character creation. Too many steps and not enough explanation from my perspective.

I see your point, particularly in the "not enough explanation" aspect. I find the rules in most White Wolf books to be disjointed and it can be confusing unless you already know the system very well (or have someone to walk you through it.)

No systems come to mind -- well, besides D&D most-any-edition, but I assume that's been ruled out since you are asking -- but perhaps you could find someone who knows Dungeon: the Dungeoning well and can walk you through character creation, if not in the real-world then here. If that's the main hang-up, it sounds like you'd enjoy the game once char-gen is done.
I know this isn't really answering your question, and I am sorry for that, but I hope it helps.

...if it really doesn't help, though, could you say that D&D isn't what you want? That might help me or others here think of a system that is d20 but has what you want, without also having what you don't want.

[Knaight]

There's always GURPS, but that's not exactly the system you pick when looking for simpler character creation. Other than that, there's going to be some amount of work going in regardless.

[JBPuffin]

Anonymous - I'll concede your point if you frame it like that :smallsigh:. How about instead of pointing out the invalidity of my argument, you give me a hand in resolving the issue, though?


There's always GURPS, but that's not exactly the system you pick when looking for simpler character creation. Other than that, there's going to be some amount of work going in regardless.

I've looked into GURPS for other reasons, definitely a bit much for me :smallbiggrin:. I can do point-buy t a degree. (ie. Mutants and Masterminds)


I see your point, particularly in the "not enough explanation" aspect. I find the rules in most White Wolf books to be disjointed and it can be confusing unless you already know the system very well (or have someone to walk you through it.)

No systems come to mind -- well, besides D&D most-any-edition, but I assume that's been ruled out since you are asking -- but perhaps you could find someone who knows Dungeon: the Dungeoning well and can walk you through character creation, if not in the real-world then here. If that's the main hang-up, it sounds like you'd enjoy the game once char-gen is done.
I know this isn't really answering your question, and I am sorry for that, but I hope it helps.

...if it really doesn't help, though, could you say that D&D isn't what you want? That might help me or others here think of a system that is d20 but has what you want, without also having what you don't want.

I can't say it isn't, but the question then becomes how to model EVERYTHING that D:tD entails (and beyond, as would be preferred). 3.5 with all the viable homebrew wouldn't be a terrible solution, but alternatives would be ideal.

[Loki_42]

I'm not one of those people who will run around recommending Fate for everything, because the system has its flaws, but honestly it sounds like what you might be looking for. It's super light and generic enough to model basically everything, and DtD is everything: the game. Aspects are also really good for doing the weird character concepts that are all over the place in DtD. It doesn't use d20, instead it uses some weird dice, but I think you'd like it. It's also pay what you want to check out. I'd recommend either the Fate Accelerated Edition build of it (pwyw), if you want super simple, or the Atomic Robo version (you have to pay for this one, sadly), if you want some more mechanical heft.

[Anonymouswizard]

I'm not one of those people who will run around recommending Fate for everything, because the system has its flaws, but honestly it sounds like what you might be looking for. It's super light and generic enough to model basically everything, and DtD is everything: the game. Aspects are also really good for doing the weird character concepts that are all over the place in DtD. It doesn't use d20, instead it uses some weird dice, but I think you'd like it. It's also pay what you want to check out. I'd recommend either the Fate Accelerated Edition build of it (pwyw), if you want super simple, or the Atomic Robo version (you have to pay for this one, sadly), if you want some more mechanical heft.

Yeah, Fate is great for anything, and to be fair the dice aren't as bad as the new Star Wars ones (the writers literally based the game on rolling 4(d3-2) and so you can use regular d6s if you don't want to shell out for Fate dice [although you should only really need a £13 pack of 12 for the entire table). Fate is so much 'Narrative: the Storytelling' that is will work great for DtD.

[Loki_42]

Yeah, Fate is great for anything, and to be fair the dice aren't as bad as the new Star Wars ones (the writers literally based the game on rolling 4(d3-2) and so you can use regular d6s if you don't want to shell out for Fate dice [although you should only really need a £13 pack of 12 for the entire table). Fate is so much 'Narrative: the Storytelling' that is will work great for DtD.

Oh, Fate's dice are no problem, they're just weird and I like to maybe warn people about them. None of my actual problems with the game have to do with the dice, and have much more to do with it encouraging different kinds of play than I like to run games for. I love it when I'm playing it, but it's a narrative focused game that mechanically rewards having a plan for the story and leading the players along, whereas I prefer a way more improvised and collaborative type of game.