Keeping The Excitement for Powerful Players

[Bobbyjackcorn]

Hey guys, I'm running a vampire spawn campaign for some friends, and I'm looking for some advice.
So, they're all vampire spawn as in the Monsters Manual with one level of a class each (technically two now, since they just levelled up). I'm trying to keep combat interesting for them, when they run into it (it's mostly a roleplay game) but they've each got a lot of health and fast healing, in addition to damage resistance to b.p.s, et cetera. First I threw a troll up against them, but the troll couldn't consistently deal enough damage, and wasn't really scary after a bit, just time consuming. Then, I ran them up against poltergeists; decent damage, the ability to throw people, and they're invisible, so they get advantage on the players while the players get disadvantage. However, the players mostly seemed bored during the poltergeist fight, one even got very angry at the consistent disadvantage, but they didn't really try too hard to remove the disadvantage/advantage leverage.
So, how do you guys think I can spice up combat for the guys as we continue forward? It doesn't happen a lot, but I want it to feel fun and challenging, not like a chore or an inevitability.

[Reosoul]

Lots of health, fast-healing, AND damage resistance?

I don't know. At this point the balance would be so out of whack you'd probably need to throw something that either negates/cancels their innate toughness, or just hits so hard it doesn't matter as much. Both probably won't seem very fun since one just negates the point of them being vampire spawn, the other gives them a sack of hit points they'll have to hit for a few hours to kill in most cases.

Good luck.

[Kane0]

I've found earth elementals and bulettes to be fun, simply tunneling to a good spot then bursting up to catch a victim then disappear again.

You'd probably be looking for more RP fights though, like a mob of scared and misinformed villagers, a small squad of zealous clerics/paladins or an entrepreneurial necromancer trying to control them. They don't need to be difficult or long, just more complex and entertaining than 'its a bad guy kill it'. Cutting out pointless fights i've found helps a lot unless you're specifically trying to reduce their resources for the day.

Alternatively adjust their stats a little, so for example they get 2 out of three: Resistance, Healing and high HP. I'd take out the high HP, just give them what theyd get for their class instead of adding the base spawn HP.

In any case you would definitely be looking at deadly fights for their CR in order to challenge them, their defenses are quite formiddable and part of the problem might be that they are damage sponges without much in the way of offensive capability yet, making them feel like their best tactic is to outlast the enemy. Which is the most boring route.

Edit: Other potentially interesting fights:
- Gargoyles hiding on a rocky slope, dropping stones on prey before closing to melee for the finish
- Goblin spearmen, archers and witch doctors riding ogres
- A green/black dragon and their tribe of kobold / lizardfolk underlings
- A rival vampire and their entourage
- An adventuring party with a vendetta against undead
- Hags and their charmed minions
- Gnomish / Dwarven Golems, with contingencies
- Mash one creature you like with another one for something unique. It worked for owlbears.

[manny2510]

Use adventurers, vampire hunters, baelnorns, custom monsters available online etc. The mindflayer Arcanist is pretty op.

[Kane0]

If you want to be really cruel, throw some intellect devourers at them. Things that don't target HP to secure kills will be nasty.

[Bobbyjackcorn]

I want to keep their abilities as they are, and I've got some plans for hunters in the somewhat near future. I suppose to make things interesting I'll want to use either residual damage (like how magmins light people on fire when they explode) or hard hitting, low hitpoint monsters. I'm just afraid of the old "oops I crit'd you with a monster that was already dealing a consistently large amount of damage to you, and now most of your health is gone, gg." But I suppose I shouldn't be afraid of that, if I throw powerful monsters at them in less numbers than they have people, they should be able to swap out while healing if they really need be.

[Bobbyjackcorn]

I've found earth elementals and bulettes to be fun, simply tunneling to a good spot then bursting up to catch a victim then disappear again.

You'd probably be looking for more RP fights though, like a mob of scared and misinformed villagers, a small squad of zealous clerics/paladins or an entrepreneurial necromancer trying to control them. They don't need to be difficult or long, just more complex and entertaining than 'its a bad guy kill it'. Cutting out pointless fights i've found helps a lot unless you're specifically trying to reduce their resources for the day.

Alternatively adjust their stats a little, so for example they get 2 out of three: Resistance, Healing and high HP. I'd take out the high HP, just give them what theyd get for their class instead of adding the base spawn HP.

In any case you would definitely be looking at deadly fights for their CR in order to challenge them, their defenses are quite formiddable and part of the problem might be that they are damage sponges without much in the way of offensive capability yet, making them feel like their best tactic is to outlast the enemy. Which is the most boring route.

Edit: Other potentially interesting fights:
- Gargoyles hiding on a rocky slope, dropping stones on prey before closing to melee for the finish
- Goblin spearmen, archers and witch doctors riding ogres
- A green/black dragon and their tribe of kobold / lizardfolk underlings
- A rival vampire and their entourage
- An adventuring party with a vendetta against undead
- Hags and their charmed minions
- Gnomish / Dwarven Golems, with contingencies
- Mash one creature you like with another one for something unique. It worked for owlbears.

Gargoyles might be a lot of fun, if done right, considering two are casters and two are melee.

[Kane0]

Hmm, seems like you're playing nice.
Assuming they're competent, the average party can consistently take on deadly rated encounters under reasonable conditions. And that's before you hand them a bunch more health, resistance and HP regen.
Don't be scared to drop one or two of them to 0, 5e is pretty forgiving in terms of downed PCs unless you decide to finish them with a multiattack to use up all their death saves.

[Bobbyjackcorn]

Hmm, seems like you're playing nice.
Assuming they're competent, the average party can consistently take on deadly rated encounters under reasonable conditions. And that's before you hand them a bunch more health, resistance and HP regen.
Don't be scared to drop one or two of them to 0, 5e is pretty forgiving in terms of downed PCs unless you decide to finish them with a multiattack to use up all their death saves.

Keep in mind, the Vampire Spawn is where the Hp, Regen, and DR are coming from. I think a Vampire Spawn is about as powerful as a fifth level character (challenges for them have been about that level) so I've been treating them as sixth level characters.
As for dropping to zero, I gotta be really careful with that. When vampire spawn drop to zero they die flat out, no saves.

[Kane0]

Keep in mind, the Vampire Spawn is where the Hp, Regen, and DR are coming from. I think a Vampire Spawn is about as powerful as a fifth level character (challenges for them have been about that level) so I've been treating them as sixth level characters.
As for dropping to zero, I gotta be really careful with that. When vampire spawn drop to zero they die flat out, no saves.

CR 5+ level seems a bit low actually. Remember the MM CRs are vs a party of 4, so CR +2 + class level seems a little more appropriate to me (just eyeballing it).
They're PCs, you can give them death saves. In return for that you can take off the gloves and really give them a wallop without feelign bad when they drop.
Also, are they taking the appropriate penalties from sunlight, holy water/radiant damage and running water? A lunchtime fight by a river could be very, very nasty for them.

[PoeticDwarf]

There is a reason the resistance against nonmagical piercing, bluedeoning and slashing doesn't come before level 17 for PCs, most monsters use natural weapons with those damage <---. So you can first search or homebrew monsters with other sorts or magical damage. Second, it are vampire spawns with levels so not level 5-7 but CR 5-7, a big difference because a level 7 character can't kill a CR 7 slaadi, even for a caster/paladin who goes nova it is too difficult. Go for a fight against a Roc outside and see if they can take more.